Dss16

[Scarlett]

And our bodies affect our actions.

 

You son clearly does not experience the same appetite cues as your step son does.

 

It is easy to not eat when your body is not screaming at you EAT! Eat! Eat! Every moment of the day

 

It sounds like neither you nor your son have experienced that.

 

 

Maybe.  I really have no way to compare my genetic cues to those of anyone else.  But what is the answer?

[eternalsummer]

I have not read the article.

For most people, calories in-calories out makes sense.  I mean, it makes sense for everyone, in that you can't gain weight from food you don't eat, but it works more or less the same way for most people, as their metabolisms work more or less the same way.

 

I think there are two factors at play, very generally speaking: 

 

1. For some people, their metabolisms are very slow.  So where you and I need say between 1400 and 1800 calories a day depending on how active we are or how tall we are, some people need more like 800.  (there are also people who need like 3000).  It is hard for them to eat only 800 calories and get the nutrients they need because food tastes good, and often the tastiest food is the highest calorie and least nutritious - this doesn't matter so much when you can eat 1500 calories because the occasional piece of bread or cookie or slice of bacon is no big deal, but it makes more of a dent when you can only eat 800.  So from people with slow metabolisms, CICO is still technically true, but they have to have a lot more self control than humans are really built to have.

 

2. For some people, certain foods are more addictive than for others.  So it's not so much that a skinny person is doing a really good job resisting eating too many cookies - they just don't want the cookies as badly as the fat person wants the cookies.  Again, to maintain a healthy weight we're asking the fat person to have more self control than is average to humans and, (obviously I guess), more self control than they have had in the past.

 

 

So yes, your actions affect your outcomes - but getting to a place where you can do the correct actions with regards to food and exercise is harder for some people than for other people.  

 

Similarly, I take my lack of alcohol addiction for granted - for me it is so easy to not drink a beer, or if I do drink a beer, to only drink however many I've planned to drink.  I can have a six pack of beer in the fridge for a month (even when I'm not pregnant, hah) or a bottle of wine in the cupboard for a year.  An alcoholic, or even someone who is not alcoholic but verges on it, will just drink it.  

 

I am this way with caffeine - I can't resist it.  If there is tea in the house, or coffee, or soda, I will drink it when I get low on caffeine.  The only way for me to quit caffeine is to keep it out of the house - and exercise all of my self control to not go buy it.

Edited December 27, 2017 by eternalsummer

[OneStepAtATime]

A couple of days ago I talked to a friend of mine that was morbidly obese as a teenager and young adult.  I hadn't seen him in a while but he came home for the holidays and hung out with us.  I was hoping he could offer some advice.  After years of fighting the issue and the additional health problems that extreme weight caused or exacerbated he was able to turn things around and is in excellent health overall and at a healthy weight as well.  He said that he finally was able to get control of his weight and health issues with a combination of the following:

 

1.  Medical help from a doctor who specializes in morbid obesity in teenagers/young adults.

2.  A personal trainer who also had experience working with morbidly obese young adults and teens.

3.  A dietician also with experience in this.

 

They worked as a team.  They came up with a long term plan that included realistic short term goals.   It took years.  Literally years.  It was hard work and took time.  There was no quick fix.  His whole body was way out of whack so what might work for a mildly overweight person was not helping him.  His family has very little money so he had to pay for most of it himself with his job.  He lived at home and then with roommates (DH's younger brothers actually) to help afford the costs but felt it was necessary.  He had a health scare plus he had seen family members suffer.  He didn't want that path.

 

He is far healthier now and his weight is under control.  He will never be skinny but skinny doesn't indicate health.  He is at a healthy weight for his body type/size and looks great.  He also feels great and has a lot of energy.  He also is able to periodically eat the foods other people eat, including cheese fries (which we shared together two nights ago in fact) because his body chemistry is finally balanced.

 

He says without the professional support long term he would never have made it.  His body was just too out of whack.  He still sees his doctor each year and still checks in with the personal trainer once a quarter but he no longer needs the dietician. He has become a great cook and knows how to balance all the various nutrients his body needs.

 

He also said getting that support probably saved his life (he has had relatives die pretty young due to complications from morbid obesity).   He does not believe he would have been able to do it on his own.  He was fighting against too many things failing within his own body and did not have the expertise to tweak it all out.  He absolutely agrees this is far beyond just simple willpower to eat less.  

 

He also says good luck you and your SS.  He said to share that he appreciates you wanting to help and that your SS will definitely need the support.

 

Best wishes.

[Guest]

 

I read the article.

 

Here’s what I don’t understand about the perspective offered in this article: what is the proposed solution? Are such articles meant to say it is not possible to alter one’s size downwards once a large size has been achieved, due to these multiple factors? But clearly, there are people who do succeed in changing both their lifestyle and their size in a downward direction, and who retain the new size. Some such people are members on this board. Others, I have met IRL.

 

Also, this article talks about how a thin person gets no “credit†so to speak, for resisting the Hershey’s Kisses, because there is nothing to resist. As a thin person, I don’t seek “credit†for some iron willpower I surely must have, and I recognize that in most instances, no “willpowerâ€is needed because I just don’t care about the Hershey’s Kisses. (Ironically, I have a bowl of Hershey’s Kisses sitting in my dining room; they have been sitting there since Friday. I have eaten one of them.) So, to sum, I recognize that not much willpower is needed because I am indifferent to the candy, but what is their proposed solution for someone who does need to alter their eating habits? Ought they just to eat the kisses until they are all gone, because resistance is futile?

 

Whenever this topic is discussed here, what puzzles me is the assertion or implication that obese people are not doing anything different from a thin person, as if there was nothing that led to conditions present. I have seen instances of obese people eating very differently from how/what/a quantity I would eat. Is the assertion that my body size vs.the obese person’s body size is totally unrelated to eating differently?

 

Thinness and obesity are correlated to many tiny differences (and some large differences) that make up those people’s lives. Form follows function; the shape of our bodies will reflect the function we request to a large (haha) degree. I don’t see the benefit of denying that as the article seems to do.

 

When a person gains ten pounds, what adjustments do they make? Do they say, “I really need to lay off the Kisses.� Do they just go buy bigger pants? Do they try to survive on carrots only (extremism)? It’s like the article is saying the person can’t change what they are doing because all the results will be bad and they will get fatter only. But isn’t it also likely that if they continue on their current trajectory, they will get fatter still?

 

I guess that is enough questions for now.

[Sandwalker]

Right. But when a person has a BMI of 37.5 and high blood pressure at age 16......maybe the status quo is not going to work.

No, he neeeeeeeds help from the adults in his life!

[ktgrok]

I read it.  I read a lot of stuff.

 

I also live with two extremes.  I was in my son's room ealier and found the box of breakfast bars I  put in there 10 days ago.  He has eaten 2 bars.  

 

Our actions affect our outcomes.

 

But WHY does he want less food? Is he dying to eat them and denying himself with super willpower? Or is he just less hungry than DSS due to complex differences in their biology?

[Scarlett]

No, he neeeeeeeds help from the adults in his life!

 

 

Ok, we are getting him help.  But we absolutely can't do this FOR him. 

[Scarlett]

But WHY does he want less food? Is he dying to eat them and denying himself with super willpower? Or is he just less hungry than DSS due to complex differences in their biology?

 

He is hungry much of the time.  He can eat a lot of food.  But he has to stop and think, 'ok, it is time to eat.' He doesn't mindlessly eat anything.  The bars in his room?  He most likely forgets they are there.  I asked him about them.....he said, 'oh yeah, those are good.'  And then I find he has eaten 2 in 10 days.  

 

He just thinks about food differently than dss.  I can't quite put my finger on it.  It is like he 'eats to live' and dss 'lives to eat.'

[Guest]

But WHY does he want less food? Is he dying to eat them and denying himself with super willpower? Or is he just less hungry than DSS due to complex differences in their biology?

But eating more food would clearly not help the overweight son, right?

[ktgrok]

Whats needed is to acknowledge that it is a medical issue not a moral or character issue and seek MEDICAL help. From an expert in obesity. 

 

Similar to how we are finally realizing things like mental illness are biological not moral issues.

 

 

[Scarlett]

Whats needed is to acknowledge that it is a medical issue not a moral or character issue and seek MEDICAL help. From an expert in obesity. 

 

Similar to how we are finally realizing things like mental illness are biological not moral issues.

 

 

I don't think obesity is a moral or character issue.  But just like mental illness there is only so much others can help.  At some point the individual has to step up and do the hard work to get better.

[Guest]

I don't think obesity is a moral or character issue. But just like mental illness there is only so much others can help. At some point the individual has to step up and do the hard work to get better.

And just like in mental illness, some people do not wish to change. They are okay with how things are. They have not had their proverbial “rock bottom†experience and so they are okay with things as they are, in spite of how much pain it may cause those around them.

[ktgrok]

I don't think obesity is a moral or character issue.  But just like mental illness there is only so much others can help.  At some point the individual has to step up and do the hard work to get better.

bsolutely, and that getting better includes medical treatment. Just like with mental illness. A self help book won't cure bi-polar disease any more than a diet plan is likely to cure obesity.

[ktgrok]

And just like in mental illness, some people do not wish to change. They are okay with how things are. They have not had their proverbial “rock bottomi think it is more often that they don't know†experience and so they are okay with things as they are, in spite of how much pain it may cause those around them.

With obesity they often don't have access to, or are unaware of, research backed medical help. If you have tried self help and it didn't work and are unaware of other options, they will give up.

[Scarlett]

With obesity they often don't have access to, or are unaware of, research backed medical help. If you have tried self help and it didn't work and are unaware of other options, they will give up.

 

 

Thankfully dss doesn't have that limitation.  We don't have endless money to throw at this issue, but we are willing to do what we can reasonable do.  I do believe he has enough help to pull himself out of this situation.

[HomeAgain]

He is hungry much of the time.  He can eat a lot of food.  But he has to stop and think, 'ok, it is time to eat.' He doesn't mindlessly eat anything.  The bars in his room?  He most likely forgets they are there.  I asked him about them.....he said, 'oh yeah, those are good.'  And then I find he has eaten 2 in 10 days.  

 

He just thinks about food differently than dss.  I can't quite put my finger on it.  It is like he 'eats to live' and dss 'lives to eat.'

 

This isn't necessarily bad, just different.

 

Scarlett, I'm under 100lbs.  I love to eat.  Seriously - we plan our vacations around places to eat and make reservations at restaurants before any other plans are made.  I married a man who became a fantastic cook and feels the same way I do.

 

It's okay to love food.  And the desire for 'junk' tends to fall off as real food sates the body.  A twinkie is not satisfying after eating real ingredients for months on end.  A Hershey's Kiss tastes blah and unsatisfying after having a dark chocolate truffle made with good ingredients.  It takes more junk to get the same level of satisfaction for the brain to signal "enough!"  The problem is getting over the hump and giving up the junk - there were many years we ate out of boxes and brought junk into the house every time we went shopping: chips, soda, chicken tenders..it is so much less now, but the struggle to give that up was hard because the body develops a taste for it.

 

I would really, really, stress not making the comparison between two very different kids.  It will be much better as treating them separately with individual needs and approaches.

[Scarlett]

This isn't necessarily bad, just different.

 

Scarlett, I'm under 100lbs.  I love to eat.  Seriously - we plan our vacations around places to eat and make reservations at restaurants before any other plans are made.  I married a man who became a fantastic cook and feels the same way I do.

 

It's okay to love food.  And the desire for 'junk' tends to fall off as real food sates the body.  A twinkie is not satisfying after eating real ingredients for months on end.  A Hershey's Kiss tastes blah and unsatisfying after having a dark chocolate truffle made with good ingredients.  It takes more junk to get the same level of satisfaction for the brain to signal "enough!"  The problem is getting over the hump and giving up the junk - there were many years we ate out of boxes and brought junk into the house every time we went shopping: chips, soda, chicken tenders..it is so much less now, but the struggle to give that up was hard because the body develops a taste for it.

 

I would really, really, stress not making the comparison between two very different kids.  It will be much better as treating them separately with individual needs and approaches.

 

 

Well.  I am not so much specifically comparing them.  Just a general observation.

And I too LOVE food.  MUCH more so than ds.  I also have to exercise great self control about food especially at this stage of my life.  But even as a 30 year old there came a time I couldn't eat everything I wanted or once did.  

[maize]

Maybe. I really have no way to compare my genetic cues to those of anyone else. But what is the answer?

Start by not comparing ds and dss. It sounds to me like the mental effort involved in NOT eating an entire box of granola bars in a day or two is, for your son, the equivalent of a leisurely stroll around the block. For your step son it is likely more like running a half marathon.

 

Start with that understanding.

 

Then get professional help for your dss's physical condition just as you would if he had cystic fibrosis or asthma or anything else for which you recognize that the physical body is not functioning optimally and will power is not going to cure or manage the disease.

[Guest]

This isn't necessarily bad, just different.

 

Scarlett, I'm under 100lbs. I love to eat. Seriously - we plan our vacations around places to eat and make reservations at restaurants before any other plans are made. I married a man who became a fantastic cook and feels the same way I do.

 

It's okay to love food. And the desire for 'junk' tends to fall off as real food sates the body. A twinkie is not satisfying after eating real ingredients for months on end. A Hershey's Kiss tastes blah and unsatisfying after having a dark chocolate truffle made with good ingredients. It takes more junk to get the same level of satisfaction for the brain to signal "enough!" The problem is getting over the hump and giving up the junk - there were many years we ate out of boxes and brought junk into the house every time we went shopping: chips, soda, chicken tenders..it is so much less now, but the struggle to give that up was hard because the body develops a taste for it.

 

I would really, really, stress not making the comparison between two very different kids. It will be much better as treating them separately with individual needs and approaches.

I think it is bad when it has morphed into a compulsion and has taken it’s toll on one’s health, though. Just as it isn’t bad to love a nice glass of wine, though it is bad to drink yourself silly. It isn’t bad to play a game of chance for kicks, but it is bad to use your rent money to bet on horses. It isn’t bad to love sex but it is bad to use people or hurt people to satisfy those desires.

 

And, I agree with you about appreciating quality food. It is part of why Hershey’s Kisses don’t call my name. There is an aspect, thouh, where if one keeps eating the bags of kisses, one just wants more of the same. So there is at some point a need to make a specific decision not to eat that. You have to break the crave cycle, after which it doesn’t have much pull.

[ktgrok]

Thankfully dss doesn't have that limitation.  We don't have endless money to throw at this issue, but we are willing to do what we can reasonable do.  I do believe he has enough help to pull himself out of this situation.

 

Yes, sorry, wasn't referring to your situation, but to the more broad questions raised by the article and other posters. 

[Scarlett]

Start by not comparing ds and dss. It sounds to me like the mental effort involved in NOT eating an entire box of granola bars in a day or two is, for your son, the equivalent of a leisurely stroll around the block. For your step son it is likely more like running a half marathon.

 

Start with that understanding.

 

Then get professional help for your dss's physical condition just as you would if he had cystic fibrosis or asthma or anything else for which you recognize that the physical body is not functioning optimally and will power is not going to cure or manage the disease.

 

 

Well, I am only comparing them because of the comparison others make .  

 

 

Btw.....dss volunteered to me that he was down 10 pounds before he left for his mom's.  I asked him what he did differently.  He says, 'nothing.'  I said, 'well that is discouraging...because if doing nothing differently changes nothing you aren't motivated to change.'

 

I think he did something differently.  Dh said he noticed dss did not go back for seconds several times during that week.

[ktgrok]

 

And, I agree with you about appreciating quality food. It is part of why Hershey’s Kisses don’t call my name. There is an aspect, thouh, where if one keeps eating the bags of kisses, one just wants more of the same. So there is at some point a need to make a specific decision not to eat that. You have to break the crave cycle, after which it doesn’t have much pull.

 

You are speaking as someone who is not morbidly obese. I can say that pre surgery I got an actual factual high from eating carbs and especially sweets. It's much less after surgery, almost immediately. It was like an addict getting a hit...feelings of general anxiousness or whatnot that you don't quite have a finger on, but then all that going away after eating ANY kind of sugar or carb, didn't have to even taste very good. Crap frosting from a can would do just as well as a well crafted dessert. 

 

So the crap candy isn't addictive to you. Your body isn't screaming at you to eat it. For someone morbidly obese it is like being thirsty, surrounded by water and not being allowed to drink enough to satisfy that thirst. Every day of their lives. Every hour. Waking up in th middle of the night hungry. 

 

It isn't a matter of will power. Yes, the outliers manage to lose and keep it off. But they are outliers. 

[Guest]

You are speaking as someone who is not morbidly obese. I can say that pre surgery I got an actual factual high from eating carbs and especially sweets. It's much less after surgery, almost immediately. It was like an addict getting a hit...feelings of general anxiousness or whatnot that you don't quite have a finger on, but then all that going away after eating ANY kind of sugar or carb, didn't have to even taste very good. Crap frosting from a can would do just as well as a well crafted dessert.

 

So the crap candy isn't addictive to you. Your body isn't screaming at you to eat it. For someone morbidly obese it is like being thirsty, surrounded by water and not being allowed to drink enough to satisfy that thirst. Every day of their lives. Every hour. Waking up in th middle of the night hungry.

 

It isn't a matter of will power. Yes, the outliers manage to lose and keep it off. But they are outliers.

I understand that, the addictive aspect. But that begins somewhere, does it not? So, that is one piece I don’t get. You were not *born* addicted to sugar, right? Was it improper information (i.e., “Just eat these low-fat cookies instead and the weight will melt off!â€) that got you to the addictive point?

 

I have seen, maybe we can call it, pre-addictive tendencies in myself with sugar sometimes. Once, when I was nursing a baby I had Thrush (actually happened twice, but anyway...) and needed to cut all sugars from my diet. It was definitely difficult for about three days. I kept thinking about my iced tea, my relatively benign daily dose of sugar. Probably some other items too, but the craving for my tea stands out the most because I have a firmly entrenched habit of drinking it with dinner. But I interrupted the craving by requiring it of myself. Probably was easier than it might have otherwise been because nursing was excruciating and I wanted to get rid of the yeast as quickly as I possibly could. So, high motivation to quit sugar. But after I interrupted that craving for three days, it stopped mattering to me.

 

Please note: I am not saying, “Simple! Just quit sugar and in three days, a morbidly obese person will be totally indifferent to sugar!†I am not suggesting that at all. I am saying that addictive patterns can be curtailed, too. What I have never understood is why weight gain is almost always downplayed for a while. Ten pounds. Twenty. Thirty...and then, one day, everyone starts going, “Woah, man! Don’t you think this is getting outta hand?†By that point, some biological factors are likely having a serious impact.

 

I don’t know why we (in society) downplay bad habits until they blossom into real problems.

[eternalsummer]

Well, we don't do it with all bad habits.  In general (although it does depend on local culture), cigarette smoking is not downplayed if you're just smoking 4 cigarettes a day - it's pretty thoroughly societally shunned no matter how much you smoke.

 

Drinking is different, though, and gambling - we tolerate a certain amount of both of  those, and I can see how it would be easy to slide from drinking 2-3 glasses of wine 3x a week to 2-3 glasses of wine a night to wine all day without anyone knowing exactly when to start making a fuss about it.  

[Rosie_0801]

I understand that, the addictive aspect. But that begins somewhere, does it not? So, that is one piece I don’t get. You were not *born* addicted to sugar, right? Was it improper information (i.e., “Just eat these low-fat cookies instead and the weight will melt off!”) that got you to the addictive point?

 

We are born with a predisposition for comfort eating. 

[ktgrok]

I understand that, the addictive aspect. But that begins somewhere, does it not? So, that is one piece I don’t get. You were not *born* addicted to sugar, right? 

 

Actually, there is a lot of evidence that people may in fact be born predisposed to it. Epigenetic studies show that the mother's diet/weight/etc can cause changes in the DNA of the fetus, turning on genes that increase the baby's adult risk of obesity. And then that person passes those changes on the THEIR offspring, etc.

 

Gut bacteria seem to also play a huge role. HUGE. There are cases of obese people getting the gut flora of a thin person and losing weight and vice versa...a thin person gaining weight from a gut flora transplant. These people didn't have a brain transplant, this was a biological thing.

 

Just like an alcoholic may very well be born to be an alcoholic. Are there certain triggers? Probably. But people without those gene issues or gut flora issues can be exposed to the same triggers and it has no effect. 

 

In my own life, I'd guess that my parents letting me have juice 24/7 as a kid, thinking it was healthy, may have triggered it. Also, my mother's own near starvation diet while pregnant perhaps. Or maybe it was all the antibiotics I had as a kid, due to chronic ear infections. Those have absolutely been linked to future obesity. 

Edited December 28, 2017 by ktgrok

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Well, I am only comparing them because of the comparison others make .  

 

 

Btw.....dss volunteered to me that he was down 10 pounds before he left for his mom's.  I asked him what he did differently.  He says, 'nothing.'  I said, 'well that is discouraging...because if doing nothing differently changes nothing you aren't motivated to change.'

 

I think he did something differently.  Dh said he noticed dss did not go back for seconds several times during that week.

Why would you tell him that any part of this is discouraging???

 

Maybe he doesn't realize the difference that several small decisions can make.

 

Maybe he managed to stop focusing on it for awhile and lost a few pounds just because of that.

 

As a person who knows about losing a lot of weight, I might have said something like, "I'm glad you're feeling better, and you must be making some good choices! Proud of you no matter what, sweetie. I'm going to work on my choices this coming week, too."

 

Just FWIW. Take it or leave it. 🙂

[Guest]

Actually, there is a lot of evidence that people may in fact be born predisposed to it. Epigenetic studies show that the mother's diet/weight/etc can cause changes in the DNA of the fetus, turning on genes that increase the baby's adult risk of obesity. And then that person passes those changes on the THEIR offspring, etc.

 

Gut bacteria seem to also play a huge role. HUGE. There are cases of obese people getting the gut flora of a thin person and losing weight and vice versa...a thin person gaining weight from a gut flora transplant. These people didn't have a brain transplant, this was a biological thing.

 

Just like an alcoholic may very well be born to be an alcoholic. Are there certain triggers? Probably. But people without those gene issues or gut flora issues can be exposed to the same triggers and it has no effect.

How does that square with the rapid increase in obesity rates in the US? It is precipitating faster than genetics explains. And there are many, many obese teens and children whose mother has never been overweight in her life.

[kiana]

How does that square with the rapid increase in obesity rates in the US? It is precipitating faster than genetics explains. And there are many, many obese teens and children whose mother has never been overweight in her life.

 

It certainly isn't the only cause. But there are studies in mice indicating that it's highly likely to be *a* cause. A complex, multifaceted problem like this will not have a single cause. 

 

Also, I'm not sure how familiar you are with epigenetics vs. genetics (so forgive me if I'm explaining what you already know) but it's not actually the genes changing, but rather the expression of the genes changing. In this case, it's the parents' diet influencing the expression of the offspring's genes. 

 

Here's a really interesting study about this in mice: https://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/45558/title/Obesity--Diabetes--and-Epigenetic-Inheritance/

[scoutingmom]

I read it. I read a lot of stuff.

 

I also live with two extremes. I was in my son's room ealier and found the box of breakfast bars I put in there 10 days ago. He has eaten 2 bars.

 

Our actions affect our outcomes.

So you read It, but don't believe what it said. Sad.

 

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk

[Scarlett]

Why would you tell him that any part of this is discouraging???

 

Maybe he doesn't realize the difference that several small decisions can make.

 

Maybe he managed to stop focusing on it for awhile and lost a few pounds just because of that.

 

As a person who knows about losing a lot of weight, I might have said something like, "I'm glad you're feeling better, and you must be making some good choices! Proud of you no matter what, sweetie. I'm going to work on my choices this coming week, too."

 

Just FWIW. Take it or leave it. 🙂

My point was for him to stop and think and be honest with himself.

[kiana]

My point was for him to stop and think and be honest with himself.

 

The problem is that this can very easily come across as discouraging on your part. 

 

To you, it's encouragement to do better. To a teen, it's easy for it to be "Well, my minor success apparently wasn't good enough."

[ktgrok]

How does that square with the rapid increase in obesity rates in the US? It is precipitating faster than genetics explains. And there are many, many obese teens and children whose mother has never been overweight in her life.

 

I edited my post with more info, but didn't hit send fast enough. 

 

For one thing, it was actually low nutrition during pregnancy that was linked to the offspring later developing obesity. Epigenetic changes change a population faster than normal genetic changes. 

 

Triggers may include fructose in baby formula (one speculation), a steady diet of juice due to the sugar (this was once promoted as healthy), or antibiotic exposure at birth or in the first few years of life (changes the gut micro biome). No doubt a diet low in fiber and high in processed carbs can be a contributor as well, but there are plenty of kids eating that that don't become obese or develop problems, so not the full story. 

[scoutingmom]

I don't think obesity is a moral or character issue. But just like mental illness there is only so much others can help. At some point the individual has to step up and do the hard work to get better.

I am sure you tell yourself that but your words indicate that you do see it as a character issue.

 

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk

[Scarlett]

The problem is that this can very easily come across as discouraging on your part.

 

To you, it's encouragement to do better. To a teen, it's easy for it to be "Well, my minor success apparently wasn't good enough."

It wasn't encouragement to do better. It was encouragement to be honest with himself.

 

But probably, since it is always the case, I probably said it wrong.

[ktgrok]

A big thing that the article addressed is that the obese need more food to feel full. So a thin person eats until satiated. The obese person does the SAME thing, eats until satiated. It just takes way more food for some of them. 

[Scarlett]

I am sure you tell yourself that but your words indicate that you do see it as a character issue.

 

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk

No matter how many times you say something to me it doesn't make it true.

[ktgrok]

Other things that effect the overall obesity levels in the population include less NEAT...non exercise activity. A man 100 years ago would have eaten about the same calories as a man now, but burned more, keeping the metabolism going by constantly moving. Now, for someone who is already obese that won't fix it...I worked in a veterinary hospital doing 9-12 hour shifts...never sitting down, and didn't lose an ounce after the first week. My body adjusted. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

10 pounds is a LOT. Think of ten pounds of butter, or three 3lb bags of apples, or a large sack of potatoes, or a gallon of milk plus a little more.

 

It's worth celebrating, and ideally the positivity from loved ones and mentors could help him keep momentum going, to keep that ten pounds off and stay with those new choices.

 

No, your job is not to respond with success by carrying out your duty to make him stop and think and be honest with himself! I'm sorry, but if you treated me that way, and you were actually the most helpful adult in my life, I would be looking for a box of doughnuts, or just going for it the next time I kind of wanted seconds.

 

Build him UP. Make him believe that you'll love and accept him no matter what, even if he's fat, even if he literally, tragically, eats himself to death with an obesity related disease. But let him know that you are in his corner, because your only desire is for everyone in the family to survive and thrive, together. Prove that you'll celebrate all victories and that you believe that he can be happy and well.

 

Any weight loss that comes from changed habits, and not from harming himself, is a victory.

 

Any changed habits are victories even if the results are very, very slow or even invisible, because losing weight and becoming healthier rarely looks like a straight line.

 

Again with the beating of the drum: The steps you are taking are good. But you all need counseling.

[Scarlett]

10 pounds is a LOT. Think of ten pounds of butter, or three 3lb bags of apples, or a large sack of potatoes, or a gallon of milk plus a little more.

 

It's worth celebrating, and ideally the positivity from loved ones and mentors could help him keep momentum going, to keep that ten pounds off and stay with those new choices.

 

No, your job is not to respond with success by carrying out your duty to make him stop and think and be honest with himself! I'm sorry, but if you treated me that way, and you were actually the most helpful adult in my life, I would be looking for a box of doughnuts, or just going for it the next time I kind of wanted seconds.

 

Build him UP. Make him believe that you'll love and accept him no matter what, even if he's fat, even if he literally, tragically, eats himself to death with an obesity related disease. But let him know that you are in his corner, because your only desire is for everyone in the family to survive and thrive, together. Prove that you'll celebrate all victories and that you believe that he can be happy and well.

 

Any weight loss that comes from changed habits, and not from harming himself, is a victory.

 

Any changed habits are victories even if the results are very, very slow or even invisible, because losing weight and becoming healthier rarely looks like a straight line.

 

Again with the beating of the drum: The steps you are taking are good. But you all need counseling.

 

I did celebrate. I said, oh that is great. Then I asked him how he did that. He said he did nothing different.

[scoutingmom]

No matter how many times you say something to me it doesn't make it true.

I am telling you what your own words say about your beliefs on this. I am not the only person that has noted it. I am not going through the thread and quoting the examples that display that attitude as others have previously and you denied it still. I don't know if you have fooled yourself or what. But that attitude comes through loud and clear.

 

If it is truly not your belief then you should reread your words and figure out why you say the things you do because that is the message you give to the world.

 

No matter how often you deny It, your words are a product of your thoughts and attitudes.

 

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk

[ktgrok]

Also, he might NOT have done anything different. My husband can lose 10 pounds in a week if he just has less stress. That can be the only change, and the weight drops off from the change in cortisol hormone. 

[Scarlett]

Also, he might NOT have done anything different. My husband can lose 10 pounds in a week if he just has less stress. That can be the only change, and the weight drops off from the change in cortisol hormone.

In which case wouldn't that be discouraging? To have no control over weight gain or loss?

[ktgrok]

In which case wouldn't that be discouraging? To have no control over weight gain or loss?

 

In one sense yes, knowing that a lot of his struggles with weight related to his high stress is upsetting to DH. On the other hand, knowing this, he can look at ways to reduce stress or at least reduce cortisol levels in order to fight the battle more efficiently. 

 

Things that can help with that are certain kinds of exercise (my DH gets more stress relief from weight lifting than cardio, for instance), yoga, more sleep, spending time on a hobby or other pleasure pursuit, meditation, etc. So he knows he has to incorporate some of that, that just changing his eating isn't enough. If he didn't make that connection he might not think to incorporate say, meditation or spending time on a hobby as part of his weight loss strategy. 

[bolt.]

It wasn't encouragement to do better. It was encouragement to be honest with himself.

 

But probably, since it is always the case, I probably said it wrong.

Yes, Scarlett. Whenever you say something specific and meaningful that can be easily interpreted using normal grammar and comprehension skills, but expect your listeners or readers to make inferences and extensions in order to ascertain your true meaning via a process of logical deduction and interpretation... that's called, "Saying it wrong."

 

Nobody needs that. Your step son doesn't need it. It's up to you to communicate with clarity in order to avoid accidentally hurting him and his efforts. It's not his job to interpret you according to your intentions. It's your job to avoid saying things that can be taken badly.

 

If your real meaning was to encourage him to 'be honest with himself' there is an easy clear way to say so. Here's an example: "I think you should think harder about recent changes. I bet there really is something that you did that made this awesome difference. It will be helpful if you identify what it was." (Although I don't know what that has to do with honesty... it's more about being attentive than being honest. Perhaps you could clarify further if you wanted to.)

[kiana]

When your words keep getting construed by others to mean things that you don't mean them to say, it might be worthwhile to figure out why that might be so. 

 

Words and phrasing affect kids a lot more than we realize. There are things my parents said to me that (as an adult) I can look back and see what they meant, but as a child really had a negative affect on me. 

[Guest]

A big thing that the article addressed is that the obese need more food to feel full. So a thin person eats until satiated. The obese person does the SAME thing, eats until satiated. It just takes way more food for some of them.

Well, not to harp on what thin people do differently, but thin people don’t always eat to satiety (necessarily). It is enitely possible a thin person eats a certain amount he or she deemed appropriate and then stops eating. My husband openly states this many times. He will say, “that —

Was so good, I could keep eating it.†But he doesn’t. He stops by decision.

 

I do agree that it takes more food for an obese person to feel full. I have seen obese people eat far more food than it is even possible for me to eat at once.

 

Eta: and damnit with this disappearing post thing!

Edited December 28, 2017 by Quill

[Scarlett]

You all have no idea how my words were received by him. Why don't you all just give me one bit of credit for maybe knowing how to talk to my kids. He got what I was saying. I could see it in his face and his body language. The little smile he gave me an the nod of his head.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

In one sense yes, knowing that a lot of his struggles with weight related to his high stress is upsetting to DH. On the other hand, knowing this, he can look at ways to reduce stress or at least reduce cortisol levels in order to fight the battle more efficiently.

 

Things that can help with that are certain kinds of exercise (my DH gets more stress relief from weight lifting than cardio, for instance), yoga, more sleep, spending time on a hobby or other pleasure pursuit, meditation, etc. So he knows he has to incorporate some of that, that just changing his eating isn't enough. If he didn't make that connection he might not think to incorporate say, meditation or spending time on a hobby as part of his weight loss strategy.

That is very interesting. Thank you.

[bolt.]

You all have no idea how my words were received by him. Why don't you all just give me one bit of credit for maybe knowing how to talk to my kids. He got what I was saying. I could see it in his face and his body language. The little smile he gave me an the bid of his head.

That's good to know.

 

It would be easier to 'give you credit' for that sort of thing if you mentioned it in your posting. I can't imagine any other way your readers would be able to infer that it occurred.