Middle schoolers at community college

[melmichigan]

My parents enrolled me in the public HS so that DE would be free. They didn't actually want me to take an classes at the HS, we were longtime HSLDA members and were pretty scared of the evil public school. Though, looking back, I thank God I was DE through the PS. My mother was clueless about making a homeshool high school transcript. She's still clueless. Like, really, she has no idea that she could make a transcript or that she even could.

 

Her main goal was to get education over and done with as quickly as possible so that I could get a J.O.B. (yes, spelled out in capital letters). Yes, I got my bachelors when I was 20. But it totally tanked my life chances of getting a job I wanted.

 

It's good that you have a quality CC (mine was not, I went to the local state U 11th and 12th grade and it wasn't much better). But there's no life prize for accelerating out of education as quickly as possible. There really isn't, just so you know.

Totally off topic, but what job would a bachelor's degree totally tank one's chance of getting? (Not being snarky, but really confused by this.)

 

At our local HS DE is only allowed if it is something that isn't already offered at the HS, and must be approved by the principal.  The counselor told me right off 4-5 credit hours to be considered.  It is not encouraged.

Edited August 30, 2017 by melmichigan

[melmichigan]

We have enough people participating with the middle college program now that DD's new CC syllabus specifically states (emphasis is theirs): Please be aware that our texts contain content that can be very frank about issues of politics, religion, and human sexuality.  This is college, and college expects and demands adult thinking about issues and adult response to those issues, and at times, discussions might necessarily include â€‹adult language.   :lol:

[Catwoman]

Do you realize how insulting it is to AL parents to have 12yo kids lumped into sweeping general classifications?

I will not apologize for others' narrow views. It's all on topic. I described views as being skewed. You are being insulting. I refuse to devolve in this direction. I'm out. No more troll feeding.

Bluegoat is most certainly NOT a troll. :glare:

 

Your arrogance in this thread is astounding.

[Arcadia]

Totally off topic, but what job would a bachelor's degree totally tank one's chance of getting? (Not being snarky, but really confused by this.).

Not who you are asking but my bachelor's degree GPA did close some doors (which I wasn't interested in). My studious husband's GPA was much higher and he could go to a direct PhD program. I was interested in the corporate world/private sector and they didn't care if I had straight As in college as long as I could do the work well during probation. My husband's first public sector employer after college did look at college GPA and detailed transcript.

 

A friend did went to get a second bachelors degree in her free time to "compensate" for the first one. She had intended to switch from private sector to academia so going on to postgraduate was important to her.

[Dmmetler]

We pay full, not- insignificant price. Because it's a NY state school, I think my 13 yr old is the only one paying for his classes 😂. Worth it.

Same here. TN has free CC for almost everyone. Except DD. It's definitely worth it (and we looked into the Middle college high school and found the restrictions weren't worth it).

 

We're using CC to NOT rush quickly through school-it's giving DD interesting, new stuff to learn from subject matter experts when she's exhausted what I can do. There are only so many mentors who will volunteer themselves. After awhile, it gets a little insane to try to find someone for multiple subjects vs just enrolling in college. But I really don't care if she gets an AA or not. That's not the goal (although DD says she would like to do so in lieu of the local high school homeschool graduation). Finite math? Science teaching techniques for Early Childhood? Nutrition and food chemistry? Memphis Music History? Sure!

 

She will be applying to college "for real" as a freshman and I don't expect her to graduate in less than 4 years after high school. In fact, that was something I checked explicitly. I want her to have that time to grow up in her late teens/early 20's, just as much as I want her to have that time to graduate now. I expect that she will find the state U just as much of a buffet as she finds the community college, and will have more than enough classes to fill her time there.

[Crimson Wife]

Everybody is assuming that the local PS offers all these excellent, challenging honors classes when it really isn't that uncommon for them to not. Even the "best" PS in our county, the one where houses zoned for it cost seven figures, doesn't offer honors classes until 11th. In 9th and 10th the courses are mixed-ability. 

 

Our district used to offer algebra 1 starting in 7th and geometry in 8th leading to AP Calculus in 11th and post-AP math in 12th. Now since Common Core ALL students take algebra 1 in 9th and they will stop offering calculus once the last students who took middle school algebra graduate.  :glare:

 

Even if the CC courses were not as good as an honors high school course would be, I am positive they are better than the mixed-ability 10th grade courses at our zoned high school. 

[Kassia]

Everybody is assuming that the local PS offers all these excellent, challenging honors classes when it really isn't that uncommon for them to not. Even the "best" PS in our county, the one where houses zoned for it cost seven figures, doesn't offer honors classes until 11th. In 9th and 10th the courses are mixed-ability. 

 

Our district used to offer algebra 1 starting in 7th and geometry in 8th leading to AP Calculus in 11th and post-AP math in 12th. Now since Common Core ALL students take algebra 1 in 9th and they will stop offering calculus once the last students who took middle school algebra graduate.  :glare:

 

Even if the CC courses were not as good as an honors high school course would be, I am positive they are better than the mixed-ability 10th grade courses at our zoned high school. 

 

Exactly!  Our local ps does offer the math sequence you mentioned, but the math teachers at the upper levels are not very good so students get a very weak foundation and struggle in college if they are going into STEM fields.  Our CC has amazing math professors and students get a much better math education there.  

 

I have fraternal twin sons who don't look anything alike and are about 6 inches apart in height.  They went to ps and, in 10th grade, their HONORS BIOLOGY teacher asked them three times throughout the year if they were identical twins.  It was an awful class - total waste of time.  They had some really good teachers, but they also had some terrible teachers, too.  

[quark]

We have enough people participating with the middle college program now that DD's new CC syllabus specifically states (emphasis is theirs): Please be aware that our texts contain content that can be very frank about issues of politics, religion, and human sexuality.  This is college, and college expects and demands adult thinking about issues and adult response to those issues, and at times, discussions might necessarily include â€‹adult language.   :lol:

 

And just like how it's not what some kids need to be exposed to, it's exactly what other 12yos crave, i.e., respectful discussions at an adult level when it's not available elsewhere. (Could not resist bolding and underlining :laugh:). I'm sure we'd all love perfect solutions for our kids that are also challenging and also age appropriate and also socially and emotionally appropriate (if those needs are different from age needs). In the absence of perfect, college sometimes can be a good fit for a middle school aged child (and in our case, affordable enough too). Like most parents here who discuss and debate about homeschool curriculum, those of us who choose this option do weigh other options. Sometimes, taking the CC route is NOT to do things faster but to delay the child as much as possible and to go deeper instead. Or wider and deeper as was our experience. But in the end, mine asked to graduate early and was more than ready for it and while there were so many more courses he could have taken, he was already exhausting the academic maturity/ intellectual growth room that CC classes he was interested in could offer. If he was interested in their really cool culinary program, I would have suggested he take a spin through that too (but these chef school courses were restricted -- more strictly -- to 18+yo). We know families that have used the community college and university dual enrollment option for multiple years in time for the child to graduate high school with age peers.

Edited August 31, 2017 by quark

[Arcadia]

I'm sure we'd all love perfect solutions for our kids that are also challenging and also age appropriate and also socially and emotionally appropriate (if those needs are different from age needs).

I agree, especially for my younger boy. Older boy is much more adaptable.

 

While waiting for my younger boy to finish his SAT subject test, I was chatting with a mom who paid for Harker for her oldest because he finished Calculus BC at 8th grade and they wanted him in high school instead of dual enrollment. He rejected MIT for Stanford because he wanted to stay near home and doesn't like east coast weather. It was so funny because my oldest also isn't keen on east coast universities. She was waiting for her younger child to finish the SAT subject test as well.

 

We would likely attend Foothill's information session for homeschoolers but opt for the satellite campus if kids want to take classes. The satellite campus is lovely and has less greenery that my kids are sensitive to. My husband's office is also down the road. It's so funny having to check for things like ragweed allergy when touring campuses.

 

When my kids were at camp there, the only other daytime students were county police officers undergoing paramedic training and exams. The lunch and tea time chat in the common area was interesting and they did clean up their language once the 6th-11th graders came down for lunch.

 

We'll be touring high schools for real this year because of older boy. It would be fun seeing what the guidance counselors say.

[melmichigan]

And just like how it's not what some kids need to be exposed to, it's exactly what other 12yos crave, i.e., respectful discussions at an adult level when it's not available elsewhere. (Could not resist bolding and underlining :laugh:). I'm sure we'd all love perfect solutions for our kids that are also challenging and also age appropriate and also socially and emotionally appropriate (if those needs are different from age needs). In the absence of perfect, college sometimes can be a good fit for a middle school aged child (and in our case, affordable enough too). Like most parents here who discuss and debate about homeschool curriculum, those of us who choose this option do weigh other options. Sometimes, taking the CC route is NOT to do things faster but to delay the child as much as possible and to go deeper instead. Or wider and deeper as was our experience. But in the end, mine asked to graduate early and was more than ready for it and while there were so many more courses he could have taken, he was already exhausting the academic maturity/ intellectual growth room that CC classes he was interested in could offer. If he was interested in their really cool culinary program, I would have suggested he take a spin through that too (but these chef school courses were restricted -- more strictly -- to 18+yo). We know families that have used the community college and university dual enrollment option for multiple years in time for the child to graduate high school with age peers.

:iagree: very well said. Many of the kids attending DD's middle college program still enter university as freshman, by choice.  DD may be one of them, or she may decide there isn't anything more for her, interest wise, and move to university early with whatever credits she's completed.  Many kids finish most, but not all of their requirements, and then come back for a summer class to finish things out, or transfer credits back to complete their degree.  I'm just glad there are so many different options that weren't available when I was that age.

Edited August 31, 2017 by melmichigan

[melmichigan]

Not who you are asking but my bachelor's degree GPA did close some doors (which I wasn't interested in). My studious husband's GPA was much higher and he could go to a direct PhD program. I was interested in the corporate world/private sector and they didn't care if I had straight As in college as long as I could do the work well during probation. My husband's first public sector employer after college did look at college GPA and detailed transcript.

 

A friend did went to get a second bachelors degree in her free time to "compensate" for the first one. She had intended to switch from private sector to academia so going on to postgraduate was important to her.

So if I understand correctly it wasn't the degree, but the GPA?  That I can understand.

[Arcadia]

So if I understand correctly it wasn't the degree, but the GPA? That I can understand.

For my husband and I, it was the GPA. We both have engineering degrees from the same university, different major. Besides a great GRE or GMAT score depending on postgraduate major, the undergraduate GPA was also a sticky point for both admissions and scholarships. My parents could bankroll my MBA costs but my husband needed and was granted a full scholarship for his PhD.

[kiana]

Totally off topic, but what job would a bachelor's degree totally tank one's chance of getting? (Not being snarky, but really confused by this.)

 

Underachieving relative to one's true potential (whether caused by social or academic immaturity) can make getting into certain types of postgrad training or getting certain jobs very challenging. This can be compounded by an inappropriate choices of major or institution. While, yes, a git-r-done degree comprised of CLEP credits and distance education will indeed tick the "Bachelor's degree" box, it won't tick the box for jobs or postgrad degrees where they care a lot about specific classes, or one where recommendations are needed from professors who developed a relationship with the student, which it's difficult to do online.

 

It's true that this can often be fixed by returning to school to do a second Bachelor's degree, or in many cases a self-funded Master's with excellent grades. These and some time passed can mitigate a mediocre undergraduate record. However, there are limits to how far it can mitigate (some graduate programs have hard limits on undergraduate GPA), and these also require money and time (which has its own opportunity cost). 

 

Of course, this can happen to students at any age. They mature a lot during their late teens and twenties. But I feel it's a particular concern with parents and/or programs that are more concerned with pushing a student through to get an "early" degree so that they can "get started with their REAL life" because "all you need is a Bachelor's in anything", as opposed to parents/programs that are being pulled by a driven and talented student.

 

This doesn't apply anywhere near as much to DE with the intention to enter as a freshman, although it's still worth consideration. It also matters a lot how many credits they're taking. One or two classes with C's won't matter much, but 40 credits at a 2.0 can make getting a sufficiently competitive GPA at undergraduate very problematic. 

[madteaparty]

And just like how it's not what some kids need to be exposed to, it's exactly what other 12yos crave, i.e., respectful discussions at an adult level when it's not available elsewhere. (Could not resist bolding and underlining :laugh:). I'm sure we'd all love perfect solutions for our kids that are also challenging and also age appropriate and also socially and emotionally appropriate (if those needs are different from age needs). In the absence of perfect, college sometimes can be a good fit for a middle school aged child (and in our case, affordable enough too). Like most parents here who discuss and debate about homeschool curriculum, those of us who choose this option do weigh other options. Sometimes, taking the CC route is NOT to do things faster but to delay the child as much as possible and to go deeper instead. Or wider and deeper as was our experience. But in the end, mine asked to graduate early and was more than ready for it and while there were so many more courses he could have taken, he was already exhausting the academic maturity/ intellectual growth room that CC classes he was interested in could offer. If he was interested in their really cool culinary program, I would have suggested he take a spin through that too (but these chef school courses were restricted -- more strictly -- to 18+yo). We know families that have used the community college and university dual enrollment option for multiple years in time for the child to graduate high school with age peers.

I agree that this idea of "the middle schoolers are coming, they will disrupt our no holds barred intellectual discourse, quick, revise the syllabus" doesn't match our experience. DS has been invited to take classes, fwiw.

We are not graduating early either, these are all high school credits for us. He will apply as a freshman somewhere. But our current issue is that the 4 yr uni here only permits 24 credits to be taken as an unmatriculated student. There's another local program we will explore once he has those. The one downside of college classes is that it might ruin your child for normal high school classes :)