AP exam in 8th grade

[homeschoolkitty]

Have you heard of BasisEd? one of the top 5 schools system in the country. So when in the news some school like that comes to light I usually ask myself what are they doing right that I can use in my homeschool... There are many things, but one thing jumped out at me... they start their AP exams in 8th grade with the US History AP. By the time they take the May test they have covered US History for many years, and are prepared.

By graduation they have taken 9 to 11 AP exams. They spend their Senior Year doing a Thesis, or a project that of course needs to be aproved.

 

My kids are in elementary school. so why am I still thinking about AP tests? If I set my eyes on the US History AP, then I have a few years to drill the content into my kids and then let them try it.

 

What are yourt thoughts with mimiking succesful "schools" or with AP tests early on? If you have taken AP courses, how have you prepared your student?

 

Thanks

Mrs Q

Edited August 11, 2017 by homeschoolkitty

[EKS]

If I set my eyes on the US History AP, then I have a few years to drill the content into my kids and then let them try it.

 

Frankly, I think this sounds like a sure way to make kids hate history.  

[homeschoolkitty]

Frankly, I think this sounds like a sure way to make kids hate history.  

 

I don't think so, my kids already love History, we do our homeschool around History. We even use Science in the Beggining Series of books by J Wile and Berean Builders Publishers Who set Science in a History timeline.

Perhaps is my use of the word "drill" that makes it sound boring, I should say then practice, or make sure to include and repeat the topics covered in the U.S. History AP.

[Arcadia]

Have you heard of BasisEd?

...

What are your thoughts with mimiking succesful "schools" or with AP tests early on? If you have taken AP courses, how have you prepared your student?

We have toured Basis Independent and we are not impressed. My kids were bored.

 

I deal with the kids I am given so there is no way I could mimic any successful school system without modifications to suit my kids. My kids took their first AP exams in 6th and 7th grade for the experience in subjects that they are competent in. My husband and I have never taken an AP course and have no wish to.

 

There is more to BasisEd then just AP exams in 8th grade. Kids also start algebra 1 in 5th/6th grade and start aiming for perfect scores for SAT and ACT in 7th grade. Teachers were also given bonuses based on their students AP scores.

 

E.g.

"34+ ACT or 1500+ SAT Guarantee

For students entering grades 7–12 in the fall of 2017

 

Description

In this program, students will receive a 34+ on the ACT or a 1500+ on the SAT! This program is specifically designed for high-scoring students (minimum 29 on ACT or 1300 on SAT). Zenith Tutoring, our partner, provides unlimited sessions until the goal is reached, with each class providing private attention to each student—no group exercises.

...

Note: With this program, the maximum guarantee provided is a 34 on the ACT or a 1500 on the SAT. That said, there’s no reason you couldn’t exceed the guarantee; many of Zenith’s students do! (including perfect scores among BASIS students)

 

* Fee

$3,000 for the entire duration of the program, all materials included"

 

"800 Score Guarantee for Math 2 Subject Test

For students entering grades 7–12 in the fall of 2017

 

Description

In this program, students will get an 800 on the Math 2 Subject Test! Zenith Tutoring, our partner, provides unlimited sessions until the goal is reached, with each class providing private attention to each student—no group exercises.

...

Note: Students need a minimum score of 650. Students with lower scores can still participate in the program, but would need to agree to a reduced guarantee based on the initial test.

 

* Fee

$1,500 for the entire duration of the program, all materials included"

http://siliconvalley.basisindependent.com/summer-program.aspx

 

"Teachers receive bonuses based on the number of their students who pass AP exams—$200 for each student who passes with a score of 5; $100 for a 4—but schools must raise money themselves for other performance bonuses" http://educationnext.org/high-scores-at-basis-charter-schools/

 

ETA:

For AP exam in 8th grade and not just US history

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/654267-which-ap-for-a-whippersnapper/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/469861-ap-tests-taken-in-8th-grade/

Edited August 10, 2017 by Arcadia

[regentrude]

None of this sounds as if it would mesh with my educational philosophy.

They say on their website: "Readiness for the next level is what education is all about."

Ummm, no?

 

I dislike the emphasis on standardized tests. Of course teaching to the test will accomplish high scores.

 

 

The BASIS academic program involves students taking a minimum of eight AP courses and at least six AP Exams during their high school tenure, with these exams counting as final exams for the course, but many BASIS Curriculum graduates take as many as 20 AP Exams.

 

This sounds dreadful and not something I would want to mimic in my homeschool.

Edited August 10, 2017 by regentrude

[debi21]

As far as Basis, I understand they are high pressure and force out lower performing students, so that they lose a lot of students in high school grades, making the remainder of their students look really, really good. I would not be interested in that kind of environment. That said, taking so many APs is something a lot of kids with aspirations to elite universities do, so I would be in favor of that.

 

Around here, I understand the first AP most kids are able to take in public schools, in either 8th or 9th, is the Human Geography. That might be considered easier? Back in the stone age, I took my first in 10th and it was European history. 

 

Taking an AP course in 8th grade could be a good, ambitious goal, but I would not be thinking about memorizing facts as a useful indicator with regard to success in an AP exam. I think an important question is, how good at writing are your children? Because it's the essays being at an appropriate level that I would thinking about as to whether they are ready for an AP in grade 8. What is their general maturity level with regard to keeping calm with a long (3 hour, isn't it?) exam? Also, what kinds of tests will they have taken prior to an AP. You would want them quite comfortable with test-taking before something like that.

 

[wapiti]

In most schools, APUSH is taken in 11th grade (in place of regular high-school-level US history) and rarely before.  It also has a reputation of being among the more challenging AP tests.  I would think that APUSH would be a poor choice for most 8th graders, probably even most gifted ones.

[Farrar]

We could attend a BASIS school for free if we wanted to - there's a charter here. No way. I have zero interest in doing that to my kids. It's a huge amount of pressure and for what? To constantly be striving to beat everyone else on the SAT's? No thanks. I'm not interested in approaches to education that are focused so deeply on test scores at the expense of childhood, individual passions, and well-rounded education. They require hours and hours of homework for the kids. It just seems so empty to me. I can't imagine doing that to my kids. Sure, they'd probably be able to be trained to do some of this stuff... but I can't imagine they'd be happy and I know their anxiety would skyrocket.

[Arcadia]

In most schools, APUSH is taken in 11th grade (in place of regular high-school-level US history) and rarely before. It also has a reputation of being among the more challenging AP tests. I would think that APUSH would be a poor choice for most 8th graders, probably even most gifted ones.

When we went for the local Basis information session, AP human geography and AP World History was what the 8th graders could take if they want to. They do push APs because it looks good on the school profiles to have many National AP Scholars. The National AP Scholar award requires scoring at least 4 in 8 AP exams and they have two 9th graders achieving that in the Silicon Valley location.

 

"The BASIS Independent model works. The proof is in the pudding, as they say, and the proof here is a world record. According to results released by the College Board, 2 out of 7 grade 9 National AP Scholars in the entire world are students at BASIS Independent Silicon Valley.

...

More than 50% of the 9th graders in California who were named AP Scholars were BASIS Independent Silicon Valley students.

 

Students attending a BASIS.ed school are more than twice as likely to earn an AP Scholar award than their peers, and nine times more likely to earn the highest distinction, National AP Scholar." http://blog.basisindependent.com/fremont/world-record-number-of-global-ap-scholars-at-basis-independent-silicon-valley

[Farrar]

When we went for the local Basis information session, AP human geography and AP World History was what the 8th graders could take if they want to. They do push APs because it looks good on the school profiles to have many National AP Scholars. The National AP Scholar award requires scoring at least 4 in 8 AP exams and they have two 9th graders achieving that in the Silicon Valley location.

 

"The BASIS Independent model works. The proof is in the pudding, as they say, and the proof here is a world record. According to results released by the College Board, 2 out of 7 grade 9 National AP Scholars in the entire world are students at BASIS Independent Silicon Valley.

...

More than 50% of the 9th graders in California who were named AP Scholars were BASIS Independent Silicon Valley students.

 

Students attending a BASIS.ed school are more than twice as likely to earn an AP Scholar award than their peers, and nine times more likely to earn the highest distinction, National AP Scholar." http://blog.basisindependent.com/fremont/world-record-number-of-global-ap-scholars-at-basis-independent-silicon-valley

 

The bolded is so misleading. Because the schools push out the lower performing kids and the attending students are self-selected by parents to begin with, this statistic is not telling us what they would like us to think it's telling us. It definitely isn't telling us that the method works for all students, which is what they're implying here.

[Susan in TX]

I have had high schoolers who have taken AP classes in public school. I do not think that it is developmentally appropriate to expect a middle school student to be able to do well on an AP test. Also teaching to these tests requires learning very little about a lot...it is a mile wide and an inch deep. While AP classes might be the best education public school can offer, I would not emulate that in our homeschool.

 

Susan in TX

[snowbeltmom]

Taking such a large number of AP exams would have crushed my kids' love of learning and prevented them from having the time to explore areas of interest.  Even if a student is aiming for a highly selective university, he/she doesn't need a slew of APs to be admitted.

[Roadrunner]

Every kid is different. i can't imagine any of my kids being able to knock out an AP US History exam in middle school. Some kids can. I think the key is to know if you are comparing your kids to the right group of kids. What sort of kids attend Basis? I don't know. If I had a PG kid, I would pay attention to the trajectory of Arcadia's boys. I have an average kid, so I am more likely to pay close attention to posts about those kids who appear similar to mine. I think it's the same idea with schools. They attract different sorts of kids and it's hard to know in elementary school which crowd your kids will be a part.

[Arcadia]

The bolded is so misleading. Because the schools push out the lower performing kids and the attending students are self-selected by parents to begin with, this statistic is not telling us what they would like us to think it's telling us. It definitely isn't telling us that the method works for all students, which is what they're implying here.

I did say they use AP scores as advertisement/marketing material. I don't think we misunderstood each other.

 

The educationnext article I linked upthread did mentioned about its self selected student body at the Tuscan school site.

 

"BASIS has run into trouble with that accelerated program in its D.C. school. Michael Block said the network opened a school in the nation’s capital to draw attention to its model: the more attention, the easier it will be to negotiate charters in other states, Olga Block figured. Months before its doors even opened, the school began offering remedial classes to incoming students, but math and reading skills are still weak.

 

“If they can’t read, what are we thinking about†teaching Latin, D.C. school head Paul Morrissey said to me. He also has abandoned physics for some 6th graders until they’ve mastered basic math skills. And about that BASIS culture of hard work and studiousness: “It’s been difficult to get buy-in,†he conceded.

...

All that makes for a highly self-selected student body. The Tucson school, with 706 students, had just 30 on special education IEP and Section 504 plans in 2013. Systemwide, 11 percent of BASIS students are Hispanic and 28 percent are Asian, although Arizona is 30 percent Hispanic and 3 percent Asian. All but a handful of the network’s 300 African Americans are in D.C. And except in D.C., BASIS doesn’t take Title I or school-lunch funding, so it has no statistics on student poverty."

 

This part in the same article makes me think the founders are becoming more profit driven regardless of what their original intentions are.

 

"Michael Block said the BASIS schools received considerably less than that in 2013: $6,200 in Arizona and $12,000 in D.C., largely because they don’t qualify for most funds that target disadvantaged kids. Those funding disparities are behind the network’s plans to open what Block calls “moderately priced†private schools. So are the proscriptions in most states against hiring uncertified teachers, and, in some states, against exempting charter school teachers from local collective-bargaining agreements.

 

BASIS’s management structure, which includes a for-profit management company, excludes it from still other states. Each BASIS school is a nonprofit that owns its building; among other advantages, nonprofits more easily qualify for tax-free construction bonds. The for-profit, BASIS Schools, Inc., secures the charters, employs the teachers, and handles centralized functions. Among the advantages: it can opt out of Arizona’s teacher-retirement system and offer 401(k) plans instead."

 

http://educationnext.org/high-scores-at-basis-charter-schools/

[madteaparty]

I would guess with sufficient amounts of time on topic one could teach a rock to take the AP test.* The more interesting question would be how much life these kids are spending studying for this one test and what the rest of their lives look like. I feel like, aside from talent, this is sort of the elephant in the room that no one talks about. I'm guessing it wouldn't look as great on a brochure to say, " at 3 hrs per day per subject, 7 days a week, we have this result and you could too!". There's amazingly talented kiddos but there's also amazingly busy ones, and maybe the busy outnumber the talented. Neither live in my house so I wouldn't know ;)

* sarcasm alert.

[regentrude]

"Students attending a BASIS.ed school are more than twice as likely to earn an AP Scholar award than their peers, and nine times more likely to earn the highest distinction, National AP Scholar."

 

Arrgh. It's not even wrong. And of course absolutly meaningless. For a meaningful comparison, one cannot change several variables at once.

They don't have a "peer" group to compare their student population of hand selected, high achieving, ambitious students from education focused parents of higher socioeconomic strata who find lots of AP tests desirable. Oh, and who have no learning disabilities. To make this a meaningful statement, they need to compare with a peer group of just such students attending other schools or being homeschooled, and compare it to them.

 

It's obvious that highly intelligent students who have ambitious parents and are drilled for standardized tests do much better on those tests than the average kid. Duh.

Edited August 10, 2017 by regentrude

[homeschoolkitty]

I agree that I am a homeschooler, therefore I do not do a school at home. I don't plan to copy BasisEd at home, however, just like many others, I do look at different curricula, I spice up my teaching, and I look at what the Schools around me--and around the world--are doing. I know my kid's "learning style" I know what fits them, and I am willing to challange myself to help them learn.

 

As I mentioned before there was ONE thing that really took me by surprized and that was that they take AP exams in 8th grade....I do know that they start schools in expensive neighborhoods, have no free lunches, and have no bussing, making that a little weed-out system for them, and they have been publicly critizied for their drop out rates in upper grades.

 

I am not an apologist for this school, I am glad that so many have an opinion about my first question. I'd like to hear answers to my second question. If your child has taken AP exams, I see someone did that  in 7th grade here, how did you prepare, and how did you prepare your kids for it. I agree, exam taking should be part of of their lives so they are exposed to tests like this. Part of that would be to see how my kids do with tests... so far there is no problem, they are great readers, they need practice with writing.

 

My thoughts with APs are mainly saving 10k-40k depending on what school my kids get into, I talk about US History because it's a love we have for it.

 

Mrs. Q.

 

[Arcadia]

They don't have a "peer" group to compare their student population of hand selected, high achieving, ambitious students from education focused parents of higher socioeconomic strata who find lots of AP tests desirable. Oh, and who have no learning disabilities. To make this a meaningful statement, they need to compare with a peer group of just such students attending other schools or being homeschooled, and compare it to them.

Many of the tech hubs do have comparable public high schools to supply the "peer" group but that won't make BASIS look good. Just in Silicon Valley alone there are Gunn, Palo Alto, Saratoga, Lynbrook, Monta Vista which are all public high schools with "student population of hand selected, high achieving, ambitious students from education focused parents of higher socioeconomic strata who find lots of AP tests desirable". I believe there are other public high schools like Thomas Jefferson High for Science and Technology in Northern Virginia who can supply a peer group for comparison.

 

BASIS is also very selective for their public charter schools including putting children at a lower grade level if they aren't "good enough". This is redshirting by the school rather than by the parent :(

 

"4. Applicant Age Requirements

We cannot guarantee that any student who enrolls will enroll at the age-appropriate grade level. In some cases, students will be enrolled in lower grades in order to ensure their grade level matches their level of preparation and content knowledge. Ultimately, we make every effort to set our students up for success, which includes reserving the right to place students in lower grade levels."

https://apply.bsischools.org/apply/sharefile.php?id=127&sh=cf7c740ed1c696a3ed70c6830ec7246b

[snowbeltmom]

I agree that I am a homeschooler, therefore I do not do a school at home. I don't plan to copy BasisEd at home, however, just like many others, I do look at different curricula, I spice up my teaching, and I look at what the Schools around me--and around the world--are doing. I know my kid's "learning style" I know what fits them, and I am willing to challange myself to help them learn.

 

As I mentioned before there was ONE thing that really took me by surprized and that was that they take AP exams in 8th grade....I do know that they start schools in expensive neighborhoods, have no free lunches, and have no bussing, making that a little weed-out system for them, and they have been publicly critizied for their drop out rates in upper grades.

 

I am not an apologist for this school, I am glad that so many have an opinion about my first question. I'd like to hear answers to my second question. If your child has taken AP exams, I see someone did that  in 7th grade here, how did you prepare, and how did you prepare your kids for it. I agree, exam taking should be part of of their lives so they are exposed to tests like this. Part of that would be to see how my kids do with tests... so far there is no problem, they are great readers, they need practice with writing.

 

My thoughts with APs are mainly saving 10k-40k depending on what school my kids get into, I talk about US History because it's a love we have for it.

 

Mrs. Q.

My kids have had no interest in any of the history exams, so I don't have experience preparing for those exams.  To prepare for the ones that they have taken, I have them complete multiple choice questions and FRQ's from the exam material released by the College Board.  I review their FRQs with them to make sure that they are including everything that the grading rubric requires in order to maximize their total points.

[regentrude]

 I agree, exam taking should be part of of their lives so they are exposed to tests like this

 

Why on earth?

[daijobu]

My kids and I (and DH) love taking tests.  Seriously, that's what we do for fun around at home.  So anyway.

 

I don't know much about Basis, but AP US history sounds like a shockingly difficult exam to start with. I did some research and found that AP computer science A is the easiest AP exam, so why not start with something easy?  My girls had been studying python for a few years and were reasonably competent with basic programming: loops, data structures, OOP.  All they needed was to learn the Java-specific stuff and they were good to go with their first AP exams in 8th grade.  It was an an easy exam for both of them, raised their confidence and demystified the whole AP thing.  Now they are no big deal and we don't even really celebrate them, much more than going on reddit to see what the latest AP memes are.  (They are always funny.)  

 

HTH!  

 

[Arcadia]

My thoughts with APs are mainly saving 10k-40k depending on what school my kids get into, I talk about US History because it's a love we have for it.

My family's reasons for taking AP exams in middle school are not for potential college savings and my kids were in public school. My DS11 did his first AP exam as a 6th grader because my DS12 was taking his first two AP exams and so DS11 would have DS12 in the same exam room for AP Computer Science A. My DS12 is very independent while my DS11 prefers handholding for the first time then he is independent subsequently.

 

When we originally thought about AP exams in middle school, it is because DS12 wants to go to B&M high school for the social aspects. So we were hoping to check off math and physics so that he doesn't need to take high school math and physics at the assigned public high school and can take an outside class (we pay) in college math and physics instead.

 

Last year we tour a few east coast Canadian universities while on vacation. Their entrance requirements is much less subjects than US. My kids are fascinated by not having to check so many boxes as well as by the direct admission to whatever they want to major in. So my husband now thinks of AP exams as meeting overseas universities requirements more than about meeting US colleges requirements. We are permanent residents status here and we have no relatives here as well. If anything happen to us, we have close relatives overseas who can host our kids and put them in decent commuter universities. 4 to 5 AP exams is what these non-selective overseas universities are looking for from students applying from US.

 

My kids use the Edhesive AP Computer Science A course and then the Barron's test prep book to prep. We also went over the FRQs from CollegeBoard website. My kids like programming so that makes it a suitable first choice for DS11.

 

DS12 took the Art of Problem Solving calculus online class and then we prep for the AP Calculus BC exam using again CollegeBoard's FRQs and Barron's test prep book. The timing was more of when he would take and finish the AoPS calculus course. I was estimating 8th grade initially but he decided to finish intermediate algebra, introduction to geometry and precalculus in two years instead of three.

 

My contribution is only with going over test prep with my kids. My husband's contribution is paying for everything. My husband didn't care if our kids didn't do well for their first AP exams. He just want our kids to have no test anxiety. We aren't aiming for the National AP scholar award so the stress level isn't there.

 

If test taking skills on a national level are what you are aiming for, your children can take the SAT and ACT early by doing mail in registration.

 

Overall we make choices based on the kids we have and it really is hard to plan so far ahead. We let our kids decide in March what AP exams they want to take (if any) in May. When March comes around, my kids knew whether they are just not interested in the exam or they want to take it and see how they score. The two private test centers near to us have a March deadline for registration so we don't have a need to decide early.

 

ETA:

Basis independent school buses actually has a route which has a stop near my home which was why we toured the school.

 

ETA:

We have relatives very near RMIT (Melbourne, AU) and if anything happen to us, RMIT doesn't require AP scores from international students, just SAT or ACT.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Arcadia

[wapiti]

My familyMy DS11 did his first AP exam as a 6th grader 

...

DS12 took the Art of Problem Solving calculus online class and then we prep for the AP Calculus BC exam using again CollegeBoard's FRQs and Barron's test prep book.

I think we should add the caveat for OP that your kids are not typical but quite extraordinary even among gifted kids.

[Arcadia]

I think we should add the caveat for OP that your kids are not typical but quite extraordinary even among gifted kids.

I assume the OP knows her kids strengths and weaknesses though. I would get meltdowns from my kids if we try for US history and we would probably check that box (most likely through SAT US history) somehow in 11th/12th grade.

[madteaparty]

I think we should add the caveat for OP that your kids are not typical but quite extraordinary even among gifted kids.

This is worth emphasizing again.

My DS's absolute first choice is also an overseas university. They want 5 AP in area of interest with a score of 5. They specifically state SAT2 tests not good enough. So because DS needs a score of 5, we are holding off doing APs even in areas he is somewhat strong in. (Though the added caveat is that my DS's "strong" means just slightly above average, not "take AP in 6th grade" strong :) he is doing DE before he takes relevant AP. Which seems backwards but here we are.)

Edited August 11, 2017 by madteaparty

[Arcadia]

What is funny is that I don't think anyone in this thread knows the OP or her kids in real life yet we seems to be discouraging her. For all we know OP's kids might be more than capable of handling the APUSH in 8th grade.

 

Anyway here are some interesting statistics and non-BASIS articles about taking AP exams in middle school. You can calculate the very low percentages of middle school kids taking AP exams if you want to.

 

A 2016 news article Atlanta 11-year-old crushes AP exam

"When Buckhead resident Dean Cureton scored a 5 on the Advanced Placement Calculus BC exam in May, the highest possible score for any AP test, he joined select company.

 

Dean, an 11-year-old rising seventh-grader at Westminster in Buckhead, may be one of the youngest students to earn a 5 on an AP exam.

...

According to an online summary report on the AP exams taken in 2015, the last year the College Board had available data on the tests, 118,707 students took the Calculus BC exam, but only 64 pupils listed as in the eighth grade or lower took it.

...

In 2015 nearly 2.5 million students took an AP exam, but only 6,639 were listed as being in the eighth grade or lower.

...

In his research on young students who got a 5 on an AP math exam, Pete said most of them are the son or daughter of a math professor who taught the subject to his or her children since they were very young." http://www.mdjonline.com/neighbor_newspapers/northside_sandy_springs/atlanta--year-old-crushes-ap-exam/article_096e60ba-5e7c-11e6-9a0d-4bad5f1f56fb.html

 

A 2007 news article How a Virtual AP Course Changed Her Son

"Matthew got a B from the Apex Learning online teacher. He was thrilled that the AP testing room at Herndon High School buzzed with the news that a middle school kid was taking the exam, and even happier when he got his test score -- a 4 on a 5-point scale.

...

Allen said she is not suggesting that middle school students should take AP courses, although, "given what it did for Matt, I am not entirely sure why."" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/25/AR2007092500549.html

 

My DS's absolute first choice is also an overseas university. They want 5 AP in area of interest with a score of 5.

The bulk of our relatives who would be willing to be guardians are in Australia and I don't think the non-selective universities there would mind AP scores of 4 from international students. We do have friends who would help in Europe but we aren't looking at schools as selective as LSE. My husband is also all too willing to pay for retakes :lol: (I'm having a slow Friday afternoon at the library while my kids are reading which means I am web surfing out of boredom)

 

ETA:

AP SCORE DISTRIBUTIONS FOR SPECIFIC STUDENT GRADE-LEVEL GROUPS

https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/research/2016/2016-Score-Dist-by-Grade-Level.pdf

Edited August 11, 2017 by Arcadia

[wapiti]

I think the giant, flashing caution signs apply to the idea of APUSH in 8th grade as a long-term goal, as opposed to a short-term solution for an exceptional 8th grader desiring a history challenge.  

 

For OP:  while some colleges may accept a 3 on the APUSH exam for credit, many selective colleges will require at least a 4.  Only 30% of a pool comprised almost entirely of 11th graders score a 4 or 5.  (See, e.g., Is AP US History hard?)

 

This older thread might be helpful:  9th grade--which AP courses is it okay or normal to take?

[Roadrunner]

I don't think we are discouraging but just pointing out that kids who do well on AP exams as middle schoolers often have very high IQ. I bet a lot of those kids are DYS kids, like your boys. Maybe OP's kids are also in that category, but if they aren't, I really wouldn't commit a kid to hours and hours of work to push something so early when they can just wait and do it successfully in high school. There is no rush unless you are ready, and very few will be ready at that age.

[G5052]

Clearly some kids thrive in that environment, or the school wouldn't continue.

 

Mine are both in college now, but a high pressure environment was the LAST thing I wanted for high school. Yes, we did some AP's and dual enrollment, but I wanted them to digest what they were learning and build course-by-course. We did AP's and dual enrollment in  areas of strength and interest in 10-12th grade, not before. Developmentally there is a difference between 8th and 10th.  And I wanted them to come out emotionally balanced through the teen years.

 

Mine both did long papers their senior year, and IMHO that's entirely appropriate. I didn't go the thesis route because frankly I didn't want to have to find outside readers :).

 

I went to a high school that put very heavy pressure on the students for SAT and AP scores. It was actually written up in Time magazine for that. I had a friend commit suicide over a poor SAT. It was a pressure cooker. No way was I going to implement that at home.

[London]

My kids and I (and DH) love taking tests.  Seriously, that's what we do for fun around at home.  So anyway.

 

I don't know much about Basis, but AP US history sounds like a shockingly difficult exam to start with. I did some research and found that AP computer science A is the easiest AP exam, so why not start with something easy?  My girls had been studying python for a few years and were reasonably competent with basic programming: loops, data structures, OOP.  All they needed was to learn the Java-specific stuff and they were good to go with their first AP exams in 8th grade.  It was an an easy exam for both of them, raised their confidence and demystified the whole AP thing.  Now they are no big deal and we don't even really celebrate them, much more than going on reddit to see what the latest AP memes are.  (They are always funny.)  

 

HTH!  

 

Bumping an old thread: how did you find out that AP computer science A is one of the easier AP exams? Curious to know what order to introduce these to DS. Also, did you end up taking SAT II for the same subject at the same time as the AP exams? I get the sense that some schools want to see the SAT II even with a AP test? 

[daijobu]

Bumping an old thread: how did you find out that AP computer science A is one of the easier AP exams? Curious to know what order to introduce these to DS. Also, did you end up taking SAT II for the same subject at the same time as the AP exams? I get the sense that some schools want to see the SAT II even with a AP test? 

 

 AP CS used to be AB, but in 2009 they got rid of one semester of material and turned into AP CS A.  So now it's been dumbed down into a one semester class.  Also my daughters had a fairly solid programming preparation in python, so all they really needed to learn was the material that is idiosyncratic to Java. 

 

I judge AP bio and AP chemistry to cover a lot of varied material.  I judge the 2 AP English classes and APUSH to require a certain maturity and facility with timed essay writing that I think my daughters needed more time to develop.  AP physics requires calculus of course, so I needed to wait until they were taking that concurrently.  

 

Some colleges may require a subject test or two, so if you are applying to one of those colleges, it makes sense to take the subject test at the same time.  Colleges generally do not require AP exams.  The good news is that the subject tests are only an hour and all multiple choice, so it doesn't add much more work if you are already prepping for AP.  But you do want to take care because sometimes it will cover material that isn't on the AP.  (This is true for chemistry.)

 

FYI, I think AP HUG is also considered easy, but we just weren't interested in that one.  

 

HTH!

[London]

 AP CS used to be AB, but in 2009 they got rid of one semester of material and turned into AP CS A.  So now it's been dumbed down into a one semester class.  Also my daughters had a fairly solid programming preparation in python, so all they really needed to learn was the material that is idiosyncratic to Java. 

 

I judge AP bio and AP chemistry to cover a lot of varied material.  I judge the 2 AP English classes and APUSH to require a certain maturity and facility with timed essay writing that I think my daughters needed more time to develop.  AP physics requires calculus of course, so I needed to wait until they were taking that concurrently.  

 

Some colleges may require a subject test or two, so if you are applying to one of those colleges, it makes sense to take the subject test at the same time.  Colleges generally do not require AP exams.  The good news is that the subject tests are only an hour and all multiple choice, so it doesn't add much more work if you are already prepping for AP.  But you do want to take care because sometimes it will cover material that isn't on the AP.  (This is true for chemistry.)

 

FYI, I think AP HUG is also considered easy, but we just weren't interested in that one.  

 

HTH!

 

Thank you! I could read your posts for hours. They are an education in and of themselves.

[snowbeltmom]

Bumping an old thread: how did you find out that AP computer science A is one of the easier AP exams? Curious to know what order to introduce these to DS. Also, did you end up taking SAT II for the same subject at the same time as the AP exams? I get the sense that some schools want to see the SAT II even with a AP test?

Many times, the "easier" AP is going to depend on the student's strengths. There are a handful of colleges that require SAT II exams, although the number of colleges requesting these tests seems to be declining every year. The prevailing wisdom is that the student should take the SAT II when he has completed the highest level in that topic. It is not unusual for kids to take a science subject test at the conclusion of the science AP class. The one exception that I can think of is that the student should take the Math Level II subject test at the conclusion of precalc. Also, the Physics Subject Test used to align pretty well with the AP Physics B syllabus. The Physics Subject Test does not align as well with the new AP Physics syllabus.