How do you respond to this? (kids and computers)

[Janeway]

This is actually really ticking me off. And I always feel caught in what to say. I know, I know..in the end, I am the parent and what I say goes. But I would also like to have a better response than the extreme of saying "because I am the parent and I say so" to "oh, well, let me beg you to understand." There MUST be a middle ground!

 

I was up a lot during the night again taking care of baby. I slept until 8:30am maybe. I got up and did a little bit of cleaning and ate breakfast. I fed the younger children. I checked my email, checked job listings. My husband said he needed a different computer because he is having trouble with his and is trying to learn something. I did research online and sent out some emails to see if anyone has a spare to loan (a few people did). And I played a video game for a little while. I also read the news and called a relative. I folded laundry and read books to kids and talked to my husband about his trip and so on.

 

Meanwhile, my 12 and 15 yr olds were up when I got up and I think they have been up since 7am. Around 11:30am I said they had to get off and do something different. They did. And then 5 minutes later, both jumped back on. I gave them each something specific to do that was not bad-asked them to build a car track with little brother. So it was something not so chore-like. Nope. They jumped back on their computers. Now it is almost 3pm. I want to take the computers away for the rest of the weekend. 12 yr old does not even really read. He calls it a punishment every time I take away the computer. He is completely addicted to the point of wanting to drop out of everything he used to enjoy. He CAN read, he just won't really. Every time I take away the computer, I get "but you are on" and "but dad is on" and so on. It is NOT the same!!! I feel like these two are becoming punks, emotionally stunted punks addicted to the computers and unable to function in life away from the computers. Today, I am collecting up the computers. And now, I will hear, until they get them back "how much longer are we grounded?" and I will say "you are not grounded, these are just limits and you already used your computer time" and then five minutes later "NOW how much longer are we grounded?"

 

Suggestions? Other than telling me I am an awful parent.

[Night Elf]

Well, FWIW, you can't make a person a reader. My DH just recently told me he was surprised that as much as he and I read, none of our 3 children are readers for pleasure. My girls used to be on the computer a lot when they were teenagers but neither spend a lot of time on them now. Well, youngest dd uses her at college to watch tv shows at night before bed. DS, OTOH, is a computer freak. It used to bother me because it seemed like a waste of time but he hasn't liked to read since about middle school and he doesn't like to watch tv. He went through a stage where he played a lot of video games, both on game consoles and his PC. He doesn't play as much anymore. What he does is read. There are a couple of gaming sites he likes to read but he spends a lot of time just reading about various things like politics, history and science. So although he doesn't read books, he's reading something and he likes to talk to us about what he's learning. There just isn't anything else for him to do, honestly.

 

One thing we used to do, stopped for some reason, was play board games as a family. We even got a couple of cooperative games so it was all of us as a team trying to beat the game. We enjoyed that. You could have a game night. That doesn't solve the every day problem, but it's something else to do for a while.

[regentrude]

I would not impose arbitrary rules suddenly and take computers away because you did not like the amount of time they spent on the computer today.

If it is important to you to limit computer use, I would establish consistent rules for computer use: for example, after school work, one hour of exercise, chores, and an hour of reading, and I would also explain WHY I find this important. 

 

I consider it extremely important that the kids know exactly what to expect and why there are certain rules.

 

We had some time when my DS was using the computer too much for my taste. I insisted that he spend enough time on exercise and that school work was completed, but I did not impose limits on what he did in his actual free time. I did, however, work with him to find other things to do. On weekends, we always spent one day outside as a family, so that helped. Eventually, the problem went away when he discovered a sport he was passionate about.

 

I would also discuss with them what they use the computer for. "Computer use" is not a helpful term - it is just a tool that can be used for various purposes, some more productive than others. Are they playing video games? Are they reading about a topic they are interested in? (reading does not have to be just books). Do they use the computer to connect and chat with their friends? Are they writing stories?

My way of addressing the computer issue depended very much on what they used it for. When my very introverted DS was 12, the computer was a good tool for him to interact with friends, and I was actually very glad to hear him chat with his friends online, because I had concerns about him being isolated. That is something I would not have restricted. For my DD, the computer's primary function was to communicate with friends - a very normal need for teens.

ETA: The computer has not made them "emotionally stunted"; on the contrary, by providing more opportunities to interact with friends, the computer had a positive effect on my son's emotional development.

 

Likewise, I would not restrict using a computer for any creative pursuit, or for researching information in  field of interest.

 

So, what exactly are your sons doing on the computer? Can you have a conversation about this to find out which needs their computer use serves? That, to me, would be the starting point of any conversation about limiting computer use.

 

Btw, building a track with little brother can count as a chore for a (pre)teen.

Edited February 4, 2017 by regentrude

[Heathermomster]

So you love your chidren and don't wish for them to be emotionally stunted punks?

 

Your overwhelming love and motherly instincts compel you to take the computers away. Tell them you could not possibly live without honoring your basic instints and fulfilling your motherly duty to protect them. Tell them it's ok, and they can thank-you later.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

First, could you all do something together as a family on weekends?  Board games or tennis or something?  Do they have friends that could come over and hang out?

 

Also, once on, it is hard to get back off of a computer again if they don't feel there is anything else interesting to do or that has them fired up.   If there are chores you want them to do maybe you could have them do those first before they are allowed on the computer.  It would help out the family, give them a sense of purpose and then the computer could be used as down time after helping out.

 

FWIW, I was allowed to have Saturdays as my down days.  I could watch TV or play with the kids in the neighborhood or read or just hang out in my room.  I didn't have a computer but if I had I would probably have been on it.  I needed Saturday to unwind from the rest of the week.  I appreciated that Mom and Dad gave me that time.  Maybe your kids really need some unwind time where they can just be free to do things they want to do (within reason), whether those things have specific value or not.

 

Maybe the whole family could go walking, too, to get everyone some exercise and have some healthy family bonding time.  

 

On a side note, computers can be awfully appealing.  This is going to be hard to combat so a head on fight without consistency of rules for when and how long use is acceptable is probably not going to net much besides resentment.  The computer can stimulate the brain, be entertaining, present interesting puzzles to solve, interesting things to read, interesting people to interact with, etc.  It is more interactive than watching TV and can actually be beneficial in reasonable doses.  What if you provided them with computer based activities that have some educational value?  Would that be more acceptable?

 

Maybe there is something else, a hobby or something they could get involved in that would give them something to do on the weekend for fun and detox time?

 

Also, it is very hard to self regulate for many kids. Perhaps set up a very specific schedule for when they can be on and create a kill switch so internet access is gone during the time they are supposed to be off.   Lay out a very clear schedule, don't do it in anger, and expect significant push back.  Don't react.  Just be matter of fact (whatever you may be feeling inside).  This is what we are doing, this is why, and here are some things you might consider doing instead.  

 

Also, if you genuinely want them off the computer on a regular basis, is there something else they could be involved in consistently that matters to them?  A club?  Extracurricular?  Sports?  Taking away the computer won't inspire them to love reading.  Forcing them to read now, at this age, when they don't want to, while taking away something they do like is likely to inspire a feeling that reading is a punishment.  It won't encourage a love of reading.  At this age what might inspire a love of reading is having purpose for the reading, maybe for an area of interest.  Not everyone reads just for fun.  If they don't particularly like reading but they have to read during the week then maybe they see weekends as their down time to not have to read.  

 

What if you sit and talk with them, explain your concerns, and ask them to brainstorm with you on other things that they might be interested in doing?

[bolt.]

Try saying, "Screen time is not good for brains, especially growing brains. Sometimes I use it to do my job, but playtime is different. I'm not going to allow it any more. It feels fun, but it's hurting you. I'm going to make sure you have less daily screen time."

 

Make some rules (Mine is that "you may ask for screen time" anytime after 2:30, if your important things of the day are done, and your spaces and belongings are under control.) Tell them, with confidence, the new way you are doing screens.

 

Protests can be expected: be sympathetic.

 

Answer all questions with a variation of, "Because it's my job to look after you, and the previous plan wasn't good for your brain development." (Or, "Because adult brains are no longer developing, and because adults are working not playing.)

 

If they ask how long they are grounded for, look confused and say, "Grounded? I don't remember grounding you. What did I ground you for?" When they clarify, affirm that the new rules about screen time will last forever.

 

Be prepared to lock up or make it so they can't get at screens without permission.

[regentrude]

Try saying, "Screen time is not good for brains, especially growing brains. Sometimes I use it to do my job, but playtime is different. I'm not going to allow it any more. It feels fun, but it's hurting you. I'm going to make sure you have less daily screen time."

 

I find lumping all computer activity into "screen time" and calling it "not god for the brain" simplistic and unsubstantiated.

 

This weekend, I have used the computer for non-work related tasks for quite a few hours to: listen to NPR, correspond with friends, watch a performance of King Lear, write poetry, read poetry, check the weather forecast, read the news, discuss things with people on this board.

Which of these activities are "hurting the brain"? Why is doing activity x on the computer vs with another tool detrimental?

 

Teens need a better explanation.

Edited February 4, 2017 by regentrude

[MomatHWTK]

My friends all say computer time is bad so you have to stop now. 

[Janeway]

I keep telling them every day that it is a two hour limit, with the exception of when they are on before school. And every day, they violate it.

[regentrude]

I keep telling them every day that it is a two hour limit, with the exception of when they are on before school. And every day, they violate it.

 

If you have a "rule", why don't you enforce it? It is pretty pointless to say there is a limit if you don't actually do anything to enforce.

Why do you let them get away with not obeying the rule?

Edited February 4, 2017 by regentrude

[Kalypso]

Enforcing computer rules is so hard with a houseful of kids and multiple devices. We have been trying to figure out a way to do it that makes it easier. My dh gets so irritated with the kids being on the computer or device too much that he either takes a device away or turns off the internet to the entire house. This, of course, is a major inconvenience for some of us.

 

My dh bought a Luma network router a couple of weeks ago, and so far, it has been the answer to our problem.

 

You control the network with an app that allows you to add individual users and their devices. You can add time limits per person such as 3 hours per day or put time restrictions on it for use at specific times. You can pause the internet per person or for the entire house. It also allows you to put content restrictions such as PG-13 on it. 

 

I don't know if there are better or cheaper things out there to help with this, but my kids need limits or else they will keep going back to the computer when they could be or should be doing other things. I wish you luck in finding something that helps with your situation. 

[TeenagerMom]

For me it would really depend on what they are doing.  My son spends a LOT of time behind a screen and I was really getting upset about his usage too.  Then I started reading the reports that Microsoft sends telling me what he's doing on the computer.  He spends a lot of time reading and writing fan fiction.  He is using Youtube to learn German and Japanese (all in his free time).  He spends time playing some of his favorite collaborative computer games and he reads downloaded comic books.

 

So if you look at what he is actually spending his time on.....

 

He's reading and writing.

He's coding.

He's learning to be multilingual.

He's reading some more.

And about 10 hours a week, he's learning teamwork and social interactions via his gaming.

 

Worthwhile pursuits in my opinion. Many of these activities COULD be done without the use of a screen, but they would require him leaving the house and having access to those pursuits in other formats, which isn't as easy as it seems when we are busy doing our schoolwork, working, running a homeschool group, etc.

 

If you feel that strongly about the screens, just enforce the rules you lay down.  They will get over it eventually.

 

[TeenagerMom]

Oh, and I will say, it IS the same from their point of view, when they see their parents with their phones, computers, etc all the time.  If they don't see parents picking up books and reading, committing time to other hobbies, etc besides just their household duties of cleaning, parenting, etc....it does appear that all the parent is doing is spending their time on the internet too.

 

My other suggestion would be that the whole HOUSE make an effort to start limiting screen time also.  Set times of the day to do research, emails, etc and spend the rest of the time pursuing other activities.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm on the computer a lot.  So is DH.  I can't honestly tell my kids that's different.  It's not. 

 

If you want to distance yourself from that being a regular part of your family's life, you might have to force yourself to be on the computer less and do stuff with them.  I don't mean you necessarily have to entertain them all the time.  Just from their POV...it really is the same.  And it IS the same.  If DH is using it for work or study...ok that might be different.  But otherwise, nope, it's the same.

 

I don't do that because I don't have a problem with the way we roll.  But the things I do have a problem with, I make an effort to model what I want. 

 

 

 

 

[FriedClams]

I keep telling them every day that it is a two hour limit, with the exception of when they are on before school. And every day, they violate it.

Then I would say the consequence isn't big enough. If it were me, it's warn them, let them know what the consequence is (I take away the router for a week), then follow through.

 

Yes, they will whine. Yes, there will be sad apologies. Tough. I don't negotiate. (I do give grace, but honestly, it sounds like you're being played and ignored.)

 

I would also highly recommend Disney Circle. Super easy to install. $99/one time. Assign devises to people and set time limits/filters/bed times. But, if it's an issue of character (sneaking, lying, using your phone to access the limits, etc then the Circle won't help.)

[Tanaqui]

Instead of "two hour limit", why not set a designated time? "You can go on for fun between the hours of 7 and 9, if and only if you have completed your chores and schoolwork. If you're on the computer for schoolwork, it will be supervised so I know that you're doing your schoolwork." That would be a lot easier to enforce than just an time limit.

 

But if you're going to set a rule like this, then I strongly suggest that you and your husband follow the same rule, or a highly similar one. Your kids are right. There is no difference between you and your husband goofing off on the computer, and them goofing off on the computer.

 

I also suggest that you have something for them to do in their newly-enforced "no computer" time. If their options are "computer or be bored", well, what would you pick? You might frame this as your whole family needs to be more active and spend more time together, so your whole family is going to do a board game night twice a week, is going to go out for a run every afternoon, your whole family is going to spend some time every day learning a new hobby of each individual's choosing.... I mean, whatever works for you and your family.

[Wheres Toto]

We tried time limits and they didn't work at all around here.  If I didn't see the exact moment that jumped on, they wouldn't note the time and we'd be guessing.  It made it pretty ineffective and prone to arguments.  Plus, I had to keep track of the time and unless a timer was set to go off (and stopped when they jumped off for any reason), I would be involved with something else, and forget to kick them off.

 

We changed to a different plan and so far it's worked well.  We've had this plan for a few years now.  It still requires some enforcement, of course.  They won't always voluntarily get off, but it's pretty automatic at this point so all we have to say is "it's 7 o'clock".

 

Weekdays they get computer time from 4pm to 7pm max.  4 days a week we are out of the house from 4pm to 5pm for activities so the effective time is cut down.   This is contingent on having finished school (without whining), one hour of reading (part of school), one hour of screen free quiet time, one hour of physical activity (which is what those 4pm activities usually are), and any chores including their rooms being straightened up.  Computer time WILL be taken away if any of those are not done.  I have taken computer time away so they know I will do it.

 

Other screens - they can watch videos during lunch, before school in the morning, and after dinner.  At bedtime all screens go off and they can read if they want to stay up later.  They have tablets that they bring in the car or if we're waiting somewhere.

 

Weekends they may get more depending on what we have going on, the weather, and time of year.  The MAX they get on weekends is from when they wake up until noon, then 4pm to 7pm.

 

ETA: At times we do have everybody off computers at the same time but both Dh and I do paid work on our computers, plus I have to set up lesson plans for 4-H.  This DOES make it different.  Their job at this time is school.  My job and Dh's job require us to be on the computer.  My preferred leisure activity is reading.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Where's Toto?