If I love CLE math, will I like their LA?

[busymama7]

I know you can't possibly know the true answer to this fairly loaded question :)

 

I have homeschooled for 15 years.  I have 9 kids, age 2-almost 20.  I have learned a few things about myself in the process and one is that I need VERY laid out lessons for the core subjects that cover everything.

 

We used MUS for all the years up until this one.  We switched to CLE last summer and really and truly, I wish I had done it sooner.  We function very well with structured, straightforward daily lessons with clear instructions and goals each day.  We are now doing flash cards and speed drills daily so they are really learning their facts and I love the spiral introduction of the topics instead of the mastery approach of MUS.  I didn't think I would which is why I stuck with MUS so long but this is a great fit and I feel really good about how much progress they have made in math in such a short time. I love that CLE teaches so many life skills type math right in the program.  yes, I could teach my 6 year old to use a ruler without the lesson telling me to, but reality I WASN'T, unless or until it came up in life.  And that did happen, sort of, but with so many I just need it in the structure.

 

I am realizing that my brain is so tired and scattered from trying to keep up with all the needs of my family, that I really just need to be able to sit down and go through some one else's plan for the core subjects.  (I don't however do well with that approach for the content subjects)

 

I keep thinking I should just go to CLE LA and try it.  I'm am afraid we will end up hating it and it will be just too much. I looked at the placements tests for my 6th grade daughter and I'm not sure I could even pass level 500.  But it looks good and seems to really cover a lot of things that I am not, in fact, covering well.

 

Just looking for opinions and didn't want to bury this on my other long rambling thread ;)

 

[maize]

I think the only way to find out is to try.

 

Individual light units are inexpensive; if I were you I would order a few from different levels and give it a whirl.

[OneStepAtATime]

Agreeing with Maize, give the placement tests, and then order a couple of light units from each level they test into then give it a whirl.  If it works, fantastic, order more.  If not, then at least you didn't invest a massive amount of time and money.  Definitely don't place them too high, though.  Go by the placement test even if they place behind where you think they should be.  It can start certain concepts earlier than some other programs.  You don't want them to be floundering and discouraged.  

[rjand6more]

I have used CLE math and LA.  I have loved them both.  LA includes everything (spelling, composition, grammar(lots of diagramming...but I like diagramming.)  It's so nice to just move on without planning it out.  Some of my kids do really well with that plan.  DD9 HATED CLE LA(I loved it...)  But, alas...we switched to a more CM approach and he is much much happier.  LA was starting to take FOREVER.  And we were skipping their spelling.

 

So, I would give it a try and see what everyone thinks.:)

[Garga]

I used Rod and Staff and am now using CLE.  

 

I like CLE better than Rod and Staff because it's a workbook that the kids can work right in.  I think they're pretty comparable otherwise.

 

For CLE Grammar:  Last year we did an entire year's worth of light units in one year. I think it was too much.  I think that R&S and CLE go into some pretty esoteric elements of grammar.  Unless the student seems to be someone who wants to be an editor, I think it's too much.

 

For my 9th grader, we dropped off doing official grammar, except for a worksheet every 4 weeks.  For my 6th grader, I bought the year 6 CLE units, but I will have him do them over 6th and 7th grade--he will take 2 years to complete them.  And I don't feel the slightest bit bad about it.  My personal opinion is that it's too much and, honestly, unnecessary when there are soooo many other things I think are more pertinent for my students to learn.  There are only so many hours in a day.

 

The lessons are completely laid out for you.  You pick it up and go. My son tried to learn them by himself for a few weeks, but it's better if I'm walking him through the new lesson.  Then he does the review work himself.  (That's what I do for CLE math as well.)

 

NOTE:  There is a writing portion of CLE that's beyond the lightunits.  I think a lightunit or two might have a writing assignment, but most of the lightunits are grammar only.  There is a book to buy that's written to the teacher about writing and it includes ideas for assignments.  You'd need to figure out when to weave those into your lessons on your own.  The book is an easy read--I read it in a couple of hours.  That book is not open and go.  I was able to prepare the writing lessons I wanted to do over the summer, but I had to prepare how I wanted to run the lessons for myself.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Garga

[busymama7]

Agreeing with Maize, give the placement tests, and then order a couple of light units from each level they test into then give it a whirl. If it works, fantastic, order more. If not, then at least you didn't invest a massive amount of time and money. Definitely don't place them too high, though. Go by the placement test even if they place behind where you think they should be. It can start certain concepts earlier than some other programs. You don't want them to be floundering and discouraged.

Ok so that is something to consider. This would be for my daughter who is a very young sixth grader. She's already working behind in math. She is in 406 right now. I was hoping to place her at grade level in LA so she wouldn't feel bad again that she's "behind". She finds LA and diagraming and such pretty easy. Does the 601 book review everything like the math ones do?

 

The thing is I followed this advice with my 8 year old and we are still trying to accelerate thorough the 200s for math. Math is easy for him and I think we could have gone to the 300s but I was afraid he it would move too fast. Instead he's frustrated with so much that's way too easy.

 

So if I did go with 601 and went really really slow and went in detail over what is new, maybe she would be ok?

[busymama7]

I used Rod and Staff and am now using CLE.

 

I like CLE better than Rod and Staff because it's a workbook that the kids can work right in. I think they're pretty comparable otherwise.

 

For CLE Grammar: Last year we did an entire year's worth of light units in one year. I think it was too much. I think that R&S and CLE go into some pretty esoteric elements of grammar. Unless the student seems to be someone who wants to be an editor, I think it's too much.

 

For my 9th grader, we dropped off doing official grammar, except for a worksheet every 4 weeks. For my 6th grader, I bought the year 6 CLE units, but I will have him do them over 6th and 7th grade--he will take 2 years to complete them. And I don't feel the slightest bit bad about it. My personal opinion is that it's too much and, honestly, unnecessary when there are soooo many other things I think are more pertinent for my students to learn. There are only so many hours in a day.

 

The lessons are completely laid out for you. You pick it up and go. My son tried to learn them by himself for a few weeks, but it's better if I'm walking him through the new lesson. Then he does the review work himself. (That's what I do for CLE math as well.)

 

NOTE: There is a writing portion of CLE that's beyond the lightunits. I think a lightunit or two might have a writing assignment, but most of the lightunits are grammar only. There is a book to buy that's written to the teacher about writing and it includes ideas for assignments. You'd need to figure out when to weave those into your lessons on your own. The book is an easy read--I read it in a couple of hours. That book is not open and go. I was able to prepare the writing lessons I wanted to do over the summer, but I had to prepare how I wanted to run the lessons for myself.

And then after he finishes the 600s will you consider it done? Or stretch out the 700s too? There is a lot of very technical grammar in there that I can see. I still keep thinking there is something out there that is similar but not so much. Analytical grammar was too much for us too although I liked the Jr version.

 

The reason I didn't like R and S was the copying. I really like the small workbooks and the feelings of satisfaction when you are done :)

 

My other option would be to finish up Jr AG with her (we didn't finish it last year and left it to do ELTL this year which I would like to drop) and then piece together reading comp and vocabulary and such from other sources. She is also doing well with R and S spelling. I'm ok switching from that but am also really happy with it. I love the exercises and all the things it covers.

[busymama7]

I have used CLE math and LA. I have loved them both. LA includes everything (spelling, composition, grammar(lots of diagramming...but I like diagramming.) It's so nice to just move on without planning it out. Some of my kids do really well with that plan. DD9 HATED CLE LA(I loved it...) But, alas...we switched to a more CM approach and he is much much happier. LA was starting to take FOREVER. And we were skipping their spelling.

 

So, I would give it a try and see what everyone thinks.:)

Yeah she loves ELTL which is CM like. But we aren't even doing it as written and she says what she likes most is the Lit selections and the extra reading in the book.

[SFM]

Yeah she loves ELTL which is CM like. But we aren't even doing it as written and she says what she likes most is the Lit selections and the extra reading in the book.

 

What is ELTL?

[busymama7]

What is ELTL?

English Lessons Through Literature

 

It is a great program but for some reason it's just not jiving with us

[Garga]

And then after he finishes the 600s will you consider it done? Or stretch out the 700s too? There is a lot of very technical grammar in there that I can see. I still keep thinking there is something out there that is similar but not so much. Analytical grammar was too much for us too although I liked the Jr version.

 

The reason I didn't like R and S was the copying. I really like the small workbooks and the feelings of satisfaction when you are done :)

 

My other option would be to finish up Jr AG with her (we didn't finish it last year and left it to do ELTL this year which I would like to drop) and then piece together reading comp and vocabulary and such from other sources. She is also doing well with R and S spelling. I'm ok switching from that but am also really happy with it. I love the exercises and all the things it covers.

 

I'm not sure what we'll do in 8th grade.  I'll sort it out then.  If I had thought of taking longer to do books before this year, I'd have done book 6 in 5th and 6th grade and book 7 in 7th and 8th.  

 

As it is, not sure what I'll do.

 

Maaaaybe I'll have my son do the entire 7th grade CLE in 8th grade as a final farewell to grammar.  And we can skip a few things along the way.  I'll worry about that at the end of next year.   :)

 

 

The 601 book is NOT review as in math. 

 

 

What is ELTL?

 

English Lessons Through Literature

http://cathyduffyreviews.com/homeschool-reviews-core-curricula/composition-and-grammar/graded-language-arts-curricula/english-lessons-through-literature

 

 

 

 

It seems that grammar can either go overboard or underboard.  I think that R&S and CLE and Analytical Grammar are overboard for most people's needs.  We tried to make things more manageable and tried Easy Grammar one year, but it was a disaster for us.  The boys knew less than when they started.  There was no review and the worksheets were easy to figure out as a pattern.  You didn't really have to understand the material to get into a pattern of doing the worksheet.  They didn't retain a thing from that year.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Garga

[Garga]

English Lessons Through Literature

 

It is a great program but for some reason it's just not jiving with us

 

 

I was all gung ho for ELTL, but then started reading reviews that made me think it wasn't for us.  I think it's tricky to find a good grammar program that's not too weak or too over the top.

 

That's why we settled on CLE, but taking 2 years to do one year's worth of work.

[Paige]

CLE's LA is very morality/Mennonite Christianity focused. With the math it's easy to overlook but with the LA and Reading, it's a huge part of the curriculum. That could be a pro or con depending on your perspective, but it's not a guarantee that you'd like LA if you like Math.

 

Also, the grammar can be a little (lot) over the top and I found the focus on dictionary skills to be a little outdated.

[busymama7]

I'm not sure what we'll do in 8th grade.  I'll sort it out then.  If I had thought of taking longer to do books before this year, I'd have done book 6 in 5th and 6th grade and book 7 in 7th and 8th.  

 

As it is, not sure what I'll do.

 

Maaaaybe I'll have my son do the entire 7th grade CLE in 8th grade as a final farewell to grammar.  And we can skip a few things along the way.  I'll worry about that at the end of next year.   :)

 

 

The 601 book is NOT review as in math. 

 

 

 

English Lessons Through Literature

http://cathyduffyreviews.com/homeschool-reviews-core-curricula/composition-and-grammar/graded-language-arts-curricula/english-lessons-through-literature

 

 

 

 

It seems that grammar can either go overboard or underboard.  I think that R&S and CLE and Analytical Grammar are overboard for most people's needs.  We tried to make things more manageable and tried Easy Grammar one year, but it was a disaster for us.  The boys knew less than when they started.  There was no review and the worksheets were easy to figure out as a pattern.  You didn't really have to understand the material to get into a pattern of doing the worksheet.  They didn't retain a thing from that year.

 

That was my exact experience with Growing with Grammar.  My oldest completed all of level 3 perfectly but when asked to identify a noun or a verb he had no idea.  I was pretty sure he had just followed patterns.  I went to diagraming and editing on the board and that seemed ok enough for them but I am wanting something more direct and laid out for the younger set. 

[busymama7]

CLE's LA is very morality/Mennonite Christianity focused. With the math it's easy to overlook but with the LA and Reading, it's a huge part of the curriculum. That could be a pro or con depending on your perspective, but it's not a guarantee that you'd like LA if you like Math.

 

Also, the grammar can be a little (lot) over the top and I found the focus on dictionary skills to be a little outdated.

 

 

Thank you for this.  I was looking closely at the reading program and decided against it due to this issue.  We are Christian but I actually kinda prefer secular materials. 

 

[maize]

What about something like Spectrum workbooks?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0769653065/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1486089418&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=spectrum+language+arts+grade+6&dpPl=1&dpID=41UkpFHDTyL&ref=plSrch#sims-fbt-shipping-details_1486089444544

[maize]

They have reading and writing as well. I can't offer a review though.

[busymama7]

What about something like Spectrum workbooks?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0769653065/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1486089418&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=spectrum+language+arts+grade+6&dpPl=1&dpID=41UkpFHDTyL&ref=plSrch#sims-fbt-shipping-details_1486089444544

I keep looking at those. The LA one says its just for review/summer work but I'm not sure about that.

 

I have Jr AG 1/2 done for her so I'm leaning towards going back to that and adding in reading comprehension either with the spectrum book or with McCall-Crabbs test lessons in reading which I already have (but my older kids hated).

 

I would just be so much happier if I could find something that had everything.

[Paige]

Have you looked at Climbing to Good English? It's similar to CLE as far as the workbook format. I only used them in lower elementary school so I can't comment on the higher levels, but I liked it fairly well. It was adorable which was a big pro when I had little girls.

 

It's been a while, but I don't recall a heavy religious theme; I think it is from a religious publisher. I got tired of the dictionary skills with them too, but I don't know if it continues into the higher grades like CLE. It's cheap and very easy to implement.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Paige

[busymama7]

Have you looked at Climbing to Good English? It's similar to CLE as far as the workbook format. I only used them in lower elementary school so I can't comment on the higher levels, but I liked it fairly well. It was adorable which was a big pro when I had little girls.

 

It's been a while, but I don't recall a heavy religious theme; I think it is from a religious publisher. I got tired of the dictionary skills with them too, but I don't know if it continues into the higher grades like CLE. It's cheap and very easy to implement.

Thank you. I had forgotten about this one. I'm looking at it closely again

[prairiewindmomma]

Great minds think alike. I just bought the LA (300 and 600 levels).  I like it well enough in reviewing it. :)

[Vida Winter]

I like CLE LA but use it below grade level. They are serious about grammar and start early, so don't expect kids who haven't used it to jump in at grade level. Use the placement tests. They can catch up even if they start below their grade.

[Storygirl]

Ok so that is something to consider. This would be for my daughter who is a very young sixth grader. She's already working behind in math. She is in 406 right now. I was hoping to place her at grade level in LA so she wouldn't feel bad again that she's "behind". She finds LA and diagraming and such pretty easy. Does the 601 book review everything like the math ones do?

 

The thing is I followed this advice with my 8 year old and we are still trying to accelerate thorough the 200s for math. Math is easy for him and I think we could have gone to the 300s but I was afraid he it would move too fast. Instead he's frustrated with so much that's way too easy.

 

So if I did go with 601 and went really really slow and went in detail over what is new, maybe she would be ok?

 

DD14 used CLE LA levels 500 to 700. I would advise you NOT to place her in the 600 level to start. The 600 level is where previous CLE lovers abandon ship, because the expectations are very difficult, and it gets frustrating. A big part of the program is having the student mark up sentences, and there are so many instructions for every sentence that it was tedious. DD missed steps every time, because there were so many little details.

 

I suggested we find something else for 7th grade, but she wanted to use it again, so we did, and we found the 700 level to be easier.

 

I agree that CLE LA is rigorous. And it requires you as the instructor (or the student, if you feel comfortable) to check every lesson for errors, preferably daily. We found that the real learning experience was in correcting the mistakes.

 

Starting at the 500 level was doable but not easy. DD was always good at grammar, and it was challenging for her.

[Storygirl]

To answer the question in the title of your thread.....We loved CLE math. I did not love the LA. I appreciated it, as a former English major. DD plugged through it willingly.

 

However, after a year of using the 100 level with my younger children (I put all three of them in the same level and taught it to them instead of having them do it independently), I felt that it was too much at the lower levels.

 

And it did not have enough writing built into the light units. You would either need to use a separate writing program or add the extra CLE writing program to it (we did not ever use that but made other choices).

 

The spelling is by themes -- maybe all culinary words (just made up that category off the top of my head) one week, with a different grouping of words the next. My kids did better when learning spelling patterns, so I didn't like their spelling much.

 

And the LA light units do not include literature at all. You have to add something separate for that as well.

 

Which brings me to the CLE Reading program. We did not use the levels for the early grades, but I used 3rd grade with my youngers and 5th and 6th (I think) with my older. Loved it.

[Storygirl]

If I were really going to make a recommendation, I would say don't do CLE LA across the board for all of your children. If you think it might be a good fit for one, start with one child and see if you like the program. Some do. Some dislike it.

 

You don't really need that much grammar, though. It is WAY more detailed than the grammar my kids get in brick-and-mortar school. If you are overwhelmed with managing all of the pieces of school for so many kids (I was overwhelmed, and I only had 4), my advice is to pick a grammar program that is thorough but only takes a short time each day. Some people like something like Easy Grammar, but you could find additional options.

 

Make grammar a get-it-done part of your LA. And spend the bulk of your LA time on reading and writing instruction.

 

 

[Guest]

I don't know but I will say that my kid who loves cle math also loves cle la.

Eta, we are not Anabaptist and DS remembers Everything he learns in cle. Different strokes.

Edited February 3, 2017 by OKBud

[rjand6more]

CLE's LA is very morality/Mennonite Christianity focused. With the math it's easy to overlook but with the LA and Reading, it's a huge part of the curriculum. That could be a pro or con depending on your perspective, but it's not a guarantee that you'd like LA if you like Math.

 

Also, the grammar can be a little (lot) over the top and I found the focus on dictionary skills to be a little outdated.

 

 

Yes.  I forgot about the dictionary skills.  Important to learn.  Way too much in CLE.

 

We use ELTL with ds9.  He has to look things up and is learning how, but not a focus.  I started skipping some of those sections in CLE.

[SamanthaCarter]

I like CLE LA because it helps me feel like I'm covering my bases so that we can do other sort of spotty (need or want based) LA-related stuff and not worry about holes. Ds does an IEW writing class, so we skip writing assignments. I can supplement with copywork, cursive, grammar, spelling, writing as needed, but don't have to try to work out an entire LA program on my own. And if some days all they do LA-related is their CLE lesson - great! That's really freeing to me. 

[SamanthaCarter]

About placement, I didn't think my Ds could handle the grammar and diagramming for the 500 level for 5th grade, so I got him a short one-semester course on diagramming to bring him up to speed (Step-by-Step Grammar I). After he finished that, he's doing just fine on 500. He won't finish the full 500 course this year because of that, but that's okay. 

 

ETA: caveat to my two posts. I am not an experienced homeschooler. :)

Edited February 3, 2017 by SamanthaCarter

[blue plaid]

I'll throw in that my daughter did Jr. Analytical grammar last year and made a smooth transition to CLE 600 level grammar this year. So I think that can be a reasonable path. (She is in 6th grade, if that matters.)