Quality algebra in workbook format

[Janeway]

Having trouble with what to do here. Son did great with Singapore Math. I sat with him with the textbook portion and we did all of that on a dry erase board or paper. Then he did the workbook himself, and there was plenty of space in the workbook to write his work. 

 

As soon as we got to algebra, I could tell he knew how to do it, but would flip out over writing the problems out. I like teaching math so I do not particularly want any sort of video program. I also do not want to spend tons of money on this. I like how Derek Owens looks and plan to use it next year for my child in preCal, but do not want to pay for that for algebra as I am pretty good at teaching it.

 

Is there such a thing as a good workbook program for algebra? I do not mind switching between publishers for algebra and then algebra 2 as long as algebra 1 is solid enough to lead to the algebra 2 book.

 

Edited to add: also, he says he wants to be an engineer when he is older. He is a 7th grader now.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Janeway

[EKS]

I just copied the problems for my son up until this year. It doesn't take long.

[regentrude]

Learning to write out problems correctly is an important part of algebra mastery.

Most of the writing is where the actual work of problem solving occurs, so I cannot really envision a workbook scenario that would not compromise the conceptual complexity.

[3andme]

CLE's Algebra I program has 10 worktexts and is a very solid Algebra course. They provide enough workspace for the majority of the problems but not all. Unfortunately, they do not have an Algebra II course available at this time.

[KathyBC]

I've typed them up in the past, leaving as much space as wanted. It didn't take long once it was set up.

[EKS]

Learning to write out problems correctly is an important part of algebra mastery.

Most of the writing is where the actual work of problem solving occurs, so I cannot really envision a workbook scenario that would not compromise the conceptual complexity.

 

I believe that Janeway is talking about copying problems from the text, not writing out work.

[foxbridgeacademy]

A Fresh Approach is a worktext.

[regentrude]

I believe that Janeway is talking about copying problems from the text, not writing out work.

 

If the problem is given as an equation that just needs to be solved, writing down that equation is the starting point of the solution, because that's what is being manipulated. That is one line out of many, and I fail to see what the issue is.

 

If the problem is a word problem, I see no need to copy the problem from the book at all; the student can start by making a sketch, write down his variable definitions (which are part of the solution), set up the equations, and start solving.

 

The workbooks I have seen for other things would not, typically, provide sufficient space to teach students to write algebra correctly and neatly: one equation per line, equal signs aligned underneath, enough space between lines. A complex problem takes an entire page to write out. 

Edited January 27, 2017 by regentrude

[KathyBC]

If the problem is given as an equation that just needs to be solved, writing down that equation is the starting point of the solution, because that's what is being manipulated. That is one line out of many, and I fail to see what the issue is.

 

That is the rational, adult way of viewing the situation, especially when something is not particularly difficult for that adult. :-) Some kids need a boost to get started. Mine transitioned as they got older, as I suspect most do.

[regentrude]

That is the rational, adult way of viewing the situation, especially when something is not particularly difficult for that adult. :-) Some kids need a boost to get started. Mine transitioned as they got older, as I suspect most do.

 

I deal daily with college students who have never learned how to properly write their algebra. Not just a few, but a very large proportion of them (and they are all STEM majors, so I don't even see the students who are actually struggling with, or avoiding math.) They're the strong math students, and the way many of them put math on paper would not have been tolerated by my 6th grade teacher.

 

Based on this experience, I consider it very important to teach this correctly immediately from the beginning. Also, math gets a lot easier if the student writes the problem out neatly.

 

ETA: I just got done with four hours of help sessions where I saw so much sloppy work with random equations scribbled all over the pages. I wish those students had been taught proper habits in middle school.

Edited January 27, 2017 by regentrude

[Julie of KY]

At my home learning to write out problems evolved from doing ALL of AoPS orally to learning how to write out olympiad and preolympiad proofs and then working backwards to how to write out simple problems. I was working with a severely dysgraphic child who could "see" the solution, but learning to write it out was a whole different story. I did not hold him back in math while he was still learning to write out the problems. The way I teach math to the rest of my kids and ones I tutor is influenced by how my oldest learned math.

 

My second just wrote out everything like a good student that showed all his work.  :glare:

 

With my daughter, I sit by her side and do almost everything together. We do some of it orally and other problems she writes out. She essentially uses a new piece of paper for every new problem. 

 

For some students, I believe learning how to write out the solutions is almost a completely different course than teaching the math concepts. For some, they learn concepts and solution writing at the same pace and it makes everyone's life easier. For others, I think you have to separate the two - teaching concepts and teaching how to write solutions are both very important, but might be learned at different rates for some.

[EKS]

If the problem is given as an equation that just needs to be solved, writing down that equation is the starting point of the solution, because that's what is being manipulated. That is one line out of many, and I fail to see what the issue is.

 

If the problem is a word problem, I see no need to copy the problem from the book at all; the student can start by making a sketch, write down his variable definitions (which are part of the solution), set up the equations, and start solving.

 

The workbooks I have seen for other things would not, typically, provide sufficient space to teach students to write algebra correctly and neatly: one equation per line, equal signs aligned underneath, enough space between lines. A complex problem takes an entire page to write out. 

 

I don't understand how copying an equation out of a textbook onto a piece of paper is depriving a student of problem solving practice.  I did it to make our days go just a tad more smoothly.   

 

I agree that it doesn't make sense to copy word problems.  I just left blank spaces for those.  In fact I left lots of blank space everywhere, much more than any normal person would ever need.  I also left the reverse side blank.  We used a lot of paper.  

[Tenaj]

I don't understand how copying an equation out of a textbook onto a piece of paper is depriving a student of problem solving practice.  I did it to make our days go just a tad more smoothly.   

 

I agree that it doesn't make sense to copy word problems.  I just left blank spaces for those.  In fact I left lots of blank space everywhere, much more than any normal person would ever need.  I also left the reverse side blank.  We used a lot of paper.  

 

One of my kids just seems to have a mental blockade set up that makes him see copying the equation from a book as a waste of time.    He still had to solve the equation and set up the solution, but for some reason, having a worksheet with the problem and a work space allowed him mentally to avoid what he saw as busy work.  Without it, he would try to solve the problem mentally without a clear equation on his paper.  With it, he could set everything up correctly and show a solution.    

[daijobu]

 

 

ETA: I just got done with four hours of help sessions where I saw so much sloppy work with random equations scribbled all over the pages. I wish those students had been taught proper habits in middle school.

 

 

I just tutored a 3rd grade girl in BA.  After a few weeks she has started using equal signs!   :hurray:  Prior she's been just scribbling numbers at weird angles as if ashamed to write anything at all.  I'll be sending her your way in about 10 years.  

[fourisenough]

When this question is asked, as it is from time to time, it seems no one really answers the question, but rather piles on to the OP about how she doesn't really need/want what she's asking for.

 

I think there is a legitimate need for upper level math books in workbook format, whether because of LD's, younger students ready for algebra, or any number of scenarios. I get what Regentrude et. al. are saying regarding the need to be weaned off the workbook format, but it would be great if such a thing existed.

 

Derek Owens is working well for my DD this year, but we also use/love his video lectures.

[justasque]

McDougal LIttell's  Algebra text has a workbook as a supplemental thing; they also have a Cd with pdfs of worksheets at three different levels to go with each unit. If desired, you can do problems for the entire text on worksheets; there are also review worksheets, alternative assessments, worksheets in Spanish, and so on - more than you could ever possibly use for one student.   It may be out of print. It is my favorite Algebra text, with lots of word problems and lots of adaptability and resources for different kinds of learners.

That said, I agree that the space on a worksheet is often not sufficient to solve the problem given,and I think it is detrimental in that the student tries to fit their work into the limited space available, contributing to bad notation habits.

Notation is part of the problem-solving process, and the sooner it is properly learned, the easier it is for all involved.  Some students have a difficult time accurately copying the problem (especially dyslexic students); they will need to learn this about themselves so they can begin to build a self-check habit.

[regentrude]

When this question is asked, as it is from time to time, it seems no one really answers the question, but rather piles on to the OP about how she doesn't really need/want what she's asking for.

 

I think there is a legitimate need for upper level math books in workbook format, whether because of LD's, younger students ready for algebra, or any number of scenarios. I get what Regentrude et. al. are saying regarding the need to be weaned off the workbook format, but it would be great if such a thing existed.

 

Derek Owens is working well for my DD this year, but we also use/love his video lectures.

 

I don't mean to "pile on" anything - I simply question how such thing can be possible that it provides sufficient room for the student  to fully write out an entire complex problem. How thick is that workbook supposed to be? There will either be not enough room, or not enough complexity.

I cannot imagine a publisher would publish a book that consists of essentially blank pages with a problem printed on the top. If they put a lot of problems on the page and just leave a small space between, that works for students who are already proficient and don't need to write out all the steps, for students with tiny handwriting, for students who don't make mistakes - and for problems that are so straightforward that the student does not need multiple attempts  to figure out how to solve them. Having limited space available encourages students to squeeze, skip steps, and don't feel they can try out different approaches and techniques. It limits the freedom of thinking. And I am not being melodramatic here; I have often seen what a difference it makes when the student is encouraged to take an entire page for a problem, instead of trying to fit everything in limited space. It alters the way they approach problem solving. Which is why working on a whiteboard or blackboard is so incredibly valuable!

 

PP have said they copied the problem onto a blank page. That can work well because it does not have the negatives that being forced to execute math in a limited space has.

My issue is not that the problem is printed. My issue is that the student must not be discouraged from writing out all steps and taking as much space as he needs to solve a problem.

Does that make sense?

Edited January 27, 2017 by regentrude

[Janeway]

When this question is asked, as it is from time to time, it seems no one really answers the question, but rather piles on to the OP about how she doesn't really need/want what she's asking for.

 

I think there is a legitimate need for upper level math books in workbook format, whether because of LD's, younger students ready for algebra, or any number of scenarios. I get what Regentrude et. al. are saying regarding the need to be weaned off the workbook format, but it would be great if such a thing existed.

 

Derek Owens is working well for my DD this year, but we also use/love his video lectures.

I am seriously considering going on to Derek Owens for him, but just cannot afford it now so it will have to wait until dh starts working again. And then only if dh makes enough money in the next job.

[quark]

Janeway, have you already looked at the pinned high school math thread? I wonder if the key to algebra series might work. Might not be challenging but there is white space and it is a workbook format. You might be able to transfer some problems over from Jacobs or Dolciani for added challenge?

Edited January 28, 2017 by quark

[ondreeuh]

We use the Holt math series by Edward Burger, and they have a CD (Teacher One-Stop Planner) that has digital files for worksheets and assessments. The problems still need to be copied onto paper for solving (there isn't room to show work on the page), but it eliminates the need to keep track of which problems are assigned. The worksheets have an assortment of each type of problem and have maybe 25 total.

[Saddlemomma]

CLE Algebra 1 has been a God-send for us.  My DD has always hated math.  She has always done well with it during the elementary years, but once we hit Pre-Algebra that changed.  DD is a literal thinker, and abstract math befuddles her terribly.  We had a terrible Pre-A year and went through 3 different programs to get it done (all in that one year).

 

I got CLE Algebra for this year, and while it has taken a lot of going over her work and working together, she is getting it!  She got a 91 on her last test.  She even asked me if we could do CLE for Geometry.  Sadly, I told her no.

 

The workbooks don't have a lot of space, but I just have DD use a composition notebook to workout her problems.  She also writes all over the CLE page.  I don't care how she does it as long as she works out the problem correctly, can show me her work, and identifies her answer.  If she has trouble with a concept, she circles the problem number and after she does the rest of her work, we work that problem out together on the whiteboard.

 

The teacher's manual is great as it shows each step of each problem.  I have caught several mistakes however.  Some word problems will indicate using three consecutive odd numbers in an equation, only to find out the answer and work in the TE reflects three consecutive even numbers or vice-versa.  If DD has an issue and I see the mistake in the TE, I just tell her to do the problem with the correct sequence of consecutive numbers and then she's fine.

 

Other than that, we love the program.

[chiguirre]

Maybe something like this supplemental workbook would work?

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Algebra-Grades-100-SeriesTM-Carson-Dellosa/dp/1483800776/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1483800776&pd_rd_r=98DYARKA4XC2PJXET7PH&pd_rd_w=V1dui&pd_rd_wg=RIG4L&psc=1&refRID=98DYARKA4XC2PJXET7PH

 

Trinqueta has the Algebra 2 book from this series for the WTMA's Algebra 2 course which uses AOPS as their main text.