AoPS pre-algebra

[bfw0729]

Could I use the textbook written by Richard Rusczyk, David Patrick, Ravi Boppana for the Art of Problem Solving Pre-Algebra instead of paying for an online course? Is there a teacher's guide? I know the book speaks directly to the student, but is there a separate teacher's guide and/or answer key? Are the sample problems in this main book or is there a separate workbook? 

 

I would prefer to teach my kids directly instead of using an online course, but want to make sure I have a great textbook to teach from. Have any of you directly taught your children pre-algebra using the AoPS book? 

Edited December 23, 2016 by bfw0729

[Roadrunner]

Yes, you can. There is a detailed solutions manual. It's sold with the textbook if you buy directly from aops.

[wapiti]

Great, fantastic book.  Use the Lesson Problems to teach socratically.  (We liked to do it on a white board.)  The text includes detailed solutions to the Lesson Problems, which will help when you get stuck and which include all important points to learn.  Detailed solutions to the exercises (practice problems) are contained in the separate solution manual, which you will also need.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I think most people are using the textbook rather than taking an online class.  Good luck!

[kiwik]

And if you need more the free videos are great and alcamus is also free.

[bfw0729]

I really appreciate your input, thanks! My kids are in SM 4B and will soon be in 5A. I am thinking to complete 6A and then switch over to AoPS pre-algebra. They will be toward the end of 5th grade/beginning of 6th grade. 

 

Would I read the beginning of the lesson aloud with them or do they just read it to themselves? How do you manage that? Also, I see the lessons are divided by 1.3, 1.4 etc... do you complete one of those each day? 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

We're not starting until after Christmas, but I'll try to sum up a lot of advice I've heard here during my research.  

 

AOPS speaks directly to the student, so in theory, you could just leave them to it.  In practice, however, you'll probably need to guide them into self-learning by modeling how to go through the material.  Maybe buddy read, solve the lesson problems together on the whiteboard (child working, you asking leading questions if necessary to prod them along).  Over the course of the book, gradually withdraw yourself from the teaching according to your child's progress and needs.  

 

Pacing:  Pacing appears to be somewhat uneven in AOPS.  Some sections can be done in a day, others in a week.  Sometimes one problem may take 2 hours, from what I hear.  It may be better to set some kind of general plan but also have a cut-off time (no more than X minutes of math per day) to not burn the kids out.  Pre-A covers some Alg topics, so spending more than one school year on the book is not necessarily going to put the kids "behind"

 

 

 

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Also, if I counted right, there are 83 sections in Pre-A.  That give you two days per section plus some wiggle room if you're aiming to finish the book in one school year.  

 

I'm going to start out by trying the following per unit:

 

Day 1 - Read and do lesson problems together.  Move on to exercises until time limit.  Compare with solutions.

Day 2 - Watch video online, finish exercises or until time limit is reached. Compare with solutions.

... with additional days as necessary depending on difficulty of sections, number of problems and challenges, etc.

[Clemsondana]

The way that we do AoPS is that I let my child work until they get stuck. Sometimes it's on an intro problem, and sometimes it's not until they get to the challenge problems. Sometimes I'm just checking answers, and other times I'm pulling example problems from other books because we need more practice. We find that usually we can do a unit a day (although not always!) but reviews take a while. This year I finally figured out that we do better if we do the end-of-chapter challenge problems gradually. As soon as we start the review problems, we do 1-2 challenges that day. We continue to do a couple each day once we start the next chapter. I realized that my student could easily do some, could work through others, and would have a few that would exasperate them because they are tedious. When we tried to do several as a lesson, it was awful, but with a few each day, it's managable and sometiems fun.

[Loesje22000]

Our pattern for pre A was:

Grey block

Video + white block

Grey block

Etc.

Review day 1

Review day 2

We skipped the challenging problems but that would have add 2 or more day's

 

We've never used Alcumus

[wapiti]

Would I read the beginning of the lesson aloud with them or do they just read it to themselves? How do you manage that?

 

There usually isn't much reading at the beginning of a lesson.  I would suggest either having them read it to themselves or reading it together with them, whatever works.  If you are talking about the lesson problem solutions, that is something different - primarily, the learning is in the *doing*, not in the *reading*.  It is set up so that there are lesson problems first (the gray boxes).  Your children (or you both together) work through those and THAT is what teaches the lesson.  When totally stuck, you can peek at the lesson problem solutions yourself (they immediately follow the lesson problems in the same book) to ask your children another question about what they might do next.  Then after they have worked through the problems, you can go through the lesson problem solutions together to make sure they've learned what they were supposed to; IME, most of that probably came up while they were working on the problems, so going over the solutions doesn't have to take long.

[SanDiegoMom]

Agree with previous poster that the Review challenge problems add at least two days to each review. If you want to finish it in a school year you might need to skip them. We did them and the course took a full calendar year.

[Miss Tick]

I've been toying with the idea, I think Arcadia suggested it, of saving the challenge problems for review later, maybe during the summer.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

The way that we do AoPS is that I let my child work until they get stuck. Sometimes it's on an intro problem, and sometimes it's not until they get to the challenge problems. Sometimes I'm just checking answers, and other times I'm pulling example problems from other books because we need more practice. We find that usually we can do a unit a day (although not always!) but reviews take a while. This year I finally figured out that we do better if we do the end-of-chapter challenge problems gradually. As soon as we start the review problems, we do 1-2 challenges that day. We continue to do a couple each day once we start the next chapter. I realized that my student could easily do some, could work through others, and would have a few that would exasperate them because they are tedious. When we tried to do several as a lesson, it was awful, but with a few each day, it's managable and sometiems fun.

 

 

Agree with previous poster that the Review challenge problems add at least two days to each review. If you want to finish it in a school year you might need to skip them. We did them and the course took a full calendar year.

 

 

I've been toying with the idea, I think Arcadia suggested it, of saving the challenge problems for review later, maybe during the summer.

 

 

 

 

This is really helpful information to have, thank you!  I think we might try to the 1-2 per day approach while continuing on... depending on chapter, etc.  

[bfw0729]

This information is so amazing! I will print this up to save in my math folder. Such fantastic advice, thank you. 

 

I do have another question. Currently, we work on Singapore Math four days a week and on Fridays we read and work on problems from Life of Fred. We do three to four chapters on Fridays in LoF and are currently working in the Fractions book and Ice Cream. 

 

Could the kids do pre algebra four days a week and continue to work on LoF on Fridays and STILL complete AoPS in one year if possible, even if it's a full 12 months?

 

[Julie Smith]

This information is so amazing! I will print this up to save in my math folder. Such fantastic advice, thank you.

 

I do have another question. Currently, we work on Singapore Math four days a week and on Fridays we read and work on problems from Life of Fred. We do three to four chapters on Fridays in LoF and are currently working in the Fractions book and Ice Cream.

 

Could the kids do pre algebra four days a week and continue to work on LoF on Fridays and STILL complete AoPS in one year if possible, even if it's a full 12 months?

It truly depends on the student and teacher. One student might be able to, another not.

[Loesje22000]

Aops Pre A three times a week (+ CTC Understanding Geometry twice a week) took us about 18 months (without challenging problems) one 'hour' of math was about 45-50 minutes in our home.

[bfw0729]

Aops Pre A three times a week (+ CTC Understanding Geometry twice a week) took us about 18 months (without challenging problems) one 'hour' of math was about 45-50 minutes in our home.

 

Oh thank you for this. It provides me some perspective. 

[Arcadia]

I've been toying with the idea, I think Arcadia suggested it, of saving the challenge problems for review later, maybe during the summer.

It works very well for my DS11 to do it that way. He needs the review over summer and keeping the challenge problems for summer save me from having to find freebies on the internet to use.

 

Could the kids do pre algebra four days a week and continue to work on LoF on Fridays and STILL complete AoPS in one year if possible, even if it's a full 12 months?

Depends on the child, it is unpredictable :)

[Loesje22000]

Oh thank you for this. It provides me some perspective.

You're welcome :)

 

Dd was just 11 when we started with AoPS Pre A.

If we would have started at a younger age she would have need more time for AoPs Pre A I suppose.

[daijobu]

We do one section per day, then 1-2 days each for review and challenge problems.  We have rarely needed to spend 2 days on a section.  We do the introductory problems together, writing out the given problems and solutions on paper, me leading them through the solution socratically.  They do the exercises on their own, checking against the solution manual and checking back with me for anything they don't understand.  

 

We only use the AoPS online classes for extras like AMC prep or programming.  

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Out of curiosity, how are the challenge problems grouped?  Are there a few in most problem sets, or are they regrouped together at the end of each chapter?

 

When we talk about challenge problems, we're talking about the ones with the stars by them, right?  

[Loesje22000]

Out of curiosity, how are the challenge problems grouped? Are there a few in most problem sets, or are they regrouped together at the end of each chapter?

 

When we talk about challenge problems, we're talking about the ones with the stars by them, right?

Not me.

At the end of a chapte one has

- a summary (not much problems)

- review problems (most often more then one page)

- challenging problems (most often 2 pages with time consuming problems)

 

The ones with stars are problems from Mathcontests like MOEM

 

We skipped / skip those 2 pages with challenging problems as they are really challenging and time consuming. With a math lover and lot of time these are / might be the cherry of the cake.

[Arcadia]

Out of curiosity, how are the challenge problems grouped? Are there a few in most problem sets, or are they regrouped together at the end of each chapter?

 

When we talk about challenge problems, we're talking about the ones with the stars by them, right?

It is after the chapter review problems/exercise. So the last section in each chapter. It is chapter summary, review problems, challenge problems. I am not talking about the questions with the stars by them.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Not me.

At the end of a chapte one has

- a summary (not much problems)

- review problems (most often more then one page)

- challenging problems (most often 2 pages with time consuming problems)

 

The ones with stars are problems from Mathcontests like MOEM

 

We skipped / skip those 2 pages with challenging problems as they are really challenging and time consuming. With a math lover and lot of time these are / might be the cherry of the cake.

 

 

It is after the chapter review problems/exercise. So the last section in each chapter. It is chapter summary, review problems, challenge problems. I am not talking about the questions with the stars by them.

 

 

 

Thank you both!  It wasn't clear from the samples and I haven't gotten my book yet.   :laugh: