I am so ticked off (warning: might be offensive to some)

[StephanieZ]

One more reason to love you, Stephanie!

 

Awww, thank you!! I love you right back!! <3

[RootAnn]

I'm teaching a few kids a government class right now. We have had a good time dissecting all sides (including third party candidates) during some discussions. Recently, we covered First Amendment Freedoms & the President-Elect had just sent a Tweet about flag-burning. It was relevant to what we were learning.

 

This type of discussion (rah-rah or the rant) doesn't seem at all relevant. I'd complain, but like others - only with evidence (emails, recordings) and only after grades were in & I had a copy of his first semester transcript. They'll likely ignore you at that point since you will have pulled him by then, but I'd certainly let them know I was upset!

[luuknam]

I guess I think that "all liberals believe in after birth abortion" is clearly wrong. But if withdrawing food and water from a vegetative infant were to be called after birth abortion, then I am not so sure that it is only a rare "nut" case liberal who does support that.     ??????

 

I think euthanasia would be a better term for that, since it's not about randomly aborting kids you don't want, the way that abortion often happens, at least in the first few months of pregnancy. But anyhow, saying that all liberals are for it is going way too far, even if more people are for it than just a few nutcases.

[Guest]

I would look deep into my motives before doing anything. If you report him are you doing it to make the school a better place- a school that you're about to leave, and help the teacher improve in his role, or are you doing it just because you're pissed off at what he said? Do you think he's truly a bad teacher that needs to be removed? I guess I would look at what I expect the result of my report to be, and if I'm okay with the repercussions whatever those may be. 

 

I'm probably in the minority here, but I would have a talk with my kid about it and leave it at that. He's going to be dealing with this sort of thing in college anyway and sounds like he's handling it pretty maturely. If these were jr. high kids I might be more prone to say something, but they're high school kids in an IB program. They're clearly not lacking the intellect to go and look something up if they have questions about it or doubt the veracity. 

 

I can see maybe taking it up with the teacher directly, but I'm going to be honest and say that I'm tired of tattle tale mentality with adults against adults. And that's how I view going directly to a principal or superior to this guy. If I were that upset I would talk to the teacher about it, but I do think some of the divisiveness going on lately is because people are looking for anything to call another person out on. There is no benefit of the doubt given anymore for what someone's intent might be. I get that it's a pattern you're seeing, but you're also fed up with the school, the program and everything. Sometimes when we're fed up we start looking at everything with a hypercritical eye. Personally, I would give it a pass and let other parents who have a continuing, vested interest in the school be ones to pursue it if it's ongoing. 

[SKL]

FTR it is an actual practice, legality of it has been debated on both sides by lawmakers, and it either is or has been (in recent decades) legal in some US jurisdictions.  I do believe it is statistically rare.

 

Most people on both sides don't know this, both because it's not widely reported, and because when it is reported, people (understandably) don't want to believe it.

 

The vast majority of people in both major parties would be against this practice, I am sure.  A person who says otherwise to children in a public school has problems on multiple levels.

[Farrar]

FTR it is an actual practice, legality of it has been debated on both sides by lawmakers, and it either is or has been (in recent decades) legal in some US jurisdictions.  I do believe it is statistically rare.

 

Most people on both sides don't know this, both because it's not widely reported, and because when it is reported, people (understandably) don't want to believe it.

 

The vast majority of people in both major parties would be against this practice, I am sure.  A person who says otherwise to children in a public school has problems on multiple levels.

 

No.

 

Show me proof. Every single thing that's out there about this on legitimate news sites is about whether there's even an actual debate about it and whether the bioethicists who talked about it were actually even for it in the first place (they say they were not from any legal standpoint and that it was an academic position meant to be argued by other academics).

 

No one is killing babies electively in American hospitals with medical help. If a child is born with severe issues and cannot survive, then an eventual choice to remove life support may occur the same way it would when your family decides it's time to remove life support for grandpa after his stroke. He wasn't aborted either, by the way. You may disagree with the decision to remove life support from individuals who are medically considered brain dead. Your moral reasoning may be the same as for being against abortion. However, it doesn't make it an abortion.

[SKL]

No.

 

Show me proof. Every single thing that's out there about this on legitimate news sites is about whether there's even an actual debate about it and whether the bioethicists who talked about it were actually even for it in the first place (they say they were not from any legal standpoint and that it was an academic position meant to be argued by other academics).

 

No one is killing babies electively in American hospitals with medical help. If a child is born with severe issues and cannot survive, then an eventual choice to remove life support may occur the same way it would when your family decides it's time to remove life support for grandpa after his stroke. He wasn't aborted either, by the way. You may disagree with the decision to remove life support from individuals who are medically considered brain dead. Your moral reasoning may be the same as for being against abortion. However, it doesn't make it an abortion.

 

I am not sure what you consider a reliable news source and I'm not allowed to post about certain things on this forum, but if you google "opposition to born alive bill" you will see what I am talking about and that it is not "fake news." 

 

I'm not going to respond about this any more, because the OP does not want that to be the focus here.

[Farrar]

I am not sure what you consider a reliable news source and I'm not allowed to post about certain things on this forum, but if you google "opposition to born alive bill" you will see what I am talking about and that it is not "fake news." 

 

I'm not going to respond about this any more, because the OP does not want that to be the focus here.

 

Googled. There was an actual bill - at least a couple, actually - some at the state level and one at the federal level - that ostensibly sought to protect babies after birth, but was NOT in response to any actual medical practice (though a woman who was nearly the victim of an illegal, home done late term abortion made some testimony for it and said it was necessary - in reality, at the hospital, doctors and nurses rendered her immediate medical AID and probably saved her life, thus making it even more baffling that anyone thought this was needed). Pro-choice advocates mostly voted against the bills because they worried that the language in the bill could be deemed to apply to babies before they were born. In other words - another bill proposed by one side to supposedly do one thing or fight some imaginary problem but actually to try and expand their position in other ways. Happens all the time on both sides of a number of issues. I call

.

 

In other words, nope. No one is killing babies after they're delivered in hospitals with medical help. It is not a real practice.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Farrar

[Charlie]

I am not sure what you consider a reliable news source and I'm not allowed to post about certain things on this forum, but if you google "opposition to born alive bill" you will see what I am talking about and that it is not "fake news." 

 

I'm not going to respond about this any more, because the OP does not want that to be the focus here.

 

A state or federal law showing the legality of this practice would be a valid source.

[Charlie]

The IB program is supposed to be particularly about critical thinking--HOW to think about things using facts, primary sources, and then coming up with intelligent, logical arguments. What this teacher is doing is so NOT in line with that thinking: using fake news sources, propaganda, the works--it would be funny if it weren't so wrong and offensive.

 

That's why it's worth a follow-up, imo.. It sounds like this teacher not only lacks important critical thinking skills, but is teaching  - by modeling - erroneous tactics. This is something the school should know, not for punitive reasons, but because communities that work together are stronger. You and your family are part of the community. You're part of the school. Community sources thrive best when they can consider valid and relevant feedback. If you can figure out a way to explain the problem while allowing the teacher to save face (diplomacy or kissing ass, however you like to think about it), your concerns are more likely to be received well. But secretly, I'd be pissed as hell myself, and winning all kinds of Oscar worthy court drama arguments in my head every time I took a shower. Knowing my husband and my kids, we'd have a great time lampooning these kinds of arguments with each other, too.

[OnMyOwn]

I would wait until your son is done, and you have printed official transcripts of all his time there . . . (As, in my world view, my kid's welfare comes above most of my general philosophical principles . . . So, I'd want my kid out of the line of fire before I went to war.)

 

And then I'd go on a rampage.

 

School board (public meetings -- bring some friends), meeting with the principal, etc, etc.

 

If your son is willing, I'd ask him to make some discreet recordings (smart phone/body cam/whatever) of the class/teacher for the remaining days your son has his class. Could make some very good viral videos . . .

 

THIS IS WHY OUR ELECTORATE DID WHAT IT DID. The rejection of science, the anti-intellectualism, the equalization of facts carefully presented by a coherent and competent journalist vs the random thoughts based on made up nonsense vs the intentionally misleading "fake news" stories put out by a corrupted empire of news-tainment idiots . . .

 

Journalism is nearly dead. As is academic integrity. Accepting this abuse of position as OK is not a responsible option, IMHO. Fight it. Make a loud and angry noise.

 

The teacher is just a moron with a STAGE. Very appropriate considering his preferred candidate. I'd go to war and try to get his ass fired. Or at least make him as miserable as possible.

 

Thank goodness you are bringing your son home. What a nightmare.

 

(((hugs)))

So you have a problem with all liberals being cast as pro post-birth abortion, but no trouble at all casting all conservatives as anti-intellectual and easily misled by "fake news". Lol.

[StephanieZ]

So you have a problem with all liberals being cast as pro post-birth abortion, but no trouble at all casting all conservatives as anti-intellectual and easily misled by "fake news". Lol.

 

That's really strange. Where do you get that from my post? Seems really odd to come up with that interpretation of my post. 

 

 

There are plenty of intelligent, decent, humane conservatives with integrity. I know some of them personally, and I read others, and I believe there are likely quite a few on this board.

 

Obviously, the teacher in this class isn't one of those conservatives.

 

A thoughtful, intelligent, ethical conservative wouldn't distort the "facts" and abuse his power as this teacher has.  

[LucyStoner]

Having known two families devastated to watch their newborns die in the hospital shortly after birth because they were born unable to survive, having been there at those funerals and been largely helpless to comfort my friends, I am beyond anger that anyone would dare classify these tragic deaths as being the same as elective abortions. Where some people get off is beyond me, but shame on anyone who would belittle those families' losses and lie about them like that. Your morals, compassion and ethics all leave much to be desired. Not going to couch it. It is utterly reprehensible.

Edited December 3, 2016 by LucyStoner

[LucyStoner]

So you have a problem with all liberals being cast as pro post-birth abortion, but no trouble at all casting all conservatives as anti-intellectual and easily misled by "fake news". Lol.

Alas, she didn't say all conservatives.

[OnMyOwn]

Alas, she didn't say all conservatives.

No, I guess she was just referring to the 60 million that voted for the Republican candidate.

[LucyStoner]

No, I guess she was just referring to the 60 million that voted for the Republican candidate.

That's a big guess.

 

Fake news was a factor in this election, which is a conclusion I see being drawn by both liberals and conservatives. A factor does not mean it was the factor or a factor for every voter for only one candidate or a factor only on one side.

[OnMyOwn]

Get real. She didn't say all. My personal guess would be about half. Same percentage here would follow then. ( and that's half of all who come here, not merely those who post!. No need to get your knickers in a twist.)

Here come the bullies, so these are my last comments . . .

 

I guess everything would have been okay, then, if the teacher had said half of all liberals are pro post-birth abortion? Get real, yourself, lol.

 

If you consider my participation in the conversation "getting my knickers in a twist", then so be it. From my viewpoint, you are showing your true colors -- that you are intolerant of any true discourse, which you display for all to see by ridiculing me for "daring" to point out the derogatory comments made about a whole group of people and how hypocritical that is.

 

Have a wonderful day.

[ktgrok]

Here come the bullies, so these are my last comments . . .

 

I guess everything would have been okay, then, if the teacher had said half of all liberals are pro post-birth abortion? Get real, yourself, lol.

 

If you consider my participation in the conversation "getting my knickers in a twist", then so be it. From my viewpoint, you are showing your true colors -- that you are intolerant of any true discourse, which you display for all to see by ridiculing me for "daring" to point out the derogatory comments made about a whole group of people and how hypocritical that is.

 

Have a wonderful day.

 

Uh, no, because that wouldn't be accurate either. Saying "a few people, some of whom don't even live in this country, are theoretically in favor of it" would be okay. 

[LucyStoner]

Here come the bullies, so these are my last comments . . .

 

I guess everything would have been okay, then, if the teacher had said half of all liberals are pro post-birth abortion? Get real, yourself, lol.

 

If you consider my participation in the conversation "getting my knickers in a twist", then so be it. From my viewpoint, you are showing your true colors -- that you are intolerant of any true discourse, which you display for all to see by ridiculing me for "daring" to point out the derogatory comments made about a whole group of people and how hypocritical that is.

 

Have a wonderful day.

People who disagree with you are bullies?

 

A teacher spreading blanket and false statements about a non-existent thing is participating in true discourse?

 

Is that what you are saying?

 

Expecting a teacher to have some professional integrity and a relationship with accuracy is not intolerant.

Edited December 4, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Artichoke]

That's really strange. Where do you get that from my post? Seems really odd to come up with that interpretation of my post. 

 

 

There are plenty of intelligent, decent, humane conservatives with integrity. I know some of them personally, and I read others, and I believe there are likely quite a few on this board.

 

Obviously, the teacher in this class isn't one of those conservatives.

 

A thoughtful, intelligent, ethical conservative wouldn't distort the "facts" and abuse his power as this teacher has.  

 

 

 

I came up with the same interpretation based upon your comments about the electorate: 

 

THIS IS WHY OUR ELECTORATE DID WHAT IT DID. The rejection of science, the anti-intellectualism, the equalization of facts carefully presented by a coherent and competent journalist vs the random thoughts based on made up nonsense vs the intentionally misleading "fake news" stories put out by a corrupted empire of news-tainment idiots . . .

 

 

You've labeled all of the electorate who voted for Trump with your statement. 

 

As for the teacher, his behavior and actions are unacceptable.  

[StephanieZ]

I'm not going to go head-to-head about my statements above regarding the electorate and the outcome of the election.

 

To those who feel I have somehow disparaged Trump voters, I'm fine with that interpretation. 

 

To those who feel I have somehow disparaged all conservatives, I believe I have clarified that above that I do not intend any insult to conservatives in general. 

 

In my experience, Trump voters and conservatives are NOT one and the same. 

 

I believe that the forum rules prohibit political debate, and so I've tried my best to address the topic at hand (the terrible teacher and his use of false "facts" and abuse of power) without rabbit trail-ing into prohibited areas of discussion. Although I don't want my lack of response to be viewed as agreement, out of respect for SWB and the WTM boards, I won't go further into this discussion of politics. 

 

 

[Artichoke]

I'm not going to go head-to-head about my statements above regarding the electorate and the outcome of the election.

 

To those who feel I have somehow disparaged Trump voters, I'm fine with that interpretation. 

 

To those who feel I have somehow disparaged all conservatives, I believe I have clarified that above that I do not intend any insult to conservatives in general. 

 

In my experience, Trump voters and conservatives are NOT one and the same. 

 

I believe that the forum rules prohibit political debate, and so I've tried my best to address the topic at hand (the terrible teacher and his use of false "facts" and abuse of power) without rabbit trail-ing into prohibited areas of discussion. Although I don't want my lack of response to be viewed as agreement, out of respect for SWB and the WTM boards, I won't go further into this discussion of politics. 

 

Thanks for explaining this.  Based on my experiences, most folks do consider Trump supporters and conservatives one and the same.  I'm sorry to have misinterpreted your remarks.   I totally agree that we've ventured into politics and need to change the direction of the conversation. 

[LucyStoner]

I came up with the same interpretation based upon your comments about the electorate:

 

THIS IS WHY OUR ELECTORATE DID WHAT IT DID. The rejection of science, the anti-intellectualism, the equalization of facts carefully presented by a coherent and competent journalist vs the random thoughts based on made up nonsense vs the intentionally misleading "fake news" stories put out by a corrupted empire of news-tainment idiots . . .

 

 

You've labeled all of the electorate who voted for Trump with your statement.

 

As for the teacher, his behavior and actions are unacceptable.

The electorate is not a monolithic force. It doesn't follow that with so many votes cast that all of the people who voted for one person or another are motivated to do so by the same things. That some voters were substantially influenced by low quality and fake news in some interesting new ways doesn't mean that her statement was intended to mean all voters or even all voters who voted the same way were doing so for the same reasons. Edited December 5, 2016 by LucyStoner

[kiwik]

It is OK for a teacher to say they think a politician is great or a policy is wrong. It is nor OK to say that everyone else is x or y because they don't agree with him/her.