Massachusetts Supreme Court decision

[Amira]

I thought this decision stating that black men may have cause to run from police was very interesting.

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/21/494900984/black-men-may-have-cause-to-run-from-police-massachusetts-high-court-says

 

"Such an individual, when approached by the police, might just as easily be motivated by the desire to avoid the recurring indignity of being racially profiled as by the desire to hide criminal activity. Given this reality for black males in the city of Boston, a judge should, in appropriate cases, consider the report's findings in weighing flight as a factor in the reasonable suspicion calculus."

 

Thoughts?

[Katy]

I think it was a very good decision.  Reasonable and well thought out, without being inflammatory.

[Anne in CA]

Thank goodness there is some reason in the world.

[Guest]

Doi.

 

But great. Good job ma ssc.

[Pam in CT]

Interesting - thank you.  Sounds like people on multiple "sides" of the problem are approaching it in reasonably good faith.  Also that the problem is hard and the work isn't done yet.

 

1.  Following the links in the OP article, the Boston police force commissioned and thereafter published a study of their use of Field Interrogation and Observation techniques, after which they determined to take a number of steps towards more community-based policing, including more/more complete documentation of FIO stops, routinely handing out business cards after such stops, explicit training on implicit bias, and use of body cameras.  On the one hand, clear efforts, glass half full.

 

2.  Then the ACLU, looking at the same police department-generated data, then published their own findings which brought a slightly different focus to it, pointing out (among other things) that even after controlling for/subtracting out multiple FIO stops of individuals with known prior arrest/gang membership etc, blacks were disproportionately stopped; that in 75% of such stops LEO gave no reason for the stops but simply wrote "to investigate person" on the now-required documentation; that more than 200,000 such encounters led to no arrest, and only 2.5% led to seizure of contraband; and that despite the police study recommendations re body cameras, such recommendations were a voluntary pilot program presuming volunteer officers and when no officers stepped forward to pilot the cameras that recommendation was quietly dropped.  So, OTOH, remaining work to be done, glass half empty.

 

3.  Then the court reviewing a particular case, as discussed in the OP, in which LEO wished to FIO two people who ran away from from them, ruled that flight from LEO does not in and of itself demonstrate probable cause:

 

Where a suspect is under no obligation to respond to a police officer's inquiry, we are of the view that flight to avoid that contact should be given little, if any, weight as a factor probative of reasonable suspicion. Otherwise, our long-standing jurisprudence establishing the boundary between consensual and obligatory police encounters will be seriously undermined...

Citing the ACLU observations (which were based on the police department's own data) about racially disproportionate frequency of FIO stops, and "fishing expedition" infrequency of arrest or found contraband in such stops, the court wrote that an individual who fled 

 

Such an individual, when approached by the police, might just as easily be motivated by the desire to avoid the recurring indignity of being racially profiled as by the desire to hide criminal activity. Given this reality for black males in the city of Boston, a judge should, in appropriate cases, consider the report's findings in weighing flight as a factor in the reasonable suspicion calculus.

 

... which seems to me to be an acknowledgement of both the OTOH continued existence of systemic bias and the recurring personal indignities and injustice associated therein; and OTOH the possibility that sometimes flight MAY BE indication of probable cause -- that there's a tension, a push-pull, that will only ever subside when racially uneven "recurring indignities" themselves subside.  Which is to say, the work is not easy and is not yet done.

 

 

But these parties seem to be acknowledging and grappling with it, which is something.

[maize]

Interesting - thank you. Sounds like people on multiple "sides" of the problem are approaching it in reasonably good faith. Also that the problem is hard and the work isn't done yet.

 

1. Following the links in the OP article, the Boston police force commissioned and thereafter published a study of their use of Field Interrogation and Observation techniques, after which they determined to take a number of steps towards more community-based policing, including more/more complete documentation of FIO stops, routinely handing out business cards after such stops, explicit training on implicit bias, and use of body cameras. On the one hand, clear efforts, glass half full.

 

2. Then the ACLU, looking at the same police department-generated data, then published their own findings which brought a slightly different focus to it, pointing out (among other things) that even after controlling for/subtracting out multiple FIO stops of individuals with known prior arrest/gang membership etc, blacks were disproportionately stopped; that in 75% of such stops LEO gave no reason for the stops but simply wrote "to investigate person" on the now-required documentation; that more than 200,000 such encounters led to no arrest, and only 2.5% led to seizure of contraband; and that despite the police study recommendations re body cameras, such recommendations were a voluntary pilot program presuming volunteer officers and when no officers stepped forward to pilot the cameras that recommendation was quietly dropped. So, OTOH, remaining work to be done, glass half empty.

 

3. Then the court reviewing a particular case, as discussed in the OP, in which LEO wished to FIO two people who ran away from from them, ruled that flight from LEO does not in and of itself demonstrate probable cause:

Citing the ACLU observations (which were based on the police department's own data) about racially disproportionate frequency of FIO stops, and "fishing expedition" infrequency of arrest or found contraband in such stops, the court wrote that an individual who fled

 

... which seems to me to be an acknowledgement of both the OTOH continued existence of systemic bias and the recurring personal indignities and injustice associated therein; and OTOH the possibility that sometimes flight MAY BE indication of probable cause -- that there's a tension, a push-pull, that will only ever subside when racially uneven "recurring indignities" themselves subside. Which is to say, the work is not easy and is not yet done.

 

 

But these parties seem to be acknowledging and grappling with it, which is something.

Grappling with the issue in a serious manner is definitely a positive step.

[zoobie]

Compared to the other case in the news that rubber stamped "parking while black" as reasonable suspicion, this is a good step.

[Sneezyone]

It is nice to see a court acknowledge that the perception/judgment of LEOs is every bit as significant and meaningful as the perception/judgment of the citizenry. Allowing LEOs to react with overwhelming force or give chase for no reason while not allowing citizens that same human reaction (fight or flight) is wrong, IMHO. 

 

I saw a video today of a 15yo's interaction with LEOs after she ran into or was hit by a car while riding a bike. She wanted to refuse treatment and go on her way. The LEOs wanted to detain her, one LEO said, for treatment. No paramedics were called to the scene though.

 

The girl screamed and resisted being placed in the police cruiser and was pepper-sprayed while in that confined space. Looking at the situation from her eyes, being handcuffed, pepper-sprayed and confined in the back of a cruiser by two white officers (who never, BTW, took her to a hospital) must have been terrifying. My child would have fought like a demon to get out of there too. People end up dead after being taken away. That's what these kids grow up knowing and seeing. They have real, legitimate fears/feelings too.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Sneezyone

[Pam in CT]

re so-vastly-different lived experiences

It is nice to see a court acknowledge that the perception/judgment of LEOs is every bit as significant and meaningful as the perception/judgment of the citizenry. Allowing LEOs to react with overwhelming force or give chase for no reason while not allowing citizens that same human reaction (fight or flight) is wrong, IMHO. 

 

I saw a video today of a 15yo's interaction with LEOs after she ran into or was hit by a car while riding a bike. She wanted to refuse treatment and go on her way. The LEOs wanted to detain her, one LEO said, for treatment. No paramedics were called to the scene though.

 

The girl screamed and resisted being placed in the police cruiser and was pepper-sprayed while in that confined space. Looking at the situation from her eyes, being handcuffed, pepper-sprayed and confined in the back of a cruiser by two white officers (who never, BTW, took her to a hospital) must have been terrifying. My child would have fought like a demon to get out of there too. People end up dead after being taken away. That's what these kids grow up knowing and seeing. They have real, legitimate fears/feelings too.

 

 

Gulp.

 

Handcuffing and pepper-spraying a child who's been hit by a car does not build a perception of trust in law enforcement.  For sure.

[kroe1]

While I think it is great that we are researching the relationship behind LEO and race, it is appalling to me to allow one race to run from police and not others. How about everyone just learn to stop, put your hands up, and let the police quickly do their jobs. If one has proper ID and no rap sheet, stopping takes about 10 minutes. Done.

 

In the meantime, subconscious and conscious racial profiling by LEO can be mitigated by some in-house training.

[Pam in CT]

While I think it is great that we are researching the relationship behind LEO and race, it is appalling to me to allow one race to run from police and not others. How about everyone just learn to stop, put your hands up, and let the police quickly do their jobs. If one has proper ID and no rap sheet, stopping takes about 10 minutes. Done.

 

In the meantime, subconscious and conscious racial profiling by LEO can be mitigated by some in-house training.

 

 

It is indeed great that Boston LE is researching systemic racial bias in LE and implementing greater training on implicit bias, de-escalation, and communication strategies to move toward more community-based policing.  

 

Nothing in the court ruling suggests that blacks are "allowed" to flee and whites are not.  It says that flight is not, in and of itself, probable cause.

 

 

To the first part of the bolded, the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution provides

 

[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

... and when LE's own data demonstrates racially disproportionate stop-and-frisk encounters (or FIO as they're called in the Boston case), without probable cause and without warrants, it is troubling as matter of a Constitutional rights.  It is also troubling for the long haul health of our society -- people who repeatedly endure such indignities for no reason are rather likely to resent them.  If the racial pattern is not acknowledged and meaningfully addressed such resentment builds and spreads.  Which is happening.  Which affects us all.

 

 

To the second part of your bolded, neither the Constitution nor other US law requires that we carry "proper ID," nor are we beholden by law to show it to LEO in order to prove our right to walk the streets.   White people are not routinely asked to do so.   That's kind of the point, here.

[Nan in Mass]

It is nice to see a court acknowledge that the perception/judgment of LEOs is every bit as significant and meaningful as the perception/judgment of the citizenry. Allowing LEOs to react with overwhelming force or give chase for no reason while not allowing citizens that same human reaction (fight or flight) is wrong, IMHO.

 

I saw a video today of a 15yo's interaction with LEOs after she ran into or was hit by a car while riding a bike. She wanted to refuse treatment and go on her way. The LEOs wanted to detain her, one LEO said, for treatment. No paramedics were called to the scene though.

 

The girl screamed and resisted being placed in the police cruiser and was pepper-sprayed while in that confined space. Looking at the situation from her eyes, being handcuffed, pepper-sprayed and confined in the back of a cruiser by two white officers (who never, BTW, took her to a hospital) must have been terrifying. My child would have fought like a demon to get out of there too. People end up dead after being taken away. That's what these kids grow up knowing and seeing. They have real, legitimate fears/feelings too.

Shudder. I can so totally see this happening. That poor, poor girl.

 

One of my children was involuntarily held for much longer than 10 minutes when he hadn,t done anything wrong. Small town so officers semi-familiar to the child. No previous bad encounters and previous total brainwashing by us and the community that police are friendly helpers. Polite, non-violent interaction. No racial issues. We came and politely extracted child from the police car and explained that we,d given our permission for this odd activity. Child sat tight and waited for us. And STILL it was YEARS before this child wasn,t shaking with fear and anger in the presence of a policeman. Ironically, it took a number of police encounters as an older teen on the wrong side of the law where the police behaved... hmmm... perhaps not as impersonal professionals but at least like caring neighbors, and enough maturity to recognize the difficulties of the job for it to wear off. If child had been too startled or scared to sit still, I highly doubt that pepper spray would have been involved. Nothing about this particular encounter would have scared our police enough to do anything more than try to grab the child and if they missed, call us really annoyed. But I can see how police working in other circumstances might have anger or prejudices that warped their judgement and escalated a nonviolent situation. And I can see how a fifteen year old living in those circumstances might try to escape going down a path that in her experience, never ended well, especially if she were somewhat familiar with the script the police were supposed to be following and the police weren,t following it. Judging by my own family, an encounter like hers has widespread negative consequences. And when you get many encounters overlapping, you get a situation which is going to take extraordinary measures to sooth, both for the police and the citizenry. In an ideal world, the judge would not have had to explain running because nobody would have cause to panic and run, or if they did, the police would know how to de-escalate the situation, but this is an imperfect world where we have to deal with damaged police and a damaged population of people. I am thankful for this judge,s words and I hope they are well publicized.

 

Nan

 

Eta - "Excuse" running isn,t a good way to put it. Changed it to "explain".

Edited September 23, 2016 by Nan in Mass

[Aura]

While I think it is great that we are researching the relationship behind LEO and race, it is appalling to me to allow one race to run from police and not others. How about everyone just learn to stop, put your hands up, and let the police quickly do their jobs. If one has proper ID and no rap sheet, stopping takes about 10 minutes. Done.

 

In the meantime, subconscious and conscious racial profiling by LEO can be mitigated by some in-house training.

 

This is a complete misinterpretation of the ruling and the events, as Pam explained, so I won't rehash that.

 

However, I have seen enough to know that it is absolutely foolish and delusional to believe that just following the orders of the police ("stop, put your hands up, and let the police quickly do their jobs") will result in a quick and impartial stop.

 

Yes, follow orders. Doing otherwise might get you killed. (Of course, even following orders doesn't guarantee you won't be killed.) Keep your mouth shut. And if things escalate, pray that you will have the money to defend yourself, because innocent until proven guilty does. not. exist. in. America.

 

And the police are not simply protectors of the peace. They have shown that they can also be thugs and criminals themselves. Believing that they are only one or the other will never improve anything.

[Harriet Vane]

While I think it is great that we are researching the relationship behind LEO and race, it is appalling to me to allow one race to run from police and not others. How about everyone just learn to stop, put your hands up, and let the police quickly do their jobs. If one has proper ID and no rap sheet, stopping takes about 10 minutes. Done.

 

In the meantime, subconscious and conscious racial profiling by LEO can be mitigated by some in-house training.

 

 

This is absolutely not the reality experienced by many people of color. It is NOT as simple as stopping and putting your hands up and it's really not ten minutes. Your response minimizes the real experiences of millions of people. 

[LucyStoner]

I've had the experience of being with a black person, sometimes my brother, when they were stopped. And then an obvious shift in tone and attitude when the LEO sees me. It really is that blatant sometimes.

Edited September 23, 2016 by LucyStoner

[ChocolateReignRemix]

While I think it is great that we are researching the relationship behind LEO and race, it is appalling to me to allow one race to run from police and not others. How about everyone just learn to stop, put your hands up, and let the police quickly do their jobs. If one has proper ID and no rap sheet, stopping takes about 10 minutes. Done.

 

In the meantime, subconscious and conscious racial profiling by LEO can be mitigated by some in-house training.

 

How about if those hired to protect and serve make stops only as allowed under the 4th Amendment?

[Guest]

How about if those hired to protect and serve make stops only as allowed under the 4th Amendment?

Guffaw.

[Guest]

While I think it is great that we are researching the relationship behind LEO and race, it is appalling to me to allow one race to run from police and not others. How about everyone just learn to stop, put your hands up, and let the police quickly do their jobs. If one has proper ID and no rap sheet, stopping takes about 10 minutes. Done.

 

In the meantime, subconscious and conscious racial profiling by LEO can be mitigated by some in-house training.

Have you seen the videos of people executed WITH THEIR HANDS UP?

 

...or sitting in a parked car reading a book? Or dozens of other legal things?

 

How is *conscious* racial profiling mitigated? What MITIGATES overt, deadly, racism?

 

And let's all remember that even if the police SEE you commit a crime.... ANY CRIME.... They don't have the right to kill you on the spot.

 

ETA and yes, it's not illegal to be alive without I'd on your person, not EVEN to have a rap sheet.

Edited September 23, 2016 by OKBud