Only me Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I was a bit surprised by the suggestion that American school days are too short. I realize that some other countries have longer school days but I also think that is wrong too. It was proposed on another thread that all high schoolers should have to volunteer from 3-5 every day. I'm just curious about what you think the typical high schooler does during that time. Do you think they are all laying around playing video games or talking on the phone? My dd is a junior but she has pretty much had the same courseload every year. She is in a few honors level classes but the rest are regular. It seems that not only are teens expected to get perfect grades but have to show colleges that they did volunteer work and are involved in sports or a club. My dd is out of the house by 7 or so. She gets home from school at 3:30 if she doesn't have practice. She has poms practice twice a week from 3-5 and then games on Friday night. So Friday night she gets home at 3:30 but we have to leave the house again by 5:00. She used to dance 3-4 days a week but had to quit because she had too much homework. Every night she has at least 2-3 hours of homework but often more. There were weeks at a time last year that she had 5+ hours of homework a night and more on weekends. So typically she starts homework as soon as she gets home from school or from practice, stops for dinner, has a break when she takes a shower and finishes up by 11:00. She considers herself lucky if she can spend 15 minutes outside in the afternoon taking a walk or has a weekend afternoon free to spend with family or friends. DD has an easy practice scheduled compared to most other sports. Many people may think that sports are a waste of time and that they could use that time volunteering but I think that sports and other activities are very valuable to teens. I'm also finding that colleges expect students to do more than just excel in academics. She also has to complete 8 hours of community service a quarter. It may not seem like a lot but on top of all the homework it really isn't that easy to achieve. I can't imagine having to do 10 hours a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 What are they, prisoners? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I like the idea, but I think that making that much mandatory could be problematic. Here it wouldn't work. Kids don't even get home til 4:30. I had a paper to do earlier this month about requiring kids to do community service. The original proposal was for 50 hours over 4 years. My argument was that it should be 50 per year. I really think most kids can do that (and the few that really couldn't could get an exemption). I also suggested that ministry activities (not listed in the proposal) should count. As a teen, I did much in that regard and so do my children (my kids are a different religion than I was as a teen so I think that can cross religious boundaries). I think that should count. There is a lot of research that shows community service is good for kids though. And I can't think of anything bad about it. And though *I* like 10 hours per week, I just don't think that as many kids COULD do that. There are too many of those with other responsibilities and needs. And making it too cumbersome seems like it could really cause a problem with attitude and such. I wouldn't want the time requirement to detract from the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 When I was in high school, I played basketball, tutored during school, tutored after school, participated in Girl Scouts, was a Girl Scout leader, taught Sunday School, babysat, worked at Pizza Hut, worked at a gardening center, helped on the yearbook committee, raised funds for various school and non-school activities, and spent most of my weekends camping. I also took drivers ed, helped take care of my younger sisters, and squeezed in time to be lazy with friends and my boyfriend. I'm sure I'm forgetting something. Obviously these things weren't always simultaneous, but I was an extremely busy kid without being forced. I feel that forcing community service turns volunteering into a chore, rather than a desire to help. It's easier to drop a chore when your time is up than it is to quit a meaningful experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I'm of two minds about it. The kids that are hanging around on the street corners really could use something else to do. But if community service were forced on them, they'd probably just drop out to spend more time hanging on the streets. The kids that work for pay would have a hard time with it because it would cut into their paychecks. The kids that are overloaded with homework, society/clubs and sports would have a hard time completing their hours. But it does sound like something beneficial to the kids and their communities. I also like the idea of two years of government service between 18 and 28. Not meaning the military exclusively. It could be the military, an internship before or after further education (such as working with the park service, USGS, etc), or something like the Peace Corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I'm just curious about what you think the typical high schooler does during that time. Do you think they are all laying around playing video games or talking on the phone? Okay. I propose that that has value too. I really HATE to see that kids of all ages are constantly being over scheduled. What's wrong with being able to have some time to just goof off and relax and follow their own interests? I was an extremely busy kid without being forced. I feel that forcing community service turns volunteering into a chore, rather than a desire to help. It's easier to drop a chore when your time is up than it is to quit a meaningful experience. :iagree: I fully expect that my dc will be doing some kind of paying work and I fully expect that they will be spending lots of time on academics and pursuing personal interests that will hopefull yield fruitful futures for them later. In addition to that, I imagine they will be learning a lot about taking care of family, both in our home and church family. I expect they will be very active in our parish and homeschool associations if possible. For example, we take meals to fellow homeschoolers that might be sick or might mow the yard of an elderly widow at church. Those things aren't official "community services", but I certainly look at them as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I feel that forcing community service turns volunteering into a chore, rather than a desire to help. That is what I thought too until I saw the research showing otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I'm of two minds about it. The kids that are hanging around on the street corners really could use something else to do. But if community service were forced on them, they'd probably just drop out to spend more time hanging on the streets. The kids that work for pay would have a hard time with it because it would cut into their paychecks. The kids that are overloaded with homework, society/clubs and sports would have a hard time completing their hours. :iagree: But it does sound like something beneficial to the kids and their communities. I also like the idea of two years of government service between 18 and 28. Not meaning the military exclusively. It could be the military, an internship before or after further education (such as working with the park service, USGS, etc), or something like the Peace Corps. ahem.. and for gals like me who literally could not have fit that in their life between pregnancies, having babies, and caring for dying relatives? not really intending to be snarky, just saying... for me, I feel I DID plenty of service right from my own home during those years.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motherofjoy Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 As a graduation requirement, all students in grades 9-12 in our district must volunteer 30 hours in any given school year. They're allowed to when and where. The school provides ample opportunities, and the students can also choose their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only me Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 I think the problem is when the requirement becomes too much. For instance the school that my dd attends requires 8 hours a quarter. The school has other volunteer opportunities but they don't count for the 8 hours. My dd usually volunteers for these too. At times it has been very difficult for dd to find time even for the 8 hours. I really think that it is important that everyone (kids, teens and adults) has some free time. I also think that teens need sleep. With all of their responsibillities (homework, volunteering, sports, after school activities and jobs) it leaves little time for sleep. I think that can lead to other problems (depression, anxiety or just having trouble staying awake during the day). My dd has a classmate who gets top grades, is captain on the pom squad, dances 20 hours a week, has a part time job, volunteers in her church and even has a boyfriend. My dd will sometimes feel inadequate when she compares herself to this girl. I think it is rare that someone can do all of that and still maintain their health and sanity. This girl claims she only needs to sleep 4 hours a night. I wouldn't want my dd to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Isn't there something oxymoronic (not a real word, but a good one here) about "forced volunteerism?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Mandatory volunteer work. Hmmm. Something isn't making sense. Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaik76 Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I was a bit surprised by the suggestion that American school days are too short. I realize that some other countries have longer school days but I also think that is wrong too. It was proposed on another thread that all high schoolers should have to volunteer from 3-5 every day. I'm just curious about what you think the typical high schooler does during that time. Do you think they are all laying around playing video games or talking on the phone? My dd is a junior but she has pretty much had the same courseload every year. She is in a few honors level classes but the rest are regular. It seems that not only are teens expected to get perfect grades but have to show colleges that they did volunteer work and are involved in sports or a club. My dd is out of the house by 7 or so. She gets home from school at 3:30 if she doesn't have practice. She has poms practice twice a week from 3-5 and then games on Friday night. So Friday night she gets home at 3:30 but we have to leave the house again by 5:00. She used to dance 3-4 days a week but had to quit because she had too much homework. Every night she has at least 2-3 hours of homework but often more. There were weeks at a time last year that she had 5+ hours of homework a night and more on weekends. So typically she starts homework as soon as she gets home from school or from practice, stops for dinner, has a break when she takes a shower and finishes up by 11:00. She considers herself lucky if she can spend 15 minutes outside in the afternoon taking a walk or has a weekend afternoon free to spend with family or friends. DD has an easy practice scheduled compared to most other sports. Many people may think that sports are a waste of time and that they could use that time volunteering but I think that sports and other activities are very valuable to teens. I'm also finding that colleges expect students to do more than just excel in academics. She also has to complete 8 hours of community service a quarter. It may not seem like a lot but on top of all the homework it really isn't that easy to achieve. I can't imagine having to do 10 hours a week. I don't think community service should be mandated, so I am against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Academy of Jedi Arts Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Well, elementary and middle school students around here normally do some sort of afterschool program from 3-5 or so. Of course, those fortunate students that have a parent to pick them up or be waiting for them when school is out would have more options as to volunteer times. High school students could have more options. Volunteer work could be done during the school day just as many schools already have programs set up for students to work for part of the day and get credit for that. Older teens can volunteer at night when it is too late for younger kids to be out. I had to laugh a little because at 16 I was in college all day and working at night as a waitress to earn extra money. That was only for 2 years until I was old enough to work full time and attend school full time. Of course, I don't expect everyone to make the same choices or have the opportunity or ability to do what I did, but I know the stresses of being a student. I think it is awful that kids have to spend 5 hours doing homework (that isn't related to exams, papers, or projects). I know girls at our dance studio that struggle with so much. I know kids who HAVE to work after school to help support younger brothers and sisters. I don't think we have to add more on top of what those kids already have, just re-arrange things so that kids are required to do some service work before they graduate from elementary to middle to high school. I don't think 10 hours a week for the whole school year is necessary- maybe 10 hours a week for a semester and students could work on rotating schedules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I don't think 10 hours a week for the whole school year is necessary- maybe 10 hours a week for a semester and students could work on rotating schedules. Why don't we just go ahead and make joining a team sport another graduation requirement? In the off-season, students could be required to work a part time job. Somewhere in there, I'm sure they can squeeze in one club or another, and that can be made mandatory. Hey- if all of those things could be graded, think of all the students who would be able to earn a decent GPA even if they stink at math and reading. Those silly academics won't have to ruin their school experience. Hmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Quote: I feel that forcing community service turns volunteering into a chore, rather than a desire to help. That is what I thought too until I saw the research showing otherwise. Got a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 My son worked practically full-time through high school and homeschooled at the same time. He has saved more than $30,000 for college and a down-payment on a house. He has also spent some of his time helping others. I don't need anyone deciding what my son should be doing with his hours. I am a parent. How much longer will parents get to make decisions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Volunteering is a good thing but to force it during a set schedule would not work imo. WHen I was in highschool I was verymuch out of control in some areas, but in others I wasn't. I worked in an afterschool daycare from 3-6 everyday, then had homework, driver's training, chores, seasonal work I did, looking after my brother etc. I did volunteer but it was mainly in the summer time when I was only working f/t not working and school. I don't think some one could mandate that every teen has to volunteer during a certain time slot every day, if I had been forced to I would have had to quit my paying job to volunteer which would have led to a resentment and resistance to volunteer in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 My son worked practically full-time through high school and homeschooled at the same time. He has saved more than $30,000 for college and a down-payment on a house. He has also spent some of his time helping others. I don't need anyone deciding what my son should be doing with his hours. I am a parent. How much longer will parents get to make decisions? I agree. It's up to the parents. When the schools and parents make sure the students are learning, then we'll give them some more rope. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 My son worked practically full-time through high school and homeschooled at the same time. He has saved more than $30,000 for college and a down-payment on a house. He has also spent some of his time helping others. I don't need anyone deciding what my son should be doing with his hours. I am a parent. How much longer will parents get to make decisions? What did he do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 What did he do? He works with my husband who owns a lawn maintenance business. He started out five years ago saving half of what he earned, then upped it to 75 %, and now saves almost all of his paycheck except for car insurance, gas, CLEP preparation stuff and misc. things like paintballs. He invested his money in CDs. Each year he gets a $1.00 an hour raise -- this year earning $11 an hour. He starts community college in January, though, so he'll only be working in the summers unless he can handle a part-time night job. He wants to go into law enforcement. He's also taking martial arts, so he's been pretty busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 That is what I thought too until I saw the research showing otherwise. I'd be interested in seeing the details and variables involved as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Which thread did this spin off of? (Or should I say, off of which thread did this spin? :D) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Which thread did this spin off of? (Or should I say, off of which thread did this spin? :D) the selective service thread, i believe ;) http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62230 starting around post #124 or so. happy reading :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 ahem.. and for gals like me who literally could not have fit that in their life between pregnancies, having babies, and caring for dying relatives? not really intending to be snarky, just saying... for me, I feel I DID plenty of service right from my own home during those years.;) Well, see, there you go. The logistics would be a nightmare. I think the idea is a good one, just not one that could be implemented in this day and age of our country. It isn't feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 the selective service thread, i believe ;) http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62230 starting around post #124 or so. happy reading :D Thanks! I stopped reading that thread after the first page I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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