How much do you push? (second language)

[plain jane]

My rising 10th grader is academically driven and enjoys studying and learning (for the most part).  She's taken several WTMA courses and received very high grades in those as well as in her Lukeion Latin classes.  She is doing excellent with her Latin studies but she does find the studying to be fairly difficult and time consuming.

 

I have tried many times over the years to get her to pursue a second language other than Latin.  She's done a couple of years of Rosetta Stone French, a junior high level French class, and dabbled with BJU French I (a couple of years ago) but got bored of it and dropped it.  I don't think it's French in and of itself as she's not interested in taking Spanish, German, or any other language for that matter.

 

I don't want to push her and force her to take a course that she has no interest in, but I do feel strongly that a second language (or would it be a third, if she's taking Latin?) would be highly beneficial especially since she plans to attend university.  I am willing to pay for an online class like TPS French or to work through BJU French I with her again, but she doesn't want to.  She says that studying Latin is enough work and is not keen on learning Spanish/French/Chinese or any other language that I might suggest.  So far the only thing she is slightly open to is taking Greek through Lukeion.  :001_rolleyes:  (this is her idea, not mine; I would prefer she take a step away from the Classical languages and study a modern language)

 

I would like to hear from other parents whose kids are pursing an academic path regarding what you would do.  Would you just drop it given the child's disinterest?  Would you push and strongly encourage them to study either Spanish/French/German at least to a high school level (TPS French 3 is slated to be college level, so at least French 2)?  Would you put my foot down as a parent and force it?

 

FWIW, she plans to continue with Lukeion Latin until she has completed level 4, but that won't be until grade 12.  Is it asking too much to have her study Latin through the Lukeion Project and then take on a rigorous French program?

[RootAnn]

As the mom of a kid studying two languages who always tries to add a third or a fourth, they take a lot of time! Your high school electives are mostly sucked up with the second language.

 

So, IMO, I would drop your pushing and let her pick her own electives. She knows how to study another language so can add one whenever she wants (maybe in college?).

[J-rap]

I think completing two or three years of a foreign language is good for college admissions, but I assume her Latin will count for that.  Otherwise, unless she has a strong desire to learn another language beyond Latin, I don't think I'd worry about it.  Of my five kids, two were really passionate about learning a language in high school.  They went on to study for a year in a country that spoke that language, then studied it in college, and eventually became fluent and use it in their careers presently.  

 

My other three took three years of a language in high school, and really never did much beyond that and are fine.  They had other interests in high school and beyond that took precedence.  I can see a couple of them studying another language on their own someday, as a hobby,

[lllll]

nm

Edited October 3, 2016 by Cathi

[SkateLeft]

I would definitely look at the requirements for the colleges she might consider and plan accordingly. Some colleges want to see at least 2 or 3 years of a "modern foreign language."

 

My oldest had no interest in foreign language, but knew she had to get through it in order to meet college requirements.

[katilac]

The vast majority of colleges will accept Latin. I don't think I encountered any that dd was interested in that specified a modern language. We also googled stuff like "which colleges do not accept latin as foreign language" and did not find any that specified modern languages only (we did find some that stated ASL would not work). 

 

I would double-check a few in-state colleges to be sure, and any that happen to be on her radar already. If they don't specify modern, I would leave the decision up to her. 

[swimmermom3]

I am going to vote on the other side. :tongue_smilie:

 

The payoff that Latin does not have is actually getting to use it in travels and conversation.

 

My two older kids took the required 2-3 years of a foreign language (Spanish) and then dropped it as it became more difficult.

 

With our youngest, we took a different approach. We required four years of a modern foreign language from the beginning. When I didn't think he was progressing with his Spanish at a satisfactory rate after the first two years (with As at public high school), we found a great tutor/AP teacher and it's made a world of difference.  He has a bit of a different approach and I think it's made it easier and more enjoyable for our son to keep going in his language studies. We have had the same Spanish exchange student stay with us for three summers in a row. Last summer, ds went and stayed with him for a month in Spain. In another thread, I related that it was rewarding to hear our son recently explain to our French student in Spanish a word that I said in English. Both of our exchange students are trilingual.

 

Having a second language has created new opportunities for our son.  Part of me feel that as Americans we still really underestimate the value of a second language. 

[wintermom]

I am going to vote on the other side. :tongue_smilie:

 

The payoff that Latin does not have is actually getting to use it in travels and conversation.

 

My two older kids took the required 2-3 years of a foreign language (Spanish) and then dropped it as it became more difficult.

 

With our youngest, we took a different approach. We required four years of a modern foreign language from the beginning. When I didn't think he was progressing with his Spanish at a satisfactory rate after the first two years (with As at public high school), we found a great tutor/AP teacher and it's made a world of difference.  He has a bit of a different approach and I think it's made it easier and more enjoyable for our son to keep going in his language studies. We have had the same Spanish exchange student stay with us for three summers in a row. Last summer, ds went and stayed with him for a month in Spain. In another thread, I related that it was rewarding to hear our son recently explain to our French student in Spanish a word that I said in English. Both of our exchange students are trilingual.

 

Having a second language has created new opportunities for our son.  Part of me feel that as Americans we still really underestimate the value of a second language. 

 

I LOVE the idea of hosting an exchange student who speaks the language your child is studying. It is so motivating to have a real person to interact with and then go visit.  The tutor is a wonderful idea as well. Bringing the language "alive" can often be the key to sparking an interest to learn more.

 

It really does take a few years of study, though, so making the plan to start at a certain age so that there's time before college is important. I have to get going with my dc.  :eek:  My dc have been having too much fun with Latin. It's time to revisit one of the modern languages we touched on a couple years back and make some fun happen there, too. 

[Arcadia]

As the mom of a kid studying two languages who always tries to add a third or a fourth, they take a lot of time! Your high school electives are mostly sucked up with the second language.

I agree that is going to be a big time sink for a 10th grader to start learning a language to proficiency. My kids were given the choice of what they want for second language (both picked german) but they also have their native language (chinese) which hubby and I require our kids to be competent enough to not be embarrassing. However mine are going into 6th and 7th so they can afford the time commitment.

[MarkT]

DS took two years of Spanish (to check the box).

Future Engineer or Scientist

[swimmermom3]

DS took two years of Spanish (to check the box).

Future Engineer or Scientist

 

A future engineer or scientist that speaks basic conversational German may enjoy a semester abroad while in college, perhaps interning for an engineering firm?

 

Ds is required to prove two years of college-level foreign language proficiency for his bachelors in international service. As he met that requirement on his placement exam, the university requires him to take one advanced (300 +level class) in addition. He'll take that his first semester and then switch from Spanish to Arabic.  He will do a semester abroad and will either choose between Santiago, Chile or Jordan for Arabic immersion. Both programs can be tailored to his major with classes in economic development, conflict theory, and diplomacy as well as language immersion and an internship.

 

The world is a big, exciting place and languages open many doors.

Edited July 13, 2016 by swimmermom3

[madteaparty]

I push...I mean, I don't know that we have anything to show for the resources we've thrown into languages (because we don't do anything else) but he has to at least pretend to study. But, mine is in middle school. By the time he reaches high school I don't know that I will be able to push anymore. The least amount he will have then on any language is 2 years, so we stumble on.

The lukeion classes are intense (we couldn't hack them) so clearly your child has the discipline. Congratulations on that.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I won't push it.  My kid is planning to study German, but frankly I don't care if he does or doesn't.  Why?  Well, I guess because in my experiences of studying three languages I never gained enough proficiency to have even a basic conversation so I really do not see the point.  So unless it is an absolute requirement for a particular school I'd let the student decide.  A lot of schools who prefer to see it will often just have the student take a second language while in college if they don't take it in high school.

 

Probably the one language I was able to have a basic conversation in was Polish.  It wasn't so much the class that did that though.  I had a Polish speaking boyfriend and worked with many Polish speaking people.  So I had a sort of mini immersion opportunity.  Without that it's very difficult to learn another language. 

[regentrude]

?  Well, I guess because in my experiences of studying three languages I never gained enough proficiency to have even a basic conversation so I really do not see the point.  

 

Isn't that more a reflection on the quality of your language classes?

 

My personal experience with studying languages is radically different. I achieved fluency in both foreign languages taught in school, enough to be able to live and work in countries were either language is spoken (sadly, I lost one of them because I have not been using it), and am able to carry a basic conversation in the third language which I self studied.

I find languages immensely useful.

Edited July 13, 2016 by regentrude

[MarkT]

A future engineer or scientist that speaks basic conversational German may enjoy a semester abroad while in college, perhaps interning for an engineering firm?

 

Ds is required to prove two years of college-level foreign language proficiency for his bachelors in international service. As he met that requirement on his placement exam, the university requires him to take one advanced (300 +level class) in addition. He'll take that his first semester and then switch from Spanish to Arabic.  He will do a semester abroad and will either choose between Santiago, Chile or Jordan for Arabic immersion. Both programs can be tailored to his major with classes in economic development, conflict theory, and diplomacy as well as language immersion and an internship.

 

The world is a big, exciting place and languages many doors.

He doesn't like learning new languages and I did not push it. It's his life. (I took five years of French)

 

Colleges forcing second languages will be crossed off. He will survive.

 

I think if they started students here in AZ with some Spanish at the Elementary level then he may have felt different now.

[regentrude]

I would push for continuing the French, since she has a basis, but I would also inquire what she finds so appealing about Latin that she wants to continue. There has to be some reason for her preferring Latin over French.

In general, I would be more in favor of a modern language that is actually spoken, and my personal preference, if that were my student, would be to drop Latin in favor of French. However, I involve my kids in their schooling decisions and would not mandate the switch.

 

I would be hesitant to add a second foreign language without dropping anything because there is only so much time; I'd only do that if my student were very interested in languages.

 

FWIW, while I managed to get one of my kids to proficiency in both German (heritage language) and French, I spectacularly failed with the other kid and will have to settle for fluency in German for him. I find foreign languages by far the most difficult subject to homeschool and see this as the biggest shortcoming of my homeschool, compared to my own public school education.

Edited July 13, 2016 by regentrude

[SparklyUnicorn]

Isn't that more a reflection on the quality of your language classes?

 

My personal experience with studying languages is radically different. I achieved fluency in both foreign languages taught in school, enough to be able to live and work in countries were either language is spoken (sadly, I lost one of them because I have not been using it), and am able to carry a basic conversation in the third language which I self studied.

I find languages immensely useful.

 

I don't know.  I took German and Polish at a university.  I took Spanish in high school.

 

I think a major part of it is the fact foreign languages aren't generally started until 7th grade or even high school.  My husband was fluent in English, but he studied it starting right from the beginning when he entered school. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

He doesn't like learning new languages and I did not push it. It's his life. (I took five years of French)

 

Colleges forcing second languages will be crossed off. He will survive.

 

I think if they started students here in AZ with some Spanish at the Elementary level then he may have felt different now.

 

This is how I see it.  My husband was highly interested in our kids learning German, but he didn't make any effort in that direction.  That isn't entirely his fault, he works a lot so there isn't enough time to do so.  For awhile he was trying, but the kids started getting angrier and angrier because they never understood their dad (who they hardly saw and talked to).  So I said ya know, I think your relationship is more important than the second language.  So he stopped being nasty about it.  So after backing off NOW my older kid has come to us and said HE is interested in learning German.  So I think maybe he will if he sticks with it.