I'm losing hope

[Sharon H in IL]

I'm so sad. My 9 year old son cannot focus long enough to remember his times six multiplication table in order to do a few problems, when the answers are at the top of the page where he wrote them.

 

Either I am sitting right next to him performing the focusing function for him, or he drifts off and it takes him an hour to do 20 problems.

 

He's no different than many other boys, I'm sure. I seem to recall my younger brother acting similarly over his own homework years ago. But it's so discouraging.

 

If I hold my patience and my concentration to help him get through math, I have none left to deal calmly with my older son's whiny remark, and need to decompress for a long time.

 

I'm afraid I'll have to wait *years* for him to mature enough to be self-motivated to focus. And the prospect of that is enough to make me weep.

 

Does anybody have one of these kids? Does he get better? When?

[H.S. Burrow]

:grouphug:My DS was a little like this. He didn't take an hour to do an assignment...he would hurry through it and most of it would be wrong. We spent countless time going over his multiplication facts and he just didn't seem capable of remembering them.

 

Then he turned 10. We started school a month after his birthday and it is like I have a new child. I have read several articles posted on this forum related to math and age. They seem to perfectly describe my son.

 

I don't have time just now to search them out and link them, but I'll try to this afternoon.

[Gretchen in NJ]

I have no advice. I have girls. I just wanted to give you some :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:.

[Alenee]

Does he like sports? I have a friend whose son couldn't sit still and focus so while he shot baskets, she drilled him on his math facts. Worked great! Could your son do it while jumping rope, squeezing a squooshy ball, chewing gum????? Does it have to be written? The same info goes in orally! These are all suggestions given to kids with attention problems.

[clwcain]

Boys need to move in order for our brains to build the neural connections related to factual recall. To this day I memorize, recall, and think best when I'm free to pace. Drives some of my coworkers crazy, but they've learned to cope.

 

A few thoughts:

 

 

• Are your expectations of his ability to sit still and focus on written work unrealistic for his age and sex?
  
• Could you try a work 10 minutes, kick a ball in the yard for 5 minutes approach?
  
• Is he just not mentally ready to make the leaps necessary to intuit the tables?
  
• Can it be put off a week or a month and restarted?
  

 

Just my $0.02. HTH

[LG Gone Wild]

I'm so sad. My 9 year old son cannot focus long enough to remember his times six multiplication table in order to do a few problems, when the answers are at the top of the page where he wrote them.

 

Either I am sitting right next to him performing the focusing function for him, or he drifts off and it takes him an hour to do 20 problems.

 

He's no different than many other boys, I'm sure. I seem to recall my younger brother acting similarly over his own homework years ago. But it's so discouraging.

 

If I hold my patience and my concentration to help him get through math, I have none left to deal calmly with my older son's whiny remark, and need to decompress for a long time.

 

I'm afraid I'll have to wait *years* for him to mature enough to be self-motivated to focus. And the prospect of that is enough to make me weep.

 

Does anybody have one of these kids? Does he get better? When?

 

 

It takes him hours to do 4 or 5 problems. Granted they are long multiplication problems, 3-4 digits along. Not only that but they are riddled with careless errors. Like your kid, mine needs me intensely to get through it. Another thing is that my kid and maybe yours too, has a problem with following directions and carrying them out in the order given. One can't do math unless one follows directions exactly. Kiddo is apt to attempt problems the way he wants to do them. I've told him several times that he didn't know enough math to forge his own way.

 

Math bores him. Math is probably boring your kid too.

[ma23peas]

Have him TEST you! Turn the tables and don't show your frustration...MOMS can do all things...remember that! :) When my children struggled, I'd say, ya know, when I was that age it took me months to get the 7x facts..let's see if I can remember the 6x and you time me... actually by him looking at the flash cards (we use Saxon) and checking to see if YOU are correct HE will be putting the answers into his head without realizing it..

 

Many times I have my older kids grade the younger kids multiplication facts and it's mainly as a reinforcement for them. So make some fun out of it, my son loved timing me and I would purposefully miss an answer and he LOVED putting it in the 'missed' pile to be worked on at the end...it really works..

 

Tara

[MNClaire]

My son was like this, too, but with beginning math facts. It took him a whole year to get through the first 10 chapters of MathUSee Alpha. I thought he had a major learning disability on top of his ADHD and OCD. I took off the summer and picked up it up again at the start of 2nd grade. It clicked! We did 10 chapters in eight weeks. He's been flying through math ever since.

 

One of my homeschool mentors told me that whenever her children struggled with something (math, cursive handwriting), instead of making it into a big struggle, she would put it aside for a few months. Then she would bring it out again and...BOOM!! They were off and running with the subject.

 

Maybe your son needs some time for his brain to mature in that area. Give him a few months' break and maybe just do review sheets to keep math fresh, but nothing new. Maybe he will be ready for multiplication facts by that time. Hope that helps!

 

:grouphug:

[Kathleen in VA]

I sooooo sympathize with you. My two oldest were very much like this. I just want to come along side you and give you a great big hug. The main thing to remember is that, in the grand scheme of things, this is a very small problem. I think the others have offered excellent advice. Being a boy is greatly contributing to his behavior in this circumstance. I think that when a child is showing a great deal of resistance to learning something, it is a clue to us moms that perhaps the problem is not the child, but rather the task he is being asked to do or the way in which he is being asked to do it. Yes, he does need to eventually learn his multiplication facts. What you are doing now does not seem to be accomplishing this objective. You most likely need to switch gears in a big way.

 

First, you need to (for both your sakes) lower your expectations at this point. Ease up and relax, in other words.

 

Second, search out other approaches (some already mentioned here) to driving the facts home. I also recommend playing board games that require using the multiplication facts (Yahtzee, Muggins, Knock-Out to name a few). My youngest son learned all of his 6's and 7's easily because those are often used in football games. We also play a game called "Fizz-Buzz" which teaches the 5's and 7's. You go around the group one at a time counting from one through whenever someone messes up. Each time you come to a multiple of five the person is supposed to say "fizz" instead of the actual number. Each time you come to a multiple of seven, "buzz" is said. (Example: one, two, three, four, fizz, six, buzz, eight, nine, fizz, etc. - when you get to 35 the person says fizz-buzz. My kids think that's the funniest thing and they always want to be the person who says it - :D.) It's a real brain stretcher and can be done while in the car or around the table while eating.

 

Both my older boys have graduated and are doing fine in the "real" world. Neither one has the mind of an engineer, but they are wonderful young men that I truly love being around. (For the record, I also know several dear young men who do have the minds of engineers - not knocking math whizzes here.) My boys know their multiplication facts now (I did not push them after those first few years of high anxiety and stress) and they just picked them up out of necessity. My oldest worked as a bank teller for a year so got up to speed mathematically very quickly.;) Ds20 is a part-time computer salesman at Best Buy and does a lot of math pre-sale to help close deals so I guess he finally figured it out, too. They are both going to college part-time as well.

 

I am posting mainly to help you see the "forest" of life and to not get lost in the "trees" of math facts. I've been there and done that and found that it all works itself out eventually and the main thing to focus on during these precious years we have our children is character - not math. I realize math is necessary and therefore important in its own right, but I just want to encourage you to not lose hope over such a relatively minor glitch. Give him some time. Put math on the back burner. Try to incorporate it into everyday life - especially in those topics he's interested in. That may take a bit of creativity on your part, but that is one of the joys of homeschooling. We get to meet our children right where they are. Try not to be pressured by outside, artificial standards that may or may not be suited to your particular child.

 

Find a way to truly enjoy your son (all your children for that matter) and when a particular subject starts to cause grief and frustration don't let that become a sore point between you. I know it sounds radical, but I would just stop math altogether until I could get to a point where I could enjoy my child for who he is and not allow the bane of memorizing the multiplication table come between us. If it's gotten to the point where you've lost all patience, your relationship with him must come first - not math. There will be plenty of time for that later. What you can teach a 9yo in a year, you can teach a 16yo in a week.

 

My boys survived in spite of me. I am now able to be less stressed out with my other three. By God's grace the oldest have grown into dear, sweet men and, in all honesty, I couldn't ask for anything more than that.

 

Here is a link to a favorite article regarding teaching math to younger ones: http://www.triviumpursuit.com/blog/2007/04/03/teaching-math/

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Scarlett]

Boys need to move in order for our brains to build the neural connections related to factual recall. To this day I memorize, recall, and think best when I'm free to pace. Drives some of my coworkers crazy, but they've learned to cope.

 

A few thoughts:

 

 

• Are your expectations of his ability to sit still and focus on written work unrealistic for his age and sex?

• Could you try a work 10 minutes, kick a ball in the yard for 5 minutes approach?

• Is he just not mentally ready to make the leaps necessary to intuit the tables?

• Can it be put off a week or a month and restarted?

 

Just my $0.02. HTH

 

Thanks for an excellent post.

 

My own very bright 8.5 yo boy is much this same way (as you and the OP's son) Today he has a 20 problem math test that we've had to break down into 4 sessions. The first 8 problems I had him do while I was showering. I came back to perfect answers, but doodles all over the page. :glare:

 

He still hasn't learned his multiplication tables. His 4th grade math book is about to INSIST he learn them....I'm tapping my pencil against my forehead wondering how THAT is going to go. This from a boy who was barely four when I saw him counting on his fingers and I asked him 'whatcha doing ds?' 'Oh,' he replied off-handedly, 'just making sure that 3 3s is 9'.

 

I think this is just a perfect example of why my son (and yours OP) benefits from being hs'd. He would be so bored and behind and in trouble in school.

 

You received great advice in this thread. I know that with my ds I lower the number of problems ESPECIALLY when I know he gets the concept. I also let him move around (although it drives me NUTS).

 

:grouphug:

[Sharon H in IL]

Thanks, guys. I know he is going to learn (someday). We do math games that go along with our RightStart program, but we are still working on finishing last year's book, and some days are just one step forward, two back.

 

His older brother benefited from lots of movement and hard physical sports in order to get his brain in gear. This kid is different, and so I'm scrounging around trying different things.

 

He actually *likes* flashcards (shudder), so maybe we'll do more of that and let him do some computer math games.

 

Thanks for the understanding and support.

[H.S. Burrow]

Here is a link to a favorite article regarding teaching math to younger ones: http://www.triviumpursuit.com/blog/2007/04/03/teaching-math/

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:This is the main article I was searching for to give you. There are some great threads in the K8 forum also that address math and boys.

[gardenschooler]

Have you tried hopscotch? We just put in the multiples (6, 12, 18...) and do that over and over and over again. :) Maybe that's too girly, but it's worth a try. The ball idea is good, too.

 

I say anything that makes it painless, and gets it in his head, is worth trying. It doesn't have to be with paper and pencil.

 

:grouphug:

[Spy Car]

Boys need to move in order for our brains to build the neural connections related to factual recall. To this day I memorize, recall, and think best when I'm free to pace. Drives some of my coworkers crazy, but they've learned to cope.

 

A few thoughts:

 

• Are your expectations of his ability to sit still and focus on written work unrealistic for his age and sex?
  
• Could you try a work 10 minutes, kick a ball in the yard for 5 minutes approach?
  
• Is he just not mentally ready to make the leaps necessary to intuit the tables?
  
• Can it be put off a week or a month and restarted?
  

Just my $0.02. HTH

 

I don't share this common boy trait, but my son does, as do many other boys I know.

 

I think Chris has shared valuable advice. Try to break things up. Make sure he has a chance to move. Consider a sports-team. Try to make "learning" playful.

 

Bill

[JennW in SoCal]

You've gotten lots of excellent advice already about ways to modify what you are doing with him. I loved Kathleen's gentle post on seeing the forest of life instead of the trees of multiplication facts. Some kids really do march to a different beat, and it is hard to figure out what works and what doesn't.

 

My oldet son has some profound learning challenges including ADHD, and math facts have never stuck in his head very well. We did computer games (math blaster), flash cards, wrap ups, songs, manipulatives -- you name it, we tried it. For a long time I kept a multiplication grid out so he could look up answers as he worked, thinking some of the facts would finally stick that way. The frustrating part of it all is that he is brilliant at understanding mathematical concepts, story problems are his favorites, but computation of any kind simply undoes him.

 

At 16 he still has trouble focusing, but has learned some strategies for coping, for bringing himself back to task. I NEVER had him doing work sheets of 20 problems when he was 9 years old. Instead we used a white board and I worked as his scribe, or I'd write the problem out and he would do it in a favorite color in big numbers. A math tutor used to have him make up his own word problems.

 

Math time should be about learning mathematical concepts, not about sitting still and focusing. Give both of yourselves a break and enjoy some other subjects for a while. Let him play computer math games if he likes during the break.

 

Check out some of the ADHD threads on the Special Needs board and see if anything there resonates with you, read some books about it even. It doesn't mean your ds has it, but it might help you deal with him better.

[Laura Corin]

I started to ask Calvin how long he thought an exercise would take. He always set a short goal and usually made it. The self-set goal seemed to help him to focus.

 

He also had problems learning tables; we then used the stories from multiplication.com - he learned them in a week.

 

Laura

[Remudamom]

Bless his little heart, it's so rough to be a little boy and sit still. Let him wear himself out with some pushups or jumping jacks and try again.

[Sharon H in IL]

A long quiet evening and a little time with good books has put me in a more optimistic frame of mind.

 

OK, you've sold me. I'm putting away the RightStart text, and we'll do games and his beloved flashcards.

 

We need to get cracking on Latin anyways. This will free up more time, eh? :lol:

[Mom2boys]

I sooooo sympathize with you. My two oldest were very much like this. I just want to come along side you and give you a great big hug. The main thing to remember is that, in the grand scheme of things, this is a very small problem. I think the others have offered excellent advice. Being a boy is greatly contributing to his behavior in this circumstance. I think that when a child is showing a great deal of resistance to learning something, it is a clue to us moms that perhaps the problem is not the child, but rather the task he is being asked to do or the way in which he is being asked to do it. Yes, he does need to eventually learn his multiplication facts. What you are doing now does not seem to be accomplishing this objective. You most likely need to switch gears in a big way....

 

 

Here is a link to a favorite article regarding teaching math to younger ones: http://www.triviumpursuit.com/blog/2007/04/03/teaching-math/

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Thank you so much for your post! I am not the OP, but I found your post to be really helpful for my own math struggles with ds11. :)

[lovemyboys]

Put the math down and back slowly away. Do not touch it again until after Thanksgiving. Instead, play dice games, the game Equate, card games (modified UNO) with him. Do not in any way do math.

 

When you resume, he should be MOVING. Standing up to do the math work. Turn down the heat in the house---68 degrees. He should recite his facts while he is jumping, doing pushups, jumping jacks.

 

At least that is what worked for us.

 

 

Drop and give me 7 x 7, ds. :lol:

 

Great advice here from everyone. Ds here learns by leaps like you mention, PJ.

 

And fwiw, my dear discipuli are in constant motion, I am convinced oldest one thinks and learns much more clearly this way and he is capable of receiving and processing multiple stimuli. Just when I think he's zoned out on something because his attention seem elsewhere, he can repeat verbatim what we've been up to. So, I am adjusting to the fact that a room full of messy busy boys probably means that lots of learning is going on. :)

[Sharon H in IL]

I actually have that CD, Patty Joanna! And the boys have listened to it with me. Once Stephen lay on the back of the loveseat under a row of windows to do his reading, because as Mr. Pudewa had said, he learned better when he was cooler. :lol:

 

And yes, it is wonderful. It fits my older son more than the younger, though, so I hadn't been thinking in its terms till now.

 

Today we used IKnowThat.com games for math, and that was much more pleasant for us all. ;)