When you hate your kid's homework...

[Garga]

We did a science fair with the homeschool group this year. It was such a chore! My dh and I tried our best to get our son interested and to take a lead, but he was miserable the entire time. He ended up winning 2nd place in his age group, but I'm not sure that was enough to erase how much he hated doing the project.

 

With an unwilling child, these sorts of projects are just brutal. I did my best not to let it show, but I was feeling so frustrated and angry at how helpless my son was acting. My dh had to take over the project because I just couldn't stand to watch my son shuffle around and act helpless through the whole thing.

 

(ETA: When I say I had my dh take over the project, I mean he had to be the one goading my son on. DH didn't do the work, but he was the one to tell ds to get working and make sure he was completing each step.)

 

Sometimes once a kid is convinced that it's too hard or complicated, they just totally shut down. That's what happened with my son. He absolutely could have done the project with minimal fuss, but it was like there was a wall in front of him and he couldn't move forward.

 

I feel for you, OP.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Garga

[luuknam]

Oh, and we also just finished watching "How we got to now" on Netflix, and it talks about inventions, and how often an inventor might have an idea and it takes decades to get it to something workable, or it takes a large number of different people, or w/e. Just as a reminder that it takes a lot more than one person to invent a light bulb, even if only one is remembered. My 8yo really liked the series.

[wathe]

I've always wanted something that would hold a jar over the pot to drain out the last of the sauce. Does that exist?

 

Wooden chopsticks.  Lay a pair of chopsticks on parallel across the top of the pot, about an inch apart.  Place upside down jar on the chopstick platform.  

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Hmm.  My dd did Invention Convention in 2nd/3rd combined grades G&T class.  No rule that said it couldn't exist already.   Only rule was that it had to be made from re-purposed materials.  The kids all loved it, maybe because the teacher made sure it was fun. They came up with some amazing things, and some lame things, but they were all things I would never have thought of doing.  I thought it was a great project.  

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Wooden chopsticks.  Lay a pair of chopsticks on parallel across the top of the pot, about an inch apart.  Place upside down jar on the chopstick platform.  

 

I always put a tiny bit of water in the jar (about a tablespoon), close the lid, and shake the jar to rinse off the remaining sauce.  I pour that into the pot, leaving just a film of sauce remaining on the glass.  It makes very little difference in the thickness of the sauce.

[Mbelle]

What happens if you just decide to skip that project or do something you like better?

 

I guess there would be an F, but does that matter in Elementary school?  

 

I'm just genuinely curious. 

 

eta  I see it's an exceptional  PS, so I guess they could get uninvited to return for that.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Mbelle

[heartlikealion]

You don't need a whole muffin pan maybe. They sell individual silicon muffin wrappers. Not maybe as good of a shape, though. You could maybe get a full size silicone cup or such if that works better.

 

I hate stuff like this, too. I have ideas, but making prototypes? Ugh.

 

I sometimes think about buying that thing that holds your lid when you're not using it. I hate trying to awkwardly set the hot lid down horizontally on the range.

[lmrich]

But there is probably some kid who loves this project. You are not going to like every creative assingment, but it should not be a deal breaker for you and your family. I think this is a good time to learn to roll with it. It is ok if he doesn't knock this out of the park. I think it is a fun assignment for a creative - engineer type kid. 

 

I invented a cookie warmer. It was basically like a little mug warmer before those were around. I used a heating pad, made a little cover it and put a chocolate chip cookie on it so you could have that just out of the oven experience anytime. (this was also before microwave ovens were popular) - My teacher loved cookies so I got an A; if she had been a health nut - who knows. 

[LucyStoner]

Overly picky teachers would result in a low grade. So would lack of organizational skills.

 

 

I guess my idea of an accelerated program is one in which the work is consistently challenging and pushing children with an extremely high IQ to push the limits of their abilities--including in terms of organizational skills and creativity.

 

In the fifth grade, every single child in our school district, including in specially accommodated classrooms, does a science fair project, plays an instrument in a concert, does a model of an architectural feat, and does a 10-page report (double spaced) on an historical figure.

 

Some of the projects really suck and not because the kids are stupid but because they spend zero time on it.

 

They still do it, and we do not have a 0% prevalence of ADHD in this district. There are kids with all kinds of disabilities AND no high IQ who manage.

 

So, no, I really think that if you absolutely cannot do a project like that without your parents help at the age of 10--not, "can't get an A", not "can't do it without whining", not, "don't do it until the last minute" but really cannot do it at all, then you need to be in a program with extensive supports. Not in a program in which the goal is to challenge extremely highly capable and talented children to push themselves to the limits.

 

Please note I am not suggesting anyone is stupid.

 

If the kid got in because they are a testing genius, then again, not saying the kid is stupid, but that's not the program for them. They need a program that speaks to and works with their strengths.

 

Otherwise, if the program is going to cater to the lowest ability of every kid there, it's not going to be very challenging for gifted kids at all.

This sort of thinking is why we just laugh and laugh when people assume that because our son is gifted that he would be well served in a gifted education program. Then we breathe and laugh some more.

 

This particular assignment is up my son's alley. He'd enjoy it and get something done. That said, there are so many other assignments that no, not with his brains or his carefully developed study skills would he be able to do it without teacher or parent support.

 

It's also not like there's generally a choice between gifted programs. One size does not fit all.

 

We know a lot of people in your district. Many complain about the homework loads, among other issues. Unless you are in every classroom you don't really know if all of the 5th graders are meeting the assignment load. And if you think all of the kids are doing everything without any parental assistance or with minimal assistance, you are giving the parents far too much in the way of the benefit of the doubt.

 

ETA- most of the kids who we know from your district we come into contact with through the myriad of programs for highly capable/gifted students that my older son does in this area. Most of the parents are highly involved in their child's education and helping them organize their lives. Many are shelling out money for tutors and lessons.

 

Most of the gifted students I know, even those who are neurotypical, have areas of strength and areas of relative weakness. It is, in part, the inadequacy of the gifted school programs around here that led us to homeschooling. A gifted student who lags in one area would be poorly served by being shunted out just because they have to struggle a bit more in one area.

 

Needing to work hard at something is not an indication that someone is not gifted. Not being interested in something is not an indication that a child is not gifted. Disliking or hating to do stuff one doesn't like is human. Developing the work ethic to persist through that dislike is a learned skill that takes years and exceeds most 10 year olds.

 

So many homework assignments are just not that helpful. I would prefer in a case like this that the classroom lecture be the homework (streaming video) and the project be done in class. This reverse approach to homework is working well in some districts.

Edited April 28, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Bluegoat]

Well at 10 in a G&T program if you can't do this assignment, probably wrong program, but still.

 

Gosh, I don't know about that.  I can't see why gifted kids would be able to do this without more direction than they seem to have been given.  And not all gifted kids are necessarily mechanically oriented.

[Bluegoat]

Overly picky teachers would result in a low grade. So would lack of organizational skills.

 

 

I guess my idea of an accelerated program is one in which the work is consistently challenging and pushing children with an extremely high IQ to push the limits of their abilities--including in terms of organizational skills and creativity.

 

In the fifth grade, every single child in our school district, including in specially accommodated classrooms, does a science fair project, plays an instrument in a concert, does a model of an architectural feat, and does a 10-page report (double spaced) on an historical figure.

 

Some of the projects really suck and not because the kids are stupid but because they spend zero time on it.

 

They still do it, and we do not have a 0% prevalence of ADHD in this district. There are kids with all kinds of disabilities AND no high IQ who manage.

 

So, no, I really think that if you absolutely cannot do a project like that without your parents help at the age of 10--not, "can't get an A", not "can't do it without whining", not, "don't do it until the last minute" but really cannot do it at all, then you need to be in a program with extensive supports. Not in a program in which the goal is to challenge extremely highly capable and talented children to push themselves to the limits.

 

Please note I am not suggesting anyone is stupid.

 

If the kid got in because they are a testing genius, then again, not saying the kid is stupid, but that's not the program for them. They need a program that speaks to and works with their strengths.

 

Otherwise, if the program is going to cater to the lowest ability of every kid there, it's not going to be very challenging for gifted kids at all.

 

 

The problem with this project as I see it - and I did it in the gifted program at that age - is that they don't give an adequate explanation of what is required, and they don't pass on the skills necessary to do it.

 

Does the model actually have to work?  Or can it be notional, with an explanation?  It doesn't seem at all clear.

 

If it really has to work, that really limits the possibilities.  Kids can think of many things they could never actually build. 

 

If it's notional, what needs to be explained?  Does it have to include mechanisms that would really do the job?  For instance, can the child say the machine somehow empties a liquid from a reservoir, or does there need to be some kind of explanation that a pump will be used (or whatever?)  Plenty of gifted kids won't know anything about things like pumps or other machines.

 

And the further away you get from these kinds of requirements, the lamer the assignment gets.  Thinking "I'd like to invent something that keeps feet from smelling" and saying you will do it with chemicals, and mixing a few baking ingredients in a jar with holes in the lid is not a very useful of challenging project. 

 

Inventing things involves a lot of specialized skills.  How does a person figure out what kind of materials would not melt under certain conditions, without just asking a parent?  Why would any 10 year old know that?

 

I think this is a great in-classroom, scaffolded project.  But I suspect a lot of teachers don't actually have the skills to do the project either, so it doesn't happen that way.

[EKS]

The GT ed world thinks that gifted children should be little inventors, scientists, and historians.  Never mind that REAL inventors, scientists, and historians are EXPERTS who have become experts only through YEARS of study and practice.  I think that part of the problem is that the educationists who come up with this stuff are not experts themselves in anything but education.  They truly have no idea what it means to be creative in a discipline like science.

[luuknam]

The GT ed world thinks that gifted children should be little inventors, scientists, and historians.  Never mind that REAL inventors, scientists, and historians are EXPERTS who have become experts only through YEARS of study and practice.  I think that part of the problem is that the educationists who come up with this stuff are not experts themselves in anything but education.  They truly have no idea what it means to be creative in a discipline like science.

 

Quite frankly, I think a lot of them are not even experts in education. Experts in classroom management, maybe.

[EKS]

Quite frankly, I think a lot of them are not even experts in education. Experts in classroom management, maybe.

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt...

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I think the worst part of this assignment is the requirement that the invention be something that no one has ever thought of before.  That's a lot of pressure to put on a kid.  I would think that inventing something that was new in their world, and useful to them or someone they know, would be much more realistic.  

 

When my dd's class did this, the only requirement was that it have a useful purpose and that they only use previously used materials.  The kids looked around their house/garage/yard for used up stuff (scrap wood, an old hose, whatever) and put them together to create something new, then they demonstrated how their invention could be used.  It was fun for everyone.  I believe they were graded on their presentations and deadlines and stuff like that, more than on the invention itself.

[eternalsummer]

Quite frankly, I think a lot of them are not even experts in education. Experts in classroom management, maybe.

 

To be completely fair, I tried teaching secondary school.  I failed (spectacularly) because I couldn't figure out classroom management.

 

I agree that many teachers are basically just competent at classroom management, but without that competency, there is no use in being good at any of the other aspects of teaching.