physics first...who has done this? College input??

[pjssully]

I am just beginning to research science for my freshman twin boys next fall and trying to decide on biology or physics.  I am not sure I really understand the whole reasons behind the physics first movement so could someone fill me in on this?  What do colleges think about this approach?  How have your children done if you have gone this way?  I really am just looking for any discussions on this issue so I am well informed when I make a decision.

 

Thanks so much

 

pam

[maize]

The reasoning is, I believe, that physics is the foundational science and that other fields of study such as chemistry and biology will be better understood once a basic understanding of physics is in place. The challenge is that most ninth graders do not have the math background for a regular introductory physics course so you may be limited to conceptual physics. I think conceptual physics can in fact be a good starting point, but I would want to follow it up later with a more rigorous physics course for most students. One progression would then be conceptual physics in 9th, chemistry and biology in 10th and 11th, and physics again in 12th. 

 

Actually, my ideal would be integrated or multi-strand science throughout the high school years, as is taught in some other countries. 

[regentrude]

We have done physics first.

It makes sense from a conceptual approach since physics is the most fundamental of sciences and all systems, even biological ones, must obey the laws of physics. Chemistry is really just an application of physics, and biology uses a lot of chemistry. The only reason schools teach biology first is the delay in math instruction: physics requires math.

Both my kids started with algebra based physics in 9th grade.

 

Colleges do not care.

Having physics at all is a bonus in a country where  a "high school" can get away without even offering physics.

Edited April 19, 2016 by regentrude

[foxbridgeacademy]

What Regentrude said  ;) .

 

Here's our planned schedule

 

Conceptual Physics

Chemistry

Biology

Physics (at CC)

 

I've looked at several Universities requirements and none of them say anything about what grade to take what course.

Edited April 19, 2016 by foxbridgeacademy

[lisabees]

We did physics first - for both a STEM and non-STEM kid.

 

The only difference was that the non-STEM kid did Conceptual Physics, because she wasn't ready, mathematically, for anything else.

 

 

[Sunshine State Sue]

We did physics in 9th grade for the simple reason that it was the only science class I could find that was easily outsourced.  :blushing:  Ds had a solid Algebra foundation already.  Read my review of Derek Owens physics here.  Ds earned a B in the honors course.  With 20/20 hindsight, I probably wouldn't have pushed the honors part.

 

From Derek Owens FAQs:

Is it better to take Physics as your first science course or your last?

It can work well either way. Whether the course is a good course or not will depend primarily on other factors, such as the quality of the instruction and the motivation of the student. Putting Physics first or last in the science curriculum is not a "make it or break it" issue. Mr. Owens has taught Physics and Honors Physics as students' first high school science course, and AP Physics as students' last high school science course.

 

He earned a B in Physics 1 at his STEM school freshman year first semester while taking Calc 2, Chemistry, Intro to CS, and playing on the basketball team.

He earned an A in Physics 2 sophomore year first semester.  He had a somewhat easier load that semester plus he was more used to the level of academics.

 

HTH!

Edited April 20, 2016 by Sue in St Pete

[MarkT]

I did Physics first before Chem and Bio (many decades ago).

DS did Physics first.

 

It's the right approach IMHO.

[birchbark]

Novare actually has a write-up on doing physics first.

 

 

[ElizabethB]

There is a local STEM school here that does 3 classes, then the rest at your school or homeschool. They start the 7th grade cohort with conceptial physics, algebra, and intro to research. (Basic stats, experiment set up, etc.) It might be a good fit for my son next year or the year after, we went to their meeting and heard the why of physics first and had him take their test. Interestingly, he said their 40 minute puzzle section was just like some of the work we have done as part of our school, and he found that part easy. I did not realize the 7th grade was a cohort, not 7th grade, so we will see if he did well enough on the math to get in this year, we went assuming he would apply next year and ending up having one day to review math before the test.

Edited April 20, 2016 by ElizabethB

[Mike in SA]

The reasoning is, I believe, that physics is the foundational science and that other fields of study such as chemistry and biology will be better understood once a basic understanding of physics is in place. The challenge is that most ninth graders do not have the math background for a regular introductory physics course so you may be limited to conceptual physics. I think conceptual physics can in fact be a good starting point, but I would want to follow it up later with a more rigorous physics course for most students. One progression would then be conceptual physics in 9th, chemistry and biology in 10th and 11th, and physics again in 12th. 

 

Actually, my ideal would be integrated or multi-strand science throughout the high school years, as is taught in some other countries. 

 

:iagree: This

 

We have done physics first.

It makes sense from a conceptual approach since physics is the most fundamental of sciences and all systems, even biological ones, must obey the laws of physics. Chemistry is really just an application of physics, and biology uses a lot of chemistry. The only reason schools teach biology first is the delay in math instruction: physics requires math.

Both my kids started with algebra based physics in 9th grade.

 

Colleges do not care.

Having physics at all is a bonus in a country where  a "high school" can get away without even offering physics.

 

:iagree: And this

[elegantlion]

We did physics first, it was conceptual physics, then he did Astronomy, Biology, Physics (algebra based). One reason was because I read about physics first from other posters here, and ds was eager to understand physics and cared nothing about biological sciences. There's a long story about why chemistry is not in the mix, but I would have put it between Astronomy and Biology had our circumstances been different. 

[JoJosMom]

Novare actually has a write-up on doing physics first.

 

Excellent link.  Thank you for sharing.

[SanDiegoMom]

My daughter at PS took Hon Physics her freshman year. It required Alg 2 previously or taken concurrently. She took it concurrently. It was a struggle, due to her not being Stem focused to begin with, and also being her first year on a block schedule with a year's worth of material in a semester. If it had been conceptual she might have done better, or not honors, or not block scheduling... But that was our experience. It was an extremely rigorous school too with very high expectations. We were thrilled she passed:-)

 

Her friend who IS Stem focused took Hon Physics the first semester and AP physics the next. She did well academically, though she definitely worked extremely hard and devoted a lot of time to it.

[Half-Elven]

We are using the Physics first approach.  Physics is fundamental to Chemistry.  Modern Biology has biochemical concepts.  They will understand these biochemical concepts more having had the Physics and Chemistry background.

 

We did Algebra based Physics this year

Chemistry for next year (fall of 2016)

Biology

*For Senior Year, it could be Advanced Chemistry, Physics, or Biology, depends on interest)