MrsWeasley Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 One of my kids tells herself very negative stories about the events in her day that escalate her anger and frustration, leading her to lose control of herself. For example, both of my older kids like to sit in the chair in the kitchen closest to the heating vent. We've tried several methods for sharing this seat. Whenever it isn't her turn, though, she tells herself a story about how her brother just wants the seat to make her miserable, that I let him have the seat because I am in collusion against her, etc... At best I get a child stomping around the house, whining, and slamming doors. At worse, she takes out this anger on me or her siblings. She is like this about most things that don't go her way. It makes her difficult to live with and makes it very difficult for her to make friends. She's a very dreamy child, prone to fantasy. We've talked about how we can do "magic" to change reality by the words we tell ourselves, and while she likes the idea outside of the moment, in the moment such a suggestion provides proof about how I'm against her. How do I stop this escalating negative self-talk in the moment? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 How old is she? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsWeasley Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 Newly 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Since you know ahead of time at least one thing that will trigger this anger, you can help direct some of the self talk ahead of time. Before her turn ends, talk to her about how her turn is going to end and that it will then be someone else's turn. Give her a script. "Someone else has a turn. I had a turn before and I will get a turn again." I had to do that with my son for a long time before one day he actually used my script. You might also brain storm with her outside of the moment for some positive things she might do when she doesn't get her way. For the heating vent scenario, it might be having a fuzzy blanket at the non-heated chair that she can bundle up in. And yes, I know that it isn't just the heating vent but I'm using that since that is the only example you gave. ;) 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Cognitive behavioral therapy. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I think you might just need to be patient/persistent if your goal is to get her to recognize this phenomenon in herself, in the moment... She seems too young for that level of detached self-observation. It will probably take years. In our family I explain a lot of things by the general understanding that our brains (everyone's) don't always do what we want or what makes sense -- but it's very hard to notice when it's happening to ones self. Often we notice later. I often talk about this when I apologize for my own over reactions. We call this "the book of small troubles" and I use examples to say what 'small trouble' is on the first page, the 2nd page, etc. (events that are true) Then I "add the cover" and make up a title and create the theme (these things are choices) and sometimes I even add pages (about others' motives, or the should-haves) or make up a final page (of catastrophic results). It's important to convey that this feels real at the time, and that one's brain does it without permission, and it's normal to believe that 'the book of small troubles' is the truth -- it's a thing that happens to everyone. It does happen to everyone, few people catch it, and I don't think a 9 year old really will. You can just build the beginnings of recognition. As for 'stopping the escalating self talk in the moment' -- I'd treat it as an issue of ordinary good manners and use scripting techniques. (Scripting is where you repeat the sense of what a child is trying to say, in words that are more acceotable for conversing about it instead of fighting about it. Then you proceed as if the child had said the polite thing instead of what they really said. Eventually you move to having them repeat the 'translation' and then to 'trying again' for themselves.) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Also, a concrete 'turn indication' rather than a conversation might help it feel less like a conflict. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 this is a baby-steps project. she needs to rephrase things in one positive way. come up with something everyday for which she is grateful (specific and concrete.) something everyday that she feels good about - and if it takes her an hour to think of something, it takes her an hour to think of something. . . . . . she doesn't get "out" of it. it will get easier with exercise of looking for the positives. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forty-two Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 She's a very dreamy child, prone to fantasy. We've talked about how we can do "magic" to change reality by the words we tell ourselves, and while she likes the idea outside of the moment, in the moment such a suggestion provides proof about how I'm against her. How do I stop this escalating negative self-talk in the moment? My 7yo dd sounds similar to your dd - she's very imaginative and she feels things very strongly, and her current emotion determines how she understands reality - determines the stories she tells. She ends up "rewriting history" a lot, changing her story about what happened until she comes up with something that I will agree makes her current (over) reaction legitimate. Since her current reaction is a product of her overwhelming Big Feelings about the situation - and seems to her like the *only* possible way to feel about such a horrible reality - I think she's flexible about the words she uses to convey this reality because they are "less real" to her than the situation-and-her-feelings-about-the-situation (all one thing in her mind) itself. Whatever words convince me that the situation's as bad as she feels it is - those must be the right words. Which is to say, she doesn't see any meaningful difference between "what reality is" and "how I should feel about reality", and so she doesn't see a difference between "words can change how you *feel* about reality" and "words can change *reality*" - and reality is way more "real" to her than the words used to describe it. So she resists my attempts to help her see that reality's not as bad as she thinks - because she's 100% invested in feeling like it *is* - and what she wants isn't to "feel better", but for people to validate her "totally justified" feelings. (Which has been hard for me to grasp, because when I feel bad, I want to *quit* feeling bad.) So if she's so upset about something that she feels the only way to understand how others could persist in letting the situation go on is because they maliciously *want* her to feel this way (because how else could you look on such suffering and not be moved to intervene???) - she will resist any other story that doesn't do full justice to the depth of her feelings. My tendency is to try to make the situation seem "less bad" in order to help her feel "less badly" about it - and she will resist that with everything in her. It just reinforces her view that *only* malice aforethought is enough to explain the horrors she is experiencing. Instead, I have to both acknowledge the full depth of her feelings about the situation while helping her situate her pain within a wider *positive* understanding of others' behavior toward her. She's not able to accept the possibility of positive explanations until she's sure that I completely understand - and take seriously - the *depth* of the pain she's feeling. I have to be able to completely accept the reality of her Big Feelings before she'll trust that maybe I know what I'm talking about when I say the situation wasn't maliciously caused. I've had some success with comparing the pain she feels at not getting her turn with the pain her sibling would feel at not getting *their* turn - that they don't want to hurt her by taking their turn any more than *she* wants to hurt *them* by taking *her* turn. And it helps, in calm moments, to try to understand what about the situation hurts so much, and think of ways to help alleviate it. (In the chair situation, is it the warmth, or the view, or what? So that extra blankets or something might make the alternative less painful.) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Frustrating for you I'm sure, but she sounds very creative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Ah. I have a 9yo who does this. I have told her to stop lying to herself. Lately I have been telling her that she owes an apology to the people she has wronged during her little tantrums. She does apologize and get over herself. I think this helps in that she states a more true version of the situation as part of her apology. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsWeasley Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 Which is to say, she doesn't see any meaningful difference between "what reality is" and "how I should feel about reality", and so she doesn't see a difference between "words can change how you *feel* about reality" and "words can change *reality*" - and reality is way more "real" to her than the words used to describe it. So she resists my attempts to help her see that reality's not as bad as she thinks - because she's 100% invested in feeling like it *is* - and what she wants isn't to "feel better", but for people to validate her "totally justified" feelings. (Which has been hard for me to grasp, because when I feel bad, I want to *quit* feeling bad.) So if she's so upset about something that she feels the only way to understand how others could persist in letting the situation go on is because they maliciously *want* her to feel this way (because how else could you look on such suffering and not be moved to intervene???) - she will resist any other story that doesn't do full justice to the depth of her feelings. My tendency is to try to make the situation seem "less bad" in order to help her feel "less badly" about it - and she will resist that with everything in her. It just reinforces her view that *only* malice aforethought is enough to explain the horrors she is experiencing. Instead, I have to both acknowledge the full depth of her feelings about the situation while helping her situate her pain within a wider *positive* understanding of others' behavior toward her. She's not able to accept the possibility of positive explanations until she's sure that I completely understand - and take seriously - the *depth* of the pain she's feeling. I have to be able to completely accept the reality of her Big Feelings before she'll trust that maybe I know what I'm talking about when I say the situation wasn't maliciously caused. I've had some success with comparing the pain she feels at not getting her turn with the pain her sibling would feel at not getting *their* turn - that they don't want to hurt her by taking their turn any more than *she* wants to hurt *them* by taking *her* turn. And it helps, in calm moments, to try to understand what about the situation hurts so much, and think of ways to help alleviate it. (In the chair situation, is it the warmth, or the view, or what? So that extra blankets or something might make the alternative less painful.) Often, it seems like validating her emotions, especially anger and frustration, gives her permission, in her eyes, for aggression, no matter how many times I tell her that she may not hurt others no matter how angry she gets. To her, righteous anger justifies aggression. She's very interested in fairness, and fairly committed to the idea that if she hurts it's only fair that the person who she blames for that hurt is hurt in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsWeasley Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 Ah. I have a 9yo who does this. I have told her to stop lying to herself. Lately I have been telling her that she owes an apology to the people she has wronged during her little tantrums. She does apologize and get over herself. I think this helps in that she states a more true version of the situation as part of her apology. She still struggles with apologies: it's pretty rare I hear a genuine apology. As she calms, she does seem more other interpretations of reality than her own, but she is also pretty invested in saving face, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 For one of my ds, when he's being extra moody, before bed, we'll do a few weeks of what we call "three good things." Usually it's three good things that happened today (dinner was tacos, I got to play Minecraft for half an hour, my favorite shirt was clean and I got to wear it, the weather was sunny, it was park day, friend was at park day... whatever... just little things usually) and three good things that are coming (could be big things like a trip in a couple of months or a holiday or birthday coming up or little things like soccer practice where I see friends is tomorrow or medium things like we have tickets to see a play next week). This dramatically helps him reframe his thinking. The sad and moody stuff is still there, but we just have to present evidence to him that it's not the totality of his existence. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forty-two Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Often, it seems like validating her emotions, especially anger and frustration, gives her permission, in her eyes, for aggression, no matter how many times I tell her that she may not hurt others no matter how angry she gets. To her, righteous anger justifies aggression. She's very interested in fairness, and fairly committed to the idea that if she hurts it's only fair that the person who she blames for that hurt is hurt in return. We're Christian, and I emphasize a *lot* about how it's wrong to return evil for evil, and that instead we are to return good for evil. It's *never* right to try to make others hurt - no matter *what* they did to us. Edited March 25, 2016 by forty-two 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisoncooks Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I have one like this. We actually see it in her recollections of when she was little. She'll say "Do you remember this and this?" and her memory is almost always negative and completely WRONG! I totally don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 The science of memory and cognition is fascinating. It's well worth explaining young that while their brain is 'trying to help' -- the shortcuts it takes and the ways it creates memories just aren't 100% reliable. Memories should be treated as 'inspired by a true story' not as facts. Yes, even our own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) http://www.therapistaid.com/therapy-worksheet/challenging-negative-thoughts Not an uncommon phenomenon "Challenge negative thoughts" and "positive self-talk" are good search terms to use to find more resources. The Great Courses have a couple of series on the topic. This article references some of what bolt mentioned: http://www.wsj.com/articles/but-you-never-said-why-couples-remember-differently-1427131128 Edited March 26, 2016 by MomatHWTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I would not allow her to tell lies, stomp around, slam doors, whine, or be nasty to others. Any of those behaviors would result in an immediate correction the first time it happens and a negative consequence for each instance after that (or I might skip right to the consequence, depending on how the day has gone). You know what consequences would work best for her. Helping her change her outward behavior will eventually help her change her inner attitude. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 No advice -- just :grouphug: We have one like this who is now 12 and it just seems to be getting worse as time goes on. We will be going to family counseling shortly to help us all move in a positive direction together. It's terribly draining on the whole family and I'm at my wit's end. :( 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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