Discouraged re spelling, doesn't retain,

[sbgrace]

I have a 12 year old who is a weak speller.

 

We used a rule based program for several years and finally left because he just didn't have a visual memory for words. So he would spell remembering all the rules but pick the wrong phonogram. He didn't retain words when we finally felt they were mastered. He did pass the Barton Screening. He's a voracious reader.

 

We did all four books of Apples and Pears. I felt it was successful. He seemed to retain and made good progress.

 

I went to Spelling Power after Apples and Pears because he still has work to do in spelling. I thought we could master most of the words and call spelling done.

 

He is nearing the end of his first Spelling Power Level (G). The program includes a test of old words.

 

The program has a sort of spiral, and any missed words we additionally independently practiced over and over until they were mastered. Others he never missed the first time through the program.

 

The point is that this was review for him.

 

Hi missed:

exaggerate (something like exhagerate if I recall; this was one we practiced for quite a while until it was solid),

embarrass (left out an r...and this is one we practiced for mastery as well),

Puerto Rico (Porto Rico; practiced previously),

tuition (tution..he didn't miss that one originally and this spelling isn't phonetic, which is unusual for him),

possession (left out an s; we had mastered that),

height (hieght also not missed originally, and something he should have known), and

disappointed (dissappointed; we had carried this one for a solid month, practicing every day).

 

 

 

I feel discouraged by his lack of retention. We put considerable time into this, and it feels sort of like a waste.

 

The book would have me go back and practice the rules associated with the missed words. Outside of height, this won't help him. We had a similar problem with previous points we tested old words, and this is very similar to the issues I had when we left the first spelling program.

 

He just doesn't retain the visual for words easily.

 

Is there a better program for a child who doesn't remember what words look like?

 

Should I just camp out in this Spelling Power level reviewing all the words he missed or move on?

 

When do I just give up on spelling? Sometimes I feel we're wasting our time. But then I don't want him walking around writing things like exhagerate if I can help it.

 

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

You say he passed the Barton screening.  Is he a dyslexic?  I can't remember.

 

Barton might help but that's a pretty expensive and intense program.  

 

FWIW, DD never retained any spelling rules until we started doing Barton.  She started Barton when she was 12.  It has made a world of difference, but she is dyslexic.  I used Barton primarily for the reading.  The spelling improvement was an added bonus.

 

I guess you need to decide where he needs to put his energy at this point.  You could get him a spell checker or have him type and use the built in spell checkers on most word processing programs.  Just using and seeing the words over and over as he works on writing in content subjects might help eventually.

[Carol in Cal.]

Those are, by and large, tough words but words that a reasonable spell checking program would catch and fix for him.

My inclination would be to have him practice them, and come up with a mnemonic for each of them, and move on.

For instance, I remember the spelling of conscience by remembering that the word science is in it.  I don't know anyone else who remember it this way, but it works for me.

At most beyond this I would have him copy each of his 'trouble words' 5 times once a week for a while.  Then test on just those.

[abacus2]

At this point I would shift to typing and have him learn to use spell checkers to improve his work. He may also want to make a habit of always asking someone else to read over his work to double check his spelling. 

[OneStepAtATime]

FWIW, my dad was terrible at spelling.  He still went on to college and had a very successful career and even wrote a maintenance manual for the Air Force.  He just needed some outside assistance with spelling...

[8filltheheart]

I can soooooo empathize.  I have 2 sons, both dyslexic, who are horrible spellers.  They are.  There is nothing that can be done about it other than developing coping mechanisms for it.  They always have proofreaders for anything important.  People that my oldest works with have come to expect it and they tease him a lot.  But, he is a great engineer so it hasn't hurt his career.

 

I made both of them work on spelling through high school.  Didn't help all that much.  I did warn my college sophomore that if he isn't careful going to find himself working for the Navy since he writes about carriers instead of careers.  :P  I think this last time he was at least slightly mortified! ;)

 

I am tired of the battle.  My current 4th grader is following in their footsteps.  Let's just say it is more a challenge for me than her right now. :(

[OneStepAtATime]

Another FWIW: DH is terrible at spelling, too.  He is a very successful broadcast engineer.  Poor spelling didn't really slow him down except when he was in school.  I think spelling can be a great skill to have, and certainly poor spelling can be hugely frustrating, but I have living proof in my husband and dad that spelling is not the be all and end all of existence and if you can't spell well you are doomed to failure.  

[RootAnn]

I can soooooo empathize.

 

:iagree: (including with the stuff I left out).

 

I'm a horrible speller. I have very little visual memory for those tough words. I have to double check the key when I'm checking my kids' spelling tests. Some words get me no matter how many times I look them up.

 

Honestly, after all this time, you have (at least these) two options - 1) continue working on spelling, knowing that the kid will improve some, but never spell every one of the words you work on correctly long-term (keep banging your head against the wall knowing you are doing some good) or 2) drop spelling as a subject & just have him look up the words he spells wrong when editing his papers.

 

Twelve is about the time that I saw improvement in my older two's daily writing. Next year will be the last year of spelling for my two oldest kids. (Eldest hasn't done spelling in several years, but will endure one more pass through with her two younger siblings.) DD#3 will probably have one more year after that - so quitting around age 12. Once we call it quits, they transfer to just fixing their own mistakes in their writing.

[EmseB]

Isn't Phonetic Zoo an auditory-based spelling program? Would something like that help?

[Janeway]

I like Spelling Workout 1994 edition-a lot. It teaches spelling rules. It has interesting activities. It is easily broken down by the days. I highly recommend it.

[ktgrok]

Those are, by and large, tough words but words that a reasonable spell checking program would catch and fix for him.

My inclination would be to have him practice them, and come up with a mnemonic for each of them, and move on.

For instance, I remember the spelling of conscience by remembering that the word science is in it.  I don't know anyone else who remember it this way, but it works for me.

At most beyond this I would have him copy each of his 'trouble words' 5 times once a week for a while.  Then test on just those.

 

LOL, that's how I remember how to spell conscience too! (and sadly...only recently figured out that mnemonic..like in the last year.)

 

If it helps, I'm a terrible speller. Horrid. Especially with words with double letters. And I live my life very well, despite that. Heck, I'm even paid by a major publisher to write books! So I wouldn't worry too much. That's what spell check is for. Let him be good at other stuff. 

[sbgrace]

Thank you all for your thoughts.

There is dyslexia in the family (my sister, and a cousin), but there are also a lot of just plain horrible spellers, including his dad and a grandparent on both sides of the family. I actually had hubby try those words tonight, and he missed exaggerate and embarrass himself. That's kind of reassuring, as were the reminders on this thread that people go on in success with a weak spelling gene.

 

I do think he has something going on language wise. He switches words like in and on in reading, has had struggles with some weird language usage things native speakers with good models shouldn't struggle with, and reading nonsense words has some issues too.

 

But, in terms of spelling, it just seems to be that he doesn't remember what words look like. Because of that, he doesn't even realize he doesn't know how to spell something if that makes sense. 

 

These replies have been helpful. I may need to think about moving to accommodation vs. trying to continue improving.

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Thank you all for your thoughts.

 

There is dyslexia in the family (my sister, and a cousin), but there are also a lot of just plain horrible spellers, including his dad and a grandparent on both sides of the family. I actually had hubby try those words tonight, and he missed exaggerate and embarrass himself. That's kind of reassuring, as were the reminders on this thread that people go on in success with a weak spelling gene.

 

I do think he has something going on language wise. He switches words like in and on in reading, has had struggles with some weird language usage things native speakers with good models shouldn't struggle with, and reading nonsense words has some issues too.

 

But, in terms of spelling, it just seems to be that he doesn't remember what words look like. Because of that, he doesn't even realize he doesn't know how to spell something if that makes sense. 

 

These replies have been helpful. I may need to think about moving to accommodation vs. trying to continue improving.

There may be a stealth dyslexia component going on.  Since there is dyslexia in the family and there is a strong genetic component I would consider that a strong possibility.  Is there anyone around you could borrow Barton from?  It might actually help.

[mamakelly]

My daughter is 14, and had similar spelling issues. I started to see a difference when I switched her to Phoenetic Zoo. It's all auditory, and it seems to work better for her. It's taken her nearly 2 years to get through 1 level, but her spelling has improved. She'll never be a great speller, I was just trying to get her as far as I could.

[LisaKinVA]

Those are, by and large, tough words but words that a reasonable spell checking program would catch and fix for him.

My inclination would be to have him practice them, and come up with a mnemonic for each of them, and move on.

For instance, I remember the spelling of conscience by remembering that the word science is in it.  I don't know anyone else who remember it this way, but it works for me.

At most beyond this I would have him copy each of his 'trouble words' 5 times once a week for a while.  Then test on just those.

 

You know someone now!  This is the only way I remember how to spell numerous words.  I taught my oldest daughter (and now my middle daughter) the same tricks (I call it the silly-pronunciation spelling method).

 

To the OP, some kids will always struggle with spelling (even very bright/gifted kids).  Some kids get spelling naturally -- and most are in the middle somewhere.  One of my children (Blondie) doesn't struggle with spelling as much as she is thoughtless about it.  She can ace tests, but when she's composing she will misspell many easy words (because spelling isn't automatic for her).  However, when she is thoughtful about writing (dictation, for example), she can spell things perfectly.  While she still has spelling tests and spelling practice, we are focusing more on fixing mistakes in her writing and going over why something is wrong (in some cases, it's spelled wrong because she pronounces it wrong, other times she's using the wrong homonym.  In her case, it doesn't seem to matter what spelling program we use -- because the issues are outside of the program itself.

[Jess4879]

I wouldn't abandon it altogether, but I wouldn't make it a hill to die on either.  Have you tried Spelling City?  My oldest needs those games and that interactive element to help things stick.  We don't use it for every word, just the ones that she has trouble with.  I've also changed computer passwords, etc to words she's having trouble with so she has to spell them over and over. 

[NatashaBrady]

That's exactly how I remember it too

Those are, by and large, tough words but words that a reasonable spell checking program would catch and fix for him.

My inclination would be to have him practice them, and come up with a mnemonic for each of them, and move on.

For instance, I remember the spelling of conscience by remembering that the word science is in it. I don't know anyone else who remember it this way, but it works for me.

At most beyond this I would have him copy each of his 'trouble words' 5 times once a week for a while. Then test on just those.