Pros and Cons of just taking AP exam without AP approved course?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I am going to lose my mind thinking about possibly homeschooling for highschool. I think there is value in AP course but I also think AP courses are over valued and too many can cause burn out. My kid's current school mandates 6 AP course to graduate and many kids take much more. Well I think this is crazy when there is little to no free time left.

 

So anyway, for those who have taken AP courses or who have just taken the exams can you tell more about how you went about it and the pros and cons of each? Does it make a difference in regards to getting admitted to better colleges? How can I give my kid a rigorous high school education without sucking the life out of him:(

[Julie of KY]

As far as college goes, I don't know that it matters too much if it is an AP approved course or just self-studied. The student will have the AP score either way which validates the course.

 

As far as actually taking a (homeschool) AP course, there is a lot to be learned other than the material - deadlines, tests, outside accountability, etc.

 

I can't tell if you homeschool or not - are you "thinking" about homeschooling or just thinking about the future of high school. I'd recommend taking it one year at a time and deciding on AP courses one step at a time.

[Cosmos]

My kid's current school mandates 6 AP course to graduate and many kids take much more.

 

I can't wrap my mind around this. Is this a public school? How can they mandate AP courses for all students? Surely there are many students who cannot possibly achieve this.

 

[Mom22ns]

We had a lot of trouble finding a school that would let a homeschooler test. The school that finally agreed, agreed only to let them test in subjects where they had taken AP approved courses outside my homeschool. Dumbest thing ever, but we weren't self-studying so I didn't try to fight it.

 

For us, an AP class was a jump into college level work, pace, and accountability. The ability to pass the test was only one facet of what we were after. Our local ps only offer one AP (calc) so there is no feeling of AP pressure here. (Dual enrollment is very popular here and college bound students typically graduate with at about 30 college credits.)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I can't wrap my mind around this. Is this a public school? How can they mandate AP courses for all students? Surely there are many students who cannot possibly achieve this.

 

It is a charter school so it is a school of choice. There are a lots of choices here but unfortunately if you want a rigorous free public education here there is only one other option that I think is good which may be so so only.  We have been at said school for 4 years and they prep kids to take 6 AP exams starting in  5th grade. He has learned a lot but the amount of work has been way too much the past 4 years coupled with a long school day. Let's just say he has already done 5 high school course since 5th grade and the equivalent of 2 to 3 other high school courses over 3 years as well. Then to top it off the one course he is taking is the second year of an equivalent AP course and allows the kids to take an AP exam. He has done well but he has worked like Hercules and I am seriously thinking he will be burned out if we continue through high school there. We have homeschooled before but that was for a few elementary grades..

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

We had a lot of trouble finding a school that would let a homeschooler test. The school that finally agreed, agreed only to let them test in subjects where they had taken AP approved courses outside my homeschool. Dumbest thing ever, but we weren't self-studying so I didn't try to fight it.

 

For us, an AP class was a jump into college level work, pace, and accountability. The ability to pass the test was only one facet of what we were after. Our local ps only offer one AP (calc) so there is no feeling of AP pressure here. (Dual enrollment is very popular here and college bound students typically graduate with at about 30 college credits.)

That is good to know. I did find several schools that will let us test and hopefully the policy does not change in the future but I di not ask about whether it mattered if they took an AP approved course or not. He would have hopefully one passing AP exam and course under his belt by the end of this school year.

[daijobu]

I wouldn't recommend 6 APs.  If you want to take some APs to show proof of rigorous coursework and competency, I would choose the ones in your students' area of interest.  If she's a STEM type, do AP Calc, physics and chemistry.  A future english major should do the AP lit or lang/comp.  Etc.  No need to bust your butt proving you are excellent at everything.  

 

ETA:  Or don't do APs.  If your future STEM major can demonstrate excellence in some other way, such as science fair awards or other competitions or some other cool STEM-y project, do that instead.  A future english major may focus on his writing, maybe try to get something published or win an award or do something in that field.  

 

If APs aren't a good fit for you (and it sounds like it isn't), there are other ways to achieve college admission.  

Edited March 5, 2016 by daijobu

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

The thing that is getting me is all the pressure they put on kids now a days. I went to a prep school and did'nt take one AP course and did just fine in college. I cannot believe how this current school has me almost buying the hype that my kid needs all these AP courses or is somehow not making the rigor grade :svengo:

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I wouldn't recommend 6 APs.  If you want to take some APs to show proof of rigorous coursework and competency, I would choose the ones in your students' area of interest.  If she's a STEM type, do AP Calc, physics and chemistry.  A future english major should do the AP lit or lang/comp.  Etc.  No need to bust your butt proving you are excellent at everything.  

How did you prep your child to take AP chem? My kid has taken chemistry for the past 3 years at this school and it is supposed to be equivalent to about one year high school chem. Same thing with biology and physics at this school. Plus 5th grade had 3 month overviews of each science. So he has had a lot of exposure and has done very well. Could he jump in to AP chem or AP bio? He also is taking precalculus-1st half of Saxon Advanced Math this year.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

 

If APs aren't a good fit for you (and it sounds like it isn't), there are other ways to achieve college admission.  

AP exams are a good fit, I am just trying to find any way to let him have a little more free time. Not being in school all day will be a help I believe. And I do want him to take some AP approved course with the exam but I am also thinking it maybe less time consuming and easier to self study for some of the easier AP exams and just take the test. As for 6 exams I don't know. I wish I did not feel so brainwashed and pressured in the need for these courses. 

[Arcadia]

My kid has taken chemistry for the past 3 years at this school and it is supposed to be equivalent to about one year high school chem. Same thing with biology and physics at this school.

Sounds exactly like a certain private school here that is a famous public charter in AZ. If that is the one, AP bio might be okay if your child loves bio or AP physics 1 & 2 if he loves physics but not AP chem or AP physics C.

The one here use Zumdahl for chem, Campbell for bio, Serway for physics. It is a pressure cooker school here.

[daijobu]

How did you prep your child to take AP chem? My kid has taken chemistry for the past 3 years at this school and it is supposed to be equivalent to about one year high school chem. Same thing with biology and physics at this school. Plus 5th grade had 3 month overviews of each science. So he has had a lot of exposure and has done very well. Could he jump in to AP chem or AP bio? He also is taking precalculus-1st half of Saxon Advanced Math this year.

 

My dd and I are big fans of PA Homeschoolers AP chemistry taught by Mr. Moskaluk.  You'll read a lot of positive reviews on the WTM pinned discussions, and he's a gem.  She's a freshman and had no chemistry apart from what she learned in middle school science with BFSU.  So she's working hard, 1-2 hours a day, but she loves it.  If you look at the website, math-wise they want their students to be really solid on logarithms, probably because of calculating pH?  

 

We were just debating the other day the merits of taking AP bio.  Since she's STEM-y, she's going to take AP physics and calculus for sure.  We're on the fence about AP bio, just because, well, she needs a break.  OTOH, my middle school dd is taking WTM bio, and it's solid, but it does gloss over a bit, so I'd like them take a deeper bio class, since it could be the last one they ever take.  

 

We're skipping other APs, but maybe doing AP stats because I heard it was easier.  She also took AP CS last year, which is also fairly easy.  So if we stick to this plan it looks like she'll take 4 or maybe 5 APs.  That sounds like a lot now that I think about it, lol, but she likes tests, so it's a good fit for us.  

 

Anyway, I edited my earlier post about alternatives to showing rigor in college preparation that avoids APs, so please take another look.  

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

What is BFSU and did you have her take a specific course?

[dhudson]

My ds did all his APs self studied. He is that kind of kid, though. My twins will be doing a combo of AP and self studied classes. I think it all depends on the kid.

[Arcadia]

What is BFSU and did you have her take a specific course?

BFSU is Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding

http://outskirtspress.com/webPage/isbn/9781432770334

[daijobu]

What is BFSU and did you have her take a specific course?

 

What Arcadia said.  It's an elementary and middle school science course.  There's a lot of info about it on these boards, good and bad.  We are fans.  

[theelfqueen]

Well, in the public school my oldest attended a lot of kids took ap classes, where they did poorly on the exam, but having the ap class on their transcript was weighted. There were quite a few kids who tested poorly but got decent grades.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Well, in the public school my oldest attended a lot of kids took ap classes, where they did poorly on the exam, but having the ap class on their transcript was weighted. There were quite a few kids who tested poorly but got decent grades.

This is very true but at my kid's school you have to pass AP exam since it affects your final grade a lot. I am not worried about my kid passing but I am very worried about the lack of free time and the stress. He has almost no time to pursue his interests and feels stressed. It is too bad since we feel that he has great teachers but they need to ease up on the homework and shorten the school day a little but that is never going to happen.

[MarkT]

My nephew who is a Senior at a PS back in NY state took four APs his Junior year and is taking three his Senior year including Physics C. He plays varsity sports all three seasons and does outside project work. He is very busy but does not seem to be a total burn-out.  He applied to highly competitive colleges so this should help prepare him.

He did quite well on his Junior year APs.

 

My DS will start APs next year (Junior) because his charter couldn't squeeze AP World into his schedule this year.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

My nephew who is a Senior at a PS back in NY state took four APs his Junior year and is taking three his Senior year including Physics C. He plays varsity sports all three seasons and does outside project work. He is very busy but does not seem to be a total burn-out.  He applied to highly competitive colleges so this should help prepare him.

He did quite well on his Junior year APs.

 

My DS will start APs next year (Junior) because his charter couldn't squeeze AP World into his schedule this year.

But how long is the school day? My kid's school gets out at 4 pm and 5pm if my kid does an extra curricular or sees a teacher. Then by the time you get home and eat dinner, you are looking at 7 or 8 pm before homework starts which is a ton. I think my kid is exhausted by the time he starts homework and I am thinking if he did school at home, he would have more time for homework and more time for free time.

[Julie of KY]

Your child is still on the young side. I would back off and decide in an ideal world what would you like your child to learn. Then look at college admission requirements and see if this fits in. Lots and lots of kids get admitted to college with no APs and no dual enrollment.

 

An AP class is supposed to be a college equivalent class - college level material and generally college level pace. While you can spread one AP class over three years of middle school, I'm not sure of the value of that. I'd teach to your child's current level.

 

Don't worry about what everyone else is doing; do worry about jumping through a few hoops for college (like everyone needs 4 years of English, 3+ years of math, etc.) Your English or anything else does not have to be college level at a younger age, just needs to prepare them for college level work for the future, assuming you are college-bound.

 

I think some kids are ready and need to take advanced classes in high school, others should focus on learning to prepare for college. I've got both.

[Mike in SA]

Yep, we're familiar with that charter, as well.  While I agree that making ALL kids take AP exams is a bit extreme, there are few kids in that charter who do not intend to take that many or more, anyway. 

 

What I do like about the school's method is that the 6 APs are spread out from 8th-12th.  It makes the work digestible.  Our local schools offer all the same APs, but kids are only allowed to take two before 11th.  Then, many students burn themselves out on 6-7 APs per year.  Also, the teachers are VERY strong in general, and can deliver the content more effectively than most.  It makes a big difference on homework loads.  The kids have already been through the pressure cooker process in 5th-8th grades, so the increase in work is not as bad as it sounds.

 

I know of quite a few kids who have gone to that school through 8th, and left for traditional b&m schools for high school and done exceedingly well.  They still take the APs, but have a couple of years of reinforcement first.

 

As far as taking APs on your own, yes, it works.  A HUGE pro is being able to craft content to a level that greatly exceeds the typical AP course, then dial back the difficulty for testing/grading.

[HeatherL]

It is a charter school so it is a school of choice. There are a lots of choices here but unfortunately if you want a rigorous free public education here there is only one other option that I think is good which may be so so only.  We have been at said school for 4 years and they prep kids to take 6 AP exams starting in  5th grade. He has learned a lot but the amount of work has been way too much the past 4 years coupled with a long school day. Let's just say he has already done 5 high school course since 5th grade and the equivalent of 2 to 3 other high school courses over 3 years as well. Then to top it off the one course he is taking is the second year of an equivalent AP course and allows the kids to take an AP exam. He has done well but he has worked like Hercules and I am seriously thinking he will be burned out if we continue through high school there. We have homeschooled before but that was for a few elementary grades..

 

Is you son in a Basis school?  It sounds as though he is.  I have posted on a couple of other boards asking for reviews of the school.  My son got a spot at the Mesa one for 4th next year and we are still debating him going or not.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Is you son in a Basis school? It sounds as though he is. I have posted on a couple of other boards asking for reviews of the school. My son got a spot at the Mesa one for 4th next year and we are still debating him going or not.

Send me a PM.:)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Your child is still on the young side. I would back off and decide in an ideal world what would you like your child to learn. Then look at college admission requirements and see if this fits in. Lots and lots of kids get admitted to college with no APs and no dual enrollment.

 

An AP class is supposed to be a college equivalent class - college level material and generally college level pace. While you can spread one AP class over three years of middle school, I'm not sure of the value of that. I'd teach to your child's current level.

 

Don't worry about what everyone else is doing; do worry about jumping through a few hoops for college (like everyone needs 4 years of English, 3+ years of math, etc.) Your English or anything else does not have to be college level at a younger age, just needs to prepare them for college level work for the future, assuming you are college-bound.

 

I think some kids are ready and need to take advanced classes in high school, others should focus on learning to prepare for college. I've got both.

Having trouble using quote option with tablet. I agree with dialing back which we done to the extent possible in this school. In fact, I had him repeat first half pre-calc despite getting an A last year to slow him down since he was hyper-accelerated in math since 5th. We are thinking of homeschool to dial it back but still want to take some AP courses since he has had so much prep for them. I am thinking he will have a lot more FreeTime with school at home even with taking a 5 or so AP courses in the next 4 years. Edited March 5, 2016 by NoPlaceLikeHome

[daijobu]

My nephew who is a Senior at a PS back in NY state took four APs his Junior year and is taking three his Senior year including Physics C. He plays varsity sports all three seasons and does outside project work. He is very busy but does not seem to be a total burn-out.  He applied to highly competitive colleges so this should help prepare him.

 

 

Now I don't feel so bad about my dd taking 4-5 APs, spread out from 8th - 12th grade, at most 1 or 2 a year, and only 2 if one of them is easier.

[GoodGrief]

Not every kid needs to take APs, but if you are wanting to prove rigor as a homeschooler, APs are one way to do it. In some ways, APs can be more flexible than the other options, like dual enrollment.

 

If you have a kid that is willing/capable, six APs spread throughout high school is not a terrible load. I do think that six in a year would be a bit much, though certainly kids do it. Again, not for everybody, though you did say you were interested in a rigorous high school curriculum.

 

The tests can definitely be hard to schedule, and I would do some searching to make sure you can find a location for specific tests before you order curriculum. One year we could not schedule World History. It ended up being fine; she just did the SAT subject test instead.

 

As far as taking the tests without doing the classes, that is certainly an option if you are looking for college credit (keeping in mind that not all colleges offer credit for APs.) As far as admission decisions though, some colleges will consider grades in AP classes, but not necessarily consider scores on the AP exams. And while few colleges (if any) require AP exam scores, there are many that require one or more SAT subject tests, so you will want to consider that in planning out testing during high school. Our experience is that it is definitely preferable to spread things out, with the bulk of testing completed by the end of junior year.

 

Again, APs are not necessary for all (I have one daughter with several APs on her transcript, along with the exam scores, and several SAT subject tests. I also have a daughter who had none of that. Both received acceptances to great colleges.) But if you are talking about demonstrating rigor in high school, it's one way to do it.

[mumto2]

We are self studying for AP exams but not doing many, just taking the exam for Calculus and Comp Sci. We don't have approved classes for our transcript.

 

You can get your own syllabi approved if that is what you wish to do. WTM has threads devoted to that or adopt one of the samples online at CollegeBoard. You need to have you "adoption" approved by College Board befotre you can call your home ed class AP.

 

We used the Barron's book for exam prep last year.

[AK_Mom4]

We've done both.  DS20 took AP classes and then took the AP exams.  DD22 self-studied and then took the AP exam.  Both were fine.

 

DD14 is self-studying and will do the AP Calc AB exam this spring.  We follow an AP syllabus and are doing the practice tests, but because we have no difficulty getting a test spot for her, I opted to not have the syllabus approved.  If she chooses to do AP Bio in two years, I may go thru the exercise to get that one approved just for the heck of it.  Otherwise we will list it as Bio 2 with AP Exam.