Vegetarians I need your help!

[TwoEdgedSword]

This is a spin off of another thread. My daughter, who has been paleo for some time (only in the sense of grain free, dairy free and sugar free) is wanting to remove meat from her diet also.

 

Because she is a varsity athlete, I want to make sure she gets the nutrition she needs. She will do psuedo grains like amaranth, quinoa and Minnesota wild rice (which is actually a seed). She will do farm raised eggs too. And she'll do legumes, so as you see not strict paleo,

 

What would be the top things I need to make sure she gets food and vitamin wise to keep her strong and healthy? We will be running this by her doc soon, but since basketball season is already on now, I want to make sure she is getting what she needs now.

 

Also, any recipe books and blogs that lean paleo vegetarian are welcome.

I'm joining her in going meat free to support her efforts. I've also been paleo with her too.

 

Many thanks!

[Slache]

What would be the top things I need to make sure she gets food and vitamin wise to keep her strong and healthy?

Meat. Unless she wants to become a vegetarian for moral reasons she should research it further. And don't rely on soy as a big source of protein. It messes with estrogen levels.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Dr. Garth Davis' book Proteinaholic recently came out.  It goes over multiple studies about what our bodies really need.  He is vegan but doesn't suggest that is the only option (and in fact, his children are vegetarian and many of his patients do eat some meat).

 

If she is eating a variety of real foods, she'll get what she needs.  The only real concern is B12 if she cuts out animal products altogether.

[redsquirrel]

As a vegetarian raising two athletes (dancers) that sounds fairly difficult to me.  My kids eat a lot of eggs, beans, grains and dairy. They eat some soy, but we have a source for locally made organic tofu.

 

Mostly, I would be making sure she is getting adequate calories. When food choices get limited that can suffer. And if she isn't getting enough calories then she is going to have trouble down the line. Frankly, I would also be keeping a watchful eye on why she is making her choices. It isn't uncommon in the athletic world for dietary choices to be a smokescreen for eating problems. I am not making any assumptions, just telling you that it isn't unheard of. And if her diet is getting so limited that she is having to depend on supplements to meet her nutritional minimums, then it is time to reassess.

 

You are also going to want to keep an eye on her calcium.  I know very well that milk isn't the only source of calcium, there are a lot of different ways to get enough, but at her age is is something all parents, not just those of vegetarian or paleo etc kids, need to do.  Right now, she is building the body that will take her through the next 70 years.  She needs strong bones to do that.

[Zebra]

Meat. Unless she wants to become a vegetarian for moral reasons she should research it further. And don't rely on soy as a big source of protein. It messes with estrogen levels.

 

Maybe I am missing your tone here, but you do not have to eat meat to be healthy.   

[Slache]

Maybe I am missing your tone here, but you do not have to eat meat to be healthy.   

No, but you do for optimum health and with her being a growing athlete I would encourage her to eat meat. I'm sorry if I sounded pissy. I was trying to be short to avoid an argument. I've been yelled at here so frequently I find it's best not to have opinions, which is why I suggested she research it further. 

[TwoEdgedSword]

Thanks ladies...and Red Squirrel, I do appreciate your concern. She loves food and is not in danger of an eating disorder. (And I know what to look for) She is really wanting to clear up her complexion and wants to eliminate meat because of the hormones. We've been dairy free for so long, the meat removal seems like it would be easy, but I just want to make sure she gets what she needs. If she sees no results, she can go back to meat fairly soon.

 

I've encouraged her that she could go back on regular grains, but she swears she feels way better off them. Faster in running, less mental fog, no brick in her stomach feeling. She drinks almond and coconut milk which has about 45% of the daily allowance.

 

Eta. We don't do soy.

Edited November 30, 2015 by TwoEdgedSword

[Zebra]

No, but you do for optimum health and with her being a growing athlete I would encourage her to eat meat. I'm sorry if I sounded pissy. I was trying to be short to avoid an argument. I've been yelled at here so frequently I find it's best not to have opinions, which is why I suggested she research it further. 

 

Saying that you need to eat meat to be healthy is a pretty strong opinion.   It's been proven over and over again that you do not have to eat meat to be healthy.    That's all I am saying.   I don't think you were being pissy, and I wasn't trying to start an argument with you, honestly.   I was just wondering if there was something more to what you were saying.  

 

I don't know enough about Paleo to comment on that.   What I do know is vegetarians need B12, and you can get that from dairy and eggs.  

[redsquirrel]

No, but you do for optimum health and with her being a growing athlete I would encourage her to eat meat. I'm sorry if I sounded pissy. I was trying to be short to avoid an argument. I've been yelled at here so frequently I find it's best not to have opinions, which is why I suggested she research it further. 

 

Eating meat is one way of achieving optimum health.  There are plenty of elite athletes who are vegetarian and vegan, enough to show that you don't need to eat meat to achieve 'optimum health'. 

 

Meat isn't going to keep an athlete or anyone from optimum health, as long as it is part of a balanced and healthy diet.  But the idea that eating meat is the only way to be a good athlete or to be healthy is just outdated and wrong.

 

[TwoEdgedSword]

So what are your fav veggies for dipping?

What are your favorite vegetarian quick snacks for on the go?

 

I just made hummus and used zucchini and artichoke hearts for dipping. It was pretty good, but I need an arsenal of snack ideas and go to plans, because of how busy basketball season gets.

[skimomma]

Eating meat is one way of achieving optimum health.  There are plenty of elite athletes who are vegetarian and vegan, enough to show that you don't need to eat meat to achieve 'optimum health'. 

 

Meat isn't going to keep an athlete or anyone from optimum health, as long as it is part of a balanced and healthy diet.  But the idea that eating meat is the only way to be a good athlete or to be healthy is just outdated and wrong.

 

Thank you.

 

Both my dd and I are endurance athletes who feel pretty darn healthy despite a lifetime of vegetarianism (dd) and 20+ years of it (me).  We even have large swaths of time in which we were vegan.  While I am sure anyone can dig up research that says just about anything when it comes to diet, if vegetarianism were truly unhealthy, there would be a lot more squawking given how well funded the meat lobby is.

 

As for the OP, if you have legumes, nuts, and eggs in the mix, your dd should be fine.  If she did not eat eggs, B-12 could be an (addressable) issue.  Many a pre-workout meal at my house is a nice bed of pureed or roasted veggies with a couple of eggs plopped on top.  That is a very simple way to have things on hand to throw together a meal in minutes.  Add a side of legumes and a nice salad for a really big and filling meal.  There are so many variations on that theme that it never gets boring.

[Katy]

I am generally supportive of vegetarian diets, but when already restricting grains, legumes, soy, and dairy, you need to be prepared to either cook 3+ hours a day or you need to convince her to widen her diet.

 

The only thing that is left is starch.  She cannot get enough calories or nutrition eating only potatoes & vegetables.

 

Please use the free account option at Cronometer.com and track her nutrition to prove to her that she will be missing nutrients and will make herself sick unless she acts very carefully.  This seems like the beginning of an eating disorder.  I would seriously seek out the advice of a therapist and nutritionist on this.  If she refuses, make HER do the research on what to eat and make her prove it is healthy and that it covers all of the nutrients and all of the phytonutrients she needs.

[TwoEdgedSword]

Katy,

 

Thanks, but as I said in the OP, she does legumes, lots of them. Also, our farm raised eggs and lots of nuts. We even bake grain free, almond flour cookies. I will definitely check out the site you mentioned, but she is getting plenty of healthy fats, avocado, coconut oil, olive oil, hemp seed, nuts, chia seeds and she does hemp protein powder,healthy mayo, fruit or spinach smoothies in coconut and almond milk with added coconut oil.

 

I know it's way harder being grain free, and that why I asked the original question. This may be a short lived thing if she doesn't see changes in her complexion. She's tried so many things with and without the derm, and if this helps her, I'm willing to give it a cautious try.

If I see notable weight loss I'll be talking to her about reintroducing grains. That's assuming being vegetarian helps her skin.

[MEmama]

I am raising a lifelong vegetarian athlete--he competes in triathlons, is a distance runner, skis competitively, races cyclocross...I get the need for proper nutrition. :) 

 

The thing that sticks out most for me is where she is going to get the bulk of her calories from. For DS, he has a wide variety of foods to choose from, including cheese, nuts, and eggs. He drinks plenty of organic milk and eats fish and tofu (etc) for additional protein, plus plenty of grains, beans, and veggies to round things out. Despite enormous well balanced meals, it truly is a struggle to get enough food into his growing, active body. Looking at her restrictions, I honestly don't know what to advise.

 

Even if she is insistent, I would consult a dermatologist for her skin and her doctor for her nutritional needs before allowing such a restricted diet. I am totally supportive of trying new things, but as an athlete--and as a teenager--she really does need a well balanced diet, and I would be unsure how to create that on such limited food options.

 

BEST of luck. And GOOD for you for being such a proactive mama! :)

[MEmama]

Katy,

 

Thanks, but as I said in the OP, she does legumes, lots of them. Also, our farm raised eggs and lots of nuts. We even bake grain free, almond flour cookies. I will definitely check out the site you mentioned, but she is getting plenty of healthy fats, avocado, coconut oil, olive oil, hemp seed, nuts, chia seeds and she does hemp protein powder,healthy mayo, fruit or spinach smoothies in coconut and almond milk with added coconut oil.

 

I know it's way harder being grain free, and that why I asked the original question. This may be a short lived thing if she doesn't see changes in her complexion. She's tried so many things with and without the derm, and if this helps her, I'm willing to give it a cautious try.

If I see notable weight loss I'll be talking to her about reintroducing grains. That's assuming being vegetarian helps her skin.

 

It looks like she's doing so many things right. The healthy fats are great, and I didn't realize in my previous post that she would continue to eat eggs.

 

Sorry I can't help much with being grain free. I know my parents have tried to go carb free, but I don't think that's what you are asking here.

[6wildhorses]

I recently cut dairy, sugar (as much as possible), and (mostly) eggs from my diet. It was hard at first because I also don't eat meat.  My health has improved dramatically, though, so I am sticking to it.

 

I eat quinoa flakes for breakfast. I put a variety of things in it, including Tropical Tradition's Coconut Cream Concentrate, honey, cinnamon, acai powder, and/or fruit. I eat Kind bars for snacks. My favorite low-sugar Kind bars are Caramel Almond and Sea Salt and Madagascar Vanilla.

For lunch and dinner I generally eat salad. The base is generally the same: a dark, leafy green mix with cilantro and avocado. I always add protein.  If I forget, I feel light headed and have to eat again. I add hemp seeds, nuts, garbanzo beans, refried beans, pumpkin seeds, etc. If it's a Mexican-style salad, I add some chips. If not, I add croutons. I also eat basic soup that comes in cartons, like broccoli, pumpkin, and portabello mushroom. I add lentils or hemp seeds for protein. The lentils I buy are suppose to cook for 10-15 minutes, so I just warm the soup that long.  I also add things like cayenne pepper, croutons, or fresh vegetables.

Sometimes I cook up a veggie mix in olive oil. Often it includes portabello mushrooms, broccoli, squash, onion, and/or asparagus.

I also drink a green smoothie every day. Right now I'm using Amazing Grass Superfood Berry.  It would be better to drink a fresh smoothie, but this is more convenient. I do take vitamin B12.

I always have a variety of nut butters on hand too. I eat them with celery or rice cakes.

I also eat sweet potatoes, quinoa salads, apples, pears, and carrots.

I feel much better eating vegetarian sources of protein than I ever did when I ate meat and dairy products. I just have to be more mindful about including protein and fats in my diet.

Edited November 30, 2015 by 6wildhorses

[Bluegoat]

I would be very wary of the tendency to think that restricting diet by whole food categories is a viable way to sort out problems like this.

[Lisbeth]

There are some emerging elite athletes on vegetarian and vegan diets.  I see a lot of them on blogs, instagram, selling books, in news articles, etc.  Maybe if you start looking into some of them (I wish I could just name them off for you but I am not into sports, etc., enough to know their names) - they probably have diet ideas on some of their sites.  I would look into that and see if you can find some good ideas.

 

The meat-free part jumps out to me, because I keep reading over and over from various athletes how their endurance and recovery times in various sports have improved by removing meat and dairy.  That's why I would start there.

[TwoEdgedSword]

Katy,

We just set her up on Cronmeter. Cool site. Thanks!

[redsquirrel]

So what are your fav veggies for dipping?

What are your favorite vegetarian quick snacks for on the go?

 

I just made hummus and used zucchini and artichoke hearts for dipping. It was pretty good, but I need an arsenal of snack ideas and go to plans, because of how busy basketball season gets.

 

For my older ballet dancer who has 6 classes a week, plus rehearsals, we live and die by our vitamix.  I make calorie dense smoothies for him to gulp down in those 10 mins between school and when he has to be at the bar.  He needs calories, fat, some carbs and protein to keep him full and he literally only has those 10 mins, so a smoothie is the most efficient way to get it done.

 

We use whey protein powder to bulk up smoothies, but there is are so many vegan sources that you can try something different every week. I have considered a few, but honestly, I just find it overwhelming and I don't know where to start, lol.

 

I usually make a smoothie with 1 piece of whole fruit, usually an apple or pear, some ground flax, some unsweetened almond milk, a bit of coconut oil, whey powder, cocoa and cinnamon. I also make one from pear, half an avocado, some green tea, unsweetened almond milk, frozen spinach and why protein.

 

I have about 5 or 6 that I rotate through, but they all follow the same basic formula.  They seem to keep him going for a long time. The trick is to force yourself to think beyond the fruit based smoothie, which is nothing but a sugar bomb. That will burn off to quickly and leave her hungry. Once you reduce the sugar it makes room for a lot more nutrition.

[ktgrok]

Thanks ladies...and Red Squirrel, I do appreciate your concern. She loves food and is not in danger of an eating disorder. (And I know what to look for) She is really wanting to clear up her complexion and wants to eliminate meat because of the hormones. We've been dairy free for so long, the meat removal seems like it would be easy, but I just want to make sure she gets what she needs. If she sees no results, she can go back to meat fairly soon.

 

I've encouraged her that she could go back on regular grains, but she swears she feels way better off them. Faster in running, less mental fog, no brick in her stomach feeling. She drinks almond and coconut milk which has about 45% of the daily allowance.

 

Eta. We don't do soy.

 

FYI, chickens are not given hormones. It's a myth. Cows are, but the hormones are not absorbed orally, which is why they are given by injection to the cows. If they could be aborbed orally they'd just be put in the feed. And of course there is seafood as well. 

[monstermama]

Some of the Engine 2 recipes may fit those restrictions: http://engine2diet.com/recipes/ I'm not too familiar with paleo, but the Engine 2 guys are very whole foods and plant-based.

[Bluegoat]

FYI, chickens are not given hormones. It's a myth. Cows are, but the hormones are not absorbed orally, which is why they are given by injection to the cows. If they could be aborbed orally they'd just be put in the feed. And of course there is seafood as well. 

 

It's also possible to buy beef and other meats that aren't given those kinds of supplements at all.  They cost more, but it is not hard to just use less.

[Jenny in Florida]

Eating meat is one way of achieving optimum health.  There are plenty of elite athletes who are vegetarian and vegan, enough to show that you don't need to eat meat to achieve 'optimum health'. 

 

Meat isn't going to keep an athlete or anyone from optimum health, as long as it is part of a balanced and healthy diet.  But the idea that eating meat is the only way to be a good athlete or to be healthy is just outdated and wrong.

 

Exactly. I didn't want to start a fight, since I know Slache said she wanted to avoid that. However, I don't want the OP or anyone reading this to go away thinking that athletes "need" meat to be healthy.

 

I'm another mom raising (well, who has mostly raised, since mine is now 17) a vegetarian "athlete." My son has been dancing since he was 6 years old and has been a vegan his whole life. He's now double majoring in musical theatre and dance and is still a vegan. He's amazingly healthy (almost never sick), tall, slender and freakishly strong for his build. 

 

As long as a person is eating a balanced diet, steering away from junk and nutritionally empty foods and consuming enough calories, there's no need to eat meat in order to be healthy and fit.

[Jenny in Florida]

I usually make a smoothie with 1 piece of whole fruit, usually an apple or pear, some ground flax, some unsweetened almond milk, a bit of coconut oil, whey powder, cocoa and cinnamon. I also make one from pear, half an avocado, some green tea, unsweetened almond milk, frozen spinach and why protein.

 

My dancer's favorite smoothie is: 1 frozen banana, 1 cup frozen strawberries, 1 cup orange juice and a scoop of vegan protein powder. (I'm currently mixing Spirutein, which is a blend of rice, pea and soy proteins, half and half with a soy-free version.) Sometimes I sub out 1/3 to 1/2 of the orange juice with vanilla almond milk, and I occasionally vary the berry mix a bit or use fresh cantaloupe for part of that measure if we happen to have some on hand. But the basic banana-strawberry-OJ-powder formula is his preferred version.

[reign]

There is so much food she can eat! I don't even see the problem nutritionally. It won't be as easy to transport/eat out. That is the one difficulty I can think of. Lara bars are the easiest thing we keep stashed in cars and backpacks. They have little packets of nut butters which are easy on the go. I do cook in an iron skillet to up our iron a bit.

[TwoEdgedSword]

And there's nutritional yeast too. Still GF and no "active yeast" issues. It's very good for ya.