Greta Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 It is online. One of the things that is interesting about the NIV is that it uses a method of translation that "gets the point across" instead of direct translation...and I am a little bit talking through my hat here, in that I don't know all the right words, and I DO respect the complicated task that *is* translation. I sat under Dr. Bruce Metzger who was on the translation team for the RSV and led the effort on the NRSV; I learned *something* about why translation is part science and part art. I say that not to establish some red hot credential for myself, but to (I hope) prevent people from having to respond with long explanations about how translation works. :0) The thing is, when you are translating, it is very difficult to separate your own preconceptions from the work at hand. The NIV was produced by a group of evangelical scholars and with evangelical theology comes some core beliefs that ended up getting reflected in the translation. A pretty obvious example (and one that is noted by Orthodox and Roman Catholic and some Anglican/Episcopal) Christians is this one: There is a word for "tradition" that is used in multiple places in the epistles. However, in the NIV, when there is a *warning against* practices empty of meaning, the NIV translators used the word "tradition." When it is a warning to "heed what we say to you and write here," that exact same word is translated "teachings." This rendering is pretty obviously tied to Evangelical wariness of the "tradition" debate that most people reading here will know about. So that's one issue. Another one: in Acts 2:26ish (sorry, too lazy to look it up), the verse talks about how the apostles continued in fellowship and in prayer. But the Greek is "the prayers"--there is a definite article, and that sounds a little bit liturgical. Another: in most modern translations, Christ is called a minister of our worship...but the word is actually "the liturgist". Again... These and other reasons are why the NIV has a strong following among those who hold to the same preconceptions/theology but not among the rest. Translating is an interesting process. A modern story of some translators of great Russian masterpieces is quite interesting. The translating team of Pevear and Volokhonsky is quite interesting. In preparing to do their translations, they actually spent time at an Orthodox Christian seminary, to learn the Christian theology that is the backdrop of Russian culture. There are enough differences in the ways the West and the East see things, even through a Christian lens, that it colored their translation and made it more reflective of the authors' Christian understanding. I can't find the articles I have read on this, and there are differing viewpoints as to whether their translations are the BEST, but they have generally been acknowledged to reflect the Russian mind in a richer way than most that have gone before. I think the same is true for any translation work...it has to be done with a sensitivity and understanding of the culture and traditions of the minds that wrote the originals. Now, back to my regularly scheduled KonMari-ing. Interesting stuff - thank you PattyJoanna! I remember reading some years ago about a scripture in Acts that commonly gets translated "the breaking of bread" but the Greek was actually THE bread, as in the Eucharist. I can't remember the details. I should look into that again. Amazing what a difference little articles and prepositions can make! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 Oops, wait, that's the same verse you're talking about! I must have gotten confused about where the "the" belongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Oops, wait, that's the same verse you're talking about! I must have gotten confused about where the "the" belongs. I think both "bread" and "prayers" have the definite article. :0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 One of the most biased translation choices is rendering the Hebrew word "almah" as virgin, when it means young woman, as in Isaiah 7:14. The NJB (to its credit) properly translate the passage: The Lord will give you a sign in any case: It is this: the young woman is with child and will give birth to a son whom she will call Immanuel. ​It is refreshing when translators are true to the text, rather than bending it to their theology. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 One of the most biased translation choices is rendering the Hebrew word "almah" as virgin, when it means young woman, as in Isaiah 7:14. The NJB (to its credit) properly translate the passage: The Lord will give you a sign in any case: It is this: the young woman is with child and will give birth to a son whom she will call Immanuel. ​It is refreshing when translators are true to the text, rather than bending it to their theology. Bill I'm getting so forgetful about details on this kind of thing, but here is what I recall: the Septuagint (completed 200BC uses the word "virgin", and this is *likely* the scriptures the NT writers read. The Masoretic, from the Hebrew, does indeed translate "young woman." Most of the NT references to the scriptures on to the Septuagint, I think...and I also recall that the Masoretic wasn't completed until something like 200AD but I think I might not have that date right. Anyway, it's an interesting set of translation and usage decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I have enjoyed the KJV 1590 (anyone wants to argue the KJVO, you can bet they are referring to the 1611 and generally have no idea about the 1590) and the ESV. I am not a fan of the NIV. RSV is not bad and NASB, eh. I enjoy my OSB, but would love to acquire the newer Orthodox English translation, because the OSB relie's too much on other translations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Biblegateway.com has versions in languages ranging from Dutch to Maori. I wanted to find the New Jerusalem Bible but have to look again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abba12 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I use biblegateway to compare translations for anything I am studying, so will regularly look at multiple translations selected somewhat at random. I use ESV by default. Grew up with NIV though so will often go to that when I am studying familiar text, and when I am studying I use ESV/NIV side-by-side with NKJV to get different viewpoints on translation issues, a practice that has resulted in subtle but seemingly important differences more than once. I'll have the kids memorize whichever of the three seems to read better for that passage, so we did Psalm 23 in NKJV, but are doing 1 Corinthians 13 in ESV I think. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I tend to use a New Revised Standard version for school stuff because that is what I had to get for my religion classes in college (secular college, FSU, religion major). I have a King James version on my nightstand I was given by my parents a zillion years ago, that is sentimental to me because they gave it to me despite being not religious themselves (I was) and because it's pretty....a lovely midnight blue leather cover, soft pages, pretty family tree in the front, etc. It will be passed on to my oldest one day because it has in it the record of my marriage to his father, my ex. I do want a new family bible something fierce. Will look again at the New Jerusalem Bible. I really want a "pretty" one with a leather cover, family tree section, etc etc, something graceful in its wording, and hopefully approved by the Catholic Church. Want to help me out here, SpyCar? Looking for something that can be a family heirloom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim in Appalachia Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 It's been a few years since I "knew" this so please take this with a little bit of room for bad memory, OK? The American Bishops did a new translation of the Bible and rolled it out into the Catholic Church and required its use; it is in all the missals and church publications at this point. The laity strongly objected for the reasons that you mention, that it is wooden, and that it is a point of generational discontinuity. All of a sudden old people who have been devout their whole lives are having to hear the scriptures they have heard all their lives in new and wooden tones. I don't know what the result was as I stopped following the story but there was some sort of a revolt and the Bishops were at least listening. But that is what happened. It also MIGHT have been part of an effort to standardize across all Catholic parishes what version was being used, but that is murky in my brain. What kind of funny, when I was young and complained to my mom about how the Bible read. The looked at me like I was nuts. She's not a big reader, plus in her mind, you are NOT supposed to read scripture. Yep, that is what she told me. It wasn't meant to be read. :huh: Of course, she grew up in the church before Vatican 2, so she only ever heard it in Latin. And the priest at our church mumbled so much that you couldn't hear or understand what he said (I don't want to disrespect the man, in every other respect he was a wonderful priest to the church). But she honestly thought it was wrong (as in sinful) to read the Bible for yourself. She currently attends a Lutheran church (for various reasons, mostly to do with my dad) but she is still uncomfortable with reading scripture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 I have enjoyed the KJV 1590 (anyone wants to argue the KJVO, you can bet they are referring to the 1611 and generally have no idea about the 1590) and the ESV. I am not a fan of the NIV. RSV is not bad and NASB, eh. I enjoy my OSB, but would love to acquire the newer Orthodox English translation, because the OSB relie's too much on other translations. Could you enlight me, Mommaduck? I thought they didn't even start the translation work until 1604 or so. I tried googling, but couldn't really find anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Biblegateway.com has versions in languages ranging from Dutch to Maori. I wanted to find the New Jerusalem Bible but have to look again. Bible Gateway doesn't have the NJB. You saw my link upthread? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Could you enlight me, Mommaduck? I thought they didn't even start the translation work until 1604 or so. I tried googling, but couldn't really find anything. Correction and my apology. I was thinking of the Geneva Bible :/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Correction and my apology. I was thinking of the Geneva Bible :/ Ah, okay! I'm not very familiar with it, but it's still being published? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I tend to use a New Revised Standard version for school stuff because that is what I had to get for my religion classes in college (secular college, FSU, religion major). I have a King James version on my nightstand I was given by my parents a zillion years ago, that is sentimental to me because they gave it to me despite being not religious themselves (I was) and because it's pretty....a lovely midnight blue leather cover, soft pages, pretty family tree in the front, etc. It will be passed on to my oldest one day because it has in it the record of my marriage to his father, my ex. I do want a new family bible something fierce. Will look again at the New Jerusalem Bible. I really want a "pretty" one with a leather cover, family tree section, etc etc, something graceful in its wording, and hopefully approved by the Catholic Church. Want to help me out here, SpyCar? Looking for something that can be a family heirloom. I'm no expert with the intricasies of approved bible translations in the Roman Catholic Church, but the NJB has been an official Catholic approved bible outside the US. How that works for US Catholics, I don't know. Ask a Priest? I had a nice one, not leather but well-bound cloth with a slip-cover. It was water-damaged, and I was so bummed. Later my mother (who'd never really read the bible) asked for a recommendation on versions. I said NJB. I few weeks later she called me, completely shocked and appalled by stories she was reading, and I had me a new copy :D Good luck finding one you like! Bill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Ah, okay! I'm not very familiar with it, but it's still being published? The 1599 was republished by Vision Forum (yeah, I know...I was Reformed at the time, but I really did enjoy it). A friend had an actual copy print (like a modern direct copy/xerox type direct reprint) of an earlier Geneva (1590, I believe) that included the Deuterocanonicals and other interesting bits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiana Daniels Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I have enjoyed the KJV 1590 (anyone wants to argue the KJVO, you can bet they are referring to the 1611 and generally have no idea about the 1590) and the ESV. I am not a fan of the NIV. RSV is not bad and NASB, eh. I enjoy my OSB, but would love to acquire the newer Orthodox English translation, because the OSB relie's too much on other translations. There's a newer one? Can you give me a link, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 http://www.peterpapoutsis.com http://www.orthodox-church.info/eob/index.asp Also, article by Fr. Whiteford. http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/81240.htm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiana Daniels Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Thanks, Mommaduck! I didn't even know that was in the works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Ok, maybe it's because I'm one of those sort of liberal Christians or maybe I just am more interested in what is comfortable to understand than in rigorous translation academics but I read The Voice available on Biblegateway. I do compare translations there fairly often. I still have all those KJV psalms and verses memorized from childhood though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelaNYC Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I just bought the NABRE for reading and study. When I was young I owned the Jerusalem Bible and the Good News Bible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 Also, article by Fr. Whiteford. http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/81240.htm That was really interesting! Thanks for sharing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I am very interested in various Bible translations. I have read the whole Bible in KJV, NLT (chronological), and NIV (1984?). I'm currently reading The Message. I have 1984 NIV for school work. Our pastor uses NASB, and that is the translation we're using for memorizing James right now. I also have ESV and the girls have both NKJV and NIrV. Rebecca will upgrade to a teen Bible for her birthday, and she asked for NLT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I've been using the ESV for a while now and really like it. Before that my preference was New American standard. I don't have a real reason for my preference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 I still have all those KJV psalms and verses memorized from childhood though. Our pastor uses NASB, and that is the translation we're using for memorizing James right now. Oh, I am so bad at memorizing scripture!!! :( I mean just awful. I was thinking about challenging myself to memorize the entire Sermon on the Mount. I figure that's the summary of what Christ wanted the masses to know and understand and do, right? So it seems like a good place to start. Now *I* just need to start! We sing the beatitudes in the Divine Liturgy, so at least I have that. Let's see if I can remember them without the melody. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 ESV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.