Any Charlotte Mason users?

[Jean in Newcastle]

We did a lot of handcrafts in younger years - a lot of it tied to history but not all.  We did soap carving, leatherwork, whittling, cross-stitch, weaving, finger knitting, sewing, and so much more.  Now it is purely interest driven for my teens.  Dd likes to look for ideas on Pinterest.  Ds does electronics projects and robotics and household projects inside and out.  Not really arts and crafts for him but it uses his hands and his ingenuity. 

[Soror]

We are in WI, so I understand nature study in winter!  I also think it's okay to focus on some areas more than others...we often focus more on handicrafts or art in the winter since our outdoor time is more limited.  We also find things indoors to observe...pets, houseplants, the bag of pine cones on our bookshelf, etc.  

 

We also don't get to every subject, every year.  This is our first year covering Shakespeare, practical geometry/paper sloyd, and folksongs.  For several years, our nature study has been light or non-existent.  My hope is that it will even out over the years and they'll be knowledgeable on a variety of subjects.

 

My DC have never rushed through chores to get to their schoolwork, in spite of using SCM for years. ;) My goal is for them not to complain about school, but many days we don't even reach that goal.  However, I still think CM is the best method for our family, and they seem to enjoy many of our lessons (even if they aren't in a hurry to get started).  

 

 

For us, nature study meant a year with memberships to the zoo, the aquarium and a nature park in our area.  along with gardening, bird feeders, raising chickens and being outside whenever possible.  In addition, I have my kids go out once a week and sketch something of their choice.  It's just on their schedule, I don't make a big deal of it except to ask them to show it to me when done.  

 

I really think it can be that simple.  

 

 

I used to worry that I was not organized enough about nature study all through the year.  I've come to the conclusion this is ok.  THat is not to say I don't make an effort, but I am satisfied that some seasons will have more opportunities than others.  We do nature study through summer vacation, sometimes with other kids.  In winter when it can be hard to get out, we may spend more time on things like handicrafts.

 

But I also think that the most important thing is actually to make an effort to get out into nature, even if you don't journal or have a theme or anything.  Find some walks or locations that are nice places through the year, and get there regularly.  The kids will, even with little or no prompting, interact and notice things and the changes that happen.  The more you go over the years, the more they will take those things in.  It may even be that seeing the same places time after time is better than new and different outings that take forever to plan.

 

This year we are really hitting nature study hard, the nature study curriculum in my sig is a great starting point, that really makes it easy just to open and go. Outdoor hour challenge (Harmony Mom's blog has a ton of great info as well and I found it to be a great help when we started nature study, reading her site you'll never be at a lose for what to do but we've had plenty of time that where I was just happy for us to make it outside here and there as that was all I could manage. I've been throwing out some ideas but if you choose to focus on other areas for now that is ok too, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good and all that.

 

I think it is too much pressure to do 500 subjects at all times, I can't do that many things well at one time and the dividing of my attention just doesn't work, although I guess it does fabulously for some. We have done some music appreciation here and there this year but we are devoting the holiday season to music and spring will be for Shakespeare, we've been hitting tons of art but during those time we might pull back, I find that when we do some stuff formally when I back off they often continue on with various things on their own, I just keep them in supplies and encouragement here and there. I find that adding in too many new things at one time is overwhelming, I like to really wrap my brain around one thing and work on incorporating that into our day before add something else but if jumping in with everything works, have at it.

 

As for handicrafts it is whatever strikes us, I have subscribed to various art sites so when I see something come up that looks interesting we try it out. We are also doing cultural studies this year so I'm looking for traditional arts for each culture and we are trying those out- origami I mentioned above, flower arranging I can't remember what else. I have calligraphy pens ready to go for our Chinese studies and kites on my list if we have the weather for it. Sewing classes started so dd1 has started those and they have been really fabulous(which has gotten her miles further than the hand-sewing book we've done periodically), we are doing cross-stitch as well, I found some cheap kits on sale and it is something I have a limited knowledge of so it seemed a good one to start. Likewise with sewing, I'm far, very far from a seamstress but I do have a smidgen of knowledge and own a machine. Ds has done some carving. I tried to teach myself knitting, quite unsuccessfully last year but we have a friend that has learned finger knitting and I plan on him teaching me and the girls- surely if the 10 yr old picked it up in an afternoon we can learn it.  Anyway, that is a bunch of things but just to say that I keep my eye out for what is available locally and what we're interested in, hopefully coordinating the two. 

 

 

Also, a thought that I try to keep in mind is accepting where I'm at, just the same as I accept them. There are many things about my own education that were lacking(especially when compared to the standard of these boards) at times it feels like I just have so far to go that the mountain is just too high to climb but we only get there one step at a time. DD1 and I were out today hunting mushrooms and I could easily think of all the things I still don't know, which are many, but then I think of all the things we now do know instead, not to mention passing down the mere appreciation of nature itself and developing keen observation skills (I swear she spots things so much more readily than I do). So, when you have a down day keep some perspective and some grace reserved for yourself.

[Soror]

We did a lot of handcrafts in younger years - a lot of it tied to history but not all.  We did soap carving, leatherwork, whittling, cross-stitch, weaving, finger knitting, sewing, and so much more.  Now it is purely interest driven for my teens.  Dd likes to look for ideas on Pinterest.  Ds does electronics projects and robotics and household projects inside and out.  Not really arts and crafts for him but it uses his hands and his ingenuity. 

My ds is more into robotics too and electronics, not sure what that counts as but that is what he likes, although I've found that as I do more projects with the girls he is joining in more than I expected, I welcome that although I don't expect it to last. He does stuff around the house and with the car with dh(and sometimes me) as well, but there is no set schedule to this, things are done as they are need to be done. I expect for all of them to have basic knowledge of how to do basic things, like my family and dh's by the time they graduate, those are just life skills though and I don't count them in our day. Handi-crafts aren't really in our school day either, just fun things we do together or they do on their own. I keep an eye to the interest of my own kids as well but as they are younger they don't necessarily have the life experience to have as much of an opinion, sewing was an easy choice for both of my daughters as they are so into fashion design right now. My oldest has always been an outdoors girl so that combined with my own interest makes our nature studies outside a good choice as well. I'm excited for the time that they will have more of an opinion about what they want to do.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I figure the point of handcrafts is to work on eye-hand coordination and practical skills.  I figure there is more than one way to achieve that.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

I am not slavish in the way I follow CM principles.  (Please don't take this as a criticism if your family is able to follow neatly into her categories of studies.)  But there is so much more out there than was available when CM was alive and writing - like electronics and robotics.  Of course she doesn't have a section for those.  They didn't exist.  So I put them in the categories of handwork and practical applied sciences.  

[Teneo]

I am a CM mom. Very CM as I'm on the advisory of our local CM support group. That said I chose Living Books Curriculum over AO because it had more modern choices. The science is also more varied and uses more modern books.

 

LBC begins formal grammar in the 4th quarter of 2nd grade. I do also know some begin in 3rd.

 

For handicrafts we get together with other local CMers every few weeks to work on one skill a year. This year it's weaving. So far they wove ribbons on their handcraft boxes and fingerwove jump ropes. In Nov they'll learn cardboard Loom and paper plate weaving to create things like coasters. Later we'll learn fabric weaving, and even weaving from recyclables. At home we deliberately work on handcrafts three days a week while I read aloud.

[Bluegoat]

I figure the point of handcrafts is to work on eye-hand coordination and practical skills.  I figure there is more than one way to achieve that.  

 

There are two things I think about with this.

 

One is that is is in part about building a relationship with matter.  CM talked a lot about building direct relationships with ideas, and with God.  But being  Christian, material things are also part of the reality that God made.  So a part of being educated, in the wider sense, is about having relationships with the physical world - so you have nature study, craft or what we might call technology, and the physicality of our own bodies.  So craft is meant in part to allow us to be connected to the world of things and have a human rational and technological connection to them.

 

The other thing is that during CMs life, the Romantic movement was very interested in the resurgences of individual craftsmanship against the kind of production that was happening as a result of the industrial revolution.  There was a real sense that people were losing some of the fundamentals of that relationship - they were dependent on machines, they just bought things in stores, they were actually less able to care for themselves.  And, the factory workers themselves were seen almost as machines rather than people who could work carefully to produce the best product.  On both sides, something important to our humanity was being lost.  CM seems to have hoped for a resurgence of individual craftsmanship along the lines of the arts and crafts movement and other similar social movements.

 

So to me, these parts of her education were significantly about making the students have a respect for crafstmanship, a respect for well done work, a respect for the way technology operates in our lives, and a sense of competence. 

 

At the moment there is a lot of interest in "makers" which I think comes out of much of the same impulse.  There are maker websites which have directions for building things that might be fun for handwork.

 

[FO4UR]

I am not slavish in the way I follow CM principles.  (Please don't take this as a criticism if your family is able to follow neatly into her categories of studies.)  But there is so much more out there than was available when CM was alive and writing - like electronics and robotics.  Of course she doesn't have a section for those.  They didn't exist.  So I put them in the categories of handwork and practical applied sciences.  

 

 

I agree that electronics & robotics (and I'll add lego) fit into what CM called handicrafts and/or science.

 

We can follow CM's foundational principles without recreating a Victorian Era village.  

 

Children should be spending a good amount of time each day on their own pursuits, and these pursuits should be things that build them up, things that strengthen their hands and minds, things that are useful, and things that give joy. 

 

 

Math has also changed.  It's just SO much more.  Regardless, it still must be a living subject or we spin wheels.  kwim.

[Entropymama]

I agree that electronics & robotics (and I'll add lego) fit into what CM called handicrafts and/or science.

 

We can follow CM's foundational principles without recreating a Victorian Era village.  

 

Children should be spending a good amount of time each day on their own pursuits, and these pursuits should be things that build them up, things that strengthen their hands and minds, things that are useful, and things that give joy. 

 

 

Math has also changed.  It's just SO much more.  Regardless, it still must be a living subject or we spin wheels.  kwim.

 

Lego counts?! I'm saved!  :lol:  :lol:

[Holly]

For handicrafts, we've done a variety: drawing/painting, clay sculpting, typing, computer programming, origami, individual projects I've found on Pinterest, cooking, gardening, chess/checkers, building outdoor shelters, chores/housework/yardwork, etc.  There are so many possibilities here, and often my DC explore topics on their own.  One of my DC is into origami and magic tricks.  Another likes drawing and clay sculpting.  They often learn from each other as well as Youtube videos.  Some things I teach them individually or as a group.  There are unlimited handicraft areas to explore!  

 

For folksongs, I tried studying them a few years ago with negative results. They cringed every time I got out the CD we were using.  This year we've been following AO's folksongs, and I just play the video on Youtube twice a week, no singing required.  I don't know if it's a difference in age or what, but they haven't complained at all.  Just because your DC aren't receptive to it now, doesn't mean it will always be so...I think this can be applied to any CM subject! 

[ktgrok]

Wondering if playdoh counts as handiwork...

[lea_lpz]

I did not consider myself a CM hs'er for a long time because I just didn't like those old dusty books. (Never got very far with AO.) And we didn't do nature journals. Or picture studies. Or a passel of short lessons. But then I heard the book Consider This recommended at a Circe conference. I got a copy and read it, and lo and behold, I WAS a CM hs'er. Consider This educated me in the philosophy of CM more than anything I had yet come across. I really got a handle on the overarching principles for the first time (as opposed to just mimicking a method or two) which gives me the confidence to apply them to whatever books or subjects I like. Consider This presents CM learning as very whole-to-parts (rather than analytical) up to puberty. It is a not a long read.

 

Here is the schedule I use for my 3rd-grader:

 

Copywork (10 min?) while listening to music. I will be adding dictation sometime this year.

Circle Time/Read-Aloud Time: Bible story, Bible memory, a few poems, reading aloud (by him) in an Elson Reader, a chapter or two of children's lit (currently Pinnochio). He will narrate one of these items for me.

Math (we use a vintage text here)

Journaling (usually a labeled drawing from something we read)

A chapter of a history overview read on his own (Complete Book of US History). This will switch to a science book for the 2nd semester (Behold and See)

Spanish (La Clase Divertida)

An hour of free reading.

 

We also do recorder, with occasional knitting or art project.

 

Dictation could easily be used to teach grammar. I recommend Bonnie Landry's booklet Dictation.

 

Have you seen the schedules at Simply Charlotte Mason?

This sounds a lot like my schedule with my 3rd grader!

[lea_lpz]

I've not considered myself a CM schooler but we intersect a lot with the practices listed here. It is funny but I checked out Consider This but I never made it all the way through reading it, I certainly agreed with the first section about children being whole persons, now I wish I had finished it(it was ILL). We generally don't do short lessons here either, we are more likely to binge learn something. We do nature study and journals, we do poetry, we do copywork, dictation and narrations, love read-alouds and handi-crafts. We do have separate spelling programs- just because ds has great difficulty with spelling and I just don't want to take the chance. We read old and new books, but the majority are more likely newer, although we enjoy classic lit and some non-fic that are older(I think Fabre is fabulous).

I am not a fan of short lessons in core subjects so we usually have a good 60-90 min lesson in one subject area per day and be done for the week. Thus we have an art & music day, a science day, a history day, etc. Content subjects I keep to short lessons---math, Lang, Spanish, Bible, lit. (Me reading aloud to children), so in that area we 20-30 min lessons. But I don't like snippets of art, science, history projects, etc. I like the feeling if accomplishment when we complete the whole assignment!

[Bluegoat]

Short is, I think, entirely relative to the child's attention span and ability to focus.

[Another Lynn]

I really appreciate this thread right now!  I'm re-reading Consider This and trying to re-claim some CM mojo.  My biggest problems are my own apathy and cynicism (bit o' burn out). 

[KeriJ]

I really appreciate this thread right now!  I'm re-reading Consider This and trying to re-claim some CM mojo.  My biggest problems are my own apathy and cynicism (bit o' burn out). 

 

This. but for me, I would add reality to the list.  It's that balance between ideal and reality.  My personality type thrives on ideal.  But reality is, well....reality.  So sometimes I have to use the workbook for spelling because dictation just isn't getting done. (speaking metaphorically, although that is what we do)  or go to the zoo because we'll never get around to dry brushing.....you get the idea. :)

 

I do think understanding the "why" behind the philosophy is important.  because then I can apply it in my own way.  As much as I love the CM philosophy, I abhor the phrase "Charlotte says to..." or "Charlotte would want us to..."  It seriously makes me cringe.  I appreciate Charlotte's philosophy and all, but she wasn't diety.  What I appreciate are researching some of her methods and realizing that they are backed up by current studies.  as well as seeing how well they work for my own children.  I can't do things just because Charlotte said.

 

So, sometimes, we don't do everything she said, or exactly the way she said it, or use the exact books she used.  But we do apply the philosophy to modern day life.  and I for one, think she would have loved nature and travel documentaries since you can almost experience the real thing rather than just reading about it in a textbook.

 

Take the philosophy and apply it to your own family, with your own take on it.  There are no Charlotte Mason police who are going to come take you away for not doing exactly what Charlotte say, though you may be "bullied" online (not here) by those who may claim that you can't do just part of it or it won't work, or that you have to follow her actual writings down to each jot and tittle.  Much of the philosophy is just common sense to me, and much of it is backed up by science.  Keep what makes sense to you and leave the rest.

[KeriJ]

another example from our family.  We use Rod and Staff spelling books for a few years.  But the way we use them doesn't violate any CM principles.  We don't memorize the lists or take a test.  We work through the exercises which gives a child the chance to imprint correct spellings into his mind as well as developing the habit of close attention by carefully following the directions and follows the principle of short lessons since it only takes mere minutes to complete a page 2x a week.  

 

It might not follow the CM way perfectly,  and yes, it's a taboo workbook, but for me it's close enough.  Then we switch to dictation after that.

[Entropymama]

In regards to spelling, we've always used the Spelling Workout books. They worked for my daughters well enough, but they are natural spellers. My son is in 6th grade and struggles with spelling. He's done dictation and the SWO books. What resources would you recommend? 

[enchantedhome]

 

 

Take the philosophy and apply it to your own family, with your own take on it.  There are no Charlotte Mason police who are going to come take you away for not doing exactly what Charlotte say, though you may be "bullied" online (not here) by those who may claim that you can't do just part of it or it won't work, or that you have to follow her actual writings down to each jot and tittle.  

 

Thank you for saying this. It feels comforting to know that someone else has had this experience and come to the same conclusions. I have been in CM groups IRL and online where it does feel like the CM police are going to read me the riot act for not requiring narrations for every reading or for letting lessons go longer than 10 minutes. 

 

I like a lot of what CM had to say. She was very smart, and she clearly knew children. But, yeah, not a deity, and certainly her ideas cannot possibly be applied "perfectly" in every circumstance and in every family. Once I was able to see that, know it to be true, and move on with happiness, I was able to enjoy Mason's ideas. Her followers almost killed it for me  ;) 

 

[FO4UR]

In regards to spelling, we've always used the Spelling Workout books. They worked for my daughters well enough, but they are natural spellers. My son is in 6th grade and struggles with spelling. He's done dictation and the SWO books. What resources would you recommend? 

 

Apples & Pears. If that is too much/too fast, try what I have linked in my siggie.  A&P will get him spelling at college-ready level faster if there are no LD issues involved.

 

 

 

I like a lot of what CM had to say. She was very smart, and she clearly knew children. But, yeah, not a deity, and certainly her ideas cannot possibly be applied "perfectly" in every circumstance and in every family. Once I was able to see that, know it to be true, and move on with happiness, I was able to enjoy Mason's ideas. Her followers almost killed it for me  ;)

 

 

In order for her ideas to be useful we must understand the world in which she lived, and seek to understand the principle guiding the practical.  The practicals can and should change.  The principles will apply as long as children are children.  What CM did, in fact, was take ancient principles and apply them in her Victorian England...likewise, we can take the principles she put in Victorian Era English and apply them in modern American culture.  

 

This old blog post began as a reaction to a similar discussion.

[lea_lpz]

I use Rod and Staff spelling too! We tried it last year for 2nd grade and it was a hit so I stuck with it. I need her to do some work independently when I do k with her brother (I also have a 1 1/2 year old) and she can do her spelling mostly on her own. I also have her do phonics, math, free reading, Rosetta Stone Spanish and book basket on her own, so that gives me 60-90 minutes a day.

 

I incorporate CM principles to Lang Arts by using a CM friendly grammar program I teach (language lessons for today), handwriting, and journal narration 3-4 days a week. I also do memory work by having her memorize Bible verses and poetry. Our literature is based on "living books"---historical fiction, biographies, etc. I think while perhaps not to tee that qualifies as largely CM.

 

We also do picture studies, handicrafts, drawing, and cooking, usually tied into our unit themes, but I consider that more as art.

 

It never occurred to me I had to be all or nothing. A little CM, a little unit studies, a little get 'er done, seems like a good fit to me!

[beka87]

Sorry, but what is MHLW?  I saw it a few times scanning this thread and I don't think I've seen that abbreviation before.  Thanks!

[FO4UR]

Sorry, but what is MHLW?  I saw it a few times scanning this thread and I don't think I've seen that abbreviation before.  Thanks!

 

 

It's a book titled Madame How, Lady Why.  

[Bluegoat]

In regards to spelling, we've always used the Spelling Workout books. They worked for my daughters well enough, but they are natural spellers. My son is in 6th grade and struggles with spelling. He's done dictation and the SWO books. What resources would you recommend? 

 

Last year was the only year I've done a spelling program.  DD10 was complaining that she was having trouble writing because it took so long to find out the words she didn't know, and she didn't want to write to people.

 

e used sequentiol Selling for the year, just the paper version, not the videos.  It is pretty straightforward - you give a "test" each day, they write the words down, and you watch and correct as soon as they begin to make a mistake.  The lists are organized into families and they build on themselves.  We just did lvl 1 but there are quite a few levels if you want - my dd felt that after that, she could do what she wanted.  And her spelling actually did improve significantly within weeks of starting.  There is no studying - it is doing the tests that is the studying.

 

I thought the only thing about the method that wasn't typically "CM" was that it wasn't integrated into texts.  However, my dd was motivated to practice this so she could get better at the skill quickly, so I saw it as being rather like math drill.  And I liked that it really involved no wasted time, it was only about seven minutes a day.

 

It was also very cheap, and you don't really need the student book so you can use the program for as many students as you like.  All students start at lvl 1, but I think you wouldn't want to use it with kids that are not writing easily yet or reading well.

[Entropymama]

Last year was the only year I've done a spelling program.  DD10 was complaining that she was having trouble writing because it took so long to find out the words she didn't know, and she didn't want to write to people.

 

e used sequentiol Selling for the year, just the paper version, not the videos.  It is pretty straightforward - you give a "test" each day, they write the words down, and you watch and correct as soon as they begin to make a mistake.  The lists are organized into families and they build on themselves.  We just did lvl 1 but there are quite a few levels if you want - my dd felt that after that, she could do what she wanted.  And her spelling actually did improve significantly within weeks of starting.  There is no studying - it is doing the tests that is the studying.

 

I thought the only thing about the method that wasn't typically "CM" was that it wasn't integrated into texts.  However, my dd was motivated to practice this so she could get better at the skill quickly, so I saw it as being rather like math drill.  And I liked that it really involved no wasted time, it was only about seven minutes a day.

 

It was also very cheap, and you don't really need the student book so you can use the program for as many students as you like.  All students start at lvl 1, but I think you wouldn't want to use it with kids that are not writing easily yet or reading well.

 

We used Sequential Spelling when my oldest was in first, but I found it took too much time. We were doing 20-30 minutes per day of spelling! Maybe it's different in the older grades? Or maybe if a sixth grader is doing level one it goes faster! :) 

[beka87]

And I've heard of MHLW!  I didn't make the connection, however...oops.  Thsnks for clarifying!

[EmilyGF]

We used Sequential Spelling when my oldest was in first, but I found it took too much time. We were doing 20-30 minutes per day of spelling! Maybe it's different in the older grades? Or maybe if a sixth grader is doing level one it goes faster! :)

Kids who can write quickly can do it quickly. My daughter takes 10-15 min.

Emily

[Bluegoat]

We used Sequential Spelling when my oldest was in first, but I found it took too much time. We were doing 20-30 minutes per day of spelling! Maybe it's different in the older grades? Or maybe if a sixth grader is doing level one it goes faster! :)

 

I can't imagine using SS with a first grader..  We used it in for fourth, and I can also see using it for third.  Or - any older kids as well, or even adults.  It took as about 7 min per day.

 

I would probably not use any spelling program for a first grader, we did copywork at that point.

[lea_lpz]

I can't imagine using SS with a first grader.. We used it in for fourth, and I can also see using it for third. Or - any older kids as well, or even adults. It took as about 7 min per day.

 

I would probably not use any spelling program for a first grader, we did copywork at that point.

We waited for spelling until 2nd grade. I felt it did make sense to start until she was solidly reading. We waited to start gentle grammar in 3rd, because she was pretty much done with phonics. She's doing etc books 6-8 this year but more a review than anything else.

[lea_lpz]

I can't imagine using SS with a first grader.. We used it in for fourth, and I can also see using it for third. Or - any older kids as well, or even adults. It took as about 7 min per day.

 

I would probably not use any spelling program for a first grader, we did copywork at that point.

We waited for spelling until 2nd grade. I felt it did make sense to start until she was solidly reading. We waited to start gentle grammar in 3rd, because she was pretty much done with phonics. She's doing etc books 6-8 this year but more a review than anything else.