AimeeM Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Is there anything in the adoption order about contact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Here in Australia the biological parents have the right to access visits a minimum of 4 per year but possibly more if the parent is successful at court until the child is 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Is there anything in the adoption order about contact? ..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Here in Australia the biological parents have the right to access visits a minimum of 4 per year but possibly more if the parent is successful at court until the child is 18 .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 The only difference between permanent care and adoption in Australia is that the child can inherit without being explicitly included in the will if adopted. Bio- parents still retain the right to access visits. The ability for parents to have access visits ongoing is based on some theory that the children will end up better adjusted if they know where they have come from. We will get permanent care for the twins. the training we did was the exact same for adoption as permanent care. Adoption is pretty rare in Australia, people don't really put their children up for adoption and children removed from parents and are in foster care for around 2 years go for permanent care. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneezyone Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I'm pretty sure I'm going to hear that this varies by state. I'm curious what the laws are regarding the biological parent of an adopted child (who is still a minor) contacting that child, behind the adoptive parents' backs. I know that the adoptive parents have the right to refuse to allow contact, but can the birth parent continue to try to contact the child - legally - without the consent of the child's parents? Unwanted and repeated contact from anyone is against the law when a restraining order is issued and, in the case of minors, parents can make the call to seek one. That doesn't mean it would be granted though. Does the child want the contact? How old is the child? Anything older than 12 and he/she is likely to be granted a say in court. Is the child nearing the age of adulthood or the age at which they can consent to bioparent contact (which is usually 18)? If so, why would the adoptive parents risk alienating themselves from their child by opposing (rather than facilitating/managing) reunification? Did the bioparent voluntarily relinquish (no abuse in family of origin) or is he/she likely to introduce risky behaviors? Is the child emotionally secure? Barring unhealthy stuff in the bioparent's/child's life, I'd seriously wonder what the adoptive parents were afraid of. It was a poor choice on the bioparent's part (to go behind the parents' back) but it's also not uncommon for adoptive parents to interfere with reunification so I can see why he/she may have tried that approach. As an adoptive parent myself, I know that I welcome the chance to help my child learn more about her family of origin and feel bad that her biomom severed that connection. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Legally, I don't think they are supposed to. Do they, yes. How you handle it depends so much in the age of the child, reason for termination, behavior if the bio parent, risks, etc. My friend is dealing with this now as the bio mom of her older 3 just got out of prison again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I could repeat a lot of the above. If the court order does not specify contact (and some states do allow for an enforceable contact order now), then contact is up to the (adoptive) parents. As an adoptive parent who is part of two open adoptions, and supportive of open adoption, I have to wonder why the bio parent did this behind the adoptive parents' backs? It feels unethical, and a bit sneaking and underhanded. Like the bio parents thought the adoptive parents would say no, so they did it this way? That would make me uncomfortable - and wonder why. Open adoptions work best when there is clear communication between all parties. At this point, I'd suggest that the adoptive parents step back emotionally from the shock, and ask themselves if they're ready to open the adoption further. Then contact the bio parents, and say that they are understanding, from their actions, that they'd like more openness. Then open a forthright dialogue about what that could look like. Most likely, this is just an attempt to bring more openness to the relationship, and if everyone participates it will feel better for all. It's not always easy to have an open adoption, but it can be great for the kids. And for everyone. But it has to be open. That's the key word. So, while it might or might not be illegal, I guess I'd encourage everyone to think about what works best for the child, and if it's time for some increased openness - make it happen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 "Can" they? Yes. Are they legally allowed to? Not if the adoptive parents don't want them to and the adoption agreement precludes it. I know someone who found out bio mom was contacting her under-18 daughter. They put a stop to it, but acknowledged that at age 18 the daughter could contact bio mom if she wished (she did and has a basic relationship with her bio mom to this day). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 It sounds like in this case the parental rights were court ordered terminated, not a bio parent making an adoption plan. Very different situations. Often in court orders terminations there are very compelling reasons for the birth parents NOT to have contact with the child. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 It sounds like in this case the parental rights were court ordered terminated, not a bio parent making an adoption plan. Very different situations. Often in court orders terminations there are very compelling reasons for the birth parents NOT to have contact with the child. The one I know it was termination of parental rights. There were definite reasons to not have contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 It sounds like in this case the parental rights were court ordered terminated, not a bio parent making an adoption plan. Very different situations. Often in court orders terminations there are very compelling reasons for the birth parents NOT to have contact with the child. Yes. Could be different situations. I read that rights were terminated, and new BC issued, etc - which happens in our state even with an adoption plan on bioparents' part. The process is essentially the same as OP described. That's not the same as a child being removed from a parent and then having rights terminated, unwillingly. Since she said it was cut and dry, I jumped to thinking it was not a foster care type scenario, or that rights were terminated as a result of a court order. That's a different scenario. We have both. One through a plan, one through foster care. Both are open (though to be fair, open at our discretion) but they are radically different experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneezyone Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Every adoption requires the termination of parental rights, even voluntary placements. Like Spryte, the fact that the OP mentioned the enforcability of open adoption agreements and said the process was cut and dry, suggested to me that this one was private. I don't know of many foster-adopt situations that were cut and dry, or where openness and picture-sharing was encouraged by the state (since there are generally very serious issues in the family of origin for the state to get involved). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooCow Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I'm going to give my perspective. Bio dad's parental rights terminated by court. Abuse, drugs, etc. New husband adopts the child/children. Bio dad pops in years later on social media. The legal father (and the mom) threaten legal action after numerous times of telling bio dad to bugger off. He does. But then he comes back when one child turns 18. He is warned to stay away from other minor child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 I'm going to give my perspective. Bio dad's parental rights terminated by court. Abuse, drugs, etc. New husband adopts the child/children. Bio dad pops in years later on social media. The legal father (and the mom) threaten legal action after numerous times of telling bio dad to bugger off. He does. But then he comes back when one child turns 18. He is warned to stay away from other minor child. .... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Aimee, I am pretty sure you can ask these questions directly at the friend of court or GAL for your county for free, or through community legal aide at county services. They will know the exact laws of your area, and have good advice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooCow Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I understand. It's quite the balancing act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Aimee, I am pretty sure you can ask these questions directly at the friend of court or GAL for your county for free, or through community legal aide at county services. They will know the exact laws of your area, and have good advice. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneezyone Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 As a general rule, in any situation, I think it's important that kids get as much of the truth as they can handle (and usually that's more than we give them credit for) so as to avoid later misunderstandings. If the biofather has a history of crossing boundaries and is continuing to insinuate himself despite your requests, I'd seek a restraining order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 As a general rule, in any situation, I think it's important that kids get as much of the truth as they can handle (and usually that's more than we give them credit for) so as to avoid later misunderstandings. If the biofather has a history of crossing boundaries and is continuing to insinuate himself despite your requests, I'd seek a restraining order. .... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Gah, Aimee. That truly stinks. I'm sorry your DD and you and your family are going through this. :grouphug: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Aimee, ouch. I think talking to your attorney right away is a good idea. You may need another restraining order. Stepparent adoption is a different beast, and not at all what I thought of when reading your posts, so disregard anything I said. Let me know if I should delete this after you read it, ok? Stay safe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneezyone Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Yeah, this is your older, correct? It's probably time to clue her in as to exactly what happened and why. If there's the potential for danger there, she needs to know it. Would she eagerly entertain his overtures at some later date b/c she lacks full knowledge? That would be my concern. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Ugh. Talk about a nightmare. I think this will vary. :( I am sorry. Bio parents do retain some rights in some cases but I hope for your daughter's sake he will have to wait a long time. My dad did recover and now we have a good relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Ugh. Talk about a nightmare. I think this will vary. :( I am sorry. Bio parents do retain some rights in some cases but I hope for your daughter's sake he will have to wait a long time. My dad did recover and now we have a good relationship. ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Yeah, this is your older, correct? It's probably time to clue her in as to exactly what happened and why. If there's the potential for danger there, she needs to know it. Would she eagerly entertain his overtures at some later date b/c she lacks full knowledge? That would be my concern. .... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah CB Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I don't think she would eagerly entertain him, no. I do think we need to tell her the truth, though, if only because she is getting closer to 18 and needs to know before she considers even speaking to him when she comes of age. She is the one who told me that he sent the request. I think it shook her up. This is one reason I hate Facebook. It makes it way too easy for people to creep out of the woodwork and into other people's lives. He probably never would have taken the effort to actually write her a letter or even call. FB makes it too easy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 The only difference between permanent care and adoption in Australia is that the child can inherit without being explicitly included in the will if adopted. Bio- parents still retain the right to access visits. The ability for parents to have access visits ongoing is based on some theory that the children will end up better adjusted if they know where they have come from. We will get permanent care for the twins. the training we did was the exact same for adoption as permanent care. Adoption is pretty rare in Australia, people don't really put their children up for adoption and children removed from parents and are in foster care for around 2 years go for permanent care. As an Adoptee that feels very strongly about Adoptee Rights and the corruption of the Adoption Industry, particularly in the U.S., this makes a lot of sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 He has no legal right to contact with dd. At the age of 16, she has a right to the unvarnished story of her childhood and biological father. I would likely involve a therapist experienced in adoption if this were my situation so that dd could have a place to vent, process, and get support. I would make her FB page (and yours) completely private and unsearchable. I would send him a clear message that he is not to contact her again. When she is an adult, she is free to make her own choices regarding her bio father. Having the unvarnished information as a 16 year old gives her time to process this before legal adulthood. Adoption is an ongoing adjustment, involving ongoing grief, loss, guilt, decisions, and other complex issues. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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