So, how do you plan for a kid that hasn't expressed a strong inclination?

[AppleGreen]

I am specifically thinking of our science sequence for the upcoming four years. If I knew my child were pursuing a STEM field, it would be a no brainer and we would go ahead with biology. But, my child has absolutely no idea what field he/she wants to pursue. "I am fourteen. How am supposed to know what I want to do? I am still a kid," is what I get when I ask. Lol

 

I really don't want to make choices because of some external pressure to fulfill requirements that may not pertain to us.  My child is not inclined to choose an academically challenging path.

 

On one hand, bio is the obvious choice to leave the door open to a STEM major or higher science options (thinking AP options). The other side of me says, my child is not showing a strong inclination in that direction, so use this 9th grade year to pursue some science interests (kind of what another poster said on the 9th grade science thread about physical science vs. bio). This child has had some physical science last year and chemistry the year before, so it's not like there hasn't been exposure.  

 

This is kind of driving me crazy. My child really does not have a strong preference toward either path. I think whatever I present will probably be fine. So, what have those of you with a similar type of child done? Any regrets or wisdom pt pass along would be gladly welcomed. 

[Tess in the Burbs]

:lurk5:   my son has no interests.  asks me all the time what's the easiest job he can get as an adult to live well....it shouldn't involve thinking or physical labor.  Goodness  :huh:

 

I toy with just doing the minimum and letting him learn the hard way when older vs. making him do college prep just in case he matures enough by then. 

[PeterPan]

I think you are always good rolling with interests.  If doing bio means skipping something she's more interested in, I would go with the interest.  And my lots of interests, not necessarily one specific interest, not-STEM dd will probably do 3 years of science and maybe DE a semester, no AP.  It's just not necessary for her.

[DebbS]

At 14, it isn't unusual for a person to have not found a passion yet. That's really fine because the highschool years aren't intended to be focused too much in one area. IMO, wider is better at this age.  College is when one gains the depth in a particular subject. 

 

If you are planning on your child going to college, a certain amount of  highschool science coursework will be expected whether they are going for STEM or not. For example, the liberal arts university where my son is enrolled as a non-STEM major still expected 3 years of science and 3.5 years of math in highschool. But, a certain amount of english, foreign language, writing, history, etc...are also expected. Again...wide rather than deep.

 

If you follow the high school degree requirements for your state and also look at the requirements for any colleges that your child might want to attend, you're on pretty safe ground. The expected coursework variation isn't terribly great from state to state, college to college.  Pretty much you'll want to include a science, math, english/writing and history/social sciences component most years if not every year. Then add a few years of foreign language and fill it out with the subjects that your child finds interesting or that might be useful.

 

[regentrude]

*I* have standards what I consider necessary in high school to be an educated graduate. A main goal is not to close doors - espcially with a kid who does not know what he wants. Thus, I plan our homeschool so that it satisfies the admissions requirements for good colleges. Which means 4x5: four years of math, science, English, social science and foreign language. Within those categories, I consider my student's interests and abilities, and they are free to pick electives of their choice.

 

The whole inclination issue is two fold: a student who definitely will not go into STEM needs an especially strong high school foundation in sciences, since he won't be taking any more science in college - and conversely, a student who will go into STEM needs a strong humanities foundation, since he won't be taking many humanities courses. So, the possible inclinations for post-high school education do not really afect what I do in high school.

[The Girls' Mom]

None of my kids really knew what they wanted to do at the end of 8th grade.  (most kids don't).  I wanted them to be ABLE to choose a path easily later, whatever that may be.  This meant giving them the classes that most colleges expect a kid to have taken in high school. Only one is going into a STEM field, but they all took Biology and Chemistry, as those are pretty standard expectations. The 3rd (and 4th in some cases) science classes later on was where their interests were followed more.

[albeto.]

I am specifically thinking of our science sequence for the upcoming four years. If I knew my child were pursuing a STEM field, it would be a no brainer and we would go ahead with biology. But, my child has absolutely no idea what field he/she wants to pursue. "I am fourteen. How am supposed to know what I want to do? I am still a kid," is what I get when I ask. Lol

 

What does your kid do on his/her down time? What do they gravitate towards on off hours?

[AppleGreen]

Thanks all! I am running out the door and will be back to answer questions etc. later. I just want to clarify; we will definitely be doing science next year  and for all 4 years of HS. I am trying to figure out merits of bio vs. something else, especially when you have a kid that hasn't shown a strong science inclination thus far. 

 

So appreciate the feedback and thoughts! You all are great. 

[Mom22ns]

Thanks all! I am running out the door and will be back to answer questions etc. later. I just want to clarify; we will definitely be doing science next year  and for all 4 years of HS. I am trying to figure out merits of bio vs. something else, especially when you have a kid that hasn't shown a strong science inclination thus far. 

 

So appreciate the feedback and thoughts! You all are great. 

 

Is there something else he really wants to do? If he has a strong interest outside of Biology, that is fine. If he doesn't have a strong interest at all, I'd do Biology and continue with a standard high school science track until his interest leads him somewhere else.

 

To me, the standard high school track is designed for students who don't know what they want to do. They cycle through a broad range of subjects. I only deviate as they find an interest. 

[DebbS]

The whole inclination issue is two fold: a student who definitely will not go into STEM needs an especially strong high school foundation in sciences, since he won't be taking any more science in college - and conversely, a student who will go into STEM needs a strong humanities foundation, since he won't be taking many humanities courses. So, the possible inclinations for post-high school education do not really afect what I do in high school.

 

I agree.

[AppleGreen]

*I* have standards what I consider necessary in high school to be an educated graduate. A main goal is not to close doors - espcially with a kid who does not know what he wants. Thus, I plan our homeschool so that it satisfies the admissions requirements for good colleges. Which means 4x5: four years of math, science, English, social science and foreign language. Within those categories, I consider my student's interests and abilities, and they are free to pick electives of their choice.

 

 

The whole inclination issue is two fold: a student who definitely will not go into STEM needs an especially strong high school foundation in sciences, since he won't be taking any more science in college - and conversely, a student who will go into STEM needs a strong humanities foundation, since he won't be taking many humanities courses. So, the possible inclinations for post-high school education do not really afect what I do in high school.

I had an "aha" moment in reading this.  You very clearly articulated something I think is so true, but have never put into words. Thank you.  It has always been my intention to follow the 4x5 plan.

 

Your second paragraph is very helpful in realistically framing the importance of each path.

[AppleGreen]

What does your kid do on his/her down time? What do they gravitate towards on off hours?

Hmm, good questions! Lots of reading, just getting interested in some outdoor pursuits, theatre, rc vehicles and talking, lots of talking.  :001_smile:

 

ETA: Minecraft and taking things apart.

[AppleGreen]

Is there something else he really wants to do? If he has a strong interest outside of Biology, that is fine. If he doesn't have a strong interest at all, I'd do Biology and continue with a standard high school science track until his interest leads him somewhere else.

 

To me, the standard high school track is designed for students who don't know what they want to do. They cycle through a broad range of subjects. I only deviate as they find an interest. 

This is a very helpful way of thinking through this. Thank you.

[AppleGreen]

Lots of great food for thought. Thank you all! I am sorry I have not mastered the multiquote function, so my responses are rather clunky. Apologies.

[albeto.]

Hmm, good questions! Lots of reading, just getting interested in some outdoor pursuits, theatre, rc vehicles and talking, lots of talking.  :001_smile:

 

ETA: Minecraft and taking things apart.

 

What does s/he read and talk about? What about vehicles?

[AppleGreen]

What does s/he read and talk about?

Anything and everything. Seriously, s/he is a voracious reader. Graphic novels, John Greene, The Dorrito Effect is currently on the night stand (actually in the bed), Hunger Games, comics. We're getting into some interesting philosophical conversations, but also just 14 year old chat about self and Minecraft strategies. 

[texasmama]

My main passion at 14 was teenage boys.  My College Girl's main passion at 14 was angst and boys.  My current 14 year old's passion seems to be Clash of Clans.  

 

In 9th grade, I took Biology, College Girl took biology, and Clash of Clans boy will take biology.  My goal, as regentrude said, is not to close doors.  Unless presented with another, compelling option from the kid, we will default to the standard 9th grade science, which is - wait for it - Biology!

 

I do expect that my current 14 year old might do a meterology study for a semester later on in his high school science rotation, because it has been a long-standing interest of his.  For now, we are on a pretty steady path which is also pretty predictable, and that is what this particular kid needs.

[albeto.]

Anything and everything. Seriously, s/he is a voracious reader. Graphic novels, John Greene, The Dorrito Effect is currently on the night stand (actually in the bed), Hunger Games, comics. We're getting into some interesting philosophical conversations, but also just 14 year old chat about self and Minecraft strategies. 

 

Minecraft, taking things apart, vehicles, and even the analytical approach to life (talking about anything and everything) makes me thing of interests in engineering, and/or physical sciences in general. I'd continue to offer books, tv shows, and other opportunities to explore these kinds of things. Continue to provide a solid science and math foundation, and eventually something will inspire your child a bit more than other things. Until then, I wouldn't make comments or encouraging statements about careers. That kind of pressure can put a real damper on a genuine interest. I know 14 feels so old, but there's so much growth yet to happen in these next few years. The more eye-opening experiences you can provide, the more your child will enjoy their education. And really, that's an enormously valuable gift to give a child - enjoying the process of learning. Something will jump out, either because of an interesting thing, or an interesting person. College is full of interesting persons, and classes, and ideas, so I don't think you've got anything to worry about. Of course, as a mother, I know that doesn't mean we don't worry. ;-)

[MerryAtHope]

I am specifically thinking of our science sequence for the upcoming four years. If I knew my child were pursuing a STEM field, it would be a no brainer and we would go ahead with biology. But, my child has absolutely no idea what field he/she wants to pursue. "I am fourteen. How am supposed to know what I want to do? I am still a kid," is what I get when I ask. Lol

 

Rather than asking your student what he/she wants to pursue career-wise or college-major, ask what your student is interested in now--what kind of science would your student like to learn more about? Let this be a time of exploration rather than strictly prep for a future career-track. I think the main job is to keep doors open. Consider less traditional topics as possibilities too.

 

One of mine (non-stem) did physical science, robotics, and biology for high school science. (I insisted on one typical lab-science, though they all had labs, and at least one school we looked at required biology specifically.) He chose all 3, but robotics was more of an interest, while the other two were concessions between possible choices. Most colleges we looked at wanted 3 years of science with 1 or 2 being labs, so we stuck with 3 and used the extra time to pursue other electives. 

 

My possibly stem student has liked the regular progression (biology, chemistry, physics this year, and has plans to do advanced biology next year--that seems to be her favorite field. She does a science fair yearly, which allows her to pursue specific interests as well.

 

Have fun with it!

[Sunshine State Sue]

 am sorry I have not mastered the multiquote function, so my responses are rather clunky.

It's not you.  I believe the multi-quote function is broken these days.

[Deee]

You could pick four different areas of interest and call it integrated science. After all, thats what the UK and Australian education systems do. This year, year 9, DS14 will cover anatomy and physiology, reproduction, chemical reactions, forensics, wave theory and Newton's laws. It works well. DS likes physics and chemistry (he has an IT and mechanical engineering bent). He'd be vile if he had to sit through a year of biology. I loathe physics and have a science degree majoring in molecular biology. I'd be vile with a whole year of physics!

D

[Mom22ns]

You could pick four different areas of interest and call it integrated science. 

 

I wouldn't do this in the US assuming you have no idea where he might go to college. I have seen several colleges that list science requirements including statements that exclude general science (which would be another term for Integrated Science). General/integrated science is usually only used as a remedial option in US high schools thus isn't always accepted among US colleges. It may not be an issue where he ends up applying, but as others have said, I aim not to close doors and this one might do just that.

 

From our state flagship:

 

• Science: Three units* (not including general science), one of which must be a lab

[AppleGreen]

 

I wouldn't do this in the US assuming you have no idea where he might go to college. I have seen several colleges that list science requirements including statements that exclude general science (which would be another term for Integrated Science). General/integrated science is usually only used as a remedial option in US high schools thus isn't always accepted among US colleges. It may not be an issue where he ends up applying, but as others have said, I aim not to close doors and this one might do just that.

 

From our state flagship:

 

• Science: Three units* (not including general science), one of which must be a lab

 

Good to know, although I wouldn't be able to pull off an integrated science class anyway! This will be the last year of science from me. :)

 

It seems environmental ed or earth science is the standard 9th grade science in my neck of the woods (in the public HS). Even the STEM HS only offers their 9th graders earth science honors class and/or a physical science class. Everyone here is on a block schedule, so I am guessing kids could take both in a single year, but I am not 100% certain. 

[AppleGreen]

Minecraft, taking things apart, vehicles, and even the analytical approach to life (talking about anything and everything) makes me thing of interests in engineering, and/or physical sciences in general. I'd continue to offer books, tv shows, and other opportunities to explore these kinds of things. Continue to provide a solid science and math foundation, and eventually something will inspire your child a bit more than other things. Until then, I wouldn't make comments or encouraging statements about careers. That kind of pressure can put a real damper on a genuine interest. I know 14 feels so old, but there's so much growth yet to happen in these next few years. The more eye-opening experiences you can provide, the more your child will enjoy their education. And really, that's an enormously valuable gift to give a child - enjoying the process of learning. Something will jump out, either because of an interesting thing, or an interesting person. College is full of interesting persons, and classes, and ideas, so I don't think you've got anything to worry about. Of course, as a mother, I know that doesn't mean we don't worry. ;-)

Thanks for all off this, especially the bolded. 

[bettyandbob]

I planned high school so that my dc would have the option of choosing a direction. Some kids really don't know what they like at 13 or 14. Other kids change their minds. So, I wanted them to have a foundation gat would serve them in humanities, STEM, social sciences or business. So, initially I planned four science classes (bio, chem, physics, plus adv level of one of them ) , math all the way through (for my dc that meant 6 credits since they started algebra in 7 th grade), several years of foreign language, writing, literature and history. They also did at least one elective of their choosing each year. By senior year they both had vague directions of what they wanted and had the academic background to start college in that field.

 

I think it's important to start high school keeping all doors open. If by junior and senior year the student really knows what they want you can help them begin to specialize.

[Prairie~Phlox]

I'm having my students that are on a path to technical careers and the technical college do Biology and Chemistry this way: http://www.the101series.com/

Plus a few other things thrown in, but I don't feel that if it's not their passion, then I need to make them do an intense course.  We are focusing on other things that they need for their future careers, but I do feel it's important to meet the requirements and introduce them to these topics. 

[Reefgazer]

LOL! This made me laugh. My DS has aspirations and dreams, but this is pretty much his attitude toward everything.

 

OP, I would hold my child to the highest standards possible, and prepare them for college with a solid college preparatory education, to include 3 to 4 years of a language, and four years each of English, history, science, and math at the college prep level. That way you will not be closing out any of his options, but will be leaving the door open to just about anything he wants to pursue.

 

:lurk5: my son has no interests. asks me all the time what's the easiest job he can get as an adult to live well....it shouldn't involve thinking or physical labor. Goodness :huh:

 

I toy with just doing the minimum and letting him learn the hard way when older vs. making him do college prep just in case he matures enough by then.

[Mom22ns]

Good to know, although I wouldn't be able to pull off an integrated science class anyway! This will be the last year of science from me. :)

 

It seems environmental ed or earth science is the standard 9th grade science in my neck of the woods (in the public HS). Even the STEM HS only offers their 9th graders earth science honors class and/or a physical science class. Everyone here is on a block schedule, so I am guessing kids could take both in a single year, but I am not 100% certain. 

 

You said he is starting to get interested in outdoor pursuits, would he be more interested in Environmental Science instead of Biology? That is a good contemporary science option. 

[Deee]

" General/integrated science is usually only used as a remedial option in US "

 

Ouch! Forget I bothered. Back to lurking for me. Or maybe I will go and concentrate on my STEM-bound son's "remedial" integrate science syllabus.

[G5052]

Yes, keep the doors open. Neither of mine are leaning toward a STEM field at all, but my graduate has four years of science with lab, and my younger one will too.

 

I went to college as a broadcasting major and ended up in a STEM field with a humanities minor. Good figure. I teach a STEM field at two different community colleges, but the majority of my other paid work is in a field that I didn't study at all in college. Thankfully my high school education was very rigorous and prepared me for anything.

 

I especially pushed mine in the 3 R's -- reading, writing, and math.  From there the rest was good too, but a solid background in the 3 R's always came first, even when they were little.

 

My oldest has only figured out a major in the last six months or so, and I'm telling him to be flexible as he starts college this fall.  The MAJORITY of college students change majors. Truly. Even friends of ours who went off with a particular plan in the engineering redirected somewhat in their focus as they worked in the field first via co-ops and then in their first position.

 

 

[DebbS]

Deee....I'm sure that you will provide an excellent science foundation for your son. But, it is good to know that some colleges might not rate it well if you describe it that way. Which is kind of funny given that many of their own graduates receive degrees in integrated sciences....you know, like molecular biology perhaps!

 

I find it really helpful to actually talk to admissions people at each college to find out how they want to see a homeschool transcript. Mostly they have told me that they want to see the course detail and resources so that they can see what we actually covered regardless of what we called the class. I also included biographies because they were interested in my qualifications and the qualifications of other people that taught/mentored my children. I'm sure that bit of information will help make your science program stand out. Overall, they look at the homeschool transcript more carefully than other transcripts - even the very large institutions seem to do this. Once you know what they're looking for, you can decide to name the courses accordingly even if that means making them 1/4 unit, trimester or semester courses to separate them out into the usual Physics, Biology, Chemistry.

 

Oh yeah....and I hope you don't stop posting.  I like your approach.

 

 

[AppleGreen]

" General/integrated science is usually only used as a remedial option in US "

 

Ouch! Forget I bothered. Back to lurking for me. Or maybe I will go and concentrate on my STEM-bound son's "remedial" integrate science syllabus.

FWIW, when I read that suggested it sounded like a very interesting, deep course. I know many European countries teach science as an integrated class, and it makes a great deal of sense. I definitely do not have the science knowledge or expertise to pull off a class like that, but I absolutely do not doubt it can be done very well. I appreciate you offering your perspective!

[AppleGreen]

You said he is starting to get interested in outdoor pursuits, would he be more interested in Environmental Science instead of Biology? That is a good contemporary science option. 

Maybe. He's been gone, but we will check in tomorrow on this topic. I have to say I have the first 10 weeks of bio planned; it may be hard to switch gears now.

[Mom22ns]

" General/integrated science is usually only used as a remedial option in US "

 

Ouch! Forget I bothered. Back to lurking for me. Or maybe I will go and concentrate on my STEM-bound son's "remedial" integrate science syllabus.

 

Dee, I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to be insulting. I just know that some colleges in my area won't accept the credit. My ds heading off to college this year is a writing major not a STEM student. I was just trying to warn the OP of the risk of that course title (and I think the warning is good for you to know too). I am very sorry if my post insulted you. Please don't feel you can't participate because I disagree with your suggestion. I'm no board god that can say what is right or wrong. It is the variety of opinions and information that brings me to TWM boards, not the single-mindedness.