athomeontheprairie Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 This is not a debate. It is a vent. I'm an oe Christian. My daughter just came home from a 3 day camp our church puts on. All the teaching was on ye and.... I am so mad. Ye/oe Is NOT a salvation issue! It's not a discipleship issue. It's not a moral issue. Both Ye and oe can see the glory of Lord in nature and science. Don't make it about the age of the earth. I'm so angry! So angry! 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm ye. I love to talk about it and I do under the right circumstances, but no it's not a salvation issue and you should feel welcome to come in my home and worship God with me without that being a concern. I'm sorry she was put in that position. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Totally agree with you. I don't even know why this is a " thing". 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomeontheprairie Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm ye. I love to talk about it and I do under the right circumstances, but no it's not a salvation issue and you should feel welcome to come in my home and worship God with me without that being a concern. I'm sorry she was put in that position. I would love to come worship God with you. :-) there are a million things that could be taught to a group of 10-12 yo's. I'm upset this is the topic they chose. There are so many things. Side note, I just finished "a matter of days" by Hugh Ross. He talks a lot about the historical church and their interpretations of the scripture and oe/ye. The history of the debate was very interesting to me. I had no idea how/when it started until reading his book. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinaPagnato Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Was the teaching from a set curriculum? There are some VBS teaching curricula that have a YE point of view as a result of the theme. Like archaeology and the Bible, etc. It would be very difficult to separate the YE pov from the rest of the teaching, so the volunteers are sort of stuck. I'm actually YE, but I don't worry about other Christians' povs on that issue. As a matter of fact, several years ago our church (decidedly YE) chose to reject a specific VBS curriculum that made a huge deal about the age of the earth and essentially denigrated anybody who would think otherwise. I was so pleased by their choice. I thought it showed a lot of Christian love and respect for brothers and sisters who see this relatively small issue differently. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Two of my kids are going to Catholic school next year and one to public highschool. The dominance of the YE theory in all our activities is one of the reasons for our exit from homeschooling. Sorry, OP, I get it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 There are a million things that could be taught to a group of 10-12 yo's. A million really important things that are often not tackled by parents or churches. This was a ministry. They were given a once in a lifetime opportunity to reach these kids for Christ and they blew it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Oh! I went to a Christian school where the entire first semester of biology was on why evolution was wrong. The second semester involved reproduction and why pre-marital sex and abortion was bad. I had a terrible biology education! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomeontheprairie Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Oh! I went to a Christian school where the entire first semester of biology was on why evolution was wrong. The second semester involved reproduction and why pre-marital sex and abortion was bad. I had a terrible biology education! ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomeontheprairie Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Two of my kids are going to Catholic school next year and one to public highschool. The dominance of the YE theory in all our activities is one of the reasons for our exit from homeschooling. Sorry, OP, I get it. I remember past threads talking about this. I didn't realize you'd made decisions on putting them back in school based on that.I'm Sorry. :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Did they not tell you the theme of the camp ahead of time? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomeontheprairie Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Did they not tell you the theme of the camp ahead of time? No. It's with or church and our sister churches. It has always been great biblical teaching put on by our leadership. It's always been a non-issue. In the future, I'll be more vigilant. honestly my concern is that we will be tackling this issue next school year. Does she believe me or them? does she discount everything they said based on what I teach? or discount everything I will be teaching, based on what they taught? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomeontheprairie Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Somehow I missed the venting thread... Just saw it. Should have posted there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Oh my goodness. My daughter would have been so frustrated. How useless. Of all the topics they could have covered. :( 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 This is not a debate. It is a vent. I'm an oe Christian. My daughter just came home from a 3 day camp our church puts on. All the teaching was on ye and.... I am so mad. Ye/oe Is NOT a salvation issue! It's not a discipleship issue. It's not a moral issue. Both Ye and oe can see the glory of Lord in nature and science. Don't make it about the age of the earth. I'm so angry! So angry! Possibly time for a new church community. -- ? Or, is YE a pet soapbox of the adults who organized the camp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I remember past threads talking about this. I didn't realize you'd made decisions on putting them back in school based on that.I'm Sorry. :-( It isn't the only factor but our lack of a place where we "fit" has been huge. I honestly should have put the kids in school years ago. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomeontheprairie Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Possibly time for a new church community. -- ? Or, is YE a pet soapbox of the adults who organized the camp? I don't want it to be. I seriously don't want this to be issue that divides Christians from worship. My church is amazing. I love my pastor. I know work in our church there is division on this topic, so it seldom comes up with others. My guess is it is a soap box of the teaching pastor from the other church. Sigh. He is also a really great guy who loves the Lord. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 (((hugs))) talk with your daughter. Ask her what they said. Ask her what she thinks about it. Tell her what you think about the subject. Explain the different views to her and that it's okay that not everyone is going to agree on it; this is why it's discussed so much. I was YE and exposed my children to both. My oldest is pretty hardcore evolutionist, but believes that that is how God did it. I'm coming around, but admit to the parts I struggle with. We have great conversations and we enjoy it. I learn a lot and I don't feel I failed in any way that he's gone much further to the other side of what I told him I believed when he was little. The fact is, he's using his brain, weighing things out, and deciding for himself...which is what I taught him to do. I didn't want brainless, "because mom and dad and pastor said so". I am however, the stepdaughter of a man that held to an evolutionary/creationist gap theory and I bought into YE hook, line, and sinker from church. Difference was, I was a bus kid and we didn't discuss it much (and the racist views that followed with gap theory warded me off from ever accepting it...so, yes, there ARE worse views). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplejackmama Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I'm trying to understand why this was even brought up at camp? Under what context? I just can't wrap my brain around *this* being a biblical topic being taught at camp. Summer camp. Weird. I'm sorry, hope everything else went good. (My son leaves next Monday for his first camp trip.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroe1 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 YE vs. OE is such a small issue to us that a church camp's teaching would not have bothered us one way or the other. But, I can certainly see why it is important to so many. I guess it is time to find a new camp. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyacinth Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 YE vs. OE is such a small issue to us that a church camp's teaching would not have bothered us one way or the other. But, I can certainly see why it is important to so many. I guess it is time to find a new camp. I think the fact that it's such a small issue to the OP is the point. It's a minor issue to her, but the camp chose to make it a major issue (as I understand it), thus potentially confusing the children and creating division where it isn't necessary. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomeontheprairie Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Update: I spoke to one of the leaders of the camp about this. According to them the speaker that talked about this spoke for 6 (non consecutive) hours. He only spoke about Ye for about 10-15 minutes, and even then only as a response to a direct question by another camper. It is still what my dd came home "learning". It was all she had talked about, but it didn't have the actual weight at the camp she led me to believe. I'm so relieved :-) I also realize I'm in a minority here and will have to learn to not be upset. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 How old is your child? My 13 year old is certainly old enough to discuss the different views and to choose her own view and has been for a number of years - at least since age 10. And even before that she knew there were different views even if we didn't use higher thinking skills when discussing it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomeontheprairie Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 How old is your child? My 13 year old is certainly old enough to discuss the different views and to choose her own view and has been for a number of years - at least since age 10. And even before that she knew there were different views even if we didn't use higher thinking skills when discussing it. She's 10. We've talked about the different views. I guess my real problem in this issue is they are polar opposites. I don't want her (or others) to discount the biblical teaching presented because of this. (I don't believe in ye, he does, so why would I believe the rest of what this crazy man is trying to say?) And she may never go down that logical road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 She's 10. We've talked about the different views. I guess my real problem in this issue is they are polar opposites. I don't want her (or others) to discount the biblical teaching presented because of this. (I don't believe in ye, he does, so why would I believe the rest of what this crazy man is trying to say?) And she may never go down that logical road. OK I do not get your thinking here at all. Many many Christians believe YE or OE and still agree on 90% of other doctrines in the church. Someone is not "crazy" for not sharing your view. I say this as an origins agnostic, so I have no dog in the fight either way. Honestly, if this is so important to you, then you need to choose a church based on this one point, I guess (though I think that is a mistake). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomeontheprairie Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 OK I do not get your thinking here at all. Many many Christians believe YE or OE and still agree on 90% of other doctrines in the church. Someone is not "crazy" for not sharing your view. I say this as an origins agnostic, so I have no dog in the fight either way. Honestly, if this is so important to you, then you need to choose a church based on this one point, I guess (though I think that is a mistake). I think you misunderstand me. I don't Ye people are crazy. Really, I don't. BUT I know many ye Christians that bash anything oe. And *I* am likely to discount other things they say when they spend so much time talking bad about those who believe in oe. In some places the ye/oe debate is strong enough that it prevents people from coming to Christ. This should not be! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I think you misunderstand me. I don't Ye people are crazy. Really, I don't. BUT I know many ye Christians that bash anything oe. And *I* am likely to discount other things they say when they spend so much time talking bad about those who believe in oe. In some places the ye/oe debate is strong enough that it prevents people from coming to Christ. This should not be! Oh, I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomeontheprairie Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Jean, fwiw, after talking with leadership, I'm not angry at all. I think the speaker respectfully answered a direct question. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Update: I spoke to one of the leaders of the camp about this. According to them the speaker that talked about this spoke for 6 (non consecutive) hours. He only spoke about Ye for about 10-15 minutes, and even then only as a response to a direct question by another camper. It is still what my dd came home "learning". It was all she had talked about, but it didn't have the actual weight at the camp she led me to believe. I'm so relieved :-) I also realize I'm in a minority here and will have to learn to not be upset. This is what I figured happened. Your daughter will hear many things that disagree with your perspective. I always just say, "Well, some people believe X and others believe Y. Here is why we come down on Y. However, know the appropriate X answers because that is what you will be expected to regurgitate in that environment." It just doesn't bother me at all. It is funny how kids will pick up on one tangential thing and to them, that is the the only thing that mattered. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Update: I spoke to one of the leaders of the camp about this. According to them the speaker that talked about this spoke for 6 (non consecutive) hours. He only spoke about Ye for about 10-15 minutes, and even then only as a response to a direct question by another camper. It is still what my dd came home "learning". It was all she had talked about, but it didn't have the actual weight at the camp she led me to believe. I'm so relieved :-) I also realize I'm in a minority here and will have to learn to not be upset. I'm glad it wasn't as central as you originally thought. It's funny how sometimes kids pick up on the minor stuff and it's the only part they remember. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El... Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I'm so glad you called to talk about it! I worry about this issue; our church is really YE, and we're not. I wonder how it might pop up as our kids grow up. I don't want the kids to experience isolation or judgment over this. Perhaps it won't be a problem at all! But I do worry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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