AmandaVT Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'm considering switching things up a bit next year and I've been reading such positive things about CLE here that I'm thinking about using it for grammar and spelling next year. However, I prefer secular curriculum in general. We're more UU type people, although I lean more liberal Christian - UCC. Is it a very Christian curriculum? Or is that more for the science piece? Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 It's pretty Christian, though, being Mennonite, in a slightly different way from Abeka or BJU or something. It's less about particular beliefs and more into obedience and having a cheerful countenance and such. My kids have trouble taking it seriously... Instead, I'd choose something secular. It looks like you'll have a second grader? I like Apples and Pears for spelling. Writing Skills A by Diana King (EPS) is a good workbook for writing mechanics. Easy Grammar is... not inspiring, but is easy to implement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajfries Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I, too, prefer secular curriculum; I'm usually not the "right kind" of Christian for religious curriculum. I just got the 200 LA series & I had a couple of eye roll moments looking through it, but so far there isn't anything that's overtly offensive? Offensive isn't the right term but... Some things I observed: "The material in this book is the product of the Lord's blessing and many individuals working together at Christian Light Publications." "Language is a gift from God. Every Christian teacher wants her students to become good communicators for the glory of God...The ultimate goal in teaching language arts is to enable the child to receive God's truth & communicate it to others, whether through the spoken or written word" (this is just in the teacher's manual) It looks like at one point "Jesus" is a spelling word. Penmenship practice: "I love Jesus. He loves me." "Joseph lived with some unkind people. But he still loved God." "Children, obey your parents. Ephesians 6:1" The word "kill" is also a spelling word at one point :) There's the story of Jesus & the lepers where you find the beginning sentence of a story. Some of the given sentences for spelling words are religious. For example for "truthful" the sentence is "God smiles on the truthful child." But the teacher could easily change that. All in all, I'd say religion is sprinkled throughout it, rather than drenching it. I see no mention of heathens or hellfire or any other "triggers" (for me). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Well, it's Amish/Mennonite, so yeah - pretty Christian. Even in the math book, there are Christian related word problems and stories beginning each light unit. We're Catholic. We use CLE for math (and some grammar). We do not mind the sweet little stories - because, honestly, CLE math and LA is just THAT good. Usually we do not use much, if any, protestant currcula... save CLE. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Very C and also very L. Bill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Very C and also very L. Bill Light? As in, academically? That's one complaint about the math and LA that I've sincerely never heard, save that many (myself included) add in more word problems. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Light? As in, academically? That's one complaint about the math and LA that I've sincerely never heard, save that many (myself included) add in more word problems. Yes. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 It's General Conference Mennonite in viewpoint (as opposed to old order Mennonite or Amish). So yes, it's quite Christian. However, GC Mennonite is one of the most tolerant, accepting, supportive denominations out there. So think lots of love and light and focus on sharing the same with others, helping others, and the love of Christ, not Fire and Brimstone and sinners are doomed stuff. It's a good, solid, traditional curriculum, and it's likely to be more acceptable to a UU/UCC viewpoint than many other Christian curricula-but it's not at all secular, nor would it be easy at all to secularize. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmandaVT Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Thank you for the helpful comments! I'm mostly wanting out of AAS again. I like it a lot, in theory. In practice, DS "gets" spelling quickly and I find myself either spending a lot of time on a lesson he instinctively understands or I skip through quickly and the curriculum is too expensive, in my opinion, to skip through so quickly. Similar issues with FLL, except the price point is much better. I think we were all dreaming about the definition of a darn noun at one point this year. I need to check out apples and pears since everyone seems to love it! Is it good for a natural speller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Thank you for the helpful comments! I'm mostly wanting out of AAS again. I like it a lot, in theory. In practice, DS "gets" spelling quickly and I find myself either spending a lot of time on a lesson he instinctively understands or I skip through quickly and the curriculum is too expensive, in my opinion, to skip through so quickly. Similar issues with FLL, except the price point is much better. I think we were all dreaming about the definition of a darn noun at one point this year. I need to check out apples and pears since everyone seems to love it! Is it good for a natural speller? I think it's fine for a natural speller. In fact, I would say that the spelling isn't "enough" for anyone BUT a natural speller. The shining star of their LA program is the grammar - not, imo, the spelling or composition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Thank you for the helpful comments! I'm mostly wanting out of AAS again. I like it a lot, in theory. In practice, DS "gets" spelling quickly and I find myself either spending a lot of time on a lesson he instinctively understands or I skip through quickly and the curriculum is too expensive, in my opinion, to skip through so quickly. Similar issues with FLL, except the price point is much better. I think we were all dreaming about the definition of a darn noun at one point this year. I need to check out apples and pears since everyone seems to love it! Is it good for a natural speller? CLE is just spelling words by list I believe. I wouldn't pick it if all you're looking for is simplified spelling, even aside from the secular aspect. It's just not known for its spelling. I love Apples and Pears, but it's very repetitive and meant for struggling spellers. I do use it with a child who isn't struggling, and it's fine with him, but I wouldn't have bought it for him. I purchased it for my struggling speller. How about Spelling Power for spelling? I haven't used CLE grammar (only math and reading to learn stuff). Based on those, I suspect there is a good amount of what you'd probably see as benign Christian content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyhwkmama Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I am a secular homeschooler. We use CLE math-it is VERY easy to secularize. I have sharpied out a couple of things, but most of the time any mention of God or religion is very benign (like the number of Bibles an counted objects in a story problem or optional pages on Bible Math using numbers from specific verse). I have looked at the LA. It has more religion, but I could almost use it. The reading is VERY religious. I don't think I could use the reading. The math is rigorous, but concrete, not out of the box conceptual like SIngapore math. I try to throw in some "thinking" story problems to get a balance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3andme Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Yes. Bill Bill - While I respect your experience and opinions on math in general, I beg to differ on your opinion that it is a "Light" math program. I have used all the levels from 100 - 700 as well as the new Algebra I with my sons and there is nothing light about it. It is complete and rigorous and offers a solid foundation in math. A review of the Scope and Sequence will indicate that it certainly covers all the standard topics. Does it offer the same level of challenging problems as AOPS or Singapore's CWP ? No, but that does not negate it's ability to provide a solid foundation. It's incremental approach (bite-size introduction of concepts) and mixed review system are actually more effectively aligned with cognitive research on the best ways to master material.than most other math programs including the aforementioned ones. It might be argued that it is not as overtly conceptual as some other curricula but in my opinion it does strive for conceptual understanding especially at the younger grade levels. It generally uses a visual model much like Singapore to move to conceptual understanding. The Light Units are written largely to the student and generally explain things well in an appropriate easily understandable framework for the age level. The Light Units stand well on their own but like any math program including Singapore, Math Mammoth or MEP, additional teaching may be needed to ensure the student really connects the concepts and applications.I have supplemented CLE on occasion but, in general, I have found it requires less teacher assistance than other programs I have tried. It may be more difficult to assess the conceptual presentation in this program because it is spread out over many lessons instead of being presented in one unit. I have personally compared the 3rd grade Singapore Math book with the CLE 3rd grade and I find the conceptual presentation very similar. No math program, including CLE, meets the needs of every math student. While more conceptual programs (like Singapore, Math Mammoth or Beast Academy) may be more appropriate or effective from some students, they do not not necessarily lead to conceptual understanding in all students or long term retention. A successful math program is one which leads a student to consistent, accurate and flexible math performance. While not perfect, I think CLE does a great job of balancing student independence/ease of presentation with solid math instruction and the mixed review provides an effective basis for long term retention. Just a little personal background to put things in perspective - I currently own, have reviewed or used Beast Academy, Singapore, MEP, Math Mammoth, Life of Fred, Russian Math and numerous secondary math texts. I jumped around quite a bit with my first ds. I really like math and while I did have a "traditional" math education, I never felt like I struggled with conceptual understanding and am often puzzled by discussions about some common conceptual issues posted here. Generally, I find my sons and I learn best by intuiting the conceptual elements from actually using the math not so much by extensive explicit presentations. My sons while math adept just like to get it done. I have tried to get them more interested in math and competitions but that's not where their interests lie. I have learned some new conceptual approaches from the many different math programs and try to interject it where appropriate but generally I feel it's of marginal value to my sons. In the end, we use CLE because my kids don't mind it, I like it and their math performance and understanding is strong. 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3andme Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Sorry for the slightly off topic discussion above. I am not religious and have used CLE's Reading, Math, Social Studies, and Language Arts - all to some degree. The Math is the least religious followed by Language Arts. The Reading and some of the Social Studies have a substantial amount of religious content. I have used these programs in spite of that because I have found the other benefits of CLE outweighed the occasional discussions about religious issues or eye rolls from my sons. I would concur with other posters, that the spelling is not sufficient for non-natural spellers in the Language Arts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 So Christian that their automated web site will not allow you to order on Sunday. So Christian that all knowledge is intended to be learned from a Biblical worldview. In other words - very, very Christian. They do have sample pages on their site. And this description: Is your goal for students to learn practical knowledge from a Biblical worldview? Do you wish them to be informed of the world around them and far away, and to develop a sympathetic understanding of other cultures and backgrounds? Do you want to foster a strong identity with Christian beliefs while imbibing the necessary requirements for a solid education? If so, you have found the right website to browse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 The Amish stuff is much more secular than the Mennonite stuff. Old Order churches believe that "schooling" which is only part of a child's "education" should be secular. They believe religion should be taught in home and church and NOT the school. The most conservative Amish use Strayer-Upton arithmetic and McGuffey's Readers. The more liberal Amish use Study Time Math and Climbing to Good English which might quote a hymn or focus on traits of character important to Christians, but I'm not sure if I've ever seen a single Jesus sentence. The Amish don't proselytize. I believe that proselytization is part of Christian Light Publishing's mission statement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparrowsNest Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Yes. Bill What do you think is lacking in CLE LA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 What do you think is lacking in CLE LA? Not familiar, was thinking of the math. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I love this topic title! Less C than ACE, more C than Hake. I don't find it overbearing and it doesn't evangelize (like ACE does). Mennonites don't believe in evangelizing to children. As a result the Christian content is more worldview related - sentences to diagram may include pastors or churches etc. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 The newer Sunrise 2nd editions of reading (up through 4th grade, which just came out) contain less religion in the light units than the old editions, aside from the daily Bible memorization. I think we will skip 4 stories (8 lessons) in the 4th grade this summer, two KJV stories, one about Anabaptists, and one about why God made someone sick. We only use CLE LA 100. I don't have problems using CLE Math, but it's supplemental to SM, and only in the early years for my DC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmandaVT Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Thank you everyone! I may order the first unit since it's pretty inexpensive to check it out. If I got CLE LA 200, I wouldn't need AAS 3 or FLL2 next year right? I'm planning on doing WWE 1 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I don't think you'd need any of AAS, WWE, or FLL for the 200s. CLE LA does include copywork for the lower grades. Narration can be done during read aloud time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 The first LightUnit for each math level (expect level 100) reviews the preivous level. We skip 201, 301, etc. With all other subjects, start with the first LU. CLE math has been a wonderful fit for my second de in particular. She has a really solid understanding and love of math after working through CLE 300 - 700. She's now working on 800. I do add explanations and manipulatives or other math resources (Math Mammoth) where I see they'd be beneficial, but CLE math does a beautiful job and does include conceptual and deeper understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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