Latin Frustration

[lea1]

I have been researching various Latin curricula for what seems like forever and still am not sure which way to go when we finish Getting Started with Latin, which we love.

 

My sons are approx. 9.5 years old (one is pencil phobic) and we are about half way through 4th grade.  

 

I am looking for a Latin curriculum that is:

 

      parts to whole, grammar approach

      has translation exercises (would be nice to have both Latin to English and English to Latin)

      has a CD or DVD for pronunciation help

      is Classical pronunciation.

 

 

We have tried Latin for Children but I did not like the DVD lessons because they chanted so fast it was hard to understand and keep up with them and I don't recall seeing translation practice.  I also have Lively Latin which I may need to look at again.  I also just purchased Latin Book One (which was described as "Henle lite" in a review on Paula's archives) from Amazon because it sounded pretty good but then I realized that we won't have any pronunciation help with it.  I am wondering if we could go straight to Henle but thinking it might be too much at this point (does it have classical pronunciation help?).

 

Any suggestions?

[JadeOrchidSong]

Lively Latin is wonderful as a follow up for GSWL. We are finishing up the last lesson in Lively Latin 2.

[aprilleigh]

Not a good choice for kids that young, but for older students I would recommend Wheelock - it has all of that (the pronunciation help is available free on the official Wheelock website). Some people find it a bit difficult to use, but if you the Grote guide as well it makes a huge difference.

[lea1]

I have only really looked at the first two units of Lively Latin but noticed that it did not have sentence translation.  Does it add sentence translation later in the course?

[lea1]

Not a good choice for kids that young, but for older students I would recommend Wheelock - it has all of that (the pronunciation help is available free on the official Wheelock website). Some people find it a bit difficult to use, but if you the Grote guide as well it makes a huge difference.

 

Do you know what people use before Wheelock?

 

I have been researching various Latin curricula for what seems like forever and still am not sure which way to go when we finish Getting Started with Latin, which we love.

 

My sons are approx. 9.5 years old (one is pencil phobic) and we are about half way through 4th grade.  

 

 

Any suggestions?

 

What are your goals?

[lea1]

What are your goals?

 

To be able to read Latin works in high school.  I am learning along with them and we have really been enjoying it (or at least I have:).  We really enjoy the translation exercises.  I guess they also need to be able to converse in it to be counted as a foreign language credit?

[JadeOrchidSong]

I have only really looked at the first two units of Lively Latin but noticed that it did not have sentence translation. Does it add sentence translation later in the course?

It has sentence translation and paragraph translation a little later. Lively Latin 2 has whole pages of long translation. The last half has 1.5 pages.

I think we will go on to Weelock's after Lively Latin 2. My boys have been studying Latin slowing for more than4 years now.

Weelock's would be too difficult for young students.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Not a good choice for kids that young, but for older students I would recommend Wheelock - it has all of that (the pronunciation help is available free on the official Wheelock website). Some people find it a bit difficult to use, but if you the Grote guide as well it makes a huge difference.

What I'd GrotE Guide?

[Targhee]

I am looking for a Latin curriculum that is:

 

parts to whole, grammar approach

has translation exercises (would be nice to have both Latin to English and English to Latin)

has a CD or DVD for pronunciation help

is Classical pronunciation.

 

Any suggestions?

Latin Prep, from Galore Park. Start with book 1, which has everything you asked for above (CD yes, DVD no) and you can purchase used at places like Amazon marketplace or new from the Rays Horrible Books website. Just remember that it is expected that the kids memorize the paradigms as you go (vocal too), even though it may not say to do so explicitly in the student book.

 

You could take Henle 1 slowly, but I don't know if any classical pronunciation resources. Best Wishes!

[lea1]

It has sentence translation and paragraph translation a little later. Lively Latin 2 has whole pages of long translation. The last half has 1.5 pages.

I think we will go on to Weelock's after Lively Latin 2. My boys have been studying Latin slowing for more than4 years now.

Weelock's would be too difficult for young students.

 

Do you know how far into Lively Latin 1 you have to get before they start sentence translation?

[Targhee]

What I'd GrotE Guide?

Grote's book A Comprehensive Guide to Wheelock's Latin

[forty-two]

What I'd GrotE Guide?

 

Dale Grote is a Latin professor who wrote a guide to provide (iirc) more explicit English grammar help for working through Wheelock's. His first version was what he put together for his classes and is freely available on the web in several places; here's a link: http://www.warmenhoven.org/latin/grote/ . Later he revised it and turned it into a book; here's the link for that: http://www.amazon.com/Dale-A.-Grote/e/B001KIJ9TE/ref=dp_byline_cont_pop_book_1 (there seem to be three editions, none of which are in print atm, but they are available used on amazon).

[StartingOver]

We did GSWL then Lively Latin 1 & 2, and now we are doing Latin Prep. So very happy with all three and the progress my kids have made.

[Reefgazer]

I was looking for the same thing you are when DD and I began our Latin journey, except I also felt I needed a video teacher because I didn't know Latin.  I finally gave up on finding all that in one package and went with Memoria Press (so I abandoned the classical pronunciation requirement).  I am more than thrilled with that program and the results we've gotten and recommend it to anyone.

[lea1]

We did GSWL then Lively Latin 1 & 2, and now we are doing Latin Prep. So very happy with all three and the progress my kids have made.

 

Latin Prep was one I was considering.  Do you think I could go from GSWL to LP with 9.5 year olds?

[lea1]

I noticed that Henle Latin 1 starts with 5th graders so that might work if there is pronunciation help.  Does anyone know if that exists?

[8filltheheart]

Do you know what people use before Wheelock?

 

 

You don't have to use anything before Wheelock's if you just wait until they are a bit older.  Most 7th graders should be able to work their way through Wheelock's over the course of 3 yrs.  That means completing all grammar in 9th grade and the rest of high school for reading Latin.

 

If you want to start earlier, you could use something like LP for 5th or 6th and move into Wheelock's in 7th.

[KrissiK]

Two words.... Memoria Press! IMO, they are the best.

[RootAnn]

Had you thought to continue with Linney's Latin Class? The author of GSWL has free audio up to help. It won't last you forever and you'll be back in this spot eventually. But it seems like a good next step.

 

BTW, Memoria Press does offer classical pronunciation CDs (but not DVDs) for their products. Unfortunately, the Forms series is very writing intensive as written. You could modify it - using the TM & workbook key to do most of the work orally & the translations on a white board. They also don't have a ton of translation exercises -- some, but not oodles.

[Halcyon]

Henle, without question. We have tried many Latin curricula, and my oldest (and now my youngest) had the best success at the stage you are at with Henle. We did a year of Lively Latin with younger and it was a mistake--I wish we had started with Henle at 8 and just moved very slowly. We began Henle (with him) a couple of months ago and he has learned more in that time than in all the time with LL--something about the way it is approached. I can't quite put my finger on it, though. Older is now breezing through Wheelocks (although I am quite sure he will hit a large nearly-impregnable wall by Chapter 15 or so) because of the skills and content he learned with Henle.

 

Here's the pronunciation DVD that we use: http://www.amazon.com/Henle-Latin-1-Pronunciation-CD/dp/B001F37V8K/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1433028100&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=henle+latin+dvd

[StartingOver]

Latin Prep was one I was considering.  Do you think I could go from GSWL to LP with 9.5 year olds?

Latin Prep has slowed my son down a lot. He is almost 9, and finished First Language Lessons 4. It is harder than Lively Latin for sure. But could be a step from GSWL, and does have translation consistently from the start. You would have to work beside him, no doubt about that.

[lea1]

Henle, without question. We have tried many Latin curricula, and my oldest (and now my youngest) had the best success at the stage you are at with Henle. We did a year of Lively Latin with younger and it was a mistake--I wish we had started with Henle at 8 and just moved very slowly. We began Henle (with him) a couple of months ago and he has learned more in that time than in all the time with LL--something about the way it is approached. I can't quite put my finger on it, though. Older is now breezing through Wheelocks (although I am quite sure he will hit a large nearly-impregnable wall by Chapter 15 or so) because of the skills and content he learned with Henle.

 

Here's the pronunciation DVD that we use: http://www.amazon.com/Henle-Latin-1-Pronunciation-CD/dp/B001F37V8K/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1433028100&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=henle+latin+dvd

 

I was just about sold on this until I saw that the pronunciation DVD is for ecclesiastical rather than classical. Do you know if anyone sells a classical pronunciation CD or DVD (or even on-line files) with classical pronunciation for Henle Latin 1?

 

[lea1]

Latin Prep has slowed my son down a lot. He is almost 9, and finished First Language Lessons 4. It is harder than Lively Latin for sure. But could be a step from GSWL, and does have translation consistently from the start. You would have to work beside him, no doubt about that.

 

OK, thanks for the feedback and setting expectations.  I am planning to work with them and learn it alongside of them and we will likely take it very slowly at first.  I was all set to order this until I saw that Henle has a pronunciation DVD but then realized it is ecclesiastical pronunciation and I would rather have classical, so I think I am back to Latin Prep as our best option.

 

What parts of Latin Prep do you guys use? (text, workbooks, answer book, pronunciation CD?)

[matrips]

I've been looking ever since we finished GSWL, and the only one that I like, and my kids as well, is Cambridge. We enjoyed the translating in GSWL and Cambridge appears to have quite a bit of it. Only downside for me is that its online and I prefer paper, but my kids seem to like the computer. We've only done the free samples so far and planning to start in the fall.

 

I'm not sure if it's parts to whole though. It's just the one that seemed most like GSWL to us so I thought I'd reply.

[lea1]

I've been looking ever since we finished GSWL, and the only one that I like, and my kids as well, is Cambridge. We enjoyed the translating in GSWL and Cambridge appears to have quite a bit of it. Only downside for me is that its online and I prefer paper, but my kids seem to like the computer. We've only done the free samples so far and planning to start in the fall.

 

I'm not sure if it's parts to whole though. It's just the one that seemed most like GSWL to us so I thought I'd reply.

 

Thanks for posting.  I have not looked at Cambridge because I was thinking it was whole to parts but I will check it out.  I may be missing something good:).  Thanks!

[lea1]

Had you thought to continue with Linney's Latin Class? The author of GSWL has free audio up to help. It won't last you forever and you'll be back in this spot eventually. But it seems like a good next step.

 

BTW, Memoria Press does offer classical pronunciation CDs (but not DVDs) for their products. Unfortunately, the Forms series is very writing intensive as written. You could modify it - using the TM & workbook key to do most of the work orally & the translations on a white board. They also don't have a ton of translation exercises -- some, but not oodles.

 

Actually I had not looked at Linney's Latin Class so thanks for bringing it to my attention.  I looked at it and I think I would rather try to go with something that we can stick with for a while.

 

When we first started Latin, we started with Prima Latina and didn't much care for it.  So I ruled out Memoria Press early on but thanks for the suggestion.

 

[lea1]

Two words.... Memoria Press! IMO, they are the best.

 

We tried them early on and didn't much care for them but thanks for the suggestion.

 

[lea1]

If you want to start earlier, you could use something like LP for 5th or 6th and move into Wheelock's in 7th.

I think this may be the direction we are headed.  Thanks for the suggestions.

[StartingOver]

OK, thanks for the feedback and setting expectations. I am planning to work with them and learn it alongside of them and we will likely take it very slowly at first. I was all set to order this until I saw that Henle has a pronunciation DVD but then realized it is ecclesiastical pronunciation and I would rather have classical, so I think I am back to Latin Prep as our best option.

 

What parts of Latin Prep do you guys use? (text, workbooks, answer book, pronunciation CD?)

I purchased all the books and answer keys with audio CD. Then went back and ordered the workbooks as my son needed more practice. Instead of flash cards we use quizlet.

[lea1]

I purchased all the books and answer keys with audio CD. Then went back and ordered the workbooks as my son needed more practice. Instead of flash cards we use quizlet.

 

Thanks Jana, I appreciate your help.  So, the text book, the work book the answer key and the audio CD.  I will make my own flash cards, if we need them.  We make our own now and play a round of the memory game several times a week to stay fresh on our vocabulary.

[StartingOver]

Your Welcome ! I just spent the last couple of weeks putting a ton of Latin in Quizlet. The kids like it as they play games. We also listen to the audio till they know the pronunciations, then just have a memory sheet to read from.

 

[lea1]

Your Welcome ! I just spent the last couple of weeks putting a ton of Latin in Quizlet. The kids like it as they play games. We also listen to the audio till they know the pronunciations, then just have a memory sheet to read from.

 

Checking out Quizlet now, thanks!  (p.s. I still miss your blog:)

[StartingOver]

Yeah, I wish I had the time to keep up with it.

[lea1]

Yeah, I wish I had the time to keep up with it.

 

I totally understand.  I stopped updating mine also.  Just not enough time in the day to get it all done.

[Targhee]

Latin Prep was one I was considering. Do you think I could go from GSWL to LP with 9.5 year olds?

Yes, though you might take it slowly. Maybe consider adding the workbook as you work the first book over 12 months? My dd would do a chapter in the text and then the workbook section for that chapter. We didn't use the CD. I added in some random delcension and conjugation quiz I found online to help her memorize the paradigms.

[lea1]

Yes, though you might take it slowly. Maybe consider adding the workbook as you work the first book over 12 months? My dd would do a chapter in the text and then the workbook section for that chapter. We didn't use the CD. I added in some random delcension and conjugation quiz I found online to help her memorize the paradigms.

 

Thanks, this sounds like good advice.  I ordered the workbook. 

 

[kloumc]

For what you are looking for I would highly recommend The Great Latin Adventure by Katharine Birkett. www.classicallegacypress.com I think it has all that you are looking for: classical pronunciation, parts to whole, and LOTS of great translation from Latin to English AND English to Latin. I think it is so important to do the English to Latin to really ground the new concepts and solidify their skills.

 

Another huge bonus to GLA is the derivative work found in the lessons. It is really quite spectacular how much effort the author put into coming up with rich and edifying sentences for which the students are to insert their new derivative words. This is a great vocabulary-building component.

 

I used this for all three of my students for the grammar years and this prepared us well to go to a higher level of Latin material. The materials are written for the parent who has had no prior Latin experience and are very easy to follow.

[Zoo Keeper]

For what you are looking for I would highly recommend The Great Latin Adventure by Katharine Birkett. www.classicallegacypress.com I think it has all that you are looking for: classical pronunciation, parts to whole, and LOTS of great translation from Latin to English AND English to Latin. I think it is so important to do the English to Latin to really ground the new concepts and solidify their skills.

 

Another huge bonus to GLA is the derivative work found in the lessons. It is really quite spectacular how much effort the author put into coming up with rich and edifying sentences for which the students are to insert their new derivative words. This is a great vocabulary-building component.

 

I used this for all three of my students for the grammar years and this prepared us well to go to a higher level of Latin material. The materials are written for the parent who has had no prior Latin experience and are very easy to follow.

  ^ This review is spot on: GLA is very well done.

 

if I already didn't have GSWL,  LfC A and B, Latin Book One, and Latin Prep I on the shelf, :cool:  I would go with GLA after GSWL. 

 

LfC--my kids love it.  They like Dr. Perrin, love the videos, and the chants make memorizing all the vocab and forms easy.  There IS translation work - little bits in the workbooks, but the Latin Reader (Libellus de Historia) is where the bulk of the translation work is. You have to add in the reader about halfway through the first book. 

 

Latin Book One-- I really like it.  I think the reading and translation exercises (Latin to English and English to Latin)  are its strength; the kids are using (and therefore memorizing)  the forms in context, which is very effective. One of my boys admitted that even though he likes LfC better, LBO makes him understand Latin better because he is using it.   I believe there are audio files for LBO on the Yahoo group (or there used to be, I haven't been there in years...)  

 

If you haven't finished GSWL yet, you could always go back to beginning of the book and flip the exercises (  do English to Latin) for more practice.  I did this for one of my boys who thought he already knew everything in GSWL.  :001_tt2:  

[SnMomof7]

I was just about sold on this until I saw that the pronunciation DVD is for ecclesiastical rather than classical. Do you know if anyone sells a classical pronunciation CD or DVD (or even on-line files) with classical pronunciation for Henle Latin 1?

 

http://magistrajones.blogspot.ca/?m=1

 

Classical Henle audio download.