Speaking of Identity Theft

[EmseB]

Please don't quote.

 

Wondering what you all would do in this situation.

 

We use our credit card for all purchases and pay it off every month as a way to earn perks.  We moved to a new town last summer, and in the last three-ish months our credit card information has been stolen three times.  Our bank has caught it every single time and called to alert us that it's been used fraudulently and sent us new cards.  The problem is that this disrupts pretty much every thing we pay for automatically (we have to update the card number with every automatic bill pay thingy we use), and it means that my primary method of paying for groceries, etc is out of commission while we wait for the new cards to arrive.  Not to mention the obvious worry about identity theft and such.

 

Do we report this to the police? My husband is skeptical that will do any good.  I feel like there's such a limited number of places that we shop or go that we'd be an ideal candidate for figuring out where our number is getting stolen.  I just don't know that the local police do that kind of investigative work.  But I don't even really know how to know where it's getting stolen.  I don't know what the lag time is from using it someplace and then having it be used by a criminal.  We have a couple of ideas, but can't pin anything down.

 

As an aside, are Amex cards more prone to fraudsters?  Easier to skim the information?

 

I'm glad our bank is so on the ball and we haven't suffered any real financial consequences, but I'm so frustrated that this keeps happening and it feels like there's nothing I can do.

[kroe1]

Yes, report to the police.

 

Have you checked your computer for viruses/malware?

 

Our town recently caught a group of waiters working out of multiple restaurants.

 

DH had his stolen by a clerk in a government agency.

 

Change everywhere you shop when the new card arrives. That will help the police.

[Miss Mousie]

Is there a downside to calling your local PD and asking them?  :confused1:   Worst they can do is say "no, we don't handle that," right?

 

[Wildcat]

While it couldn't hurt to check with your local PD, a police report will be of no use for this UNLESS you think someone in a local restaurant is writing the number down when they take the card away to swipe it. It has happened.

 

Do you use your card for internet purchases? That is usually where our card is compromised. It's a bit obvious since the fraudulent charges are usually for overseas software stuff. Gas stations are also bad for having skimmers on them. I recently read an article by some security person who said to never swipe any card at the pump and to always go to the window to pay. Florida is the worst state for this, apparently.

 

After having our card replaced several times over the years (including three times in one year!), our thoughts are that there is no preventing it, but there are ways to make getting a new card less of a headache. We have our recurring charges go to a different credit card and use the 'daily' card that is with a different bank (i.e. Bank of America and Chase, just to toss out a few names at random). The recurring charge card has never been hacked. Coincidence, maybe, but that system has worked for us, and it tells us that our card is being compromised elsewhere. We don't eat out at places where our card leaves our hands, so that isn't the problem.

 

There was recently a story out of Canada where one poor guy's card was hacked even before he physically received it. Turns out, hackers had cracked the software that generated the new numbers and were just using those.

 

Honestly, this is a huge problem and banks are used to it. It does not reflect negatively on your credit report to have a card replaced due to fraud. It's just a pain. You are not liable for fraudulent charges, so you can breathe easier if that has been weighing on you. Honestly, there is nothing you can do to stop it. It feels horribly invasive, though, doesn't it?

 

 

[Tess in the Burbs]

well, I had my debit card taken recently....and the credit card I used while waiting for my new debit card was stolen as well.  The card readers are really good now. They can be 30 feet from you.  They can then put it on any card with a magnetic stripe...like a hotel room key.  Seriously.  So for my situation I looked at where I had shopped the 3 days prior to my debit card stolen AND where I shopped with the credit card.  I had 2 of the same places.  I haven't been back to either one.  Yes, it disrupted my grocery shopping.  I will only go into that store if I have a gift card.  I  also have my cards wrapped in aluminum foil until I can purchase a wallet that will keep thieves from stealing my card info.  

 

I did report to police.  They had video at the stores of my card # being used.  My bank requires an investigation.  Every time.  So I do call the police every time it happens.  

 

Good luck.  Get a better protecting wallet.  And consider not shopping at the places it keeps being stolen.  

[Reefgazer]

I would report it; there is no downside that I can see and the fraudsters just may get caught. 

 

We're in the same boat you are; credit card company catches it and calls us to verify we made the purchase, and then cancels the card if we didn't.  It's a huge pain to update everything.  We've pretty much narrowed the fraud down to our local Justice store.

[EmseB]

First off, thanks for your thoughts, everyone!

 

 

While it couldn't hurt to check with your local PD, a police report will be of no use for this UNLESS you think someone in a local restaurant is writing the number down when they take the card away to swipe it. It has happened.

 

Do you use your card for internet purchases? That is usually where our card is compromised. It's a bit obvious since the fraudulent charges are usually for overseas software stuff. Gas stations are also bad for having skimmers on them. I recently read an article by some security person who said to never swipe any card at the pump and to always go to the window to pay. Florida is the worst state for this, apparently.

 

After having our card replaced several times over the years (including three times in one year!), our thoughts are that there is no preventing it, but there are ways to make getting a new card less of a headache. We have our recurring charges go to a different credit card and use the 'daily' card that is with a different bank (i.e. Bank of America and Chase, just to toss out a few names at random). The recurring charge card has never been hacked. Coincidence, maybe, but that system has worked for us, and it tells us that our card is being compromised elsewhere. We don't eat out at places where our card leaves our hands, so that isn't the problem.

 

There was recently a story out of Canada where one poor guy's card was hacked even before he physically received it. Turns out, hackers had cracked the software that generated the new numbers and were just using those.

 

Honestly, this is a huge problem and banks are used to it. It does not reflect negatively on your credit report to have a card replaced due to fraud. It's just a pain. You are not liable for fraudulent charges, so you can breathe easier if that has been weighing on you. Honestly, there is nothing you can do to stop it. It feels horribly invasive, though, doesn't it?

 

I do suspect it's local, but I also don't know how helpful that is because it's not like they can go busting down doors based on my hunch, you know?  There are at least two local places that it could be.  I called to file a report anyway and an officer is supposed to call me back to take it.

 

As for shopping habits, they are pretty basic.  Grocery store, Target, Amazon, Costco.  I can't really alter that many of them because there aren't many alternatives available that we can afford.  For example, I shop at the commissary for groceries and changing that would increase our grocery budget by A LOT.  I appreciate everyone's advice to shop at different places, but I sort of feel trapped in that regard.  If I knew that it was one certain place, I would certainly stop going there, but I can't just stop shopping everywhere because I'm mostly purchasing necessaries for the household.

 

I like your idea of doing the recurring charges on a separate card, or maybe just going back to the auto bill pay where the bank sends a check.  I'm also tempted to start using cash for awhile and having DH try our new card at just one place at a time to pinpoint the problem.  Then again, I don't like carrying a ton of cash on me, either.  Any option seems really inconvenient.

 

It does feel invasive and just incredibly annoying.

[EmseB]

I just got off the phone with the police and they basically wrote me off.  I got the impression the officer didn't want to do the paperwork, but also that unless I know where it was stolen specifically then there's not much for them to investigate.  If we can narrow it down as to where it's happening, I may take that information to the police later.

 

All of this has made me wonder why we don't require a pin for credit card transactions, but we do for debit cards.  I think chip cards are coming soon, but I wonder why we don't require chip and pin like they do overseas.

[Um_2_4]

I keep my cards in a special case (it's aluminum I think). And I would do the same thing in that have 1 card for online recurring payments and 1 for day to day use. I know to max rewards you kind of need to use the same card. But maybe you could use DH's number for the online stuff and your card # when out and about??

I wonder if your CC has that offer for "virtual" numbers to hide your real card #? It wouldn't help in stores but might for online purchase. Not sure if they can be used for recurring payments or only once though.

And I would report it. If the local police are not interested, then county level maybe???

[kroe1]

I just got off the phone with the police and they basically wrote me off. I got the impression the officer didn't want to do the paperwork, but also that unless I know where it was stolen specifically then there's not much for them to investigate. If we can narrow it down as to where it's happening, I may take that information to the police later.

 

All of this has made me wonder why we don't require a pin for credit card transactions, but we do for debit cards. I think chip cards are coming soon, but I wonder why we don't require chip and pin like they do overseas.

Many times police officers do not want to do the paperwork. They have way too much required of them. But, calmly demand they do their job. This may escalate far beyond a credit card or two, and you do not want to appear lackadaisical because you do not have a police report. In addition, any losses for tax purposes require a police report, I believe, but do not quote me on that. Finally, if enough people suddenly report, the police will investigate. That is how they captured the waiters in our town.

[AmyontheFarm]

In Canada we have that chip card.  You don't want it.

 

If my card gets stolen from my wallet, the person who has it can purchase quiet a bit without having my 4 digit code, why?  Because of tap and pay.

 

That chip allows your card to just be tapped and the purchase goes through, no questions asked.  Most stores have a limit like under $40.  But many do not. I was trying to show my child that large purchases would go through and unfortunately, I was able to tap at a mall store and a $100 charge went through!  I complained to the store stating that it should be lower and their response was the credit card would refund me if it was stolen. 

 

You can not deactivate the chip, which is what I wanted.  We finally have two cards so one will be used just for online and the other for groceries etc.

[Annie G]

In Canada we have that chip card.  You don't want it.

 

If my card gets stolen from my wallet, the person who has it can purchase quiet a bit without having my 4 digit code, why?  Because of tap and pay.

 

That chip allows your card to just be tapped and the purchase goes through, no questions asked.  Most stores have a limit like under $40.  But many do not. I was trying to show my child that large purchases would go through and unfortunately, I was able to tap at a mall store and a $100 charge went through!  I complained to the store stating that it should be lower and their response was the credit card would refund me if it was stolen. 

 

You can not deactivate the chip, which is what I wanted.  We finally have two cards so one will be used just for online and the other for groceries etc.

 

Many of the stores here don't require a signature if the purchase is under $50 and I recently have noticed that limit is higher at several stores.  This is using regular credit cards. I have a new chip card but this has been going on here for several years so I'm not sure what you're seeing is specific to chip cards.  Well, at least not in my area of the US.  It used to be that one way to prevent unauthorized use was instead of signing the card to write SEE ID in that spot and have the retailer verify the ID matched the name on the card. But with retailers bypassing the signing step, that level of protection is now gone.  And I'm seeing it with the chip cards- though the card stays in the reader during the transaction, no PIN is requested and no signature is requested. So that doesn't leave me feeling that the card is any more secure than our old cards. 

 

Maybe this will change beginning in October when the EMV liability shift begins. Retailers will only change when it starts to hurt them financially. 

[EmseB]

Many of the stores here don't require a signature if the purchase is under $50 and I recently have noticed that limit is higher at several stores.  This is using regular credit cards. I have a new chip card but this has been going on here for several years so I'm not sure what you're seeing is specific to chip cards.  Well, at least not in my area of the US.  It used to be that one way to prevent unauthorized use was instead of signing the card to write SEE ID in that spot and have the retailer verify the ID matched the name on the card. But with retailers bypassing the signing step, that level of protection is now gone.  And I'm seeing it with the chip cards- though the card stays in the reader during the transaction, no PIN is requested and no signature is requested. So that doesn't leave me feeling that the card is any more secure than our old cards. 

 

Maybe this will change beginning in October when the EMV liability shift begins. Retailers will only change when it starts to hurt them financially. 

 

DH and I looked into the switch to chip cards when all this first happened, thinking that if we could at least hold out until then it would solve some of our problems, but after we read up a lot on the chip cards it doesn't seem like it will really solve anything.

 

I do think that the bolded will really make retailers more security conscience, checking signatures or at least ID.  Right now, what do they care if it's just the bank that is out the money?

 

I do wonder if it will change things negatively for consumers.  Now, I just call the bank/company where I have my credit card and have them remove the charges.  When liability shifts, will they tell me I'm out of luck and have to take it up with each individual retailer?  This last episode showed charges made for London Underground tickets.  I don't even want to think of the nightmare of trying to call someone like that to get fraudulent charges reversed.

[AmyontheFarm]

When I shop in Michigan, some stores will require me to show photo id when using a credit card, but in Canada they NEVER ask.  I actually wrote "Ask for ID to be shown" on the back of my personal business credit card and again, they never even look at the signature.  Someone could take my card and cause some damage pretty quick.  Truthfully, I'm starting to understand more and more my husband's preference to using cash.

[Wildcat]

I also have "please see ID" written on the backs of my cards--- only ONE place ever asks to see my ID. I hate that.

 

DH and I looked into the switch to chip cards when all this first happened, thinking that if we could at least hold out until then it would solve some of our problems, but after we read up a lot on the chip cards it doesn't seem like it will really solve anything.

I do think that the bolded will really make retailers more security conscience, checking signatures or at least ID.  Right now, what do they care if it's just the bank that is out the money?

 

I do wonder if it will change things negatively for consumers.  Now, I just call the bank/company where I have my credit card and have them remove the charges.  When liability shifts, will they tell me I'm out of luck and have to take it up with each individual retailer?  This last episode showed charges made for London Underground tickets.  I don't even want to think of the nightmare of trying to call someone like that to get fraudulent charges reversed.

 

Our bank (the one where we have the card that keeps getting hacked) doesn't even remove charges anymore; they just close the account outright and issue a new card any time there is a disputed charge.

 

JodiSue, the fact that you had charges for London Underground tickets tells me your card was compromised either online or remotely at a POS retailer....those are exactly the sorts of charges the hackers in Russia, Nigeria, etc, make charges for. I'm not saying the other issues you have had weren't local, but those international charges usually stem from a big, multi-card hack. The local rings usually order software and such here in the states---things they can download.

 

I'm not an expert by any means, but I read a lot about it. I also think that until the retailers are held to a higher standard for asking for ID for purchases, nothing will change. A store near me doesn't check ID for anything (well, I have charged $400 before, so maybe they ask at around $500), and only asks for an electronic siggy for purchases over $100. It is baffling. It is our banks who are eating the cost of all of this fraud. I used to be happy when I would get a call about possible fraud, thinking "What great service! They really care about me!", but in reality, THEY eat the cost, so they are looking to reduce their losses (and rightly so).
 

I just don't see liability shifting back to the consumer. If it does, there will be a HUGE outcry, and I know that we will be cutting up our cards, as I refuse to do business that way. If it means I can't buy/rent/do things, then so be it. Unless/until companies make every effort to protect their systems, no way will I accept that sort of liability.

 

Interestingly, I had a conversation today about this very thing and the other ladies and I realized we have been writing more and more checks lately for various reasons. Interesting.

 

Oh, as for the chip cards, the ones here in the states are going to be different somehow than the ones in Canada and Eurpoe. I can't remember how as I don't yet understand the technology and acronyms, but they are different to **allow for internet orders**. That's a huge vulnerability. Several large chains in my area have the new readers, but aren't set up for the chipped cards yet, so people still have to swipe. How stupid.

 

I'll end my post with this.... I was in line behind a couple of ladies last week (in their mid-60s, I would guess) and they were talking about the chipped cards. One lady said she actually had one pulled it out and said it was too think to fit in the slot in her wallet so she PRIED IT OUT to make it fit. The other lady said "good idea!" SMH!! I suspect it is going to take a while for the chipped cards to catch on here in the states.

[Wildcat]

When I shop in Michigan, some stores will require me to show photo id when using a credit card, but in Canada they NEVER ask.  I actually wrote "Ask for ID to be shown" on the back of my personal business credit card and again, they never even look at the signature.  Someone could take my card and cause some damage pretty quick.  Truthfully, I'm starting to understand more and more my husband's preference to using cash.

 

I find I am writing more checks than in recent years. Whenever I write a check, I am ALWAYS asked for ID, phone numbers, etc, etc, yet I can take a piece of plastic out of my wallet and swipe it without a single glance from the cashier.

[Kiara.I]

 

Oh, as for the chip cards, the ones here in the states are going to be different somehow than the ones in Canada and Eurpoe. I can't remember how as I don't yet understand the technology and acronyms, but they are different to **allow for internet orders**. That's a huge vulnerability. Several large chains in my area have the new readers, but aren't set up for the chipped cards yet, so people still have to swipe. How stupid.

 

I use my chip card for internet ordering all the time.  I live in Canada.  Was the suggestion that we couldn't use chip cards for purchasing online?

[Reefgazer]

What is EMV liability shift?

Many of the stores here don't require a signature if the purchase is under $50 and I recently have noticed that limit is higher at several stores. This is using regular credit cards. I have a new chip card but this has been going on here for several years so I'm not sure what you're seeing is specific to chip cards. Well, at least not in my area of the US. It used to be that one way to prevent unauthorized use was instead of signing the card to write SEE ID in that spot and have the retailer verify the ID matched the name on the card. But with retailers bypassing the signing step, that level of protection is now gone. And I'm seeing it with the chip cards- though the card stays in the reader during the transaction, no PIN is requested and no signature is requested. So that doesn't leave me feeling that the card is any more secure than our old cards.

 

Maybe this will change beginning in October when the EMV liability shift begins. Retailers will only change when it starts to hurt them financially.

[Annie G]

What is EMV liability shift?

 

Currently when a card has unauthorized charges, the card issuer is the one who takes the hit. Beginning in October, there should be a shift which revolves around replacing the technology with chip cards and the dip style readers instead of swipe readers.  So by the end of the year, if a card has bogus charges and the merchant where it was used hasn't upgraded to the new dip terminal, the merchant is responsible. If the card was not a chip card, the issuer is liable.  What I can't figure out is what happens when they have both upgraded-- I read the issuer will be liable except in some cases. So I'm not sure how that's really going to play out.  The US has lagged behind Europe in adopting the chip cards because the US merchants balked about the cost of the new terminals for the cards. So they're kind of forcing them to get them now. 

 

Our Walmart has the new dip reader and the card stays in it until the transaction is complete- but so far I've never had to sign for a chip purchase, and my card is a chip-and-sign vs. a chip-and-PIN.  I have a PIN but it's for cash withdrawals and not purchases.  Anyway....so far the biggest issue our Walmart has had is that tons of people are forgetting to take their card because it stays in the reader until the transaction is done and it's mounted in a weird place so it's super easy to forget if you're distracted by kids or something. 

[NorthwestMom]

well, I had my debit card taken recently....and the credit card I used while waiting for my new debit card was stolen as well.  The card readers are really good now. They can be 30 feet from you.  They can then put it on any card with a magnetic stripe...like a hotel room key.  Seriously.  So for my situation I looked at where I had shopped the 3 days prior to my debit card stolen AND where I shopped with the credit card.  I had 2 of the same places.  I haven't been back to either one.  Yes, it disrupted my grocery shopping.  I will only go into that store if I have a gift card.  I  also have my cards wrapped in aluminum foil until I can purchase a wallet that will keep thieves from stealing my card info.  

 

I did report to police.  They had video at the stores of my card # being used.  My bank requires an investigation.  Every time.  So I do call the police every time it happens.  

 

Good luck.  Get a better protecting wallet.  And consider not shopping at the places it keeps being stolen.  

 

What store is this?

[Wildcat]

I use my chip card for internet ordering all the time.  I live in Canada.  Was the suggestion that we couldn't use chip cards for purchasing online?

 

I really wish I understood the article better (heck, I wish I could FIND it so I could share it, but I read it quite a while back). It was like reading Greek. It had something to do with needing a PIN vs not needing one, and that if all purchases required a PIN, then online ordering wouldn't be allowed because the PIN could be intercepted the same way the three-digit code can be intercepted in a hack. Because the majority of CC fraud is done online, making all cards with chips and not needing the PIN would be a moot point. There were lots of acronyms and terms I just didn't understand, but IIRC, that was the gist of it. It just didn't seem to make sense to me.

 

I know chipped cards have been used online in Canada and Europe for years without issue, so I wonder if it isn't more of the US being waaaayyy behind the times on this. Maybe it's fearmongering? I just don't know.

 

What store is this?

 

I wonder if what happened wasn't that a criminal (maybe even an employee?) got hold of a reader and was just zapping cards from a distance. It would be strange for it to be happening in just a single store. Apparently, anyone can just order those readers, which is why it's prudent to put your cards (and passports!!) in protective holders, or at least wrap them in foil.

[Wildcat]

Our Walmart has the new dip reader and the card stays in it until the transaction is complete- but so far I've never had to sign for a chip purchase, and my card is a chip-and-sign vs. a chip-and-PIN.  I have a PIN but it's for cash withdrawals and not purchases.  Anyway....so far the biggest issue our Walmart has had is that tons of people are forgetting to take their card because it stays in the reader until the transaction is done and it's mounted in a weird place so it's super easy to forget if you're distracted by kids or something. 

 

Now, forgetting my card isn't something I thought about. I can see that being me, and I only have myself as a distraction these days. :huh:

 

I wonder when our card issuers will go to the chipped cards? In my family (immediate and extended), we counted six different issuers (not including department cards) and only one has issued a chipped card thus far and that had to be requested specifically by my family member. We just received new cards (good for two years) and they aren't chipped. We were hoping they would be.  :glare:

[bettyandbob]

It sounds like you have 4 stores you regularly shop. You can't drop them all. I suggest eliminating one store for several weeks/couple of months. Then, add that store back and eliminate another store for 2 months. Do this again until you've rotated through all the stores. This may help you figure it out. Also, keep a good record of when you went to each store. If you have a fraud issue again you can look back at your spending and possibly determine where the fraud occured. 

 

 

[Joan in GE]

 

I know chipped cards have been used online in Canada and Europe for years without issue, so I wonder if it isn't more of the US being waaaayyy behind the times on this. Maybe it's fearmongering? I just don't know.

 

There are different kinds of "chips". The kind that's been used for years over here is not the same as the "Tap and pay" type....

 

And believe me, if you travel in Europe it is much better to have the "chip" kind (eg some gas station machines don't have magnetic strip readers - and I almost got stuck one night)

 

Here's a bit about the Tap kind:

 

Q: Is this the same technology that's featured on a PayPassTM Card? Can I use my Chip Card to Tap and GoTM?

A: No. MasterCard® PayPassTM uses a different technology called RFID (radio frequency identification), which uses near-field communications to transmit your transaction - so you can pay by tap and go. Your Chip Card will need to be read by a device before you sign for your purchase. You can continue to swipe your card when making domestic purchases in the U.S. However, if your credit card already has PayPass functionality, you can still use it to tap and go.

Q: Chip Card, EMV card, smart Chip card...what's the difference?

A: These are all just different terms for the same technology. The technology used in these credit cards is commonly known as being EMV-enabled, which stands for Europay, MasterCard and Visa, which uphold the chip technology. These cards are a global standard for processing credit and debit card payments. Various credit card companies may refer to Chip Cards slightly differently, but they all function to help keep your card more secure.

from this site: https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/template.do?ID=chip-technology-questions

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

One thing we do is to pay our bills automatically with checking account and to most shop with a regular credit card. I do not use my debit card when shopping to prevent it from being compromised and disrupting our auto-pay.

[shawthorne44]

I just got off the phone with the police and they basically wrote me off.  I got the impression the officer didn't want to do the paperwork, but also that unless I know where it was stolen specifically then there's not much for them to investigate.  If we can narrow it down as to where it's happening, I may take that information to the police later.

 

All of this has made me wonder why we don't require a pin for credit card transactions, but we do for debit cards.  I think chip cards are coming soon, but I wonder why we don't require chip and pin like they do overseas.

 

A friend of mine at work had his identity stolen last week.  Someone was using his card in person at stores.  The credit card company was able to send him a text whenever his number was used.  It was used at a gas station.  He called the gas station while the thief was STILL THERE.  As a gas station, it had video cameras.  He called the local police, they totally blew him off.  They had video.  They know what car he is driving.  Probably his personal car registered in his name.  It should take 10 minutes of research, and then just going to pick him up.  But, noooooo, they don't care.  I think that is the core reason why identity theft is a problem.  It isn't really illegal if everyone knows you won't get prosecuted for it.  

[Annie G]

A friend of mine at work had his identity stolen last week.  Someone was using his card in person at stores.  The credit card company was able to send him a text whenever his number was used.  It was used at a gas station.  He called the gas station while the thief was STILL THERE.  As a gas station, it had video cameras.  He called the local police, they totally blew him off.  They had video.  They know what car he is driving.  Probably his personal car registered in his name.  It should take 10 minutes of research, and then just going to pick him up.  But, noooooo, they don't care.  I think that is the core reason why identity theft is a problem.  It isn't really illegal if everyone knows you won't get prosecuted for it.  

 

I liked this post but of course I really don't mean that I like it!  I know someone whose card was used at Best Buy and they said they had video of the guy using the card (the cardholder was a woman and BB didn't seem to notice that) but the police didn't pursue it. They just told her that her credit card company would remove the charge, which of course they did, but why aren't the credit card companies pitching a fit about that???