The riots - I just don't understand

[redsquirrel]

I'm aware of all of those things, thanks. :rolleyes: I'm not an idiot. :D

I only said what I said about the news because I was saying that *I* didn't hear about what happened in Baltimore until riots started. It wasn't on the news websites that I saw, but I wasn't actively looking for it.

NO one has time to actively search for these things every day. If they do, well, more power to them. I'm sorry that I apparently come off as uneducated because I don't. :glare:

 

I'm not sure how everyone else gets their national news, but I don't have the time to go scouring every major city's news to figure out what's going on in the world. Until I can find a reliable news source online that isn't biased, I'll just go with what makes headlines that can be easily found - and all of the stories you listed above did.

 

I didn't "write anything off" as blah blah blah. I was saying (pretty clearly, IMO), that all I see is a bunch of talking heads everywhere (this is not in reference to here - I'm talking news, I'm talking people IRL, I'm talking every time a situation like this comes up) saying that 'the system is corrupt and we need to change it'. It wasn't that I was saying they were wrong - I was saying that merely saying that does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It just doesn't. While we (general) all sit here in our comfortable homes living our comfortable lives talking about all that's wrong in the world, who are we relying on to actually do anything about it? Is this really all we are reduced to? Sitting and talking about it?

 

I live in a town that has a tumultuous racial history. Very. They were some of the first to close the schools when they were desegregated - and some of the last to reopen. This town has a huge history. It is still evident today. I'm looking every day for ways to bridge that gap in my own community, and it angers me (sorry, but it does) to see how much racial bias still exists in 'the system' today. So I'm just expressing my frustration with it. I live in a town where I have seen my nice neighbor kid get stopped by the police for walking down the street just because he happened to be black, as was the person they were looking for in conjunction with a crime. (He didn't fit any of the other characteristics of the guy they wanted.) I live in a town where I actually know people - and know them well - who look at a family sitting in front of us at the orchestra (yes, they were black) and say "I wonder why they are here... I guess they could be homeschoolers, too..." Um, you think? (It was a homeschool event.) This sort of thing just happens here, all the time. In the small instances I've seen, I try to do what I can, but it's a fine line because I don't ever want to seem like I'm using white privilege in any situation... Idk. It's tough.

 

Anyway, I was trying to avoid going into all that and I thought my post was succinct and obvious enough to make it clear that I was familiar with what was going on and that I wish I knew what could be done. Clearly that wasn't what happened.

 

 

Eta: I just read back over this and I think I may come across very rude. I apologize. That wasn't my intent... I guess I'll chalk it up to being frustrated, hungry, and in a hurry :lol: but that's no excuse. Sorry.

 

I can understand why you are feeling frustrated, but in your original post you did describe yourself as "pretty behind on the news" and that the 'extent of my news I get on fb" and only following a 'little bit of news".  And then to ask, in response to an earlier post of mine, 'why would anyone anyone think a fellow human being does not care" all came across as not really following any of this for quite a while.

 

And as for not following any news source until you can find one that is not biased, well, I guess you can continue to let the perfect be the enemy of the good, or you could follow more than one national reliable news source.  CNN is a good place to start, and then add in your local news and maybe look at the front pages of national paper like The Wall Street or The New York Times or even USA Today.  The Guardian is free to read online and they have a US edition. I like to peruse The Economist website on a regular basis. Maybe toss in some NPR on the radio. I prefer to listen to the BBC's World Service. You can stream it on your computer. I don't find it takes much time and you will get a variety of opinions. 

 

 

[swimmermom3]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/04/how-baltimore-riots-began-mondawmin-purge

 

:crying: This reduced me to tears.  Obviously, if the teachers and parents are to be believed, somebody in the Baltimore Police Department did not have their thinking cap on. Any high school teacher or principal could have told them this was a bad idea.

 

How many of those kids who were trapped there had no intention of getting involved in any kind of rioting? How many of those kids were panicked about getting to after school jobs or home in time to watch siblings while parents went to work? They took them off the buses? And just what were they expecting the kids to do? How long were they going to keep high school students facing police in full riot gear?

 

If this had happened to middle class white kids in a suburban neighborhood, how would the community have responded?

[pehp]

I don't know anything about the sports, so I have no idea.

 

As for race-related riots, my thought is that it stems from a feeling of powerlessness.  

 

Destroying the neighborhood is *not* a good choice in terms of dealing with that feeling, but powerlessness leads to desperation. You may try anything to regain a feeling of power, of being effective in the world.  How many outlets do these rioters have for their frustration and feelings of desperation and lack of power? If most of the rioters are relatively young men (I don't know the demographics but I'd guess that)--these are guys with major energy, major stores of physical energy.  Releasing that emotional energy can be cathartic. I know that is true for me and I'm a middle-aged woman.  

 

I do not agree with their rioting at all.  I do not agree with violence or with fighting fire with fire.  I think mobilization in nonviolent ways is a much more effective means of dealing with issues like this.  But my thought is that when someone feels powerless in the face of tragedy their response can turn violent if they don't have effective coping mechanisms and ways of feeling like *they* can do something personally to help. 

[ktgrok]

Anyway, I did not know anything about this situation until rioting started. But had I known, of course I would find it horrifying!!! Why would anyone think that a fellow human being DOES NOT care?!

 

 

 

Several people have asked what good rioting does. Well, the quote above shows what good it does. It draws attention to a problem that is horrifying. Had there not been riots, the above poster wouldn't know about the situation. And the only thing that will bring change is shedding light on the issue. It seems riots do that. 

 

That said, Martin Luther King Jr, the one that keeps being mentioned as in favor of peaceful protests, did understand looting. He said that when property is valued more than people, then the way you strike back is by destroying property. He didn't condone it, but he understood it. And I think his assessment is pretty accurate. When you feel that things get more protection than your life and the lives of those in your community, I guess acting out against the things makes some kind of twisted sense. 

 

Again, not condoning, but yeah, I can understand. 

[LucyStoner]

"I contend that the cry of "black power" is, at bottom, a reaction to the reluctance of white power to make the kind of changes necessary to make justice a reality for the Negro. I think that we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard." - Dr. M. L. King.

 

There is a video, this was on 60 Minutes in 1966 or thereabouts.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mlk-a-riot-is-the-language-of-the-unheard/

 

Everything changes. Nothing changes.

[raptor_dad]

Maybe I'm biased because my girls are living right in the middle if the riots but I'll never understand how destroying a CVS and stealing toilet paper and piles or merchandise sheds light on injustice.    T

 

That isn't justice. It's thievery.

 

People looting liquor stores make me mad. People looting toilet paper just make me sad.

 

My local newspaper led with a front page photo of someone looting a bag of stuff and toilet paper from the burned CVS... I'm sure I was supposed to be outraged <shrug> It just reminded me of Katrina. How desperate do you have to be to start looting toilet paper...

 

PS: Needless to say, I am sorry the poster I am responding to is in the middle of this...

[PeacefulChaos]

Sigh.

I really wish the responses to my posts were addressing/discussing the whole reason I posted, which was to ask, "what is being done/can be done to advocate for change?" ...rather than scolding me (or making an example of me) for only following bbc world news and a local DC station on a regular basis for news.

[redsquirrel]

Sigh.

I really wish the responses to my posts were addressing/discussing the whole reason I posted, which was to ask, "what is being done/can be done to advocate for change?" ...rather than scolding me (or making an example of me) for only following bbc world news and a local DC station on a regular basis for news.

 

You are right, no one has. And I think that is because it is difficult for any one person to do very much. And as you so succinctly summed it up with 'blah blah blah' it isn't anything you don't already know about.

 

I know change won't come without a sustained effort. It won't come through the media creating viral stories that get everyone worked up. Change on these issues is slow and takes dogged determination and doesn't look like much when it is happening. And, it is very easy to crush.

 

This is just as difficult to deal with as the entrenched rural white poverty I see in my parts. When people don't have jobs, the drug trade will employ them. Then parents can't raise their kids, the kids that can make it out get as far away as they can, the ones that are too damaged to leave stay and make their own kids but can't raise them, the community falls apart.

[NCMom]

Sigh.

I really wish the responses to my posts were addressing/discussing the whole reason I posted, which was to ask, "what is being done/can be done to advocate for change?" ...rather than scolding me (or making an example of me) for only following bbc world news and a local DC station on a regular basis for news.

 

ETA - a couple of words and changed some pronouns, lol

 

I never post in these threads because our family is not white. Many, many of these threads are so hurtful that I don't even read them. But this comment really struck a chord in me.

 

I would not have responded in the way you wanted because you asked -

"But why? Why would anyone think that???"

 

Isn't it clear why, as the poster responded to said, they might literally think that if a dog was treated the way Freddie Gray was that it would have garnered more attention from the media.  Isn't it clear why they think no one cares?

 

Because no one appears to.

 

No amount of protesting, suing the police department, etc. seems to have made one iota of difference in the way the police behave towards the minorities of Baltimore. This is not something new...yet people appear to know nothing of it. So not only does it not change anything, it doesn't even get it into discussion. And it isn't limited to Baltimore, or Cleveland or SC...

 

And even if it does get it into discussion (and really how long do people have to go through this carp every.single.day. before discussion becomes irrelevant) does it seem that non-minorities who don't live in Baltimore actually care? Or actually believe there is a problem?

 

For example, several posters on here (and one could even say many if counting the likes their posts get) routinely respond to discussions like this by minimizing/discounting completely ALL racially motivated incidents like the ones occurring in Baltimore to what my non-white kids call the "just another incident of young black thugs getting what they deserve scenario".  In other words because he was young and black and possibly/potentially a criminal, his life is pretty much worthless, so police brutality is a misnomer in these incidences; they were just doing their job...

 

And you know, not ONE white person on my Facebook feed posted anything in support of the peaceful protestors in MD this week yet MANY posted about the horrors of the destruction of that CVS store.  They appear to care very, very much about property destruction and toilet paper looting, but not at all about Freddie Gray.

 

So basically, in a very tiny nutshell, peaceful protest and trying to get people to even understand the need for change are what is being done. Educating people on things like bias and the need for better law enforcement training are things people are advocating for.

 

But clearly, at least from the point of view of our family, it isn't working.

 

Georgia

[PeacefulChaos]

I think I do understand why they think that.

 

I believe I worded my first post too similarly to the exact words going through my brain, which I don't generally do. I usually try to be more concise because one can't read emotion in the voice or facial expressions. When I posted I didn't think about that, and typed quickly exactly what I would have said had I been speaking in person.

 

So my "why?" question was off the cuff and was said without much thought, because I can see the precedent that has been set. It relates more to my inner turmoil of 'why does it have to be like this? Is it assumed that whites just don't care in general? But why? Why hasn't this changed?' mixed with feelings of frustration at being lumped in with people who don't feel or think the way I do just based on our skin color. (Yes, it was a silly thought on my part, but I think that if we are all honest, we all have immediate reactions to things that are not necessarily rational.)

 

My "blah blah blah" was also not well stated as I meant it in the same way I'd mean 'etc'. Irl it is not unusual for me to speak like this because I don't want to rehash things that are already known by everyone in the conversation. Idk if maybe this is a specific cultural thing but around here, it's not dismissive on its own unless the attitude and demeanor make it clear that it is. But like I said, I was quick to reply, which I try not to be, because of the differences in speaking face to face vs online.

 

Anyway, I hope that cleared some stuff up.

[TranquilMind]

There is a huge difference between protesting and running out of the mall with electronics.  One is trying to get things changed and the other is being the problem.  That isn't going to "shed light on a horrible injustice".  It feeds the stereotypes and makes the police more fearful for their own safety when they see other officers ending up in the hospital.  That will not make them go easier on suspects.

Right.  Martin Luther King and those who walked on the bridge protested.  These people are just engaging in criminal behavior, stealing and looting, and running innocent business owners out of business. 

As to Freddie Gray, of course that is horrible that he died, and I would like to hear the facts on that one, not some story.  I'm also reading that he had spinal surgery recently before this incident. Do not know what to believe. 

[swimmermom3]

ETA - a couple of words and changed some pronouns, lol

 

I never post in these threads because our family is not white. Many, many of these threads are so hurtful that I don't even read them. But this comment really struck a chord in me.

 

I would not have responded in the way you wanted because you asked -

"But why? Why would anyone think that???"

 

Isn't it clear why, as the poster responded to said, they might literally think that if a dog was treated the way Freddie Gray was that it would have garnered more attention from the media.  Isn't it clear why they think no one cares?

 

Because no one appears to.

 

No amount of protesting, suing the police department, etc. seems to have made one iota of difference in the way the police behave towards the minorities of Baltimore. This is not something new...yet people appear to know nothing of it. So not only does it not change anything, it doesn't even get it into discussion. And it isn't limited to Baltimore, or Cleveland or SC...

 

And even if it does get it into discussion (and really how long do people have to go through this carp every.single.day. before discussion becomes irrelevant) does it seem that non-minorities who don't live in Baltimore actually care? Or actually believe there is a problem?

 

For example, several posters on here (and one could even say many if counting the likes their posts get) routinely respond to discussions like this by minimizing/discounting completely ALL racially motivated incidents like the ones occurring in Baltimore to what my non-white kids call the "just another incident of young black thugs getting what they deserve scenario".  In other words because he was young and black and possibly/potentially a criminal, his life is pretty much worthless, so police brutality is a misnomer in these incidences; they were just doing their job...

 

And you know, not ONE white person on my Facebook feed posted anything in support of the peaceful protestors in MD this week yet MANY posted about the horrors of the destruction of that CVS store.  They appear to care very, very much about property destruction and toilet paper looting, but not at all about Freddie Gray.

 

So basically, in a very tiny nutshell, peaceful protest and trying to get people to even understand the need for change are what is being done. Educating people on things like bias and the need for better law enforcement training are things people are advocating for.

 

But clearly, at least from the point of view of our family, it isn't working.

 

Georgia

 

:grouphug: Thank you for posting this.

 

 

[Butter]

And you know, not ONE white person on my Facebook feed posted anything in support of the peaceful protestors in MD this week yet MANY posted about the horrors of the destruction of that CVS store.  They appear to care very, very much about property destruction and toilet paper looting, but not at all about Freddie Gray.

 

FWIW, exactly one of my friends (a white woman from Baltimore actually) has posted anything about the riots on FB and that FG got what he deserved (and let's just say many of her friends did not agree).  All my other friends have been posting about the peaceful people and/or pictures of rioting by white people on UofM's campus after a big win, if they posted about it at all (most haven't).  This is from both whites and blacks.  Possibly it is because so many of my friends are from Maryland so it's local news to them.  Fact is, the national news has apparently been focusing on the rioters and not on the peaceful people (not so on local news, though).  I'm not sure most people in the general population even know there were peaceful protests because, as usual, violence overshadows the good.

[Word Nerd]

Here's an American Journalism Review summary of media coverage in Baltimore, which has varied across the country. It's worth noting that some journalists covering the riots also experienced physical attacks and were beaten themselves. 

 

ETA: Here's a news roundup by Poynter.

 

[NCMom]

NM again.

 

 

 

 

 

[mom2scouts]

Interesting, because at least five of my friends posted on FB about the peaceful protests and every one of them are white.  Nobody made a single comment about the CVS.

 

On a different topic, I read today that there is a slight majority of black police officers in Baltimore.  Is that true?  If so, what is the relationship between the black community and black police officers?

 

 

~"And you know, not ONE white person on my Facebook feed posted anything in support of the peaceful protestors in MD this week yet MANY posted about the horrors of the destruction of that CVS store.  They appear to care very, very much about property destruction and toilet paper looting, but not at all about Freddie Gray.

 

So basically, in a very tiny nutshell, peaceful protest and trying to get people to even understand the need for change are what is being done. Educating people on things like bias and the need for better law enforcement training are things people are advocating for.

 

But clearly, at least from the point of view of our family, it isn't working.

 

Georgia"~

 

[redsquirrel]

Right.  Martin Luther King and those who walked on the bridge protested.  These people are just engaging in criminal behavior, stealing and looting, and running innocent business owners out of business. 

As to Freddie Gray, of course that is horrible that he died, and I would like to hear the facts on that one, not some story.  I'm also reading that he had spinal surgery recently before this incident. Do not know what to believe. 

 

When the bridge was crossed they were breaking the law. They were disobeying a direct order not to march, not to protest, and the media story at the time was that they were thugs who got what they deserved for breaking a reasonable request by law enforcement.  Yes, I know they weren't stealing anything, and those who loot and steal today ain't heros that is for sure, but still, the fact remains that the vast majority of white America is only willing to pay attention to African American communities when they are being shown as criminals. Weeks and weeks of peaceful protests in Baltimore and did anyone here feel the need to start a thread?  I wonder how many times any of you saw Baltimore mentioned in your facebook threads before the riots?

 

The night the riots started the National Press Corps dinner (aka nerdprom) was happening literally right across the river in DC.  The president, congress, movie stars, and literally anyone important in mainstream and not so mainstream media was under one roof at the DC Hilton.  All of them in black tie and fancy dress and lots of cameras and the whole thing being broadcast on CSPAN. Not one mention of the riots.

 

And we don't know the facts about poor Freddie Grey because the police won't talk. The blue curtain has come down and no one is talking. They haven't even said why they were chasing him to begin with. Nothing.

[raptor_dad]

No amount of protesting, suing the police department, etc. seems to have made one iota of difference in the way the police behave towards the minorities of Baltimore. This is not something new...yet people appear to know nothing of it. So not only does it not change anything, it doesn't even get it into discussion. And it isn't limited to Baltimore, or Cleveland or SC...

 

<snip>

And you know, not ONE white person on my Facebook feed posted anything in support of the peaceful protestors in MD this week yet MANY posted about the horrors of the destruction of that CVS store.  They appear to care very, very much about property destruction and toilet paper looting, but not at all about Freddie Gray.

 

So basically, in a very tiny nutshell, peaceful protest and trying to get people to even understand the need for change are what is being done. Educating people on things like bias and the need for better law enforcement training are things people are advocating for.

 

But clearly, at least from the point of view of our family, it isn't working.

 

Georgia

 

I'm more hopeful than this...

 

I think the BlackLivesMatter folks have highlighted this issue enough that dash cams and body cams are going to be required nationally in the near future. Most of the recent cases have been brought to light due to cell phone videos. Having video of all police interactions should help. There will still be controvery over when the cameras "weren't working" and mysterious injuries out of sight of cameras... but it'll help. I think this will be a watershed sort of like the Miranda decision.

 

Demilitarizing the police, deescalating the prison-industrial complex, etc is much more on the table now than in any time in at least a generation. Whatever reforms come out of this certainly won't be enough but I think MLK summed that up when he said "The arc of the moral universe is long. but it bends towards justice.". One painfully slow, inadequate step at a time...

 

If PeacefulChaos wants things to advocate for... push for bodycams, strong independent review boards for police involved deaths, and push back against any tough on crime political candidates. Those should be relatively uncontroversial.  

[redsquirrel]

Right.  Martin Luther King and those who walked on the bridge protested.  These people are just engaging in criminal behavior, stealing and looting, and running innocent business owners out of business. 

As to Freddie Gray, of course that is horrible that he died, and I would like to hear the facts on that one, not some story.  I'm also reading that he had spinal surgery recently before this incident. Do not know what to believe. 

 

Not true

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-settlement-20150429-story.html

 

But court records examined Wednesday by The Baltimore Sun show the case had nothing to do with a car accident or a spine injury. Instead, they are connected to a lawsuit alleging that Gray and his sister were injured by exposure lead paint.

Paperwork was filed in December allowing Gray and his sister, Fredericka to each collect an $18,000 payment from Peachtree Settlement Funding, records show. In exchange, Peachtree would have received a $108,439 annuity that was scheduled to be paid in $602 monthly installments between 2024 and 2039.

 

 

In his documents, Freddie Gray checked "work injury, medical malpractice and auto accident" as the type of accident. When asked to explain, he also wrote something that is unreadable. He also wrote something unreadable when asked if he was a minor when the case was settled.

Both cases were filed at the same time by a New Jersey law firm.

 

A judge dismissed the case on April 2 when neither Gray nor his sister appeared in court, records show

 

the article ends with:

 

"The Free Republic website said Wednesday that Gray's "life-ending injuries to his spine may have possibly been the result of spinal and neck surgery that he allegedly received a week before he was arrested." The article also said the injury was a result of a car accident and cited thefourthesate.com as the source of information. The story did not cite any court records.

Free Republic has since removed the story from its website and could not be reached for comment."

 

 

[Tammi K]

Georgia in NC, on 29 Apr 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

And you know, not ONE white person on my Facebook feed posted anything in support of the peaceful protestors in MD this week yet MANY posted about the horrors of the destruction of that CVS store.  They appear to care very, very much about property destruction and toilet paper looting, but not at all about Freddie Gray.

 

My daughter lives in Baltimore.

My daughter is white.

My daughter posts on FB.

This morning she posted this:  Baltimore is Not Ferguson Here's What it really Is

 

She cares about Freddy Gray. LOTS of white people care about Freddy Gray. 

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

 

Interesting, because at least five of my friends posted on FB about the peaceful protests and every one of them are white.  Nobody made a single comment about the CVS.

 

On a different topic, I read today that there is a slight majority of black police officers in Baltimore.  Is that true?  If so, what is the relationship between the black community and black police officers?

 

 

 

The relationship is poor. David Simon (creator of "The Wire" - HBO drama about Baltimore/the police/the drug dealers/etc) wrote a great piece about why the method of policing in Baltimore is part of the problem. Correction: I think he was interviewed in the link below.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/04/29/david-simon-on-baltimore-s-anguish?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_source=opening-statement&utm_term=newsletter-20150429-169

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Not true

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-settlement-20150429-story.html

 

But court records examined Wednesday by The Baltimore Sun show the case had nothing to do with a car accident or a spine injury. Instead, they are connected to a lawsuit alleging that Gray and his sister were injured by exposure lead paint.

Paperwork was filed in December allowing Gray and his sister, Fredericka to each collect an $18,000 payment from Peachtree Settlement Funding, records show. In exchange, Peachtree would have received a $108,439 annuity that was scheduled to be paid in $602 monthly installments between 2024 and 2039.

 

 

In his documents, Freddie Gray checked "work injury, medical malpractice and auto accident" as the type of accident. When asked to explain, he also wrote something that is unreadable. He also wrote something unreadable when asked if he was a minor when the case was settled.

Both cases were filed at the same time by a New Jersey law firm.

 

A judge dismissed the case on April 2 when neither Gray nor his sister appeared in court, records show

 

the article ends with:

 

"The Free Republic website said Wednesday that Gray's "life-ending injuries to his spine may have possibly been the result of spinal and neck surgery that he allegedly received a week before he was arrested." The article also said the injury was a result of a car accident and cited thefourthesate.com as the source of information. The story did not cite any court records.

Free Republic has since removed the story from its website and could not be reached for comment."

 

I just want to add that even if he had recently had spinal surgery (which he apparently didn't) it still wouldn't help explain how his spinal column was 80% severed weeks later.  Severed spinal columns and crushed larynxes generally are not a known complication of spinal surgeries.

 

[TranquilMind]

When the bridge was crossed they were breaking the law. They were disobeying a direct order not to march, not to protest, and the media story at the time was that they were thugs who got what they deserved for breaking a reasonable request by law enforcement.  Yes, I know they weren't stealing anything, and those who loot and steal today ain't heros that is for sure, but still, the fact remains that the vast majority of white America is only willing to pay attention to African American communities when they are being shown as criminals. Weeks and weeks of peaceful protests in Baltimore and did anyone here feel the need to start a thread?  I wonder how many times any of you saw Baltimore mentioned in your facebook threads before the riots?

 

The night the riots started the National Press Corps dinner (aka nerdprom) was happening literally right across the river in DC.  The president, congress, movie stars, and literally anyone important in mainstream and not so mainstream media was under one roof at the DC Hilton.  All of them in black tie and fancy dress and lots of cameras and the whole thing being broadcast on CSPAN. Not one mention of the riots.

 

And we don't know the facts about poor Freddie Grey because the police won't talk. The blue curtain has come down and no one is talking. They haven't even said why they were chasing him to begin with. Nothing.

Breaking the law by peaceful protest can in no way be compared to stealing and breaking windows and hurting journalists.  Not even in the same ball park.   You just eliminate any credibility you could possibly have when you act like thugs. 

 

I hope we will find out what happened to Mr. Grey.  I really want to know. 

[redsquirrel]

Breaking the law by peaceful protest can in no way be compared to stealing and breaking windows and hurting journalists.  Not even in the same ball park.   You just eliminate any credibility you could possibly have when you act like thugs. 

 

I hope we will find out what happened to Mr. Grey.  I really want to know. 

 

I absolutely agree. And again, the vast majority of protestors in Baltimore, at protests that were taking place over weeks, were NOT violent. Does what happened on one day negate everything that came before? Is the community's plea for justice voided?  At what point does the rest of the country feel like they have expressed their disgust at the riots enough and begin listen to what our African American communities are saying? It is so, so easy to keep going over how you are upset by the riots, turned off by the riots, angered by the riots...but when it comes to black men and boys being shot down the rest of the country says they 'need to know more' they can't make a judgement, they don't understand.

 

And again, the media only paid attention on a nationwide scale, when the protests turned violent. It is only when black folks are being taken away in handcuffs, and property is damaged, that the country pays attention.

 

and FYI, this is going to keep happening until some systemic changes take place. It is that or we start keeping riot police in poor neighborhoods across America at all times. Is that what we want? Or maybe the country would prefer we start keeping riot police in the nicer neighborhoods and let the poor ones fend for themselves? At this point, neither would surprise me.

[Slojo]

Sigh.

I really wish the responses to my posts were addressing/discussing the whole reason I posted, which was to ask, "what is being done/can be done to advocate for change?" ...rather than scolding me (or making an example of me) for only following bbc world news and a local DC station on a regular basis for news.

 

You've clarified - thank you. I really did mean each of the things I listed, though probably not in sufficient detail as to be actionable at the moment. People are advocating for change, and I think it is possible to join an organized effort. But just as importantly, and I've said this to my white friends, this cannot just be something the black community is seen as caring about. So, I ask people to bring it up in their circles of influence, whether that is knowing what the suspension rates between black kids and white kids in your local school are, and asking more about it; or interrupting a cousin who starts talking about "those people" or disrupting your own thinking -- if that's needed -- in saying, :You know, I think I judged that person unfairly." 

 

As for feeling like you might be being lumped in with others based on race -- well, I actually have quite a bit of empathy for that. I really do understand how that feels.  I just wanted to loop back to you since my thread was one of the ones that likely made you feel called out.

[raptor_dad]

 

That said, Martin Luther King Jr, the one that keeps being mentioned as in favor of peaceful protests, did understand looting. He said that when property is valued more than people, then the way you strike back is by destroying property. He didn't condone it, but he understood it. And I think his assessment is pretty accurate. When you feel that things get more protection than your life and the lives of those in your community, I guess acting out against the things makes some kind of twisted sense. 

 

Exactly... here are a few MLK quotes... the ones linked before I'm editing differently...

 

"I think that we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard. And, what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the economic plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years."  -1966

 

"But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear?...It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity." -1968 "The Other America"

 

Riots are a canary in the coal mine for a democratic society... they cannot be dismissed out of hand... everyone must struggle with what societal not personal failures led to this event.

 

 

[swimmermom3]

When the bridge was crossed they were breaking the law. They were disobeying a direct order not to march, not to protest, and the media story at the time was that they were thugs who got what they deserved for breaking a reasonable request by law enforcement.  Yes, I know they weren't stealing anything, and those who loot and steal today ain't heros that is for sure, but still, the fact remains that the vast majority of white America is only willing to pay attention to African American communities when they are being shown as criminals. Weeks and weeks of peaceful protests in Baltimore and did anyone here feel the need to start a thread?  I wonder how many times any of you saw Baltimore mentioned in your facebook threads before the riots?

 

The night the riots started the National Press Corps dinner (aka nerdprom) was happening literally right across the river in DC.  The president, congress, movie stars, and literally anyone important in mainstream and not so mainstream media was under one roof at the DC Hilton.  All of them in black tie and fancy dress and lots of cameras and the whole thing being broadcast on CSPAN. Not one mention of the riots.

 

And we don't know the facts about poor Freddie Grey because the police won't talk. The blue curtain has come down and no one is talking. They haven't even said why they were chasing him to begin with. Nothing.

 

Did you see Jon Stewart's "discussion" of the "nerdprom?"

 

[swimmermom3]

Exactly... here are a few MLK quotes... the ones linked before I'm editing differently...

 

"I think that we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard. And, what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the economic plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years."  -1966

 

"But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear?...It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity." -1968 "The Other America"

 

Riots are a canary in the coal mine for a democratic society... they cannot be dismissed out of hand... everyone must struggle with what societal not personal failures led to this event.

 

I really can't "like" this post enough. Thank you.

 

[MyThreeSons]

 

Anyway, I did not know anything about this situation until rioting started. But had I known, of course I would find it horrifying!!! Why would anyone think that a fellow human being DOES NOT care?!

 

Maybe someone would think that when they read all of the idiotic remarks about the "long rap sheet" of Freddie Gray -- as if the fact that he had previous convictions has anything to do with how he was treated.

[MyThreeSons]

The pastor who wrote this article is a friend of a friend of mine. I think he makes some great points. http://thefrontporch.org/2015/04/why-is-baltimore-rioting-and-how-can-we-help/

 

[raptor_dad]

The pastor who wrote this article is a friend of a friend of mine. I think he makes some great points. http://thefrontporch.org/2015/04/why-is-baltimore-rioting-and-how-can-we-help/

 

Wow! That is a great article. Thanks for sharing.

 

[MyThreeSons]

I love the Baltimore Orioles' manager's response: "I've never been black." This is what so many of my friends just don't get.

 

http://mic.com/articles/117004/this-is-how-white-people-should-respond-to-the-baltimore-protests

[Luanne]

I believe the bolded isn't really true and thus hurts the credibility of the rest of your post.

 

From what I understand what the UNC students typically do to celebrate is have a bonfire(s) on Franklin Street.  The campus and Chapel Hill police departments know it's going to happen.  The students can get permits to have the bonfires.  So a totally different situation than a riot.  I believe there has only very rarely been some minor vandalism/property damage over the years, but nothing anywhere akin to "violence and destruction."  See this article about the celebration on Franklin Street last year.

 

 

No injures.  No arrests.  No increase in calls to the PD.  Real crazy time, huh?

 

And here's a video clip.  Looks pretty tame to me.

 

(And yes, I've got a kid at UNC so may be a little biased.  Or maybe just a little more well informed.)

 

Riots do occur when certain teams win or lose whether it be college or pro.  YOUR credibility suffers from you lack of information.