Granny_Weatherwax Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I thought I would begin a new thread so we could address/discuss financial aid issues aside from admissions. We have received all financial aid awards from the schools which have accepted DS. We are surprised at how much the schools are requesting as a family contribution. There is no way we can pay what two of the schools want from us. As a result, DS will be declining the acceptance to one school. We are appealing the financial aid award at another. That school, which already requires both the F.A.F.S.A and the C.S.S, required tax information from 2010-2014 as well as current pay stubs for DH and myself. The appeal process has been smooth and the Fin. Aid Office has responded quickly and with kindness. I hope the appeal is successful as this school is the best social & academic fit for DS. I know I have said this before but I was caught off guard with the difference in financial aid and expected EFC when compared to NPC and the F.A.F.S.A determined EFC. I expected minor differences (+- 1,000-3,000) but not double or almost triple the EFC. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Well, that was fast. The appeal has been processed and we received notification this morning. The school met us about half way from what we requested. This still makes it a reach financially but definitely doable with some creative financing. The scholarship amount didn't change but the grant award did so the increase is not automatically renewable for all four years. Has anyone sent their student to a school and then had to appeal (fight for) aid every year? I just don't think I have it in me to worry and stress every year about being able to afford to keep him at this school or, worst case, having him begin there and then have to transfer out after a year or two. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I was also caught off guard by the difference. Last year I debated requesting an increase in aid from several schools, but we chose not to in the end. I've read so much about schools agreeing to lower the costs for the first year and then giving less aid in following years. The numbers we saw from some schools were unworkable for us and others were a big stretch and thankfully others were affordable. Could you request that they put in writing that they will provide a similar proportion of the cost in grants for all four years, assuming no significant increases in incomes? With that assurance I would keep the college in consideration, but I do understand about not wanting to worry and stress about the finances. At one of dd's original top choices, many students are forced to move off campus,strictly budget food, and work more hours, or transfer. We dropped it from consideration. Dd now has no doubts that she made the right choice, both financially and academically. While I think it's horrible to begin at a "dream" school and need to transfer out two years later due to finances, I think it can work well for some to begin at a financial safety with the thought that they can possibly transfer in two years to the other school. Anecdotally I've read that a lot of students end up happily staying at their financial safety for all four years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 For the schools that are asking you to pay more than EFC, I'm wondering: 1. The school's net price calculator was accurate or not? 2. The profile on Big Future showing average percent of need met was accurate? 3. The profile on tuitiontracker.org was accurate for your income level? I want to make sure that we have some financial safety schools available when we get there with DD next year, and would like to know which financial aid prediction tools are turning out to be most accurate. Thanks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I was also caught off guard by the difference. Last year I debated requesting an increase in aid from several schools, but we chose not to in the end. I've read so much about schools agreeing to lower the costs for the first year and then giving less aid in following years. The numbers we saw from some schools were unworkable for us and others were a big stretch and thankfully others were affordable. Could you request that they put in writing that they will provide a similar proportion of the cost in grants for all four years, assuming no significant increases in incomes? With that assurance I would keep the college in consideration, but I do understand about not wanting to worry and stress about the finances. At one of dd's original top choices, many students are forced to move off campus,strictly budget food, and work more hours, or transfer. We dropped it from consideration. Dd now has no doubts that she made the right choice, both financially and academically. While I think it's horrible to begin at a "dream" school and need to transfer out two years later due to finances, I think it can work well for some to begin at a financial safety with the thought that they can possibly transfer in two years to the other school. Anecdotally I've read that a lot of students end up happily staying at their financial safety for all four years. At the same time, I would have a hard time saying no to DD's top pick for fear of what future years will look like. I feel like we need to take it a year at a time ("each day has worries of its own..."). We're on the verge of saying yes to DD's top pick. We can make it work (just barely) with the current offers, but she is filing a request to live off campus and we were told that that will lower her grant by $1500, which may push us over into we just can't do it territory. She's appealing that change, which we've been told is pretty much up to the discretion of the head FA lady. And I wish the departments would just get back to us already on the scholarship apps! My gosh, we were supposed to hear back on those a month ago. She's sent email inquiries, and NADA. No response. they're killing me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Oh, and another interesting thing. One school calculated her aide based solely on tuition, another school based it on the total cost of attendance (food, housing, transportation, books, incidentals). Both schools came in under our EFC, but the difference between what was offered by the 2 schools was $7500 (and the one that offered less aide is also 3k more in tuitions, so it was a pretty easy choice). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 For us, the NPCs were more accurate. Percent of need met can be misleading as it is listed as the average percent. What also varies tremendously is how the schools meet need. Most use loans, work study and summer earnings, but some add loans above what the student can access and ask for family contribution well above the EFC. Never used Tuition Tracker and while it does show comparatively how good or bad the schools are at meeting need, the years listed aren't current enough to be accurate. Most recent showing is 2013. Some schools have changed their allocation of financial aid since then and it's not accurately reflected. If you want to really make sure that you have a financial safety, I'd even suggest contacting the financial aid office and asking them what it will likely be. Now is probably not the best time as they are busy getting out financial aid info for the incoming class. I don't know if they'd give info or just refer you to their NPC. Equally important is to make sure that your student actually wants to go to the financial safeties. It may not be their first choice, but it shouldn't be a school they would dread attending. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 For the schools that are asking you to pay more than EFC, I'm wondering: 1. The school's net price calculator was accurate or not? 2. The profile on Big Future showing average percent of need met was accurate? 3. The profile on tuitiontracker.org was accurate for your income level? I want to make sure that we have some financial safety schools available when we get there with DD next year, and would like to know which financial aid prediction tools are turning out to be most accurate. Thanks. And adding-- If the NPC was inaccurate, do/did you have any of the factors that can throw off a NPC (according to CC threads) such as owning a business, owning property other than a primary residence, divorced parents, etc? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 For the schools that are asking you to pay more than EFC, I'm wondering: 1. The school's net price calculator was accurate or not? NOT accurate. 2. The profile on Big Future showing average percent of need met was accurate? 3. The profile on tuitiontracker.org was accurate for your income level? I want to make sure that we have some financial safety schools available when we get there with DD next year, and would like to know which financial aid prediction tools are turning out to be most accurate. Thanks. For the school to which we appealed: The NPC indicated an EFC of ~ $14,000. Big Future indicated a Fed. Method EFC of ~ $11,000 and an Instit. Method of ~ $10,000. I didn't run numbers on tuition tracker. This school's first offer included an EFC almost double the NPC and about 2.3 times the Fed. Method EFC. The appeal offer is still above the NPC and Big Future's calculations. For the school DS is saying no to: The NPC was ~$15,000. The expected family contribution from the school is almost twice that (+ another $2000 if we do not accept the unsubsidized loan). For us, none of the avenues for estimating family contributions was accurate. The only reason DS has the option to attend school is due to his merit aid. Without it, there is no way we would have been able to afford a four year college or university. HTH 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 At the same time, I would have a hard time saying no to DD's top pick for fear of what future years will look like. I feel like we need to take it a year at a time ("each day has worries of its own..."). We're on the verge of saying yes to DD's top pick. We can make it work (just barely) with the current offers, but she is filing a request to live off campus and we were told that that will lower her grant by $1500, which may push us over into we just can't do it territory. She's appealing that change, which we've been told is pretty much up to the discretion of the head FA lady. And I wish the departments would just get back to us already on the scholarship apps! My gosh, we were supposed to hear back on those a month ago. She's sent email inquiries, and NADA. No response. they're killing me. We didn't say no. Dd made her choice. I did share with her what I read about the financial reality of the school and shared what stretching so far financially might mean. Dd didn't go into the process with any clear favorite, (I had some but those even changed with more research and hindsight) but she did have some top choices. Research, visits and financial aid all factored into her choosing her number one when all was said and done. I hope you get good news, but I'd encourage her to visit all her options, ideally overnight. As hard as it may be to say no now, imagine how much harder it could be should you need to do that two years from now. I forget where to get the info, but you can find out what percent of need is met for freshmen vs what percent is met for students overall. If there's a large difference, chances are your student will receive less aid in another year or two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I will be calling the dc's schools this afternoon once I drop youngest off. The school that they both want to go to since birth is giving them nothing! Not a penny. Other kids in our area who have gotten accepted are getting money and we have two going at the same time. I don't understand. Dh called about a week ago and they said we could have it revised in July, but the kids have to make their decision by May 1st. We can't wait until then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 We didn't say no. Dd made her choice. I did share with her what I read about the financial reality of the school and shared what stretching so far financially might mean. Dd didn't go into the process with any clear favorite, (I had some but those even changed with more research and hindsight) but she did have some top choices. Research, visits and financial aid all factored into her choosing her number one when all was said and done. I hope you get good news, but I'd encourage her to visit all her options, ideally overnight. As hard as it may be to say no now, imagine how much harder it could be should you need to do that two years from now. I forget where to get the info, but you can find out what percent of need is met for freshmen vs what percent is met for students overall. If there's a large difference, chances are your student will receive less aid in another year or two. I'm sorry, I wasn't really speaking to your specific situation and decisions! I'm sure you've made the right choice for your DD. Thanks for the tip. Looking at dd's offers, they're all renewable (except 1k), based on GPA. I think we'll be ok, but it doesn't hurt to investigate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 I will be calling the dc's schools this afternoon once I drop youngest off. The school that they both want to go to since birth is giving them nothing! Not a penny. Other kids in our area who have gotten accepted are getting money and we have two going at the same time. I don't understand. Dh called about a week ago and they said we could have it revised in July, but the kids have to make their decision by May 1st. We can't wait until then. I am so sorry for your DC and for you. :( I know how frustrated(angry) you must feel. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Sassenach that's great that they're all renewable. In our situation, dd is paying for most of everything herself so the decision really was hers. We just don't have the ability to be of much help, but we would if we could and we do when we can. Every family's circumstances are different and you have to go with what will work for you. Carolyn hopefully somehow they made an error and didn't account for both being there at the same time. I hope they are able to make it affordable for your family. I think it's unreasonable to expect you to wait until July. They may need to see who commits and how much aid they have left after that and after accepting students off the waitlist as well. I know you're not supposed to submit deposits to more than one school, but in your situation it might be the way to go. Maybe someone here has been in that situation or has suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Sassenach that's great that they're all renewable. In our situation, dd is paying for most of everything herself so the decision really was hers. We just don't have the ability to be of much help, but we would if we could and we do when we can. Every family's circumstances are different and you have to go with what will work for you. Carolyn hopefully somehow they made an error and didn't account for both being there at the same time. I hope they are able to make it affordable for your family. I think it's unreasonable to expect you to wait until July. They may need to see who commits and how much aid they have left after that and after accepting students off the waitlist as well. I know you're not supposed to submit deposits to more than one school, but in your situation it might be the way to go. Maybe someone here has been in that situation or has suggestions. Just got off the phone with the school. Even when they take into account our "special circumstance", it still does not qualify for them for any aid (we are only $2k short of meeting that) He said even if they did qualify, the most that is need based awarded is $5k. I feel sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 :grouphug: :grouphug: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Our EFC as calculated by FASFA was doubled by ds's first choice. Yes, you read that correctly. They expected us to contribute double what the FAFSA calculated EFC was. We were kind of floored. At any rate, ds was not willing to borrow $20,000 a year nor were we. He is happy where he landed which will require only $4600.00 per year from us. Years ago when dd was applying to college she was awarded the dean's scholarship at one school. It was a nice size scholarship. BUT, those who earned the dean's award were required to live in "honors" housing which was $5000.00 more per year than regular dorms. Quite a little scam they had going. That really turned her off to the school. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trilliums Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Our FAFSA only EFC was about half of the NPCs from meet need schools. Actually FA awards from meet need schools is about 20% more than the NPC values. Sigh. They just keep going up! Hugs and patience to everyone going through this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Our EFC as calculated by FASFA was doubled by ds's first choice. Yes, you read that correctly. They expected us to contribute double what the FAFSA calculated EFC was. We were kind of floored. At any rate, ds was not willing to borrow $20,000 a year nor were we. He is happy where he landed which will require only $4600.00 per year from us. Years ago when dd was applying to college she was awarded the dean's scholarship at one school. It was a nice size scholarship. BUT, those who earned the dean's award were required to live in "honors" housing which was $5000.00 more per year than regular dorms. Quite a little scam they had going. That really turned her off to the school. Ours was too. This is the school the kids have been wanting to go since they were born. Ds went to a seminar today by someone in an industry with a degree that ds is interested in. He told ds to go to the highest quality school that he can go to regardless of the cost. (the school that ds wants to go to is one of the best places to go for his degree) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Ours was too. This is the school the kids have been wanting to go since they were born. Ds went to a seminar today by someone in an industry with a degree that ds is interested in. He told ds to go to the highest quality school that he can go to regardless of the cost. (the school that ds wants to go to is one of the best places to go for his degree) I would take that individual's commentary as personal opinion without researching the accuracy of the statement. There are very few fields where the UG school is going to make or break a career. There are a few (apparently finance is one where it seems to come into play according CC), but by and large, it is not a universal truth. FWIW, if it makes you feel any better, all of our kids have had to go the cheap, non-elite public university route. Not one of them has had it hamper their careers or opportunities. Where our ds is currently attending majoring in physics (wayyyy down the totem pole), students have gone on to grad school at Stanford and other top institutions. Our oldest ds is a chemical engineer and started his career making close (not quite, but within just a few thousand dollars) to the posted salaries of grads from top ranked universities for chemE. But, he graduated with zero debt and in the 3 yrs since he graduated, he has been promoted twice and has had significant salary increases. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Ds went to a seminar today by someone in an industry with a degree that ds is interested in. He told ds to go to the highest quality school that he can go to regardless of the cost. (the school that ds wants to go to is one of the best places to go for his degree) Did this dude offer to pay for it too? Because that type of counseling is terribly suspect IRL. My guy is at URoc - a Top 30 school, so no slouch, but it got selected in part because it was the least expensive of his choices - they met our EFC. And even though it's "just" a Top 30 school (so not that high in some eyes), he applied for and got accepted to a paid summer internship at Stanford this summer. Stanford says approx 240 applied and only 13 got accepted. Apparently he didn't have to be attending a Top 13 school to get considered. He also got an interview for a Harvard internship, but we'll never know if he'd have been chosen for that one as Stanford's was his first choice (and they notified first of his apps). Part of his reasoning for his choice is that Stanford's pays $6400 for 8 weeks. :hurray: Harvard pays nothing. :glare: I don't know if he could have gotten these opportunities had he gone to a much lower school as he wouldn't have the same foundation without his ongoing research, etc, but I imagine he could have at any peer institution (state or private). And decent jobs in many fields? Those can come from many colleges/universities. My oldest easily got a job using his business degree w/accounting concentration right out of college. His school likely isn't Top anything on national lists, but he loved it and they were also terrific with FA for us. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I forget where to get the info, but you can find out what percent of need is met for freshmen vs what percent is met for students overall. If there's a large difference, chances are your student will receive less aid in another year or two. This can be found in section H2 of the common data set for the school. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Thanks Sue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Thanks Sue! You're welcome. I wanted to copy and paste an example so we could all discuss, but it wasn't easy and it's too late to mess with it tonight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I would take that individual's commentary as personal opinion without researching the accuracy of the statement. There are very few fields where the UG school is going to make or break a career. There are a few (apparently finance is one where it seems to come into play according CC), but by and large, it is not a universal truth. FWIW, if it makes you feel any better, all of our kids have had to go the cheap, non-elite public university route. Not one of them has had it hamper their careers or opportunities. Where our ds is currently attending majoring in physics (wayyyy down the totem pole), students have gone on to grad school at Stanford and other top institutions. Our oldest ds is a chemical engineer and started his career making close (not quite, but within just a few thousand dollars) to the posted salaries of grads from top ranked universities for chemE. But, he graduated with zero debt and in the 3 yrs since he graduated, he has been promoted twice and has had significant salary increases. Chemical engineering is the ds' intended major! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 How consistent does merit aid tend to be in subsequent years?There is a little picture of the common data set in post #9 in this thread. I remembered the post in the middle of the night.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Chemical engineering is the ds' intended major!Then I strongly disagree with that speaker's comment. Your son needs to attend an ABET accredited program. That accreditation assures employers that the grads from the program have received the education they need them to have received. Your Ds should aim for top grades. He should plan to coop. (Coop employers have a responsibility to offer their student employees training. This is different from internships. Coops are formal agreements between employers and universities. At graduation, coops=employment that matters to future employers.) My dh and my ds are both chemEs. My dh has had numerous coops work under him before. They have come from universities all across the country, including small regional directional universities (considered by some to be the armpits of higher ed,) He works for one of the top global chemical companies. And no, they don't recruit and hire from only top schools. Our ds graduated from a small, not nationally ranked, only regionally and then just very avg. He graduated with a 3.6+ GPA, a research internship between sophomore and jr yr, a coop yr between jr and sr, and graduated with multiple job offers. He is highly respected by his current employer and in addition to his promotions, and has received 2 significant awards. Before his transfer, he was sent to universities for career fairs for coop recruiting. He went to LOCAL and large universities across his state. Both he and my husband have witnessed local university hires. When corporations have employees they like from a regional school, they HR dept will definitely hire from there. My advice is to look at the schools you can afford and see which companies are coming to their career fairs. Find out what employers think of the school's grads. (My Ds's university is not known outside the local region, but industry love its engineering grads. Guess what? It really doesn't matter if some random personacross the country thinks it is a top school. What matters is what does industry think of its grads.) One other thought, most companies hiring chemEs are national or global. Even if the company has a local presence, it does not mean the job offers will restrict them locally. My ds was offered jobs across the country. Our family has been very mobile and has moved numerous times both nationally and internationally. HTH His career is not over before his education even starts bc he can't attend an "elite" school; he just needs to work hard and take advantage of all career building opportunities. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Both he and my husband have witnessed local university hires. When corporations have employees they like from a regional school, they HR dept will definitely hire from there. My advice is to look at the schools you can afford and see which companies are coming to their career fairs. Find out what employers think of the school's grads. (My Ds's university is not known outside the local region, but industry love its engineering grads. Guess what? It really doesn't matter if some random personacross the country thinks it is a top school. What matters is what does industry think of its grads.) IMO, this part applies to any major. If one looks to see where grads of any college have gone (employment or grad school), it's a decent indicator of where more grads can/will go if they achieve similar grades/experiences. It's why Eckerd is a TOP school for Marine Science, but probably doesn't make many generic Top 10 lists. It matters more in the correct field than in US News. A Penn St grad is more likely than a Harvard grad to get employed in our area in engineering. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I know I've been floored by the difference. Ana decided to live at home her first year of college. She applied to the two state universities within driving distance. One offered her a $2k renewable scholarship each year for four years. The other gave her $10k+. It covered her tuition fully plus books. What in the world?! I have no explanation EXCEPT we've found that the financial aid office at the state flagship has a point system in which it determines awards and in that is class rank. We put Ana down as ranked 1 of 1. Did that have an impact? No idea. But we just got her award letter for next year and they actually increased her award. It will be $12k+. It will cover her tuition, her books, her commute expenses, food. I know this is pennies when some of you are looking at $60k in tuition. :( But maybe it's helpful to someone. So she went to the better state school. I had really wanted her to have a private Christian education at a small school. She *really* wanted to stay out of debt. Whatever happened, I'm pretty grateful. ;) (As an OT aside, she switched her major to clinical psychology and this school is an excellent fit so it worked out well.) All this to say, if I was going to emphasize anything, it would be that homeschoolers apply to a few schools because the difference is drastic. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 At the same time, I would have a hard time saying no to DD's top pick for fear of what future years will look like. I feel like we need to take it a year at a time ("each day has worries of its own..."). We're on the verge of saying yes to DD's top pick. We can make it work (just barely) with the current offers, but she is filing a request to live off campus and we were told that that will lower her grant by $1500, which may push us over into we just can't do it territory. She's appealing that change, which we've been told is pretty much up to the discretion of the head FA lady. And I wish the departments would just get back to us already on the scholarship apps! My gosh, we were supposed to hear back on those a month ago. She's sent email inquiries, and NADA. No response. they're killing me. Good news! Her grant will remain unchanged! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 I've written a note to DS's school in an attempt to determine how much of DS's grant will be renewable. The Fin Aid letter states that the grant is dependent upon our DD attending college. If we lose that money when DD graduates, we will not be able to afford the school. I am hoping for good news. With the waitlist disappointments of this week, I could use some solid good news to share with DS. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Then I strongly disagree with that speaker's comment. Your son needs to attend an ABET accredited program. That accreditation assures employers that the grads from the program have received the education they need them to have received. Your Ds should aim for top grades. He should plan to coop. (Coop employers have a responsibility to offer their student employees training. This is different from internships. Coops are formal agreements between employers and universities. At graduation, coops=employment that matters to future employers.) My dh and my ds are both chemEs. My dh has had numerous coops work under him before. They have come from universities all across the country, including small regional directional universities (considered by some to be the armpits of higher ed,) He works for one of the top global chemical companies. And no, they don't recruit and hire from only top schools. Our ds graduated from a small, not nationally ranked, only regionally and then just very avg. He graduated with a 3.6+ GPA, a research internship between sophomore and jr yr, a coop yr between jr and sr, and graduated with multiple job offers. He is highly respected by his current employer and in addition to his promotions, and has received 2 significant awards. Before his transfer, he was sent to universities for career fairs for coop recruiting. He went to LOCAL and large universities across his state. Both he and my husband have witnessed local university hires. When corporations have employees they like from a regional school, they HR dept will definitely hire from there. My advice is to look at the schools you can afford and see which companies are coming to their career fairs. Find out what employers think of the school's grads. (My Ds's university is not known outside the local region, but industry love its engineering grads. Guess what? It really doesn't matter if some random personacross the country thinks it is a top school. What matters is what does industry think of its grads.) One other thought, most companies hiring chemEs are national or global. Even if the company has a local presence, it does not mean the job offers will restrict them locally. My ds was offered jobs across the country. Our family has been very mobile and has moved numerous times both nationally and internationally. HTH His career is not over before his education even starts bc he can't attend an "elite" school; he just needs to work hard and take advantage of all career building opportunities. Thanks so much for this info! I will share with ds tonight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 IMO, this part applies to any major. If one looks to see where grads of any college have gone (employment or grad school), it's a decent indicator of where more grads can/will go if they achieve similar grades/experiences. It's why Eckerd is a TOP school for Marine Science, but probably doesn't make many generic Top 10 lists. It matters more in the correct field than in US News. A Penn St grad is more likely than a Harvard grad to get employed in our area in engineering. Penn State is the school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 We are still waiting on ds total financial aid, should be getting it soon. Since he'll live at home and already has one scholarship, I'm not worried about tuition. I would like it if he were able to get some more aid to coverage food and transportation expenses. Has anyone sent their student to a school and then had to appeal (fight for) aid every year? I just don't think I have it in me to worry and stress every year about being able to afford to keep him at this school or, worst case, having him begin there and then have to transfer out after a year or two. What drove me crazy last summer is that I won't know my aid until summer. I think it was June last year for returning students. I didn't even know if I'd get enough to continue to attend. I'll be in the same situation this year - most of my scholarships are renewable though. I feel like I'm playing the lottery. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Penn State is the school. Penn State is notorious for being poor with aid. Don'tcha just love that with our "state" flagship? Other states get flagships that are super good with aid. (North Carolina and Virginia come to mind.) :grouphug: 'Tis a terrific school, esp for engineering, but only you/your family can consider if it's worth the cost. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Penn State is notorious for being poor with aid. Don'tcha just love that with our "state" flagship? Other states get flagships that are super good with aid. (North Carolina and Virginia come to mind.) :grouphug: 'Tis a terrific school, esp for engineering, but only you/your family can consider if it's worth the cost. Not here in Illinois. There was a big article in the paper about it not long ago. Due to multiple instances of money mismanagement, our state just doesn't have the money for big scholarships. Every penny is scrutinized and minimal awards are given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveswife Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Penn State is the school. It's sad, but Penn State really doesn't offer much in the way of aid, merit or need-based. My daughter will be attending our local branch campus in the fall, and we were surprised to see she actually received a $1225 scholarship contingent upon her participation in the campus honors program. We didn't expect even a dollar beyond the state grant, as Penn State doesn't give much merit aid to freshmen (unless they are Schreyer Honors College students-$4,500 scholarship or National Merit- $2,000 scholarship). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 But you have reciprocity thru the Midwestern Higher Ed Compact. Some of us dont even have that kind of option. It's funny that you mention this because WTM is the first place I have ever heard of it. Not one person I have spoken with here in IL knew about it. I brought it up to his high school counselor and she wasn't aware of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 That may be bc UIUC is a good enough instate option that many dont consider going to adjacent states. I knew about bc I went to college in the midwest and met people taking advantage of it . That's just it. UIUC isn't that affordable; in-state tuition w/room and board is $30,338. I realize that the 30k is half of what most LACs cost but as a state uni it's fairly high, especially when merit aid is at a premium and state aid is minimal. I just looked at the data for state flag ship tuition on College Board and UIUC is the fourth highest for in-state tuition. Couple that with difficult to earn merit aid and state aid and it's not that affordable for many students. I know students who have been accepted but cannot attend due to lack of financial aid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Penn State is the school. Just double checking that you are aware that you can apply for Pheea grants, right? http://www.pheaa.org/funding-opportunities/state-grant-program/ If you qualify, it's not a ton, but every bit helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 It's sad, but Penn State really doesn't offer much in the way of aid, merit or need-based. My daughter will be attending our local branch campus in the fall, and we were surprised to see she actually received a $1225 scholarship contingent upon her participation in the campus honors program. We didn't expect even a dollar beyond the state grant, as Penn State doesn't give much merit aid to freshmen (unless they are Schreyer Honors College students-$4,500 scholarship or National Merit- $2,000 scholarship). That is what the guy at financial aid said yesterday. He said that even if we qualified, the most we would be given is $5000. My kids did get academic scholarships at the other schools, but they bleed blue and white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Just double checking that you are aware that you can apply for Pheea grants, right? http://www.pheaa.org/funding-opportunities/state-grant-program/ If you qualify, it's not a ton, but every bit helps. We got nothing from them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 They should consider a state school with the reciprocity agreement. Some of those schools may be higher ranked when one looks at individual depts, then if they get instate tuition, its a bargain. Otherwise, it looks from the chart that they should apply to SD. No doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 That is what the guy at financial aid said yesterday. He said that even if we qualified, the most we would be given is $5000. My kids did get academic scholarships at the other schools, but they bleed blue and white. I don't know what your EFC is or if you'd be able to afford to be full pay for both of them for two years, but going to community college with the possibility of transferring to Penn State might be an option. Or go to a low cost OOS public for two years and then apply as a transfer. Not the same as attending all 4 year, but if that's not an option ... I played with Penn's NPC and even for a student with an EFC of $0, the scholarship/grant amount is only 10.6K whether in-state or OOS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I don't know what your EFC is or if you'd be able to afford to be full pay for both of them for two years, but going to community college with the possibility of transferring to Penn State might be an option. Or go to a low cost OOS public for two years and then apply as a transfer. Not the same as attending all 4 year, but if that's not an option ... I played with Penn's NPC and even for a student with an EFC of $0, the scholarship/grant amount is only 10.6K whether in-state or OOS. Many students from school who want Penn St, but can't afford (or necessarily get in to) the main campus at University Park start at one of the satellite campuses and transfer later. Locally, Penn St York is common. This works out better for engineers than cc as the classes at Penn St York will definitely count correctly for engineering. It's still frustrating to those who make it in, but can't really afford the school though. I wish more of our tax dollars went to college aid, both merit and need based. But I'm not Grand Pumba of the Universe yet (not for the state either). Penn St's cost is why it is often less expensive for high academic students in our state to go elsewhere to college. They get either need-based or merit aid with higher value elsewhere (though Pitt can be a contender for merit with high scores too). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I don't know what your EFC is or if you'd be able to afford to be full pay for both of them for two years, but going to community college with the possibility of transferring to Penn State might be an option. Or go to a low cost OOS public for two years and then apply as a transfer. Not the same as attending all 4 year, but if that's not an option ... I played with Penn's NPC and even for a student with an EFC of $0, the scholarship/grant amount is only 10.6K whether in-state or OOS. My kids don't want to go to a cc or do the 2+2. They are stubborn. They would rather rack up the debt than do that. How do you MAKE an 18 yo go to a school that they don't want to? We do not want them to rack up the debt, and are advising them not to, but other than that, it is their decision. They will have to live with the debt that they incur. Only six kids from our school district got into main campus (lots applied). I do think it is funny that two of the six (mine) were educated at home until 8th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I would take that individual's commentary as personal opinion without researching the accuracy of the statement. There are very few fields where the UG school is going to make or break a career. There are a few (apparently finance is one where it seems to come into play according CC), but by and large, it is not a universal truth. FWIW, if it makes you feel any better, all of our kids have had to go the cheap, non-elite public university route. Not one of them has had it hamper their careers or opportunities. Where our ds is currently attending majoring in physics (wayyyy down the totem pole), students have gone on to grad school at Stanford and other top institutions. Our oldest ds is a chemical engineer and started his career making close (not quite, but within just a few thousand dollars) to the posted salaries of grads from top ranked universities for chemE. But, he graduated with zero debt and in the 3 yrs since he graduated, he has been promoted twice and has had significant salary increases. I would definitely think twice about following someone's advice to go deep into debt over education that I didn't know well, no matter what lecture they were giving. The Army was nice enough to pay off 65k of our student loans but we have another 55k sitting out there. You do NOT want to do that to your kids. Our oldest has heard us talk about student loan debt since birth.... It's a heavy weight to place on a kid, especially when you know they want to some day get married, (probably to someone with debt as well) and have children, buy a house, and have a life. It's great advice, "Go to the best school" but at the end of the day a graduate degree from a solid school with no debt is darn near it's weight in gold IMO. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Years ago when dd was applying to college she was awarded the dean's scholarship at one school. It was a nice size scholarship. BUT, those who earned the dean's award were required to live in "honors" housing which was $5000.00 more per year than regular dorms. Quite a little scam they had going. That really turned her off to the school. I've heard a similar story from friends whose son is attending an honors program at a local university which is located literally across the freeway from where both our families live. Even though their son could live at home and commute to school quite easily, the honors program requires that he live in their housing, or his scholarship will be forfeited. It boggles the mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Can they co-op? And can they live off campus? Substantial savings could be had there. Not freshman year. Our plan is to buy a place after for them to live, plus roommates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 My kids don't want to go to a cc or do the 2+2. They are stubborn. They would rather rack up the debt than do that. How do you MAKE an 18 yo go to a school that they don't want to? We do not want them to rack up the debt, and are advising them not to, but other than that, it is their decision. They will have to live with the debt that they incur. Only six kids from our school district got into main campus (lots applied). I do think it is funny that two of the six (mine) were educated at home until 8th grade. I like Creekland's suggestion of a lower cost Penn St campus, and even better if they can commute for two years, and then transfer. As for the debt, your students will be able to take on less than 6K in loans each. Any loans after that will need to be co-signed by the parents. You can't make them attend anywhere, but you can tell them that you can't take the financial risk from the loans. That is your choice. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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