JessReplanted Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Maybe you also want to share your "This is just Crazy!" homeschooling moment too, or maybe you can offer me sage advice.. ~ I used baby's naptime for our Prayer/Bible study/Verse memorization/Read aloud time. We had to do Science and baby was awake. We're using Science in the Beginning - So, I had all 4 kids in the kitchen. Baby (Darling, adorable, toddler) was in the high chair interrupting every 2 1/2 minutes. We got through the experiment but the reading was torture. I feel like it's too simple for my 12 year old, and my 8 year old was completely zoned out. In order for all 3 of them to really learn anything, I feel like I have to repeat everything a zillion times, and try to keep the baby happy at the same time. I was just standing in the kitchen with all of them feeling like homeschooling is just insane. Trying to do science with all of them makes me want to rip my eyeballs out, or just never do science again. Anyone else? Is there a way to make this better? (Besides sending them out to a science class that we can't afford...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacus2 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I have struggled to get science done with Science in the Ancient World this year. The reading is really advanced. Next year I am planning to do NOEO Science, which we did one level of before, but have my oldest complete the Level 2 Physics independently while I do Level 1 Chemistry with the younger 2. It is more expensive, but the majority of the course can be reused for the youngers or resold for a decent price. I would try something independent for your oldest with something simpler and on level for your middle 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 My kids are only 2 years apart and combining them for a subject with the same materials would not have worked. I do not think it is feasible to combine kids with a 4 year age difference (let's leave aside the baby) - it is impossible to have materials that are suitable for all kids with such a big age span. I think the only way to make it better would be to use age appropriate materials for each child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbecueMom Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 No advice, just commiseration. We do interest led science and history and I still want to pull my hair out trying to help them with whatever they're wanting to do. Toddler naps... sort of. Right now his eczema is flaring up and I spend half the nap keeping him from scratching his skin off. Trying to do read alouds when he's around is futile. I have the same, "This is insane, is anyone actually learning anything besides patience?" thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busymama7 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 My kids are only 2 years apart and combining them for a subject with the same materials would not have worked. I do not think it is feasible to combine kids with a 4 year age difference (let's leave aside the baby) - it is impossible to have materials that are suitable for all kids with such a big age span. I think the only way to make it better would be to use age appropriate materials for each child. I don't think this is always true. I have always taught to the oldest with the youngers along for the ride and they learn at their level. But I do A LOT of read aloud so they are used to listening and narrating. Actually sometimes I surprised at how much the younger ones learn and even if they don't rememeber exactly they were exposed to concepts and ideas. We used exploration education for physical science one year and it was very successful. It's designed for multi level. Everyone does the first 3 days together and then the older ones have 2 more days of lessons while the younger ones don't. But even with other programs it works. Babies and toddlers are hard but keep at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I don't think this is always true. I have always taught to the oldest with the youngers along for the ride and they learn at their level. But I do A LOT of read aloud so they are used to listening and narrating. Actually sometimes I surprised at how much the younger ones learn and even if they don't rememeber exactly they were exposed to concepts and ideas. We used exploration education for physical science one year and it was very successful. It's designed for multi level. Everyone does the first 3 days together and then the older ones have 2 more days of lessons while the younger ones don't. But even with other programs it works. Babies and toddlers are hard but keep at it. I have had a great time combining my two in history, science, art, Bible, etc. They only do math and LA at their own levels. Every family & child is different though. In this specific case, I would try to give the 12 year old something at a higher level and semi-independent - perhaps Apologia General Science? And then work with the two middles on SITB. You might need to rotate things and juggle a bit to keep baby occupied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_go_gadget Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Twelve is getting to be old enough for science to really need to start being done somewhat thoroughly, with math, and I do think it would be difficult to fold in a nine year-old and eight year-old for that. Could you separate science into just two sections, one for the twelve year-old and one for the rest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteryJen Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 12 is getting old to do science in a group like that. I would "do" science with the 12 yo and then have related activities that your dude could explain and supervise with the little ones. Mine learned a lot by being in charge of an activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 No advice about the science, and having a baby is one of the reasons why my older kids were put in school, but I did want to share some tips on keeping the baby busy. Check out 1+1+1=1 blog for some ideas on activities for toddlers. There are also lots of links for more ideas. I kept certain toys in the kitchen for when we were working on something in there that dd could play with in her chair (attached to the kitchen island). (Playdoh, Lauri toys, some Discovery toys, etc..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 My name is Kelly. I have eleven kids. I have these moments almost daily. ;) I'll just add I've completely stopped trying to combine age levels. It has a warm, fuzzy ring to it and yet I've never felt warm or fuzzy while pulling my hair out. Odd, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busymama7 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 My name is Kelly. I have eleven kids. I have these moments almost daily. ;)I'll just add I've completely stopped trying to combine age levels. It has a warm, fuzzy ring to it and yet I've never felt warm or fuzzy while pulling my hair out. Odd, yes? So what do you use? A strict textbook approach? Something like abeka? Just thinking that if you aren't doing things together they must be reading a textbook and filling in blanks/answering questions and taking tests? I've been tempted to go that route but when we've dabbled in that approach we've hated it. And I'm not sure with all that grading it would be easier on me but I am really curious how you make it work :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto10blessings Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Oh my gosh! Yes, this is my life. A 4 month old and 2 toddlers? Reading aloud doesn't happen when they are with us. At least not more than a picture book. Science is read on their own once they can read and the younger kids narrate after each reading. Labs and experiments happen after dad is home at night or on the weekend when dad can take the babes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Oh yes! I am so used to the noise & chaos that I plow through but then usually stop & think-this is nuts! Who can learn with all this racket? No solutions. I am trying to figure this out as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 :grouphug: :grouphug: are you trying to do science every day or 3X a week or once a week or ???? outside the box, could you do science on saturdays/sundays while dad has some great toddler time? or with dad? (we do all experiments on the weekends, more because dh loves it than for any other good reason) if you split them, could you do science with dude while sunshine and sugarplum are with buttercup? and then do science with sunshine and sugarplum while dude is with buttercup? or could you switch it up and do read aloud at a meal time (i used to read at breakfast) - i like having the littles there to be read to, and others can cuddle them/feed them while i read if that's what it takes. for a while, i read with them in bed first thing in the morning. and bible study/verse memorization could happen with dude and then with sunshine and sugarplum while the other(s) had buttercup. i have also been known to do memory work outside, while some play and others come and sit by me. hth, ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 So what do you use? A strict textbook approach? Something like abeka? Just thinking that if you aren't doing things together they must be reading a textbook and filling in blanks/answering questions and taking tests? Why? Why can't a middle grades child simply read normal books and talk about it with you, create an independent project to present to the family? We have never done a single worksheet or filled in blanks, and I never gave a science or history test before high school. A child who has learned to read can learn BY reading. Worksheets and fill-in-the-blank are busy work and unnecessary for learning. My kids always got a kick out of presenting to the family (and friends) what they learned. Stack of library books and a few websites - few weeks later we got fabulous talks with visuals about the solar system or the evolution of the whale or the battle of Thermopylae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busymama7 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Why? Why can't a middle grades child simply read normal books and talk about it with you, create an independent project to present to the family? We have never done a single worksheet or filled in blanks, and I never gave a science or history test before high school. A child who has learned to read can learn BY reading. Worksheets and fill-in-the-blank are busy work and unnecessary for learning. My kids always got a kick out of presenting to the family (and friends) what they learned. Stack of library books and a few websites - few weeks later we got fabulous talks with visuals about the solar system or the evolution of the whale or the battle of Thermopylae. That's wonderful! I was just thinking aloud :) this is more like our style. I just seem to hear from moms with large families who do all textbooks if they aren't doing school together. I was just curious how the pp was approaching it. I love the presentation idea. That has always been my weak point (the follow up) as my kids did do most of their learning from reading but I havent been great about having them do something with the info besides written or oral narrations. That's why I feel they learned more when we worked as a group. Since we would discuss and I would ask questions etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbecueMom Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Why? Why can't a middle grades child simply read normal books and talk about it with you, create an independent project to present to the family? We have never done a single worksheet or filled in blanks, and I never gave a science or history test before high school. A child who has learned to read can learn BY reading. Worksheets and fill-in-the-blank are busy work and unnecessary for learning. My kids always got a kick out of presenting to the family (and friends) what they learned. Stack of library books and a few websites - few weeks later we got fabulous talks with visuals about the solar system or the evolution of the whale or the battle of Thermopylae. Mine aren't middle grades, but even independent, interest led learning is really hard with a toddler or baby. They pull library books out of hands or off shelves (while in the stroller or carrier) and throw and chew on them. They bang on doors when someone is trying to read or put a project together. They tear up paper models and knock over homemade barometers (see how our week is going?). They find every little scrap and piece and marker left out. They need quiet rocking and nursing when the older child is bursting with something cool to show or tell mom. They make tougher or colder or hotter hikes difficult. They run toward roads or creeks when bird or cloud watching. They scream bloody murder because they can't stand on the stove or play with knives while cooking (DS likes to study a country and make some of their cultural dishes). Interest led learning is far more structured yet chaotic than I ever wanted it to be, because toddler. Sure, it will pass, but I feel like we're wasting an entire year (or more) renewing library books we've already read because it's too hard to drag a cranky 1yo out of the house, or spending nap time too exhausted from being up half the night to help the older kids with their ideas and interests. I know they're learning, but when we're all gritting our teeth out of our skulls trying to ignore the drooling, biting, screaming, babbling, book walking, and lap jumping, I do start to question what the heck I was thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I love the presentation idea. That has always been my weak point (the follow up) as my kids did do most of their learning from reading but I havent been great about having them do something with the info besides written or oral narrations. That's why I feel they learned more when we worked as a group. Since we would discuss and I would ask questions etc. You can still have a conversation about what they learned - it does not have to be during scheduled "school time" while working together. It can be when you are out on a walk or at dinner or while cooking together, simply by saying "Hey, anything interesting you learned when you read about the Vikings yesterday?" and take it from there. I often have my kids tell me interesting things they learned, when I did not have time to read everything myself - it was just important to make sure that this is a conversation and not an interrogation to check up on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Mine aren't middle grades, but even independent, interest led learning is really hard with a toddler or baby. They pull library books out of hands or off shelves (while in the stroller or carrier) and throw and chew on them. They bang on doors when someone is trying to read or put a project together. They tear up paper models and knock over homemade barometers (see how our week is going?). They find every little scrap and piece and marker left out. They need quiet rocking and nursing when the older child is bursting with something cool to show or tell mom. They make tougher or colder or hotter hikes difficult. They run toward roads or creeks when bird or cloud watching. They scream bloody murder because they can't stand on the stove or play with knives while cooking (DS likes to study a country and make some of their cultural dishes). Interest led learning is far more structured yet chaotic than I ever wanted it to be, because toddler. Sure, it will pass, but I feel like we're wasting an entire year (or more) renewing library books we've already read because it's too hard to drag a cranky 1yo out of the house, or spending nap time too exhausted from being up half the night to help the older kids with their ideas and interests. I know they're learning, but when we're all gritting our teeth out of our skulls trying to ignore the drooling, biting, screaming, babbling, book walking, and lap jumping, I do start to question what the heck I was thinking. Oh, I completely believe you. You definitely have your hands full. But the point is: all your kids are young, which makes it more difficult. "Interest led" for a 5 y/o still requires a lot more direct parental involvement than "interest led" for a 12 y/o - which was the OP's situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessReplanted Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Mine aren't middle grades, but even independent, interest led learning is really hard with a toddler or baby. They pull library books out of hands or off shelves (while in the stroller or carrier) and throw and chew on them. They bang on doors when someone is trying to read or put a project together. They tear up paper models and knock over homemade barometers (see how our week is going?). They find every little scrap and piece and marker left out. They need quiet rocking and nursing when the older child is bursting with something cool to show or tell mom. They make tougher or colder or hotter hikes difficult. They run toward roads or creeks when bird or cloud watching. They scream bloody murder because they can't stand on the stove or play with knives while cooking (DS likes to study a country and make some of their cultural dishes). Interest led learning is far more structured yet chaotic than I ever wanted it to be, because toddler. Sure, it will pass, but I feel like we're wasting an entire year (or more) renewing library books we've already read because it's too hard to drag a cranky 1yo out of the house, or spending nap time too exhausted from being up half the night to help the older kids with their ideas and interests. I know they're learning, but when we're all gritting our teeth out of our skulls trying to ignore the drooling, biting, screaming, babbling, book walking, and lap jumping, I do start to question what the heck I was thinking. Yes. Yes. Yes. Life has become a string of never ending disruptions, and I feel insane whenever I try to accomplish anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrygal Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Yes. Yes. Yes. Life has become a string of never ending disruptions, and I feel insane whenever I try to accomplish anything. I am looking for a solution to this problem as well. Especially read alouds. The older children and I get impatient with constant interruptions (like every 30 seconds!) I would think the 12 year old could do some independent work, maybe hiding in his room?? My oldest is 9 and not a strong independent reader (dyslexic) so he can't do anything on his own it seems. Sorry I am of no help... just in the same boat you are. Somebody is always screaming, fighting over toys or who sits on mom's lap, crying, or the 2 year old is yelling "NO READING!!!" and tackling me for the book. sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busymama7 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I wanted to offer some ideas that might help those who are struggling with this. Kinda some random ideas in no particular order. Be consistent. Really really consistent. This does 2 things. It helps the toddlers get used to the routine and expectations for behavior. And little daily chunks mean more material is covered then cramming when the baby is finally cooperating for the first time all week. Read while the kids are eating. We did this for scripture time before the kids were old enough to take turns reading. Be very strict with naps. My kids are down to one afternoon nap at 12-15 months. It is at 1:00. At 1:05 we gather for read aloud. ;). They nap until age 5-6 but that is because we don't have early bedtimes due to older kids activities. When they really think they are old enough to give up naps they have to prove to me that they can behave during read aloud or they are sent back. The entire house observes quiet time from 1-3:30 or 4. Elementary ages must be alone on a bed or couch until 2:30 then they may play together or outside as long as the house remains quiet. If I'm running errands and the bigger kids still have school they will occasionally put in a movie for them. I do not usually do anything for school during this one except read aloud and listen to early readers. Older kids read or study. I often need a nap due to pregnancy so don't plan to do heavy school during this time. We do morning time and have for years before it was called that :). This is the time when must really work on the behavior of the toddlers. We have done various things including play pens or just taking it outside to the grass. Toddler runs around outside and everyone else gathers around me on a blanket. Most of the time though we are in te family room and preschoolers and toddlers have a blanket to sit on a play with a bucket of toys. Ones without batteries :/ at first (and after breaks) I don't intend to accomplish much during this time except working with the little ones to remind them of how to behave. I have an older child do the reading and lead the songs etc so I can sit on the floor and play with the toddler and remind them to stay on the blanket. We keep it very short so it is a positive experience and slowly work up. By 2 they are able to sit and play for a good 45 mins while we get scriptures and memory work and music and history etc done efficiently. After morning time we do table time and the toddlers color or do other table activities or roam and play. The current 4-5 year old is usually leading the play and keeping an eye on them. But I have the house set up that they can't really go outside my eyesight. Often they go outside. The last hour before lunch when the elementary and down are done with school and i need to concentrate on the older ones they watch Magic schop bus or krat brothers unless they are playing well. And I don't have guilt about this. It's really ok. I know I said no order but this is really #1. Like truly the most effective thing I have found. Get the kids outside and doing physically activity before starting school. Especially the 1-4 year olds whom you need to settle so you can focus on the older ones. I prefer a morning walk/bike ride but the trampoline is also great when I can't get me and the baby out the door. If you have some high energy kids this is just really needed. Don't think your morning is late and you can skip it. School won't be as effective if you do. Other than morning time reading I don't try to do reading aloud with a 2 year old. That's just a recipe for disaster. I hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busymama7 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I should add that I do read to toddlers. But board books and picture books and not during school time. Usually before bed. My current 2 year old LOVES to be read to. But reading a chapter book to the older kids with him around would not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Combine 7 and 9. Separate out the 12 yo. Your day will be longer, but well...homeschooling is a full time job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I HATED science for this very reason. The little kid always wanted to be in the midst of everything "helping" and it turned to chaos quickly. I am starting to think we may be successful with a science program with experiments next year and my youngest will be 8!!! I farmed out science for my 10 year old this year and all my 14 year old ds has to do is growl at the interruptor when he's doing his experiments and he gets to be alone with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Mine aren't middle grades, but even independent, interest led learning is really hard with a toddler or baby. They pull library books out of hands or off shelves (while in the stroller or carrier) and throw and chew on them. They bang on doors when someone is trying to read or put a project together. They tear up paper models and knock over homemade barometers (see how our week is going?). They find every little scrap and piece and marker left out. They need quiet rocking and nursing when the older child is bursting with something cool to show or tell mom. They make tougher or colder or hotter hikes difficult. They run toward roads or creeks when bird or cloud watching. They scream bloody murder because they can't stand on the stove or play with knives while cooking (DS likes to study a country and make some of their cultural dishes). Interest led learning is far more structured yet chaotic than I ever wanted it to be, because toddler. Sure, it will pass, but I feel like we're wasting an entire year (or more) renewing library books we've already read because it's too hard to drag a cranky 1yo out of the house, or spending nap time too exhausted from being up half the night to help the older kids with their ideas and interests. I know they're learning, but when we're all gritting our teeth out of our skulls trying to ignore the drooling, biting, screaming, babbling, book walking, and lap jumping, I do start to question what the heck I was thinking. This is my life!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitofthewomb Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Yes. Yes. Yes. Life has become a string of never ending disruptions, and I feel insane whenever I try to accomplish anything. Oh yes! Me too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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