College for an Irish dancer

[maize]

Will you humor me here? My oldest is only 11, so some years yet from college. She's a pretty single-minded kind of kid though, and I strongly suspect that the path she is currently on is not going to change unless there is some drastic change in circumstances (such as a debilitating injury).

 

DD loves Irish dance, it is all she wants to do--she will hurry through her school work so she has more time to practice and condition. She is not exceptionally talented, but I expect her dedication to pay off over time. She has expressed an interest in teaching over performing as an adult. She is not much interested in other dance forms, though I recently signed her up for ballet classes with the idea of building over all better dance technique.

 

I'm wondering what kinds of college options we should be exploring, both in terms of schools (good Irish studio nearby since most schools don't actually teach this form of dance) and more importantly majors and degree plans. I want my kids to do things they love, but I also want them to have practical career options. I doubt DD will want to major in dance; unless her current interests shift significantly, the dance styles taught in university programs are not of great interest to her. I've wondered about other programs that could tie in and enhance her capabilities as a dancer and teacher while also providing decent earnings potential outside of dance. Something related to athletic training or maybe physical therapy? I could also imagine her doing something like speech pathology, she is a people person and likes to help others.

 

Right now I'd like to cast the idea net wide, so if this background sparks any thoughts or ideas please let me know!

[Teachin'Mine]

Honestly there are likely very few 11 yos who would prefer academics over any sport or activity that they are passionate about.   Some highly selective colleges have step dancing clubs and you can google for some names, but Notre Dame and Boston College come to mind.  I'd encourage her in her dancing and in her academics as she's young and you never know where her interests will be seven years from now.  I'd try to keep all the doors open for now.

[Lori D.]

Totally agree with Teachin' Mine about how much students change in the teen years and throughout high school. :) But, to also give you some ideas to explore… here you go:

 

 

Since teaching Irish dance is pretty specialized, perhaps consider an Associate's degree in an area that would earn a decent wage? An AAS degree is cheaper and faster to earn, and is a straight "degree-to-work" type of higher education and training.

 

Your ideas of becoming a tech/assistant in physical therapy, athletic training or speech pathology would be great ideas, and very feasible. For example, a homeschooler who graduated with one of my DS's LOVES dance and she teaches some dance classes, but also recently completed an AAS in massage therapy, which allows her to set her own hours and supplement the very meager earnings from teaching dance.

 

I just did a quick search on the OOH website (US Bureau of Labor's Occupational Outlook Handbook), with the parameters of median pay = $35K-$55K/year, and entry-level education = Associate's Degree, and here are the 21 results; of those, additional ideas of "helping others" jobs include: Cardiovascular Tech, Diagnostic Sonographer, Medical and Clinical Lab Tech, Occupational Therapy Assistant, Physical Therapy Aide/Assistant, and Radiologic Tech.

 

A few jobs that require just a certificate or on-the-job training (and also earn less), and that help people include massage therapist, dental lab tech, optician.

 

Some AAS degree jobs are going to be less flexible in hours, or require working full time, which might make it more difficult to balance that job with getting to teach dance.

 

Similarly, a number of the "helping others" jobs require at least a Bachelor's degree, and would probably necessitate working full time to maintain the job that would be gained through the Bachelor's. Athletic trainer requires a Bachelor's degree; the Speech & Hearing Pathologist positions require a Master's degree; an Optometrist or Chiropractor position requires a Doctor or Professional degree.

 

Just throwing out some thoughts and ideas to help you brainstorm. :) BEST of luck as you and DD do some beginning career exploration! There are more links and resource ideas for general career exploration at the bottom of post #5 of the big pinned thread at the top of the high school board: "Transcripts, Credits… Career Exploration -- links to past threads here!" Warmest regards, Lori D.

[maize]

Thank you for the ideas, and I will explore the thread linked above.

 

Yes, I know things can change ... right now though my mom sense is telling me this particular kid is pretty locked in. I do expect each of my children to get at least a 4 year degree and preferably a masters, and while I support her 100% in dancing I want something more practical as well. Getting an associates while in highschool is possible in this area, and I will look into some of those suggested. It would be nice if the two could somehow dovetail together :) She's strong academically, I definitely plan to keep all doors open.

 

I had very little in the way of academic or career guidance, and was clueless about most of the options that were out there. I'd like to do better in that respect with my own kids.

[Murmer]

BYU has a folk dance major that (last I heard) did have some irish dancing....it was not exclusively irish and I don't think the program was more than beg/int and advance classes but it might be an option.  I don't know about close local studios but Utah has a ridiculous amount of dance studios so might be worth the look...but I recommend checking the thread about nonLDS students going to BYU.

[maize]

BYU has a folk dance major that (last I heard) did have some irish dancing....it was not exclusively irish and I don't think the program was more than beg/int and advance classes but it might be an option.  I don't know about close local studios but Utah has a ridiculous amount of dance studios so might be worth the look...but I recommend checking the thread about nonLDS students going to BYU.

 

We are LDS and BYU will definitely be high on our college list.

 

I don't know about the folk dance major... it is a possibility, but wouldn't really contribute to an Irish dance teaching career--the path to that is basically through training with an experienced teacher and taking certification exams; most seem to spend some time assistant teaching before trying for certification. I expect her to want to keep dancing through college, and she might enjoy being in a folk dance ensemble. 

[Lori D.]

Getting an associates while in high school is possible in this area, and I will look into some of those suggested. It would be nice if the two could somehow dovetail together :)

 

Yes, that dual enrollment and knocking out part or all of an Associate's or transfer credits while still in high school can be an awesome option for students! :)

 

 

 She's strong academically, I definitely plan to keep all doors open.

 

Yea! That's all to the good then, of getting a Bachelor's rather than an Associate's. :) I just mentioned the AAS route, as a Bachelor's is just not workable for all students at all times. :)

 

 

I had very little in the way of academic or career guidance, and was clueless about most of the options that were out there. I'd like to do better in that respect with my own kids.

 

Same here. One of the best things I stumbled on in my mid-20s (I had already earned a Bachelor's) was a local career counselor, who walked me through the Meyer's Briggs Personality Inventory, the Strong-Campbell Interest Survey, and one other test, and it REALLY helped me to understand my personal interests, strengths, and ways of working that has helped me maximize my joy and abilities in all the variety of jobs I've done over the years. :)

 

 

BEST of luck -- and who knows what unexpected options and opportunities will sudden pop up 5, 6, 7 years from now that may be the very best thing right when needed. Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Murmer]

You could have her try the BYU folk dance summer camp to see if she likes the other stuff they do.  

If this is still her path when it is time to think about college, I wouldn't consider a degree in dance, I'd think about a degree in Sports Management.  She'll have plenty of experience in the dancing itself, but running a studio, and managing a small business is an entirely different skill set.  There's an accreditation agency for sports management that accredits programs throughout the country, and I'd use that as a starting point.

[chiguirre]

11 is young but Trinqueta is also pretty determined to study econ or business. It might be because both DH and I have MBAs but it's also because she really enjoys the subject. So Maize I don't think it's crazy to start looking at possible schools and requirements.

[maize]

If this is still her path when it is time to think about college, I wouldn't consider a degree in dance, I'd think about a degree in Sports Management. She'll have plenty of experience in the dancing itself, but running a studio, and managing a small business is an entirely different skill set. There's an accreditation agency for sports management that accredits programs throughout the country, and I'd use that as a starting point.

Thank you! This is exactly the kind of idea I am looking for, I am not familiar with sports management at all, but I can see how it could tie in nicely to her dance interest.

[maize]

11 is young but Trinqueta is also pretty determined to study econ or business. It might be because both DH and I have MBAs but it's also because she really enjoys the subject. So Maize I don't think it's crazy to start looking at possible schools and requirements.

I have a sister who was passionate about music from a very young age. My dad, while supporting her lessons etc., spent much of her high school years trying to convince her not to major in music as he thought it too impractical. She ended up with undergraduate and graduate degrees in music performance, and her career has been in the music world. So I've seen that some kids really do know where their life's passion lies quite early on. My gut feeling about this daughter is that her interest in dance is going to be much more than a phase; I've seen the way it just clicked and became part of her like it is who she was always meant to be.

 

Since Irish dance is not something any college major is built around, and since I do expect her to get a degree, it seems that exploring complementary options is a good idea.

[Hoggirl]

My ds has a friend who is an Irish dancer who is majoring in biology. I asked her about this last night and she said that her school (Loyola of Chicago), Notre Dame, and University of Dayton all had Irish dance clubs. These are all Catholic schools - I don't know how that would impact you. One thing she did suggest was to research area studios as you are exploring colleges to find out how nearby they are. She is very dedicated but says the hour it takes her to *get* to the private studio way out in the suburbs is somewhat of a challenge with her college studies.

[Tokyomarie]

I agree with others about finding a college major that is complementary. Unless her dance horizons broaden and she decides she's happy to pursue other dance forms, too, it doesn't seem like a dance major in college would be a good fit. On the other hand, if she wants to continue to pursue Irish dance and, perhaps, study and perform with some bigger names in the Irish dance world, she might consider going to college in an area with a large Irish music & culture community. Chicago and Boston especially come to mind. New York City could also be a good choice. She could study & perform Irish dance outside of class while in college for a different major. Looking back, I think I might have encouraged this for the Irish musician in my family but only realized, in hindsight, that if she wanted to follow her Irish music passion, it would have been best for her to be in one of the above cities.

[maize]

My ds has a friend who is an Irish dancer who is majoring in biology. I asked her about this last night and she said that her school (Loyola of Chicago), Notre Dame, and University of Dayton all had Irish dance clubs. These are all Catholic schools - I don't know how that would impact you. One thing she did suggest was to research area studios as you are exploring colleges to find out how nearby they are. She is very dedicated but says the hour it takes her to *get* to the private studio way out in the suburbs is somewhat of a challenge with her college studies.

 

 

Thank you, distance to a quality studio is a good thing to consider. 

 

We're an hour for dd's current studio, and if it weren't for being able to carpool at least some of the time I don't know how we would make it work!

[maize]

I agree with others about finding a college major that is complementary. Unless her dance horizons broaden and she decides she's happy to pursue other dance forms, too, it doesn't seem like a dance major in college would be a good fit. On the other hand, if she wants to continue to pursue Irish dance and, perhaps, study and perform with some bigger names in the Irish dance world, she might consider going to college in an area with a large Irish music & culture community. Chicago and Boston especially come to mind. New York City could also be a good choice. She could study & perform Irish dance outside of class while in college for a different major. Looking back, I think I might have encouraged this for the Irish musician in my family but only realized, in hindsight, that if she wanted to follow her Irish music passion, it would have been best for her to be in one of the above cities.

 

Boston might be a good option, we have family there which would be nice for dd since it is far from home.

[Daria]

While a dance major might not be a good fit, it might make sense for her to study in a place with a robust dance curriculum.  Even if she doesn't take ballet or modern or other dance forms, she might find that classes like anatomy for the dance student are helpful.  If she studies something like athletic training, or performing arts management, or pre-physical therapy, being in a setting where many of the other students are double majoring with dance might bring the dance perspective into her classes more than you'd see at another school.

 

[maize]

While a dance major might not be a good fit, it might make sense for her to study in a place with a robust dance curriculum.  Even if she doesn't take ballet or modern or other dance forms, she might find that classes like anatomy for the dance student are helpful.  If she studies something like athletic training, or performing arts management, or pre-physical therapy, being in a setting where many of the other students are double majoring with dance might bring the dance perspective into her classes more than you'd see at another school.

 

This is a good thought. I do think she would benefit from anatomy and kinesiology classes; Irish dance has an unfortunate record when it comes to injuries, and learning more about how the body works would be beneficial.

[TechWife]

A business degree in marketing or management will help her if she has any inkling of managing or owning a studio of her own one day. It will also help her with the business aspects of her work if she takes teaching jobs as an independent contractor, as she will have to manage her own finances and promote herself to various studio owners, parents and others. 

[Kiara.I]

One of our local step-dancing teacher had a physiotherapist (or kinesiologist?  Not sure...) come in an watch a number of classes, making notes on what muscles/skills were required.  She then went away and put together a conditioning program, to both form the muscles and skills required, AND their opposing muscle groups, so as to balance the body and lead to better health and development overall.

This meant that the teacher went from yelling at 6-year-old "TURN OUT YOUR TOES!" to realizing that those particular 6-year-olds *couldn't*, because they didn't have the right muscles developed, and being able to give them targeted exercises to do to *build* them.

 

So if she wants to be an amazing dance instructor, having that background would be helpful.  Kinesiology or physiotherapy might be good.

 

Another thing to consider is that if she wants to be a teacher, basic small business skills are going to be important.  Maybe not an MBA, but an associates degree in business or some related field might be good.

 

And...what will her hours be like?  Teaching Irish dance will be mostly after school hours and on weekends.  If you're looking for other marketable career paths for her, they need to fit in well during school hours so that she's free in the afternoons/evenings and on weekends.  That, I think, might limit her ability to do set-your-own-hours things like massage therapy and whatnot because many of those clients would want evening and weekend hours.

[Murmer]

I did the dance off campus thing for almost all 4 years of BYU and found it not too bad.  I read/did homework on the bus.  The only hard part was making sure all my classes ended early enough in the day since most studios cater to after public school times and college classes go all day.  I found it beneficial and really made me figure time management out really fast!  It also got me out of the bubble!  

[hillfarm]

I did a lot of folk dance performing in college and throughout my 20's, and made pretty decent money at it. However, it is definitely sporadic and it does help to be in a metropolitan area with lots of ethnic communities and organizations. My major was unrelated. However, several years later, I became a licensed massage therapist. This definitely helped me as a dancer, enabled me to barter for lots of cool opportunities with other dancers (seminars, trips, high profile gigs, etc.), and in many ways, gave me an automatic pool of potential clients - since other dancers were always getting injured and seeking a therapist who was familiar with the physical demands of their art.

 

What I later learned is that massage therapy (and I assume similarly physical therapy, kinesiology, etc.) is tremendously flexible and can be applied many different client groups. For example, when I began to think about having children, I took some additional classes and specialized in pediatric massage for a time. Your dd could focus on sports application, therapeutic and rehab, seniors, pediatric, or whatever. So it could go hand in hand with her dance career or could be a separate backup that would allow her to follow other interests simultaneously or to take advantage of lucrative markets that could enable her to build up a dance school. Training in these other health fields would also be a plus that could attract parents to bring their children to her school. (We have significant training in exercise physiology and are focused on introducing dance in a way that enhances your child's natural physical development, rather than in a risky way that can result in untimely injuries.)

 

And of course, should her interest in dance ever wane, these health related fields usually have plenty of job openings in most areas. Many of these specialties have licensure requirements. She could take off a few years to raise her dc and, as long as she has kept up with the required CEU's, she could jump back in whenever she was ready.

[Daria]

One of the local ballet schools in my area has a program that's run in tandem by the ballet school and a local physical therapist, which uses ballet as a form of physical therapy for little kids with disabilities.  They have the middle school and high school students from their regular ballet classes come in and work as 1:1 partners.  The kids with the most significant physical disabilities dance wearing harnesses that are suspended from tracks on the ceiling, so that they can dance, and move from place to place, and spin and twirl, even if they can't stand up on their own.  

[Plink]

If she plans to open her own studio, I'd lean toward business management as a major.

 

BUT

 

For now I wouldn't push, lean, or even encourage long term plans in a passion field for a kid that age. I wouldn't want to spoil their fun by turning it into work.

[Rebel Yell]

A business degree in marketing or management will help her if she has any inkling of managing or owning a studio of her own one day. It will also help her with the business aspects of her work if she takes teaching jobs as an independent contractor, as she will have to manage her own finances and promote herself to various studio owners, parents and others. 

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

YES, THIS!

 

Diamond will have her Associate's in Small Business Management in May...  She is already teaching dance.  Most studios we know of are just fine on the dance education, but somewhere between annoying and abysmal on the business end. :glare:

[maize]

If she plans to open her own studio, I'd lean toward business management as a major.

 

BUT

 

For now I wouldn't push, lean, or even encourage long term plans in a passion field for a kid that age. I wouldn't want to spoil their fun by turning it into work.

This one's got the pushing side of things all tied up, there would be no room for me to contribute if I tried :) I'm just trying to keep up and keep things in perspective (no, you can't skip schoolwork to get in more dance practice. Yes, it is better for your body to rest every now and then...)

 

Business management of some kind would definitely be helpful, business savvy (especially marketing) is obviously lacking at her current studio.

[LizzyBee]

My 13 yo also wants to be an ID teacher. We are going to start on grades this year if we can find any locations close enough. Last year, they were offered at the Nation's Capitol feis, so we are hoping they will be again. The grades are currently not required to become a TCRG if the teacher has enough experience (our teacher traveled with Riverdance and other productions, so he was able to sub that instead of doing grades). But they will be mandatory effective 1/1/18.  http://www.clrg.ie/documents/GradeSyllabus2015.pdf

 

She has considered other options for a "day job" but so far, she hasn't found something else she wants to do. She wants to own a studio, so I told her she should plan on getting an associates degree in Business Management at an absolute minimum. We've also looked at which colleges have ID teams, but I haven't compiled a list yet since we're still 5 years away from college. If she has an opportunity to perform, I wouldn't be opposed to delaying college. However, as much as she loves performing, she wants to teach rather than performing professionally.