Tell me about charter schools in CA please

[ExcitedMama]

DS will be eligible for K in the fall so I've been looking into online charter schools in order to get the funds to pay for extra-curriculars like lessons. It seems like the way to go since otherwise you have to give the materials back. Is it worth the hassle? Any advice or experience? Thanks so much!

[anabelneri]

I don't know about online charter schools.  We're with Ocean Grove, which is one of the IEM charter schools here in CA.  There are three of them (see here: http://ieminc.org/index.php/education). We register with the school, and they pay for classes, curriculum, materials, etc. in return for us "jumping through the hoops" that help them maintain the charter.  The hoops we jump through are meetings with our Educational Specialist every 20 school days (about 1/month), taking state tests, and doing a writing sample each year.  There is also an assessment at the beginning and end of the year, but I'm not entirely sure if they're completely necessary.  I get to choose the classes, materials, etc. off the vendor list (which is all secular), and I can request for new vendors to be added if I find something exciting.  This year we get $1000/semester/child.  As long as my kids are doing Ok I have complete freedom with that money... my girls this year are getting French tutoring, ballet classes, and a writing tutor.  In the past I've bought Right Start, MCT, Peace Hill Press, and all kinds of things from Rainbow Resource.  We get to keep anything that is consumable, and eventually we need to return anything that isn't.  As long as I have one child enrolled I can keep all the materials I've bought through them, even if we aren't using them that year.  It's a bit of a pain to have to turn things in, but it's great when I want to declutter my homeschool stuff. :)

 

HTH!

:)

Anabel

[Laurel-in-CA]

1) K is not mandatory in CA. You don't have to put your kid in school and you can study/do whatever you want. My advice would be to just have fun, practice writing numbers and letters, do basic math/reading skills, and read whatever strikes you/what you want to share with your kid from the library. Don't put on the straitjacket before you have to. Have fun with your kid first.

 

2) Charter schools can be very different in personality, requirements, funds offered, etc. You need to find which ones serve your county, what they would expect you to do in terms of recordkeeping/samples/meetings/meeting locations, what classes or enrichment they offer and where (is their site a comfortable commute for you), what their funding and borrowing/return policies are, etc. Only some of this can be found out online. If you can find a homeschool group near your home, go hang out with them and see what the ladies there know.

 

3) I know it can seem like a big payday when you see the funds a charter makes available, but every charter will have restrictions on what you can buy and from whom, what vendors/classes they offer, how detailed their recordkeeping expectations may be, and not just state testing once/year but also placement testing, progress testing, computerized assessments, etc. Many charters now not only require state testing in order to participate the following year, but also require computerized assessments at least twice a year and sometimes more often. Some expect you to hit CC/state objectives for that particular grade level in your monthly recordkeeping. Don't just look at the paycheck; look at what it costs you in terms of time and freedom. We were in one charter that expected us to follow district curriculum and standards as well as participate in an on-campus enrichment day that was geared about 3 grade levels below where my daughter was working...but please don't tell us if you're doing latin or logic, thank you very much. On the other hand, some will order you any grade level you want provided you show your kiddo is working at that level.

 

4) The money for lessons is nice. That's what we spent the majority of our funds on, and my dd's art lessons were invaluable in helping her qualify for a scholarship to art school. My ds was able to ceramics, which he is still doing very well and for fun at community college. Just count the cost before you sign up.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I'm curious about this too.  I've always avoided charters because i don't want to give up our freedom, but $4000 a year would be awesome, and I would jump through quite a few hoops for that!  Laurel, is there a charter up in our neck of the woods that you've used and liked ok?

[Roadrunner]

I'm curious about this too.  I've always avoided charters because i don't want to give up our freedom, but $4000 a year would be awesome, and I would jump through quite a few hoops for that!  Laurel, is there a charter up in our neck of the woods that you've used and liked ok?

 

We have sold our souls to a charter this year for that $4K. 

I can tell you that in our case the change is mostly psychological. I don't feel free even though on a daily basis my like hasn't changed at all. I school the same as I did last year. My ES (educational specialist) is a wonderful lady that comes and enjoys tea and cookies with me once a month while I get to showcase my kids' work. She seems to be the only one in my life I can share little achievements and disappointments and talk about future plans. Overall I look forward to her coming since I think of her as a friend at this point. Testing is there, but I don't mind it. My kids are ahead, so for me it's a reassurance that we are doing fine. Love the money. We are getting to do some things we didn't last year. I am planning on having my younger ride horses (he loves, loves horses), an activity I couldn't even dream about affording without the money from the charter. So in our financial situation, I can't easily turn it down.

What do I hate? I still feel like I need to conform to their schedule. Example. If I want to travel for several months, I would need to drop out from our charter since ES has to meet with you once every 20 days. It's an imaginary situation since I don't plan on traveling, but it still feels less free. I feel constrained in some imaginary way. 

 

 

Check to see who is the provider for a given charter in your area. If you don't have many, the funds aren't worth it as much since textbooks need to be returned. 

[Ellie]

DS will be eligible for K in the fall so I've been looking into online charter schools in order to get the funds to pay for extra-curriculars like lessons. It seems like the way to go since otherwise you have to give the materials back. Is it worth the hassle? Any advice or experience? Thanks so much!

 

Since kindergarten is not compulsory in California. I would not recommend officially enrolling a 5yo anywhere.

 

Furthermore, you should be aware that charter schools, whether they are home-based (including on-line programs) or classroom-based are public schools. Students enrolled in charter schools are considered public school students, not private school students, and so must comply with attendance and testing requirements, plus any other random requirements for content that classroom-based schools must comply with.

 

Personally, I would not give up the freedom to choose my own educational methods and practices in return for money from the state. As a private homeschooler, I get to pay for what I want to with my children, and I don't ever have to test or keep track of attendance or answer to an outside authority of any kind. 

[Roadrunner]

Since kindergarten is not compulsory in California. I would not recommend officially enrolling a 5yo anywhere.

 

Furthermore, you should be aware that charter schools, whether they are home-based (including on-line programs) or classroom-based are public schools. Students enrolled in charter schools are considered public school students, not private school students, and so must comply with attendance and testing requirements, plus any other random requirements for content that classroom-based schools must comply with.

 

Personally, I would not give up the freedom to choose my own educational methods and practices in return for money from the state. As a private homeschooler, I get to pay for what I want to with my children, and I don't ever have to test or keep track of attendance or answer to an outside authority of any kind. 

 

Having done it both ways, it really is a fantom difference. 

 

Just wanted to add that high school is another story. The hoops in high school are real. 

[anabelneri]

 

Just wanted to add that high school is another story. The hoops in high school are real. 

 

I've looked at the high school requirements, and there is no way I'm making my kid jump through all those hoops.  Our plan is to pull them out with they hit 9th grade. 

 

I've had a lot of conversations through the years with folks about how "worth it" the money is.  I have a friend who has been homeschooling for 20+ years, and these options didn't exist then.  She is extremely clear that the hoops aren't worth it.  But I notice that they have enough money in the family for her kids to take classes, so they're not hurting.  She is also an amazing organizer and handily takes care of her kids different needs and interests in very frugal ways.  She's quite inspiring to talk to.

 

I've talked to people who have enough money that the $2000/child is only a drop in the bucket of what they spend on homeschooling, so it's not worth it.  Let's remember that I'm in Silicon Valley, where people who look middle class probably earn $200,000+/year.

 

I'm in the situation where we've been barely making ends meet for years (we're not a techie family) and we wouldn't be able to afford any classes without the money.  For me, I spend maybe 2 hours / month meeting their requirements, so I get "paid" about $100/hour by going through our charter.  Definitely worth it.  My kids like the state test, so that's a bonus.  

 

I also have friends who are financially similar to us but whose kids have special needs; being able to get the services they need in addition to classes and curriculum is a huge blessing.

 

I'm only sharing all this because, for me, it shows that there are a wide range of responses possible, and the type of reactions people have depends on their individual situation.  If we had enough money to pay for the kids' classes without the charter school, I'd drop the charter school.  For us, it's a huge help and allows us to support our kids' interests in a way we wouldn't be able to otherwise.  Especially here in CA, there can be a huge income disparity between people, including homeschoolers, and where you live impacts that too.  Be honest with yourself about your family's needs, wants, and situation, and don't worry much about what the rest of us think. :)

[Arcadia]

For kindergarten it is easy with charter as there is no state tests and the ES aren't picky on work samples. Friends have been happy with Ocean Grove (IEMS) in my area.

My kids outside classes adds up to $4k per child for music, math enrichment, science enrichment and german. We choose not to go with charter but we could have. Our longest family trip/vacation was three weeks so the meet every 20 days is doable.

[Roadrunner]

Annabel, I couldn't agree with you more!

 

We also signed up for a charter because for us $4k a year makes a big difference. There are activities my kids wouldn't have been able to enjoy if not for the charter. I wish I could say we didn't need these funds. We don't live in Silicon Valley, but face similar cost of living with tremendously less incomes. I can imagine with $200k a year household income, one can really afford not to deal with the charter.

 

I feel that in CA there are a lot of hoops to jump in high school if you are aiming for UCs. I have a long way to go until then, but honestly homeschooling privately in high school creates different set of issues. Charter can rubber stamp a class as satisfying AG requirement (depending on ES you can get some flexibility on textbooks), so that's a plus. It's potentially lot easier that doing it through examination. I am not sure which way we will go once we get to high school age, but for now I am taking the money and making the best of it. I could see the unhappiness with the charter model if a parent is an unschooler or opposes testing. I could also see pressure on families with kids behind the state standards, so yes, know what you are getting into.

[Ellie]

The state of California has done an excellent job of gaining control of "homeschoolers" without having to do battle in court or in the state legislature.

 

Yes, I realize this is an inflammatory comment, but it is true nevertheless. 

[Roadrunner]

The state of California has done an excellent job of gaining control of "homeschoolers" without having to do battle in court or in the state legislature.

 

Yes, I realize this is an inflammatory comment, but it is true nevertheless.

Well, actually opportunists in CA have figured out a way to make money on the charter school movement. It's a win win situation. Families have increased educational opportunities and some school districts still recovers some state money. Nobody is forcing anybody. I just don't understand your hostility.

[SeaConquest]

We are very happy with our charter. My oldest is in K and we only HS because he is accelerated. We choose any secular materials we want, and they have no issues with my son working several grade levels ahead. We chose our charter because of the fun enrichment classes they offer. Other charters in our area offer more money if you don't want to take classes, but my extremely extroverted son loves his classes at the charter. They have Spanish, art, music, robotics, Lego, gardening, performing arts, programming, and tons of others.

 

Our EF comes to our house once per month and we turn in 4 samples every other month, along with a PE log. There is optional testing once per year in 3rd or 4th. This hybrid homeschooling works great for us, and I imagine that we will continue at least K-6. My son would not get enough social time (even though we do plenty of extracurricular activities) if we were privately homeschooling, so I'm fine with the notional loss of control (I say notional because the charter hasn't impacted our curricular choices or homeschooling philosophy one iota, except to the extent that I no longer have to worry about my homeschooling budget).

[Arcadia]

I feel that in CA there are a lot of hoops to jump in high school if you are aiming for UCs. ... ... Charter can rubber stamp a class as satisfying AG requirement (depending on ES you can get some flexibility on textbooks), so that's a plus.

The charter can't rubber stamp a class as satisfying AG requirement. Some of the K12 classes aren't AG approved especially the sciences because of the labs. The safest way is still to check UCOP Doorways website for which courses are AG approved.

 

http://www.ucop.edu/doorways/

 

Off-topic - the AoPS books are on Link+. Palo Alto library system have the full set all the way to Calculus. Mountain View city library has some of the books and definitely the intro the algebra text and soln. manual. Both have Jacobs Geometry 2nd Edition.

[ExcitedMama]

Thank you everyone! Anabel, I'm looking into is Ocean Grove so it's great to hear that it's working well for you! Roadrunner I had no idea what to expect from the ES so it's wonderful to hear that you have a great relationship with yours.

 

It really sounds like an amazing way to sign up the kids for special things that would otherwise be hard to manage. French tutoring and ballet would be fabulous! DH is not sold on homeschooling so this could also convince him it's going to be great for the kids. We definitely would not be able to afford fun extras like that on our own!

 

Anything else I should know about Ocean Grove? Do they ever coordinate any field trips? I've still never met anyone who homeschools in real life so it would be fun to find families to hang out with who don't think I'm crazy!

[Roadrunner]

The charter can't rubber stamp a class as satisfying AG requirement. Some of the K12 classes aren't AG approved especially the sciences because of the labs. The safest way is still to check UCOP Doorways website for which courses are AG approved.

 

http://www.ucop.edu/doorways/

 

Off-topic - the AoPS books are on Link+. Palo Alto library system have the full set all the way to Calculus. Mountain View city library has some of the books and definitely the intro the algebra text and soln. manual. Both have Jacobs Geometry 2nd Edition.

Hmmm, it shows me all sorts of classes including science meeting AG requirements. I have no idea how this works in home setting but seems like they got it all. (We use Ocean Grove).

 

Our library isn't on link+ :(

[Arcadia]

When we met the ocean grove ES, the one thing we like was we could accelerate. The ES was going to assess my boys grade level for LA and math. We chose not to sign out for other reasons.

 

Hmmm, it shows me all sorts of classes including science meeting AG requirements. I have no idea how this works in home setting but seems like they got it all. (We use Ocean Grove).

 

Our library isn't on link+ :(

For K12 science the lab part is not included in the approval so people are taking classes at cc just in case it doesn't count as lab science. The K12 AP science classes aren't an issue since the students take the AP exam and use that.

 

Too bad your library isn't on link+ :( The library systems are wonderful where I am. I have a "collection" of library cards.

[Ellie]

Well, actually opportunists in CA have figured out a way to make money on the charter school movement. It's a win win situation. Families have increased educational opportunities and some school districts still recovers some state money. Nobody is forcing anybody. I just don't understand your hostility.

 

Possibly it's because I started homeschooling in San Diego in 1982 and I see what has happened since then.

[Roadrunner]

Possibly it's because I started homeschooling in San Diego in 1982 and I see what has happened since then.

Choice happened. Those who want to school independently like you did can continue to do so.

I would go further to say that I would love the opportunity to pick and choose from PS classes (I believe the state of WA allows for it). I don't care for the politics of this. I want to provide the best educational opportunities for my children and if the charter improved our schooling, why not use it. I don't understand why choice is bad.

[Laurel-in-CA]

Someone asked about charters in my area...we're in Sonoma County. Most charters can serve their own county and adjoining counties....and sometimes the counties next to the adjoining county. When we lived in SoCal, this meant that a charter in Temecula could serve LA County. We've been in 4 charters in our homeschooling career, two in SoCal and two in NorCA. I would say the ones in NorCA have been more rigid and state curriculum oriented, but then one of them we've only been in for high school when, as others have said, the hoops get to be really demanding to jump through. The charter we did art and ceramics through was in SoCal, and those classes really were a tremendous benefit. We joined that charter when my husband was laid off twice in one year and I found out I was pregnant...it was a really tough year.

 

Our SoCal charters were set up for independent homeschoolers with occasional enrichment classes. They seemed to at least "get" homeschooling. The NorCA charters we have been in are much more state oriented. The one my younger daughter was in wanted us to use district curricula, do a science project of their choice, and have the ES write my lesson plans for me. NO THANK YOU.

 

The charter we used for high school (Pathways) was necessary because my dd and I had a strained relationship and having an intermediary assign and review the work really helped. I found that their "college prep" component (an on-line chat and additional assignments) was not integrated well with the "basic graduation" assignments. The due dates tended to be identical and the chat format was not a good one for dd. For this kid, we ended up going with the basic diploma and it has been a good decision for her. She meets weekly with a teacher she likes and wants to please; the meeting includes a 1-hour discussion and presentation of written assignments. There are written assignments for every class, including PE and community service. The school has tried to be flexible on electives; this year dd is doing logic from Classical Academic Press, for example, and we got to choose among several history textbooks. Pathways only gives about $800 per high school student and on-campus classes are charged to that, as is rental of state-mandated curricula. Most of their enrichment classes are on-campus (we have a site within a 20 min. drive of us), not vendor sited so there's less chance to choose someone you already like. She was able to take math and science on campus (2 days/week) and enjoyed that. I enjoyed having somebody else teach them and her instructors were fun and creative.

 

BUT, and this is a very big BUT, Common Core is going to affect *everything* and the charters are not all implementing it the same way. Last year my dd in Pathways had to do computer-based testing 4 times (beginning and end of each semester), in addition to beta testing Common Core. Luckily she'd passed the CAHSEE in her sophomore year. And the software they use to generate the assignment list for the month changes every semester. Yuck!

 

Most of the NorCA charters I know are K-8. Pathways is one of the only ones that offer high school. Most of the private schools up here also seem to be just K-8 as well and feed into the public school. There is a catholic high school and a private christian school that does high school but $$$$$$.

 

Anyway, I pulled my younger daughter out of the charter she was in for part of 4th grade and hope to go independent with her thru high school.

 

Hope all this rambling has helped.

[Ellie]

Choice happened. Those who want to school independently like you did can continue to do so.

I would go further to say that I would love the opportunity to pick and choose from PS classes (I believe the state of WA allows for it). I don't care for the politics of this. I want to provide the best educational opportunities for my children and if the charter improved our schooling, why not use it. I don't understand why choice is bad.

 

"Choice" isn't "bad."

 

What has happened in California is that the "choice" to enroll children in the public school means that the state now has control over those children in a way that it would not have had control if their parents had homeschooled privately. The parents don't even know what they've given up.

 

There have been private homeschoolers who have been harassed by public school officials to enroll their children in a charter school because so many other people have done it, and that has set a precedent. There are public school officials who believe it is not legal to homeschool in California by filing a private school affidavit. There are parents who do not *know* they even have the choice, because the local public school has told them so, and they have many friends who enroll their children in the charters and so they think they must do it, as well.

[Roadrunner]

"Choice" isn't "bad."

 

What has happened in California is that the "choice" to enroll children in the public school means that the state now has control over those children in a way that it would not have had control if their parents had homeschooled privately. The parents don't even know what they've given up.

 

There have been private homeschoolers who have been harassed by public school officials to enroll their children in a charter school because so many other people have done it, and that has set a precedent. There are public school officials who believe it is not legal to homeschool in California by filing a private school affidavit. There are parents who do not *know* they even have the choice, because the local public school has told them so, and they have many friends who enroll their children in the charters and so they think they must do it, as well.

I am sorry, but parents are adults who can research their options. It's not that hard to find out how to legally homeschool. I have homeschooled privately and I know a lot of people who still do. I don't know a single incident of harassment. I can't see how some misguided people either harassing homeschoolers or some misguided parents not understanding their options is an argument against charters.

There are a lot of people who wouldn't have homeschooled if they didn't have handholding from charters. Believe me, I have met those too.

I don't understand your sentiment other that if seems to me that maybe some people feel that other people's choices have somehow "corrupted" the idealistic version of what homeschooling should be. Frequent comments of "charter school students aren't homeschoolers" make me think I am right.

[SeaConquest]

"Choice" isn't "bad."

 

What has happened in California is that the "choice" to enroll children in the public school means that the state now has control over those children in a way that it would not have had control if their parents had homeschooled privately. The parents don't even know what they've given up.

 

There have been private homeschoolers who have been harassed by public school officials to enroll their children in a charter school because so many other people have done it, and that has set a precedent. There are public school officials who believe it is not legal to homeschool in California by filing a private school affidavit. There are parents who do not *know* they even have the choice, because the local public school has told them so, and they have many friends who enroll their children in the charters and so they think they must do it, as well.

As someone actually living in CA, and active in numerous online and in-person homeschooling groups in Southern California, this has not been my experience at all. People move into this area, and those interested in homeschooling are very aware of their options. They join FB groups or other fora, and ask questions about the laws and the community. I've never seen anyone pressured into joining a charter. In fact, our charter currently has a wait list because so many families want the hybrid homeschooling option it provides. Many homeschoolers in Southern California school privately. Many school through a charter, especially in the younger years. There is an abundance of choice and the homeschooling community is growing and thriving. Perhaps some condider us sellouts or slaves to state control; I consider us lucky to have so many choices to find the right fit for our families.

[Arcadia]

My school district is basic aid and fat on property tax contributions and school bonds. My prop tax is higher than $4k anyway and plenty of my neighbors pay more than $10k. The state don't give a hoot :lol: My district skip both my kids a grade by mistake when placing them, far from the horror stories of public schools giving people a hard time.

 

Some families who opt for Ocean Grove and K12 VA would have put their kids in private or stay put in public schools otherwise. Some opt for public charters because their kids get great services with IEP. Choice is good. It's up to the parents/guardians to exercise due diligence on their choices.

[Ellie]

As someone actually living in CA, and active in numerous online and in-person homeschooling groups in Southern California, this has not been my experience at all. People move into this area, and those interested in homeschooling are very aware of their options. They join FB groups or other fora, and ask questions about the laws and the community. I've never seen anyone pressured into joining a charter. In fact, our charter currently has a wait list because so many families want the hybrid homeschooling option it provides. Many homeschoolers in Southern California school privately. Many school through a charter, especially in the younger years. There is an abundance of choice and the homeschooling community is growing and thriving. Perhaps some condider us sellouts or slaves to state control; I consider us lucky to have so many choices to find the right fit for our families.

 

that it has not been your experience does not mean that it has not happened. 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Someone asked about charters in my area...we're in Sonoma County. Most charters can serve their own county and adjoining counties....and sometimes the counties next to the adjoining county. When we lived in SoCal, this meant that a charter in Temecula could serve LA County. We've been in 4 charters in our homeschooling career, two in SoCal and two in NorCA. I would say the ones in NorCA have been more rigid and state curriculum oriented, but then one of them we've only been in for high school when, as others have said, the hoops get to be really demanding to jump through. The charter we did art and ceramics through was in SoCal, and those classes really were a tremendous benefit. We joined that charter when my husband was laid off twice in one year and I found out I was pregnant...it was a really tough year.

 

Our SoCal charters were set up for independent homeschoolers with occasional enrichment classes. They seemed to at least "get" homeschooling. The NorCA charters we have been in are much more state oriented. The one my younger daughter was in wanted us to use district curricula, do a science project of their choice, and have the ES write my lesson plans for me. NO THANK YOU.

 

The charter we used for high school (Pathways) was necessary because my dd and I had a strained relationship and having an intermediary assign and review the work really helped. I found that their "college prep" component (an on-line chat and additional assignments) was not integrated well with the "basic graduation" assignments. The due dates tended to be identical and the chat format was not a good one for dd. For this kid, we ended up going with the basic diploma and it has been a good decision for her. She meets weekly with a teacher she likes and wants to please; the meeting includes a 1-hour discussion and presentation of written assignments. There are written assignments for every class, including PE and community service. The school has tried to be flexible on electives; this year dd is doing logic from Classical Academic Press, for example, and we got to choose among several history textbooks. Pathways only gives about $800 per high school student and on-campus classes are charged to that, as is rental of state-mandated curricula. Most of their enrichment classes are on-campus (we have a site within a 20 min. drive of us), not vendor sited so there's less chance to choose someone you already like. She was able to take math and science on campus (2 days/week) and enjoyed that. I enjoyed having somebody else teach them and her instructors were fun and creative.

 

BUT, and this is a very big BUT, Common Core is going to affect *everything* and the charters are not all implementing it the same way. Last year my dd in Pathways had to do computer-based testing 4 times (beginning and end of each semester), in addition to beta testing Common Core. Luckily she'd passed the CAHSEE in her sophomore year. And the software they use to generate the assignment list for the month changes every semester. Yuck!

 

Most of the NorCA charters I know are K-8. Pathways is one of the only ones that offer high school. Most of the private schools up here also seem to be just K-8 as well and feed into the public school. There is a catholic high school and a private christian school that does high school but $$$$$$.

 

Anyway, I pulled my younger daughter out of the charter she was in for part of 4th grade and hope to go independent with her thru high school.

 

Hope all this rambling has helped.

 

Yes, Laurel, this is incredibly helpful, thank you! I'm in Sonoma County also, and was just looking into the charters here, and there certainly doesn't seem to be anyone handing out hundreds of dollars that you can use for extracurriculars!  All books, etc. purchased belong to the school, any outside stuff has to be from an approved vendor list, and there are a ton of hoops but no payoff for somebody like me.  Bummer.  I have a friend who is a teacher at a homeschool charter in Half Moon Bay and they hand out cash for extracurriculars there.  So it must vary tremendously county by county.

 

It seems like I flirt with this idea about once a year - usually when xmas bills start to hit! and realize that while some people out there are getting great deals, there doesn't seem to be an option like this in my area.

[KrissiK]

I have heard good and bad. I have friends that send their kids to a b&m charter, who love it. Their kids have science labs, music enrichment, sports, etc. every week and it's a great thing. My sil is involved in a charter that gives her an amazing amount of freedom with curriculum, and she pretty much dictates her terms, and she loves it. Another sil involved in an on-line charter and can't wait to get out of it. The teacher who is over her insists they do every problem and every assignment, even if my niece knows the material or it's redundant or whatever. My neighbor, who just pulled her first grade twins out of ps in October, joined an on-line charter, just to get her feet under her and she said the Common Core math is killing them. First graders have to explain, yes explain, 5 different ways that 5+3=8. She hates it. I have her reading TWTM. I have toyed with the idea of charter for some accountability for my oldest (someone else to be accountable to besides mom) but I do feel like I'd be selling my soul and I just don't want to do that.

[...................]

To me, 2000.00 is not worth giving up my freedom. So we homeschool privately. I can't understand why people are so excited about the charters here.

[maize]

To me, 2000.00 is not worth giving up my freedom. So we homeschool privately. I can't understand why people are so excited about the charters here.

Based on your signature, you are able to afford nice curricula, online classes, and extracurriculars like swimming and music lessons for your kids without help from charter school funds.

 

Not everyone has the funds available for that.

 

When we lived in California, we struggled to make ends meet just to afford a small apartment and food for the family, one old car, no cell phones. Enrolling in a charter school program allowed my oldest to take music lessons and take advantage of some nice resources we would not have had access to otherwise.

 

For some people $2000 is more disposable income than would ever be available for their children's education without the charter school funds

[Ellie]

Based on your signature, you are able to afford nice curricula, online classes, and extracurriculars like swimming and music lessons for your kids without help from charter school funds.

 

Not everyone has the funds available for that.

 

When we lived in California, we struggled to make ends meet just to afford a small apartment and food for the family, one old car, no cell phones. Enrolling in a charter school program allowed my oldest to take music lessons and take advantage of some nice resources we would not have had access to otherwise.

 

For some people $2000 is more disposable income than would ever be available for their children's education without the charter school funds

 

Thousands of parents teach their children at home without the benefit of on-line classes and swimming and music lessons. In fact, millions of people who send their children to school don't have the money for those things, either. And instructional materials don't need to be costly, either.

 

ITA with Calming Tea: the hoops required to public-school-at-home are not worth it to me.

[...................]

Based on your signature, you are able to afford nice curricula, online classes, and extracurriculars like swimming and music lessons for your kids without help from charter school funds.

 

Not everyone has the funds available for that.

 

When we lived in California, we struggled to make ends meet just to afford a small apartment and food for the family, one old car, no cell phones. Enrolling in a charter school program allowed my oldest to take music lessons and take advantage of some nice resources we would not have had access to otherwise.

 

For some people $2000 is more disposable income than would ever be available for their children's education without the charter school funds

That's true.  Most of the people I know using charters either have large families or are trying to survive on a lower one income than what is ideal for the area.  CA is an expensive state. 

[SeaConquest]

that it has not been your experience does not mean that it has not happened.

I get that, but your characterization is that these types of practices are commonplace. Yet, none of the people actually homeschooling with charters in this thread have witnessed similar occurences. I also understand that you privately homeschooled in CA for quite some time, but it feels like an attack to be constantly told that those of us using charters are not really homeschooling, that we are uninformed, that we have given up all control to the state, etc. -- most especially since this critique is coming from someone no longer living or homeschooling here.

 

There are good and bad charters, there are charters with tremendous flexibility and those without. I understand that you may have a philosophical objection to charters, and that's fine *for your family*. But please recognize that other well informed people on this board have made other choices for theirs.

[maize]

Thousands of parents teach their children at home without the benefit of on-line classes and swimming and music lessons. In fact, millions of people who send their children to school don't have the money for those things, either. And instructional materials don't need to be costly, either.

 

ITA with Calming Tea: the hoops required to public-school-at-home are not worth it to me.

Yes, but for a parent who wants to include those things in their children's education, charter schools that make such possible can be a really good option.

 

For some people, extra funds are not necessary to give their child the education they desire. For others, the choice to jump through charter school hoops may make what was impossible possible. My primary goal in educating my children is to provide them with the best education available, and if charter schools facilitate that so much the better.

 

We left California some years ago, but personally I would like to see flexible charter programs available in more states. Not to replace independent homeschooling, but as an additional educational option.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I get the philsophical debate, I really do.  But putting on blinders and focusing on what is right for my kids and our financial situation:  if a charter was willing to hand me money to use as I see fit, I would be willing to do things like standardized testing, monthly meetings, etc. in order to have money to pay for extracurriculars that I can't afford now - horseback riding, various academic camps, outdoor science activities, theater camps, etc.  

 

However, I'm not interested in a charter telling me what to use, how to teach, what pace to go at, that I have to choose materials in September and stick with them for the whole year (!), and that they can't tell me how much money might be assigned to my student for materials until they make sure all their site and admin costs are covered - but that they have a resources library 45 min away and I'm welcome to come check things out.  And that extracurriculars have to come off of an approved vendor list that doesn't include many of the things I'd want to do.  Yeah, no thanks.

 

I'm mostly happy and slightly jealous that other folks have charters that work for them.  And kind of surprised we don't have more flexible options up here.  People often are surprised when I say we don't homeschool through a charter - doesn't everyone?  But the charter option seems surprisingly restrictive based on what I'm hearing from others in other parts of the state.  Oh well.

[Ellie]

I get that, but your characterization is that these types of practices are commonplace. Yet, none of the people actually homeschooling with charters in this thread have witnessed similar occurences. I also understand that you privately homeschooled in CA for quite some time, but it feels like an attack to be constantly told that those of us using charters are not really homeschooling, that we are uninformed, that we have given up all control to the state, etc. -- most especially since this critique is coming from someone no longer living or homeschooling here.

 

There are good and bad charters, there are charters with tremendous flexibility and those without. I understand that you may have a philosophical objection to charters, and that's fine *for your family*. But please recognize that other well informed people on this board have made other choices for theirs.

 

Please note that I have not said that people using charter schools are "not really homeschooling." I have pointed out that children enrolled in home-based charter schools are legally public school students and not private school students, but I have not, ever, said that they are "not really homeschooling."

 

Yes, indeed, many, many people who enroll their children in home-based charter schools are absolutely uninformed. I have had many conversations with them.

 

And the fact that I am not currently living in California nor homeschooling does not render my knowledge and opinions irrelevant. Goodness. You don't know my history.

[...................]

It's really simple. You have a choice.

 

Option A: Total Freedom 

 

Option B: Some amount of government control over your child's education and life + Money.

 

Honestly, there is no other way to look at it and those two facts cannot be refuted.  Now, you can decide.  In your own life and situation, is 2000.00 worth giving up some amount of freedom and choosing some amount of control and oversight by the government employees who work at the charter?

 

Example:

If you cannot find free or low cost options to fulfill the needs of *your* children (ie maybe you have a musically gifted child who truly needs music lessons to thrive, etc. etc.)  then it may make sense to you to logically choose Option B.

 

Another avenue to consider is scholarships.  Local community music schools offer scholarships to low income families, YMCA offers scholarships, local parks and recreation offer scholarships....free or low cost tuition, (and you would be amazed at what is considered low income in some areas of CA!)...I would personally look into that before I signed away my (total) freedom.

 

 

 

 

[Arcadia]

To me, 2000.00 is not worth giving up my freedom. So we homeschool privately. I can't understand why people are so excited about the charters here.

$2k per child may not be a hardship to you or me but there is no reason to begrudge anyone the choice. After all the state tax that we paid, I rather families get to benefit in getting that $2k per child to spend.

A lot of my boys' classmates at the homeschool math and science class are using Ocean Grove funds to pay. The children are very happy to be able to attend the classes so I am happy that the parents have access to this kind of charter.

 

How about a talented violinist or gymnast who couldn't afford lessons. I don't know anyone who would teach for free but there are teachers who would accept Ocean Grove payment vouchers.

 

ETA:

The low income was $56k annual gross income the last time I ask for a family of four. The YMCA scholarships for memberships and camps are oversubscribed here.

[SeaConquest]

Please note that I have not said that people using charter schools are "not really homeschooling." I have pointed out that children enrolled in home-based charter schools are legally public school students and not private school students, but I have not, ever, said that they are "not really homeschooling."

 

Yes, indeed, many, many people who enroll their children in home-based charter schools are absolutely uninformed. I have had many conversations with them.

 

And the fact that I am not currently living in California nor homeschooling does not render my knowledge and opinions irrelevant. Goodness. You don't know my history.

Ellie, I'm very aware of your history. I've read it many times. I have also read your opinions numerous times in threads about CA charters or the many "is this homeschooling?" threads. I'm not saying that your opinions are irrelevant. I lived in Monterey in the late 90s. I have opinions about it based on my experience living there. But, I also recognize that I'm no longer living there, that things may be different from my recollection, and that therefore my experience years ago has some limitations.

[kitten18]

I'm in SoCal, north of L.A. We're in a home study program that is part of a brick and mortar charter school.

 

Hoops:

Meet once a month, every 20 instructional days with our ES. We usually meet her at the cafe at the school.

Provide her with a brief, less than 2 pages bullet point list of topics we've covered that month.

Give her a work sample (1 page or lesson) from each subject each month.

Take the standardized test in the spring.

 

Pros:

$800 semester in funds for each child that can be spent on secular curricula, technology (right now I'm posting from an iPad mini that was purchased with school funds), or a large variety of classes and lessons. Im currently using funds for ds's gymnastics classes, in the past we've done TKD, taken tennis lessons, and chess classes.

My ds is receiving speech therapy at school.

Ds is also doing Lego league at school.

 

Cons:

Standardized test in the spring, doesn't bother me other than it's a disruption to my schedule for 2 days.

 

 

Other thoughts:

Our school is great, very, very easy. Probably part of that is because the charter school itself was started to be an alternative for people who were not happy with the local public schools.

Our particular ES is really great, very laid back.

I can use any curriculum material that I want. I only need to list things we've learned.

I can teach topics in any order. I know my ES keeps a master list somewhere so if she sees that we're covering CA history she marks off those objectives, doesn't matter if it's in 3rd grade or 6th grade.

[go_go_gadget]

We like the funding, our ES is a lovely person and gives me completely free reign, and we take the tests in spring but don't teach to them or waste time preparing for them. There isn't a single downside for us at this time. We'll be leaving by high school, though, because all that would change. At that point, it'll be ''So long, and thanks for all the ballet classes!''

[Ellie]

Ellie, I'm very aware of your history. I've read it many times. I have also read your opinions numerous times in threads about CA charters or the many "is this homeschooling?" threads. I'm not saying that your opinions are irrelevant. I lived in Monterey in the late 90s. I have opinions about it based on my experience living there. But, I also recognize that I'm no longer living there, that things may be different from my recollection, and that therefore my experience years ago has some limitations.

 

You also do not know the contacts I still have in California. And I have never said that people who enroll their children in home-based charter schools are not "homeschooling." I let other people say that. :-)

[anabelneri]

I've read through the conversation, and only have a few things to add:

 

(1) I know of homeschool groups in our area where charter school homeschoolers are given the cold shoulder and told that they aren't real homeschoolers.  If you're new to homeschooling and looking for a group to hang out with, figuring out if you're a match with that group on this topic might be a good idea.  Our park day (Mid-Peninsula Homeschoolers) is inclusive on this topic -- we have charter school families and we have families who have always filled PSAs and would never give up their freedom.  You're welcome to come by for a chat if you're in the area :)

 

(2) The median income in my area is around $90,000, which means that if your income is lower than that you are likely to qualify for assistance.  I've been on MediCal (best health insurance in my life!), I've lived in below-the-median-income-housing, I've had scholarships at the Y.  Once you're above that median income line, all help is gone.  It's totally worth checking into, but if you're in that unfortunate at-the-median-income stage, you're mostly screwed.  A YMCA membership is almost $200/month, classes are additional.  When you're in this situation, this type of charter is a gift.  The people I choose to hang around with don't make judgements about each others' choices.  We have the philosophy that every parent is doing the best they can, and that we can never know all the factors that make parents choose what they've chosen.  We try to educate the new homeschoolers about the choices available to them.  As someone who has been less well off I've appreciated their openness and lack of judgement, and I assume that they appreciate that I don't expect them to only allow their kids to take classes that my family could afford too :).

 

(3) Ocean Grove does have some organized events/field trips, called GEAs.  There aren't a lot of them, but I've heard good things about them.  My ES also arranges field trips for her people and I assume others do to.  ESs do vary a great deal.  Mine is laid back, but she gets her part done and is game to support us as best she can.  If you get an ES that isn't working for you, you can ask to talk to their supervisor, and you can ask for a new one after giving the first one a serious chance to work out.  Like most schools, OG is trying to figure out how to interact with Common Core; it hasn't impacted us any more than the old state standards had.  The school is also undergoing restructuring because we went from a couple hundred students to over 2000 in just a couple years.  OG has been great for my family in that I have a lot of freedom -- I'm not expected to stick to the curriculum I chose at the beginning of the year.  When my eldest was in 1st grade we tried 4 different math curricula trying to get a good fit, and it was not a problem.  In fact, the resource center (in Ben Lomond which is an hour away from us) was amazingly helpful because I could borrow for free whatever they had, in our case I found Singapore, Saxon, Miquon, MUS, and I'd already bought Right Start.  I can accelerate or slow down as needed.  I know that folks whose children are behind grade level have more oversight than I've experienced, but that hasn't been an issue for most folks I know.  There are no gifted services or testing, but if you've got a kid who is gifted in an area you can just buy the materials you need.  You'll have to report and provide samples in major subject areas: English, Math, Social Studies, Science, PE, and Special Interest.  I do know people who unsc///////hool and make it work; they just have to keep record of what they've done all month so they can pull out something to report.  The ES is in charge of figuring out how what you've done aligns with the standards.  That's not the parent's job; they're not the ones trained to do that, so don't let an ES tell you that you have to do that.  You can totally choose your own curriculum; if you want one that isn't secular you'll have to buy it yourself, but you can report the work they've done and it still "counts".  I think there are new regulations about what you can turn in, though; I know in the past we could just cross out the religious references on a worksheet and turn it in anyway, but I think that has changed.  If you do a study of a world religion (including your own) and want to report it, that's possible if you do it in a "comparative religions" sort of way by including info about a different religion.  I find that kinda entertaining.  In the beginning I bought a TON of curriculum, from math to English to French to Montessori and Waldorf materials, art supplies, geology kits, etc.  The vendor list is huge and amazing, if you can figure out how to search it.  These days I have most of what I need, and all our money goes to classes.  I've had good experiences all around.

 

Good luck!

[kiwik]

From what everyone has said it sounds easy to walk away from if you change your mind.

[KrissiK]

Ok, what is this $$ you people are talking about regarding charter schools in California? Granted, I have not researched charters extensively, but I have never heard of getting $$. Is this common of all charters? Or just some?

[Ellie]

Ok, what is this $$ you people are talking about regarding charter schools in California? Granted, I have not researched charters extensively, but I have never heard of getting $$. Is this common of all charters? Or just some?

 

In California, some of the home-based charter schools either give stipends to the families enrolled so they can buy stuff on their own, or the charter itself buys instructional materials. The charter might also pay for outside classes. They're not all the same, though. There are also the home-based charter schools which provide/require Internet instruction.through K12 or Connections, which may pay for the outside classes. They're all different.

[Arcadia]

Ok, what is this $$ you people are talking about regarding charter schools in California? Granted, I have not researched charters extensively, but I have never heard of getting $$. Is this common of all charters? Or just some?

We are discussing Ocean Grove in this thread but there are other charters under IEMS that also pays for outside classes. The link shows you the county where charters run by IEMS are a possible choice

 

http://ieminc.org/index.php/education

 

The vendor lists is in below link

http://www.iemsupport.com/ogsearch/search_vendors.php

 

Not all charters give money. The ones that do pay the vendor/supplier directly.

 

ETA:

If you (general) are above the median income for California, there is little to no financial aid even if your household income is lower than the median income in your area/county.

[daijobu]

We are Ocean Grove veterans and went private this academic year.  OG was a breeze for elementary, but in middle schoool, all the additional testing, all the photocopying just started to get on my nerves.  Also the PE running test.  That was kind of a headache too.  

 

The key to a sucessful charter experience is having a great ES.  Your ES can make or break your OG experience.  A good ES knows how to bend the rules and accommodate your homeschooling style.  A good ES will minimize your workload.  Try to get a recommendation for a good one, but good experienced ES's tend to be full.  If your current ES is difficult to work with, don't hesitate to request another one.  

 

While having the extra money is really nice, I can understand the issues around the loss of freedom.  The problem is that in California, EVERYONE is enrolled in A SCHOOL and there is NO HOMESCHOOLING, lol.  This is problematic for me as I am not aware of any other state that handles homeschoolers this way.  

 

So when for example we field a mathcounts team, and my kids are in my private school and another kid on the team is in their family's private school, and another kid on the team is in a public charter, but we're all really homeschooling, except there is no homeschooling in California, does this mean we are breaking the rules because we are all enrolled in different schools?  Can we really call ourselves a homeschooled team?  

 

OTOH, by calling ourselves private schools, we align our interests with the interests of regular private schools in the state.  If the state government wants to encroach on private homeschools, they will be facing opposition from all the private schools and all their families as well.  I suspect this is the detente homeschoolers have reached with state government.  

 

ETA: I've heard through the grapevine that there's a lot more interest in OG lately, and they had some trouble accommodating demand for ES's.  So whether or not you ultimately decide to join, you may want to get your paperwork in and get on the wait list asap for the coming academic year.  Good luck!  Lots of great info on this thread

 

 

[Ellie]

  The problem is that in California, EVERYONE is enrolled in A SCHOOL and there is NO HOMESCHOOLING, lol.  This is problematic for me as I am not aware of any other state that handles homeschoolers this way.  

 

So when for example we field a mathcounts team, and my kids are in my private school and another kid on the team is in their family's private school, and another kid on the team is in a public charter, but we're all really homeschooling, except there is no homeschooling in California, does this mean we are breaking the rules because we are all enrolled in different schools?  Can we really call ourselves a homeschooled team?  

 

OTOH, by calling ourselves private schools, we align our interests with the interests of regular private schools in the state.  If the state government wants to encroach on private homeschools, they will be facing opposition from all the private schools and all their families as well.  I suspect this is the detente homeschoolers have reached with state government.  

 

 

 

Don't you think that the court case a few years ago clears that up some? In any case, many non-homeschooling organizations have never figured out that stuff. 

 

Texas and Illinois are both states that had court cases that decided that homeschoolers are private schools, so they're in the same place California is. 

[kitten18]

In California, some of the home-based charter schools either give stipends to the families enrolled so they can buy stuff on their own, or the charter itself buys instructional materials. The charter might also pay for outside classes. They're not all the same, though. There are also the home-based charter schools which provide/require Internet instruction.through K12 or Connections, which may pay for the outside classes. They're all different.

I've never actually heard of a charter that gives money to the families. That would be income and would be taxable.

All the charters I know about have the parent submit a request for classes or materials and then the school issues a purchase order directly to the vendor.

[daijobu]

 

 

Texas and Illinois are both states that had court cases that decided that homeschoolers are private schools, so they're in the same place California is. 

 

Thank you!  I always wondered about the peculiar situation homeschoolers in California find ourselves in.