Post-Calculus BC options when DE/CC is not possible?

[rbk mama]

DS will be taking Calculus BC next year as a 10th grader.  We are US citizens living overseas right now, so taking courses at a local CC or University is not possible.  MIT OCW Scholar courses- Multivariable Calculus and Differential Equations- look great.  They are semester courses -- not sure if DS would be able to finish each in a semester, though.  Would that be strange to give a full year credit for each? 

 

Stanford OHS is very pricey, and financial aid is not offered for single courses.  Any other options to consider?  Any online course would need to be asynchronous because of the time difference (or have many different timing options).

 

This DS is an excellent independent learner, so we don't necessarily have to enroll in a course.  On the other hand, he might enjoy some interaction with an instructor and other students.

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

[dhudson]

Art of Problem Solving Calculus has been fantastic for my ds. He is taking the class through AOPS. It is very challenging but has been great for him. You can do the books independently.

 

 

 

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com

[rbk mama]

Thanks!  I had forgotten about the AOPS Counting & Probability and Number Theory books. Would these seem odd following Calculus BC?  He doesn't want to use them prior to Calculus because he is interested in taking Calc-based Physics sooner rather than later.

[Jen in NY]

My daughter has been using the MIT Multi this year and is finding it very usable. She's taking her time and it most likely would have taken the entire year to finish, but she was able to get into the one and only Multi class offered at the CC starting in January. It happened to be scheduled back to back with the Chem II she was already in so she just went for it. But if she had needed to finish with the MIT I think it would have worked out great. (She's overscheduled, so I felt like scheduling it for the year was the best approach here. YMMV.)

 

 

 

 

[Timbers6]

Dd use JHU Center for talented youth for MVC 11th grade. She had a total of nine classes (never again) but got through it successfully. JHU uses MIT online lectures...pretty good but chose not to go that route this yr.

the local CC doesn't have linear eq. So she is taking AP STATS. She is missing calc to say the least. She is truly excited to continue w higher math in college and to have a real professor!

[regentrude]

Art of Problem Solving Calculus has been fantastic for my ds. He is taking the class through AOPS. It is very challenging but has been great for him. You can do the books independently.

 

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com

 

It is a great book, but it does not cover material beyond BC. There is no AoPS text for multivariable calculus or diff eq.

[amy58103]

DS will be taking Calculus BC next year as a 10th grader.  We are US citizens living overseas right now, so taking courses at a local CC or University is not possible.  MIT OCW Scholar courses- Multivariable Calculus and Differential Equations- look great.  They are semester courses -- not sure if DS would be able to finish each in a semester, though.  Would that be strange to give a full year credit for each? 

 

AP Calculus BC is equivalent to MIT's Single-Variable Calculus (18.01) course.  If you are giving one high-school credit for Calc BC, I don't think it would look odd to award one high-school credit for the Multi-Variable (18.02) or Differential Calculus (18.03) courses. 

 

Another way to look at it:  MIT expects its students to spend 12 hours a week on a 4-credit courses; so for a 14 week semester, a student is expected to spend 168 hours plus additional preparation time for the final exam.  This seams like more than enough time to justify awarding a high school credit for one MIT class. 

[cjzimmer1]

Mine took Calc BC as a freshman and then stats as a sophomore.  My son has always enjoyed playing around on Alchemy so we tried AoPS Counting and probability with plans for Number theory senior year.  Unfortunately that was an utter fail for us.  We discovered that DS does not like the puzzle it out approach as much as he thought he did.  We found mathandmusicstudio.com  DS is Taking Multi Variable Calculus and Differential Equations this year.  It's a group of only 4 students and DS is loving it.  He offers classes and private tutoring.  Not sure if you would be able to find a time that works due to the different time zones but I really can't recommend John highly enough.  My DS is absolutely thriving.

[Mike in SA]

Thanks!  I had forgotten about the AOPS Counting & Probability and Number Theory books. Would these seem odd following Calculus BC?  He doesn't want to use them prior to Calculus because he is interested in taking Calc-based Physics sooner rather than later.

 

Would not look odd at all.  Treat each as a one-semester course, and they're perfect.  They are not calculus-based, but calculus is just one branch of higher mathematics.  Number theory is still actively researched, as is combinatorics -- the latter is widely viewed as one of the very toughest branches of math.

 

 

AP Calculus BC is equivalent to MIT's Single-Variable Calculus (18.01) course.  If you are giving one high-school credit for Calc BC, I don't think it would look odd to award one high-school credit for the Multi-Variable (18.02) or Differential Calculus (18.03) courses. 

 

Another way to look at it:  MIT expects its students to spend 12 hours a week on a 4-credit courses; so for a 14 week semester, a student is expected to spend 168 hours plus additional preparation time for the final exam.  This seams like more than enough time to justify awarding a high school credit for one MIT class. 

 

Agreed.  Many high schools teach it as a full-credit course.  The MIT version is more rigorous than most.  The 18.01sc/18.02sc/18.03sc/18.06sc sequence is top-notch.  The only concern I would have (and it's not a big deal) is that the last three wouldn't apply towards a math major, if you chose that route -- you would have to retake them at most schools.  The individual deans do have waiver powers in many cases, though.

[mumto2]

We have the same time difference issues. MIT is definately being used but we have also done some Coursera offerings. For instance Stanford is offering Cryptography 1 through Coursera in January. It is a challenging one that both dc's did a year ago. Dd is working her way through a Statistics book waiting for something interesting on Coursera. Ds is doing an MIT calc class.

[lmrich]

Would Statistics work for you? Also keep in mind how rapidly things change; you are looking at a course he needs to take in two years. There may be more options by then. 

[flyingiguana]

It depends on whether you want outside credit for it.  If you do, then the options may be more limited for multivariable calc.  At that point, I might choose AP Statistics (if you can do AP tests) since the path to credit is more clear.

 

But, if the plan is just to do the course and not worry about getting college credit, I've seen a number of them around -- coursera or edx?  I have no idea how they are.  Other than free.

 

 

[rbk mama]

Thanks for the suggestions!  I like the independently paced option of JHU - seems like a nice combination of independent learning and interaction with an instructor.  I need to explore Coursera and Edx a bit more. 

 

He will end up taking Statistics, as he is interested in it, but I'm not sure if he will be content with that replacing math in his schedule.  Perhaps he could do some of the AOPS Counting and Probability or Number Theory books that year.

 

Also great to hear that we could plan for a full year credit for each of the MIT OCW courses. 

 

At this point I have just accepted that he probably cannot get university credit for these courses.  I don't know how we could.  (We are doing APs, but more for the outside validation of his work than for a hope of credit.)

 

Thanks everyone!

[kiana]

Depending on the university credit and/or advanced standing for more advanced classes (like the OCW ones) may be available through a portfolio of completed work and/or taking that university's final exam. You should definitely save a portfolio of his work in case it is needed as it is more difficult to assemble later.

 

Advanced standing as opposed to credit would indicate that some schools would not grant credit towards graduation but would count the calc 3 requirement (if required) as satisfied and allow a math elective to be substituted instead.

[rbk mama]

Thanks, kiana!  I had not thought of that possibility.

[rbk mama]

Mine took Calc BC as a freshman and then stats as a sophomore.  My son has always enjoyed playing around on Alchemy so we tried AoPS Counting and probability with plans for Number theory senior year.  Unfortunately that was an utter fail for us.  We discovered that DS does not like the puzzle it out approach as much as he thought he did.  We found mathandmusicstudio.com  DS is Taking Multi Variable Calculus and Differential Equations this year.  It's a group of only 4 students and DS is loving it.  He offers classes and private tutoring.  Not sure if you would be able to find a time that works due to the different time zones but I really can't recommend John highly enough.  My DS is absolutely thriving.

 

What an interesting person!  The website doesn't indicate very much about how his classes work.  I will email him and get more details.  Thanks for the recommendation!

 

[Mike in SA]

We found mathandmusicstudio.com  DS is Taking Multi Variable Calculus and Differential Equations this year.  It's a group of only 4 students and DS is loving it.  He offers classes and private tutoring.  Not sure if you would be able to find a time that works due to the different time zones but I really can't recommend John highly enough.  My DS is absolutely thriving.

 

Curious about this one. Precalc + Linear Algebra + Non-Euclidean Geometry is a great combo course.  How are his classes structured / taught?

[MarkT]

Since your student will certainly have enough HS Math credits perhaps a year of Calculus based Physics (taking the AP C exams if available) for his 11th grade (I like applied Math).  He could even take these over two years as University Physics 1 and 2.  Then take Multi-variable Calc or Linear Algebra Senior year.  Leave a few courses for college.

[cjzimmer1]

Curious about this one. Precalc + Linear Algebra + Non-Euclidean Geometry is a great combo course.  How are his classes structured / taught?

 

We've only had experience with our current class so I can't say for certain how other classes are run  but the Calc class meets twice a week for an hour.  Assigned homework/grading has been minimal but we were told that upfront because he feels that at this level, students know how much work they need to put in to get the concepts and so allows the kids to decide what they need to do.  But if it's something you are interested in, definitely send John an e-mail.  He's been very responsive with any questions I've had.

[mathwonk]

I'm not sure what your child's goal is, but if it is merely to advance in depth of math understanding, independent study from a good theoretical calculus book might suit, such as Spivak, or Apostol.  As you may know, Spivak is one variable calc done from scratch, but at a deeper level than AP calculus.

[quark]

Curious about this one. Precalc + Linear Algebra + Non-Euclidean Geometry is a great combo course.  How are his classes structured / taught?

 

DS did the Analytical Geometry with Algebra 2 and Abstract Algebra. Analytical Geo was partially based on Jurgensen Geometry and partially on John's self-designed curriculum IIRC. Algebra 2 used the Dolciani Structure and Method Book 2 and Abstract Algebra component was based on John's own materials as well. John integrated them quite seamlessly, jumping around chapters (but covering a large majority of the book in the end) so that concepts followed in a logical order.

 

I believe his precalc lin alg class follows a similar progression.

 

He teaches small group and private one-to-one classes using an online whiteboard. Students will need a Bamboo pen tablet. It's all audio and whiteboard, no video and students are able to take screenshots of concepts they want to save electronically. He assigns homework as needed, not too much but a meaningful amount, and is quite flexible with deadlines...because most group classes are small, he gauges student understanding pretty well during classwork.

[SeaConquest]

DS did the Analytical Geometry with Algebra 2 and Abstract Algebra. Analytical Geo was partially based on Jurgensen Geometry and partially on John's self-designed curriculum IIRC. Algebra 2 used the Dolciani Structure and Method Book 2 and Abstract Algebra component was based on John's own materials as well. John integrated them quite seamlessly, jumping around chapters (but covering a large majority of the book in the end) so that concepts followed in a logical order.

 

I believe his precalc lin alg class follows a similar progression.

 

He teaches small group and private one-to-one classes using an online whiteboard. Students will need a Bamboo pen tablet. It's all audio and whiteboard, no video and students are able to take screenshots of concepts they want to save electronically. He assigns homework as needed, not too much but a meaningful amount, and is quite flexible with deadlines...because most group classes are small, he gauges student understanding pretty well during classwork.

 

What a great resource! What is his pricing like? 

[quark]

What a great resource! What is his pricing like? 

 

We started quite a while back for one-to-one so it remained at a lower rate for us over the years vs his current prices. He used to have the prices listed on his site but he has removed it so it might be best to contact him to ask. His group classes were $15/hr or $30/week last year. It wasn't cheap seeing it was a year-long course but it was very well done, with a group of kids kiddo was comfortable with. Also difficult to find a combo with abstract algebra (kiddo's deep interest).