*Lulu* Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Have you seen what I look like after pitting cherries for pie? It's like Carrie. Cherries definitely evil. My family's chocolate pie is divine. Looks like our doctrine aligns ok. Perfect! Just steer clear of Kathleen. I hear she's suspected of eating vanilla cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I can only forgive you if you offer that apology with a side of sweet chocolate cake. :P I am not a baker, but I have tacos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I actually am not a cake person. I share the cake so it doesn't go to waste. I'll bake cakes for you and you make the coffee. I usually make 2 cakes per year. Note that I have 2 kids. I have made more this year because baking is a way to spend time with my niece and because she wanted to make her mom birthday cupcakes. I have to make 4 since dh requires a cake on his birthday. I always have to convince them that they cannot make a cake for me on my birthday because I don't want it and it's MY birthday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 My family's chocolate pie is divine. Um, recipe, please..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted December 7, 2014 Author Share Posted December 7, 2014 Perfect! Just steer clear of Kathleen. I hear she's suspected of eating vanilla cake. I was really confused there for a minute because Katie is short for Kathleen and I was trying to figure out how to steer clear of myself. That said, I dunno as I can get on board with any sort of cake hate, least of all against another Kathleen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 i think guilt comes from within and without. Some of their guilt is because they are going against the law of God written on their hearts. I cannot imagine the horror of what happened to you. I know that it is natural to feel that things that happen to us are our fault. My oldest Ds was rejected by his birth father and felt that it was because of some failing on his part, which was not true. I was made to feel that I was tainted because I was divorced. You should not have to feel any guilt or shame because someone sinned against you in such a disgusting way, and the people who tried to lay the blame at your feet were incredibly wrong to do so. I am struggling to comprehend just how horrible the bolded statement is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I actually am not a cake person. I share the cake so it doesn't go to waste. I'll bake cakes for you and you make the coffee. I usually make 2 cakes per year. Note that I have 2 kids. I have made more this year because baking is a way to spend time with my niece and because she wanted to make her mom birthday cupcakes. I'm not a cake person either. If anything I'm in it for the frosting. I buy two cakes per year for the same reason as you. But I enjoy the social aspects of my online cake group here. So I take a thin slice and well...don't ask, don't tell. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 i hope you aren't saying that my belief that homosexuality is wrong could cause a suicide. That is a pretty heavy burden to place on someone with a different opinion. Maybe you are talking about something more idk. The only people in this country who are publicly bashing gays over and over and over ad nauseum are the conservative Christians. You do the math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I am not a baker, but I have tacos? Will you be serving booze with the tacos? I can overlook a lot if sipping an adult beverage. DH and my invented drinking games are why family get togethers end with us smiling instead of calculating the legal ramifications of stabbing someone's thigh with your fork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted December 7, 2014 Author Share Posted December 7, 2014 For the first time ever, I've done run out of likes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 So everyone keep quiet? Yes. I'm pretty sure Jesus never commanded anyone to go out and preach against gay people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Will you be serving booze with the tacos? I can overlook a lot if sipping an adult beverage. DH and my invented drinking games are why family get togethers end with us smiling instead of calculating the legal ramifications of stabbing someone's thigh with your fork. Absolutely! I have margaritas mixed up and ready! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I was really confused there for a minute because Katie is short for Kathleen and I was trying to figure out how to steer clear of myself. If you figure it out I'd like to know. I keep telling me to clean up the front room and I am so over hearing about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Oh, are you Church of England? Cake or death? Eta: Well, we're out of cake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Initially God gave the law on tablets of stone, and subsequently the law was written on human hearts. Many of the feelings of guilt/shame we have come from going against what our conscience knows to be true and right. Wow. That is definitely in the top ten most horrible and inhuman things I've read on here, and I've been here for several years now. So, gay kids kill themselves because they're naughty and God makes them feel guilty until they just can't take any more? Yeah... I'm not a Christian, but I'm guessing Jesus would REALLY not like you. Incidentally, I'm a bisexual Pagan-Buddhist-Agnostic, and I don't feel any guilt whatsoever over it. I guess God must have missed my heart when he was going around carving shit on peoples' internal organs, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted December 7, 2014 Author Share Posted December 7, 2014 But now I have likes back. This is weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 We cake people can coexist with the pie puritans as long as you consistently support our stance on the divinity of chocolate and the evils of cherry. If you throw in the blasphemy that is lemon filling or that awful, awful, sickly sweet strawberry filling in white cakes with buttercream frosting, I'm totally in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Well, I don't believe you shouldn't teach your kids your beliefs. I certainly teach my kids mine. However, I also teach them that others feel differently, and that that's to be respected. Do you teach your son that about homosexuality? If you don't, then you need to accept that you're part of the culture of intolerance that contributes to the bullying we're talking about here. Yes I certainly teach my son that others have different beliefs than we do. He lives that reality as we are not mainstream. I am not mean to anyone nor would I ever tolerate my son bullying anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Wow. That is definitely in the top ten most horrible and inhuman things I've read on here, and I've been here for several years now. So, gay kids kill themselves because they're naughty and God makes them feel guilty until they just can't take any more? Yeah... I'm not a Christian, but I'm guessing Jesus would REALLY not like you. Incidentally, I'm a bisexual Pagan-Buddhist-Agnostic, and I don't feel any guilt whatsoever over it. I guess God must have missed my heart when he was going around carving shit on peoples' internal organs, huh? I give up on this thread. It makes my heart hurt. I'm going to go read The Dark Is Rising (oh, the irony!!) and eat chocolate chips until my DH gets home from his party. I really, really wish I had cake though *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 But now I have likes back. This is weird. They're on a 24-hour expiration. So if you used some 24 hours ago they're back now. Don't go nuts with them! You may only have a couple. Do not "Like" this post no matter how wonderful and helpful you may find it. :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Absolutely! I have margaritas mixed up and ready! Pass one over here with some tacos. And a slice of cake--with rainbow frosting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 But now I have likes back. This is weird. Or...... Maybe the miraculous return of likes is a sign that those of us who are cake eaters should covert to being people of the pie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Wow. That is definitely in the top ten most horrible and inhuman things I've read on here, and I've been here for several years now. So, gay kids kill themselves because they're naughty and God makes them feel guilty until they just can't take any more? Yeah... I'm not a Christian, but I'm guessing Jesus would REALLY not like you. Incidentally, I'm a bisexual Pagan-Buddhist-Agnostic, and I don't feel any guilt whatsoever over it. I guess God must have missed my heart when he was going around carving shit on peoples' internal organs, huh? You seem very hostile and unwilling to accept that others believe differently than you do. People do kill themselves over guilt....real or imagined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy in FL. Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I think we just come at this from such different perspectives. I believe that God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have eternally shared a communion with one another that was so perfect that God wanted to share it, so He created mankind. I believe that the chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. The chief end is not our happiness. God does not desire us to be unhappy, but He is not going to change His laws because we are not happy living according to them. I think that mankind can be the happiest, most joyful, and most fulfilled living the way God intended us to live. I am not going to pretend it is otherwise to make myself or anyone else happier or more comfortable with their choices that go against God's best for us. I do not believe any of these things to hurt others. For me, as a Christian, the most important thing in my life is Jesus Christ. If you are living your life in a way that is not in agreement with what is taught in God's Word, then I am not going to support, condone, or agree with it. I just cannot do it. I do not believe that the Bible condones slavery, polygamy, or a lot of other things people want to say it does. I believe there is one race -- the human race. You are free to intermarry within cultures/ethnicities. You are not free to marry those of another religion. We were members of an African American church for 3 years and if our sons found a godly wife among them or any other ethnicity then praise the Lord! I do believe that the Bible clearly state that certain people will not inherit the Kingdom of God. There is a list which included liars, fornicators, drunkards, and homosexuals. Anyone who does not repent (turn from) their sin will not inherit the Kingdom. I didn't make the rules, but I believe in the One who did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I give up on this thread. It makes my heart hurt. I'm going to go read The Dark Is Rising (oh, the irony!!) and eat chocolate chips until my DH gets home from his party. I really, really wish I had cake though *sigh* Mug cakes. As long as you have a microwave and basic ingredients.....cake is never more than a few minutes away! (It's kind of like those little portable communion water/wine sets.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I give up on this thread. It makes my heart hurt. I'm going to go read The Dark Is Rising (oh, the irony!!) and eat chocolate chips until my DH gets home from his party. I really, really wish I had cake though *sigh* I made a pan of fudge. I'm willing to share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemiSweet Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I am struggling to comprehend just how horrible the bolded statement is. I'm out of likes, but, this times a million. God makes the gays the way they are and then causes them to want to kill themselves from the guilt? Oh... My heart hurts. It must be very difficult to be a person who believes such things. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Pass one over here with some tacos. And a slice of cake--with rainbow frosting. *hands over a taco and a margarita* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 We cake people can coexist with the pie puritans as long as you consistently support our stance on the divinity of chocolate and the evils of cherry. Well, you are far more tolerant than most cake people, who insist that all must comply with their standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Or...... Maybe the miraculous return of likes is a sign that those of us who are cake eaters should covert to being people of the pie. Maybe if the pie fed multitudes I could consider it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I give up on this thread. It makes my heart hurt. I'm going to go read The Dark Is Rising (oh, the irony!!) and eat chocolate chips until my DH gets home from his party. I really, really wish I had cake though *sigh* I think I'm going to get caught up on watching Constantine. I have no chocolate, sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I think we just come at this from such different perspectives. I believe that God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have eternally shared a communion with one another that was so perfect that God wanted to share it, so He created mankind. I believe that the chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. The chief end is not our happiness. God does not desire us to be unhappy, but He is not going to change His laws because we are not happy living according to them. I think that mankind can be the happiest, most joyful, and most fulfilled living the way God intended us to live. I am not going to pretend it is otherwise to make myself or anyone else happier or more comfortable with their choices that go against God's best for us. I do not believe any of these things to hurt others. For me, as a Christian, the most important thing in my life is Jesus Christ. If you are living your life in a way that is not in agreement with what is taught in God's Word, then I am not going to support, condone, or agree with it. I just cannot do it. I do not believe that the Bible condones slavery, polygamy, or a lot of other things people want to say it does. I believe there is one race -- the human race. You are free to intermarry within cultures/ethnicities. You are not free to marry those of another religion. We were members of an African American church for 3 years and if our sons found a godly wife among them or any other ethnicity then praise the Lord! I do believe that the Bible clearly state that certain people will not inherit the Kingdom of God. There is a list which included liars, fornicators, drunkards, and homosexuals. Anyone who does not repent (turn from) their sin will not inherit the Kingdom. I didn't make the rules, but I believe in the One who did. It isn't "guilt" that causes gay teens to kills themselves. However the bizarre need that people like you have to call other people "deviant" (or whatever your word of choice) does. You may think you are preaching the love of Christ but you are actually preaching the hate of your church. Funny how Jesus never said a word about homosexuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 The idea that God made my daughter the way she is and would then condemn her for it--I cannot believe in such a God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy in FL. Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 From my perspective it doesn't even make the top 100. I don't appreciate the way you misconstrued what I said. A conscience is a good thing in my opinion. Just like our sense of touch which keeps us from burning ourselves on a hot stove, our conscience can help keep us from doing things that will harm us. Wow. That is definitely in the top ten most horrible and inhuman things I've read on here, and I've been here for several years now. So, gay kids kill themselves because they're naughty and God makes them feel guilty until they just can't take any more? Yeah... I'm not a Christian, but I'm guessing Jesus would REALLY not like you. Incidentally, I'm a bisexual Pagan-Buddhist-Agnostic, and I don't feel any guilt whatsoever over it. I guess God must have missed my heart when he was going around carving shit on peoples' internal organs, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Well, you are far more tolerant than most cake people, who insist that all must comply with their standards. My cake is the TRUTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 You seem very hostile and unwilling to accept that others believe differently than you do. People do kill themselves over guilt....real or imagined. Of course I accept that others believe differently than I do. But saying that gay kids kill themselves because, deep down, they know they're sinful and bad is... well, I don't have words for what that is that wouldn't get me banned. Let's just go with abhorrent. From my perspective, it's like watching a bully torment another kid until that kid finally can't take anymore and kills himself, then hearing the bully say, with no trace of guilt, "Yeah, he killed himself because he knows he's a loser." Try to imagine the level of rage something like that would make you feel, and then you'll have an idea of how I feel right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 But now I have likes back. This is weird. It's a Festivus miracle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Exactly! If you are unwilling to bake wedding cakes for certain people, despite the law saying otherwise, than for heaven's sake, don't open a wedding cake business! If you are unwilling to rent rooms to interracial couples (remember, this isn't about their race...it is about their action, marrying each other. A black couple would be allowed, or a white couple, just not an interracial couple..so this isn't an imutable characteristic), then don't open a hotel. There are plenty of religious groups that don't do certain jobs because it interferes with their religion. If that is a sacrifice, oh well, religion often requires sacrifice. There is no consitutional ammendment saying you are entitled to open a bakery, not if you don't want to obey the law. Hear, hear!!!! As a side note, I belong to the Javaist religion. We believe in the supernatural powers of coffee beans brewed in hot water. We believe tea is of the dark side. Fortunately for us, we can own businesses, should we be so inclined, devoted exclusively to coffee. However, as we are a peace loving religion we do not attempt to ascertain who are not purists and imbibe of the forbidden. We have a don't, ask don't tell policy concerning tea. It is not our business if you drink tea, but you are committing an offsense if you do, but the offense is against the coffee bean, not us personally. Religiously, we are related to the cacao brotherhood, and the cheesecake sisterhood. I happen to hold membership in all three. :) Sneetches people. Read about the sneetches and learn from their mistakes. As for Jesus, he was "that guy" from the wrong side of the tracks who hung out with the two most socially outcast groups of his day...lepers and prostitutes and then brought us some timeless wisdom on the subject of how to live which was based on love, compassion, kindness, and mercy. No where in that message did it say, "discriminate against lepers and prostitutes". Thus it appears that the message was, "Be nice." Dog weddings???? Well, when you think you've heard it all, something reminds you that you really, really haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 From my perspective it doesn't even make the top 100. I don't appreciate the way you misconstrued what I said. A conscience is a good thing in my opinion. Just like our sense of touch which keeps us from burning ourselves on a hot stove, our conscience can help keep us from doing things that will harm us. I didn't misconstrue it. I get exactly what you said, and that's why it angers me as much as it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemiSweet Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I think we just come at this from such different perspectives. I believe that God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have eternally shared a communion with one another that was so perfect that God wanted to share it, so He created mankind. I believe that the chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. The chief end is not our happiness. God does not desire us to be unhappy, but He is not going to change His laws because we are not happy living according to them. I think that mankind can be the happiest, most joyful, and most fulfilled living the way God intended us to live. I am not going to pretend it is otherwise to make myself or anyone else happier or more comfortable with their choices that go against God's best for us. I do not believe any of these things to hurt others. For me, as a Christian, the most important thing in my life is Jesus Christ. If you are living your life in a way that is not in agreement with what is taught in God's Word, then I am not going to support, condone, or agree with it. I just cannot do it. I do not believe that the Bible condones slavery, polygamy, or a lot of other things people want to say it does. I believe there is one race -- the human race. You are free to intermarry within cultures/ethnicities. You are not free to marry those of another religion. We were members of an African American church for 3 years and if our sons found a godly wife among them or any other ethnicity then praise the Lord! I do believe that the Bible clearly state that certain people will not inherit the Kingdom of God. There is a list which included liars, fornicators, drunkards, and homosexuals. Anyone who does not repent (turn from) their sin will not inherit the Kingdom. I didn't make the rules, but I believe in the One who did. What? Man changes gods law pretty much any time it's convenient. I doubt you or any sane person would marry your daughter off to her rapist? And the bible most certainly does condone the atrocities you listed, unless we are reading different things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 The idea that God made my daughter the way she is and would then condemn her for it--I cannot believe in such a God. Well that is not what I believe but I do not think you really care what I belive. I am sorry you are so upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I made a pan of fudge. I'm willing to share. You're the bestest! Also, you just reminded me that I have all the actual MAKINGS of fudge! And no DH around to silently judge me while I make it! And no kids up to beg me to share it! I wonder how quickly I could git 'er done... *hands over a taco and a margarita* Could...could I have a margarita too? Right now I might actually take that over fudge, if it's a sweet one. DH goes too heavy on the sour mix. I think I'm going to get caught up on watching Constantine. I have no chocolate, sadly. Veritaserum has fudge and is a sharer. It's not cake, but it should do the job. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy in FL. Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I know that I have free will and I choose to commit each and every one of my sins. I could try to pass the buck and blame them on someone else, but they're my choices. Silly, he doesn't make them that way! They choose to be sinners. Gosh, get with the program! At least I know my unmarried fornicating self will get to accompany sinner-daughter to hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 The only people in this country who are publicly bashing gays over and over and over ad nauseum are the conservative Christians. You do the math. I am not bashing anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy in FL. Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 No, it doesn't. What? Man changes gods law pretty much any time it's convenient. I doubt you or any sane person would marry your daughter off to her rapist? And the bible most certainly does condone the atrocities you listed, unless we are reading different things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Yes. I'm pretty sure Jesus never commanded anyone to go out and preach against gay people. Not something I do. This was a conversation on an anonymous message board about a topic you and I disagree on. So you want to be able to voice your opinion on here but me keep quiet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy in FL. Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 You did. We will just have to disagree. Jesus said that His followers would be hated just as He was, so I'm ok with that. I didn't misconstrue it. I get exactly what you said, and that's why it angers me as much as it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I haven't had fudge in ages. Growing up, my Grandma used to make it from cocoa powder, butter, sugar, salt and vanilla. It was so yummy. On a non food note, awhile back I read a book on compassion by Karen Armstrong. Basically, it all boils down to the Golden Rule. You can check out her charter for compassion and other resources at http://charterforcompassion.org/global-compassion-movement Here's her Ted Talk https://www.ted.com/participate/ted-prize/prize-winning-wishes/charter-for-compassion-karen-armstrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 You did. We will just have to disagree. Jesus said that His followers would be hated just as He was, so I'm ok with that. I love Jesus. I don't particularly care for those who sully His name while harming others. And I always groan at the "we are hated because we speak The Truth" line when in reality you are disliked because you seek glory through acting awful towards other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 You did. We will just have to disagree. Jesus said that His followers would be hated just as He was, so I'm ok with that. You know, I wasn't going to wade back in here, but I can't pass this one by. This sounds to me like just another way of saying, "I don't have to worry about what I say or whom I hurt with it because Jesus says I'm right." I feel the same way about the people around me who say, "I'm not responsible for your feelings, you're responsible for them" to pass the buck on the fact that they're saying nasty, hurtful things to people and then blaming the victim when they get upset. Please be aware that that's what that statement comes off as and take responsibility for how your words hurt others. Is that what Jesus would do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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