Science and DD....Update and question post #56

[OneStepAtATime]

DD is struggling with Science (and we are currently using a blend of Elementary and basic Middle School materials).  Frequently, concepts and terms just don't mean anything to her.  And I am terrible at science.  When she asks a question I frequently have no answer and we have to look it up.  Then often neither one of us fully understands the explanation so we have more looking up to do.  And when I finally understand it she usually still doesn't and is now frustrated and demoralized.  Then I have to find different ways to approach the material.  And one page of one lesson may take hours.  Watching videos absolutely is not helping.  In fact, she says it confuses her more because everyone talks too fast.  She doesn't do well with audio books either.  (I know we need an assessment for possible APD).

 

She and her brother are signed up for a Marine Science course on line through Landry, just a fun intro thing really, for the Spring.  I already ordered the books in the hopes that I can start now with vocabulary and concept building.  Since the class only meets once a week, I can scaffold her to help her through.  And the teacher may be able to answer questions more effectively during their office hours than I could.  If that goes well, or even sort of o.k., I guess we may try an on-line science course for High School.  We have some generic credits through Landry that could be used without costing additional money.

 

But DH wants secular, Landry isn't secular at all, and I don't know of any secular on-line science courses set up like Landry.  With High School level science looming I am at a loss as to how to proceed.  Since I am in Texas, technically I can make the graduation requirements anything I want, so I was thinking I might even enroll her in a Middle School level science program (if I can find a secular one like Landry) and see if she could survive at that level with scaffolding since she is not planning on going into a STEM major.  She DOES want to go to college, though, and trying to meet the normal track graduation requirements listed on the TEA website has been our goal.  I don't know if using more Middle School level material would be detrimental in the end or even allowed for applying for college.   It certainly would not be supporting the High School level science needs. of the TEA graduation requirements.  She WOULD be covering the same topics, though.  Just at Middle School level.  Any suggestions/ideas?

[maize]

Have you seen the Power Basics series? They are meant to cover high school level content but at a fourth grade reading level. Maybe that would help with comprehension? I don't have any personal experience with them, I have only read reviews.

 

http://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?subject=11&category=2736

[chiguirre]

I'd try Walch Power Basics. They're written at a lower reading level but cover the essentials of high school science courses. Amazon carries them.

 

Landry uses secular science books for both high school physics and all of their advanced level (AP, but not official) classes, even biology. This may not be much use to you, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

 

Another option is CK12's online textbooks. They imbed video clips into the text which illustrates the main points. It may make things more understandable for both of you. I'd try them first, because they're free.

 

Good luck!

[OneStepAtATime]

Have you seen the Power Basics series? They are meant to cover high school level content but at a fourth grade reading level. Maybe that would help with comprehension? I don't have any personal experience with them, I have only read reviews.

 

http://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?subject=11&category=2736

Thank you for the link, maize.  I had looked at them briefly a while back.  I have not used them and don't know anyone personally that has but they look like they might work.  I am confused as to what is included in the Biology Power Basic single, vs the individual material....I just hate to keep buying material.  Maybe I will get the student text used somewhere and run her through a chapter, see if it works better for her.

 

DD is getting really resistant to me teaching her science.  Heavy sigh.  I'm a bit burned out on this one myself.  It takes so much energy from both of us to get her through Barton, and math, and history and literature and even typing, because none of it comes really easily to her (although Math and Barton are certainly smoother than they ever have been before).  Then all the extras she is involved in that give her meaning and purpose take up a lot of time, too.  Couple that with trying to keep DS in the more advanced material he craves while still providing all the remediation and scaffolding he needs and I admit I just don't have a lot left over for science.  

[Heathermomster]

Marine Science should be a easy to supplement with secular materials. When DS was taking life science, we watched a ton of documentaries through Netflix and Amazon Prime. You could have a field day using trade books to study biomes and the animal kingdom. Why can't you compromise by remaining in the Landry class and bumping it up? Holt sells a Life Science text which is very easy to read, understand, and cheap. I would be tempted to keep a science journal with the kids. Do you live near an aquarium? Aquariums typically host classes for students too. Your DD is an artist? If so, she could draw the habitats or whatever she is into. Both of your kids are logic staged, so enjoy the science year. High school science feels so much more confining..ugh..

[OneStepAtATime]

I'd try Walch Power Basics. They're written at a lower reading level but cover the essentials of high school science courses. Amazon carries them.

 

Landry uses secular science books for both high school physics and all of their advanced level (AP, but not official) classes, even biology. This may not be much use to you, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

 

Another option is CK12's online textbooks. They imbed video clips into the text which illustrates the main points. It may make things more understandable for both of you. I'd try them first, because they're free.

 

Good luck!

Thanks chiguirre.  I appreciate the input.

 

I am feeling a bit worn out today.  The support is welcome.  :)

[OneStepAtATime]

Marine Science should be a easy to supplement with secular materials. When DS was taking life science, we watched a ton of documentaries through Netflix and Amazon Prime. You could have a field day using trade books to study biomes and the animal kingdom. Why can't you compromise by remaining in the Landry class and bumping it up? Holt sells a Life Science text which is very easy to read, understand, and cheap. I would be tempted to keep a science journal with the kids. Do you live near an aquarium? Aquariums typically host classes for students too. Your DD is an artist? If so, she could draw the habitats or whatever she is into. Both of your kids are logic staged, so enjoy the science year. High school science feels so much more confining..ugh..

We live about 2 hours from an Aquarium but it is a good one.  The kids enjoyed it the last time we were there.  And DD does love to sketch and model with clay.  Good idea.  DS used to keep a science journal with me scribing.  We could start again, but with both kids.  We will stay with the Marine Science class for Spring.  It is only for one semester though.   I just don't know what to do for High School this next fall...I appreciate all the suggestions as I try to brain storm this.  DH wants a solid plan or he wants them back in school (and yes I know that wouldn't fix anything and would probably make DD's situation 10 times worse).

 

I wish documentaries worked for DD.  She just keeps saying people talk too fast.  She even got really muddled during CNN student news yesterday.  I had to keep pausing and explaining what they were saying.

[maize]

I looked at the graduation requirements on the TEA website, it appears that three high school science credits would be required. You might consider using this year and next to really focus on remediation and skill subjects, and save science for 10th-12th grades. 

[Heathermomster]

This might be too babyish, but Scholastic is currently running their dollar e-book sell.  Scholastic sells biome and animal booklets.  IDK, maybe check that out?

 

For high school, you could look at books by AGS publishing. 

[EKS]

And I am terrible at science. 

 

I'm going to be honest here.  This is the core of the problem.  Particularly if you're planning to homeschool long term (like through high school), I'd recommend putting your energy into shoring up your own understanding of science.  The Teaching Company's Joy of Science is a good overview.  I would also recommend that you work through a strong middle school science program like CPO before attempting to teach science yourself. 

[OneStepAtATime]

I'm going to be honest here.  This is the core of the problem.  Particularly if you're planning to homeschool long term (like through high school), I'd recommend putting your energy into shoring up your own understanding of science.  The Teaching Company's Joy of Science is a good overview.  I would also recommend that you work through a strong middle school science program like CPO before attempting to teach science yourself. 

Agreed.  With her learning challenges and my extreme weakness in this area we are just sort of floundering.  And poor DD just doesn't seem to retain ANYTHING with DVD's or read alouds in this subject.  Everything has to be taught in tiny increments, very slowly, with lots of hands on and tons of review.  If I had a stronger grasp of science I could adapt as we go, pull in additional resources as needed, etc.

 

I have no idea when I will have time to squeeze in learning more in science for myself, though.  I am barely treading water with getting us through the other subjects and running the business and our personal finances, etc., etc.  Bedtime for me is usually about midnight and I am up at 6.  DH helping out is not an option at all, for many reasons.

 

Heavy sigh....

[OneStepAtATime]

I looked at the graduation requirements on the TEA website, it appears that three high school science credits would be required. You might consider using this year and next to really focus on remediation and skill subjects, and save science for 10th-12th grades. 

Those are the requirements for a really basic, bare bones diploma in the State of Texas.  Students graduating with that diploma are warned that most Texas colleges will either require remedial courses or will not accept a student until the Mid tier diploma criteria are met.  I know the local University has stopped even offering remedial courses and is telling students they will have to meet the middle tier requirements to be accepted even provisionally.  That means 4 years of science, 4 years of math, 4 years of English, etc.  We can go the bare bones route (and that would be more realistic in the grand scheme of things) but DD really wants to try for the mid-tier diploma.  She doesn't want to cut off her options.  

[PeterPan]

OneStep, no sig...  I can't remember the ages of your kids!  Honestly, it seems like the thing that is driving your stress is this assumption of grade level, when she must start earning high school credits, that high school is looming.  So solve the real problem and agree either to punt or add a grade 13 to let it pan out.  Then dump science ENTIRELY except for something hands-on of HER CHOOSING (like raising a goat for 4H).  Put that time into Barton, bang out Barton, come back to science later.

 

And maybe investigate some cognitive therapies in the meantime.  (PACE, visualization, VT, something)  I'm not trying to make your life more crazy.  I'm saying you have to get OFF someone else's rat race in order to run your own race.  And maybe building some more foundational skills would get you farther, rather than pushing harder on curriculum.  Reading is foundational.  Cognitive skills (working memory, visualization, sequencing, etc.) are foundational. 

 

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time.  I'm not trying to load one more thing on you, either.  I'm saying looking at your assumptions and question them and see if, by questioning those assumptions about what has to be, you can have more focus on the foundations and letting the rest come with time.

 

And yes, for science it might be time to back up to picture books.  Pick a topic for each quarter, reading the 1st-3rd grade reading level books on that topic, tell her to DRAW, WRITE, NARRATE whatever she read about that day.  If she can read 1st-3rd grade books, that will work and she'll learn a TON.  And the information will be organized in her mind.  If she doesn't want to draw/write/narrate, change the technology to make it more hip...  Make a video, a powerpoint, a rap, a flip book, a book with images and text that you print through shutterfly, an artistic presentation with watercolors, sculpt the topic in clay, a display board, whatever works.

 

People learn via connections.  It's got to connect to something she already knows or is interested in or has experience with.  If she happens to have something she DOES like, no matter how eccentric, I would pursue that and let that become science.  Like if she likes raising rabbits for 4H, all her science comes through that.  (genetics, biology, breeding, nutrition, life cycle, chemistry of rabbit poop for determining health, chemistry of nutrition for rabbit health, physics of rabbit jumping and rabbit cages, etc. etc..)

 

Have you tried putting the videos on but putting them on a smaller screen (computer, laptop) and having her wear earbuds to get the sound directly into her ears, with no background noise?  Does that change the result?

[maize]

OneStep, no sig... I can't remember the ages of your kids! Honestly, it seems like the thing that is driving your stress is this assumption of grade level, when she must start earning high school credits, that high school is looming. So solve the real problem and agree either to punt or add a grade 13 to let it pan out. Then dump science ENTIRELY except for something hands-on of HER CHOOSING (like raising a goat for 4H). Put that time into Barton, bang out Barton, come back to science later.

This could work, giving you more time and space for building foundation skills.

 

By the way, the high school I graduated from was a private IB school that regularly sent students to top colleges around the world. Every year we had several thirteenth year students who stayed on an extra year in order to get their exam scores up to where they needed them for the schools they wanted to apply to. It's OK to take some extra time if that is what it takes to reach your goal rather than settling for something lesser.

[OneStepAtATime]

Thanks everyone.  I agree, waiting makes the most sense.  In fact, if I had my druthers we would take the next two years to really solidify the foundational skills and move through everything at a pace that makes more sense for her situation.  Things are starting to really come together in so many ways.  I don't want to rush and lose what we have already fought so hard to gain.  Barton is really helping her reading and spelling, math is finally making sense to her (yeah!!!!!!!), etc.  Going slow, breaking things down into much small pieces is helping so much in so many areas.  I am certain if we could do the same with science things would finally start to gel.  (I wish we had pulled her out much sooner and started this process years and years ago but oh, well, at least things are working now).  If we could take two additional years or even an extra year and a half before starting HS level material things would be so much better.

 

But DD and DH don't want to delay.  DD repeated a grade already.  She is 14 and would have been in 8th grade if she had stayed in brick and mortar.  She will be 15 in the fall of next year.  She is very aware of that.  She wants to begin 9th grade next year.  And DD still has friends from her brick and mortar days.  She is very aware of when and where they are.  She wants to still be at the same grade level as they are.  And unfortunately one of her closer friends from that time is now homeschooling and her parents have her on a faster track.  She is already taking 9th grade level courses and intends to graduate early.  At the moment DD would be graduating at 18, which is perfectly normal (she would have been 17 if she hadn't repeated), but she will turn 19 that fall.  I am working to try and convince her to take an extra year and graduate at 19, then start college that fall (at 20) or even take a year off to explore what she wants to do but it is a hard sell.  And since DH is not on board with delaying that makes it doubly difficult.

 

In laying everything out, I think we could pull it off in most subjects.  I don't think she would be mastering anything in the content areas but we could probably make it.  Math would be a challenge, but maybe.  I think it is a bad idea, but we might could make it happen.  Science, though, no way.  At least not the way things are right now.  It is so disheartening to see her sweet face stare at me with a complete lack of understanding and sadness and frustration when we cover this subject.  She used to love science in early elementary.  Not any more.

[PeterPan]

You could let the psych sort it out when you get evals.  That's the sort of situation we're facing too, with ds' dyslexia *and* the fall b-day.  It "feels" like he has been retained once because he's on the older end of his grade.  Even the psych said not to grade retain him, but I DEFINITELY will play the grade 13 card if it's necessary.

 

How many hours a day is she getting over Barton?  Are you doing multiple short sessions?  Do you feel there is an intellectual disability or something physically holding her back (APD, 2 horns where her ears should be, teenage hormones, whatever), or is it something increasing the Barton would help?  Is her increase proportional to the number of Barton sessions you do?  As in if she wants the progress, will doing more Barton help?  

 

Sorry, that doesn't get you sleep.  Just brainstorming with you.

[OneStepAtATime]

You could let the psych sort it out when you get evals.  That's the sort of situation we're facing too, with ds' dyslexia *and* the fall b-day.  It "feels" like he has been retained once because he's on the older end of his grade.  Even the psych said not to grade retain him, but I DEFINITELY will play the grade 13 card if it's necessary.

 

How many hours a day is she getting over Barton?  Are you doing multiple short sessions?  Do you feel there is an intellectual disability or something physically holding her back (APD, 2 horns where her ears should be, teenage hormones, whatever), or is it something increasing the Barton would help?  Is her increase proportional to the number of Barton sessions you do?  As in if she wants the progress, will doing more Barton help?  

 

Sorry, that doesn't get you sleep.  Just brainstorming with you.

It is so weird because I honestly don't know what the problem is.  She makes some amazing intellectual leaps in some things.  She notices things that I don't.  She sees things I never would.  But in some areas there is just this kind of block.  I don't think increasing her time with Barton will help much.  She is doing well with Barton.  I don't want to rush the material since she seems to really need time for each lesson to percolate a bit.  

 

But I read the science material to her most of the time anyway so issues with decoding are not what is tripping her up.  She doesn't have to decode.  I read the bulk of the material to her.  I guess maybe whatever makes listening to audio books and documentaries less than effective is also really making her struggle when I read material to her.  That makes sense.  But even when she is reading material that is at her reading level there have been several times she reads and re-reads and it takes forever for the words to actually have any meaning.  She can decode them and just the word in isolation may make sense but in context, especially anything science or history related, just seems almost like gobbledygook to her.  

 

I thought if I read the material TO her, and went fairly slowly, she would do o.k while her reading skills improve.  That is what we do with literature and it does help.  We can pause and discuss things, I am good at editing and emphasizing on the fly, etc.  But with science it just isn't working.  Like the other day I was reading her a passage regarding cells.  She has done a lot with cells.  She had a great science teacher in elementary, very hands on.  She has constructed cells with clay.  She has watched videos on cells.  We have reviewed vocabulary and concepts.  Examined things under a microscope.  Etc.  The material I was reading to her was review.  But at the end of the page she was in tears and telling me she didn't understand what I was saying.  And she couldn't answer a single question I asked.  

[MomatHWTK]

Take a look at Learning.com's offerings.  The have Aha!Science and Adaptive Technologies Science.  http://www.learning.com/marketplace/

 

Also, my kids enjoyed Plato's Middle School Science courses. 

[Princess Ariel]

I can understand where you are coming from and I am right there with you!   Science is the one class that has been by the wayside for ds 15, much more than I would have hoped for.  My ds is older than your dd and we have really not done anything formally with science so far because we are working so hard on the other areas  and have been for years. He's had the evals a few times, he's done the therapies.  He is still struggling and the adhd meds are currently  not doing much for him.  I don't intend  to take over your thread but I"m also open to ideas for my ds. I doubt he will be college bound but I would like to have something that looks like it's a high school education on a transcript at the end of these four years. Just want to let you know you are not the only one struggling in this area! :grouphug:  :grouphug:

I will look at the suggestions given so far!

[PeterPan]

She might not be visualizing, which is hampering her comprehension.  She might not be attending (which is not volitional but neurological).  It might be a mixture of both.  She might have a wicked low processing speed, like the kind of low that makes saints out of women and turns others into (insert gruff profession) workers with blasphemous mouths.   :lol:   

 

You've also wondered about APD, which I can't help you with. 

 

And the problem is without that answer you can't target your change.  If her processing speed is crazy low, then meds, maybe IM, meds, meds, did we mention meds? If it's attention, that her brain can't ATTEND while she's reading said utterly boring description of cells, then meds, techniques for increasing attention with utterly boring/disinteresting material (4QSR whatever that thing is I always forget).  

 

If there's a lack of visualization affecting comprehension, that can be due to developmental vision problems and may respond to VT.  If VT doesn't take care of it, later V/V.

 

All of these things can be happening at once on top of the dyslexia.  Or other things I know nothing about.

 

Elephants.  Look for elephants in the room.  Look for elephant wranglers who help you find elephants.

[PeterPan]

I can understand where you are coming from and I am right there with you!   Science is the one class that has been by the wayside for ds 15, much more than I would have hoped for.  My ds is older than your dd and we have really not done anything formally with science so far because we are working so hard on the other areas  and have been for years. He's had the evals a few times, he's done the therapies.  He is still struggling and the adhd meds are currently  not doing much for him.  I don't intend  to take over your thread but I"m also open to ideas for my ds. I doubt he will be college bound but I would like to have something that looks like it's a high school education on a transcript at the end of these four years. Just want to let you know you are not the only one struggling in this area! :grouphug:  :grouphug:

I will look at the suggestions given so far!

I gave up and made her a totally unusual syllabus.  I'm throwing in labs, yes, but everything else is unusual and fits what she can engage with.  I COULD have turned it into a "now we will read the text" kinda thing, and I have no fault/beef/issue with that.  I just decided it wasn't worth it in our house.  I've noticed many bright SN people are lifelong learners in the sciences *in their own way*.  It's just their way doesn't happen to be the way schools endorse.  Schools say the only path is a textbook.  Lifelong people do apprenticeships, read articles in periodicals, watch dvds, go to lectures, all sorts of things.  I just don't see it as this tight, one dimensional thing.  I don't think when my dd reads essays from the Best Nature Essays of x year series that she's SKIPPING science.  She's just doing DIFFERENT science.  Different is not wrong, just different.  And I say if she learns something and does labs, she did a lab science.  

 

My decision was that I would rather have a lifelong learner who actually wants to connect to those topics than to have someone who surveyed them the typical way and concluded she hated them.  So we're reading books about the flower industry and how history connects to the topics and essays from periodicals and watching dvds, and you know it's good enough.  

 

Or some college is gonna hate her.  Whatever.  It's all going to pan out.  A college that hates the way she learns probably isn't where she belongs anyway.

[OneStepAtATime]

I can understand where you are coming from and I am right there with you!   Science is the one class that has been by the wayside for ds 15, much more than I would have hoped for.  My ds is older than your dd and we have really not done anything formally with science so far because we are working so hard on the other areas  and have been for years. He's had the evals a few times, he's done the therapies.  He is still struggling and the adhd meds are currently  not doing much for him.  I don't intend  to take over your thread but I"m also open to ideas for my ds. I doubt he will be college bound but I would like to have something that looks like it's a high school education on a transcript at the end of these four years. Just want to let you know you are not the only one struggling in this area! :grouphug:  :grouphug:

I will look at the suggestions given so far!

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Heathermomster]

Agreed.  With her learning challenges and my extreme weakness in this area we are just sort of floundering.  And poor DD just doesn't seem to retain ANYTHING with DVD's or read alouds in this subject.  Everything has to be taught in tiny increments, very slowly, with lots of hands on and tons of review.  If I had a stronger grasp of science I could adapt as we go, pull in additional resources as needed, etc.

 

I have no idea when I will have time to squeeze in learning more in science for myself, though.  I am barely treading water with getting us through the other subjects and running the business and our personal finances, etc., etc.  Bedtime for me is usually about midnight and I am up at 6.  DH helping out is not an option at all, for many reasons.

 

Heavy sigh....

How long are you spending on science in one setting?

[OneStepAtATime]

How long are you spending on science in one setting?

It depends on the day and the topic.  I have cut science sessions down to just 20-30 minutes at the moment since she is getting so overwhelmingly frustrated and there are so many more things we need to expend energy on.  But if there is an experiment then it may be longer.

 

One thing that was working last year was the very incremental approach (sort of Charlotte Masonish) that Trail Guides was using with science.  And very hands on with lots of repetition.  It isn't High School level at all, and only with tweaking would it be Middle School level IMHO, but she was retaining more material and not getting so frustrated.  She actually enjoyed some of the lessons.  We never finished the program, even though I loved it, because Barton and her math remediation, etc. were just taking up too much time and energy and she was not far enough along yet in reading remediation for Trail Guides to work as is.  I had to spend too much time tweaking it all.  

 

I might pull Trail Guides out and start working with just the science part.  Cumbersome since it isn't set up that way but if I modeled what we were doing on that at least she might retain something.  It is Earth Science, not biology.  I was hoping to get her through basic Biology concepts at a more Middle School level before trying to tackle High School Biology next year but we aren't making much progress at the moment.  Not sure what the next level of Trail Guides covers.  I didn't buy it but I guess I could see...

 

If I could solidify concepts and vocabulary at a more basic level she might have a chance with higher level material and I have gotten some great suggestions on here.  I just wish she and DH were not pressing for her to start High School level material next year.  In Science and Math especially she just isn't there yet.

[Heathermomster]

Did you ever try the LMD History books?  

 

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that science in logic stage is about exposure and having fun if you can swing it.  High school science, especially biology seems to be about having the math skills to covert values and memorization.  DS is memorizing loads and loads of info.  

 

These are just suggestions...Select a 5th grade curric for now and pump it up with handson. Cover it three times per week and call it good.  Do not touch biology in 9th grade.  Save it for 10th or 11th grade.  Maybe approach physical science in 9th grade.  My DS is extremely intelligent; however, the block scheduling at our local high school would kill him.

 

I am going to say something about college admissions.  DH spent 6 years on active duty in the USN.  He graduated high school with a 2.69 GPA.  He started CC when he was 25 yo and transferred to a 4 year state school, ultimately graduating with a BSEE and a 3.8 GPA.  I taught my DH algebra.  He saw calc for the first time in college.  To this day, his parents freak about his degree choice because it was so shocking.    There are a million ways to follow a degree path.  With respect, your DH and DD are going to need to be flexible in their thinking.  Over at the high school boards, there is a ton of talk about how a student must do this or that.  PhDs from National Labs work with my DH, and he did not follow a traditional path. 

[PeterPan]

OneStep--Trail Guides for science?? What are these?  I know Trail Guides for geography...  

[OneStepAtATime]

Did you ever try the LMD History books?  

 

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that science in logic stage is about exposure and having fun if you can swing it.  High school science, especially biology seems to be about having the math skills to covert values and memorization.  DS is memorizing loads and loads of info.  

 

These are just suggestions...Select a 5th grade curric for now and pump it up with handson. Cover it three times per week and call it good.  Do not touch biology in 9th grade.  Save it for 10th or 11th grade.  Maybe approach physical science in 9th grade.  My DS is extremely intelligent; however, the block scheduling at our local high school would kill him.

 

I am going to say something about college admissions.  DH spent 6 years on active duty in the USN.  He graduated high school with a 2.69 GPA.  He started CC when he was 25 yo and transferred to a 4 year state school, ultimately graduating with a BSEE and a 3.8 GPA.  I taught my DH algebra.  He saw calc for the first time in college.  To this day, his parents freak about his degree choice because it was so shocking.    There are a million ways to follow a degree path.  With respect, your DH and DD are going to need to be flexibe in their thinkng.  Over at the high school boards, there is a ton of talk about how a student must do this or that.  PhDs from National Labs work with my DH, and he did not follow traditional path. 

DH never took a standard approach to anything.  I am unclear why he wants a standard path for the kids.  And on the one side he says he is supportive of the homeschooling but on the other he is always saying he thinks the kids should just suck it up and go back to brick and mortar.  I am walking a thin line.  He really thinks the kids would have a more vigorous education and go much farther if they were back in brick and mortar.  I know it would not work out at all, not here and not now, but he sees things differently.  He wants the quick fix.  

 

FWIW, since the HS diploma requires 4 years of science, including Biology, Chemistry and Physics, we were going to try starting with Biology.  But it just isn't a good fit yet even at the Middle School level.

 

I agree, I am stepping back to more of a 5th grade level material, which works for DS as well.  Just try and get vocabulary and concepts built up as best I can while we work on continuing remediation in reading and math.  I may back off completely for the rest of November, though, just to give her a chance to reset.  She gets so tense the minute I mention science anything now.  She shuts down.

 

Anyway, thanks.

[OneStepAtATime]

OneStep--Trail Guides for science?? What are these?  I know Trail Guides for geography...  

Well there is Trail Guides Geography but there is also Trail Guides to Learning.  It is set up to introduce American History over a period of 3 years, and includes a wonderful state history component in level 2.  The full Trail Guides program actually covers pretty much all subjects except math.  The subjects all sort of weave around the history lessons but it really didn't seem like too much history even for DD, who hates history.  

 

I loved it but we had to modify too much because the kids were both in the early stages of remediation in reading/writing/spelling and I found that the kids did not do well doing the majority of their lessons together.  The material takes too long to get through if you do it separately at two different times of the day so we ended up dropping it.  I wish we hadn't had to.

 

Subjects it covers:

Geography

History

Science

Art

Music

Grammar

Spelling

Reading

Culture

Cooking

Literature

 

There is probably something I am missing.

 

The subjects kind of flow from one to another and the science especially was an excellent fit.  It introduces concepts very carefully, with lots of hands on, and over an extended period of time.  Like we were doing wx observations every day with materials the kids created themselves.  We built a weather station over a period of a few weeks, adding a new component each week.  We were charting the wx observations over a long period, too.  That was going on but also other science lessons were being added as the wx stuff kept going.

 

Prep for a NT family would probably be no more than 15-30 minutes on a Sunday for the following week, even if you had multiple ages.  It is actually set up to handle 3rd - 5th for level 1, 4th-Middle School for level 2 and 5th - 9th for level 3f, but could be used rom 2nd grade through 9th grade all at the same time, with some minimal tweaking for the outlier grades.

 

And when I say levels it means the time periods covered although there is a fairly loose division.  The first covers the explorers and what was happening around the world and in the early stages of exploring what would become America and the establishment of colonies.  We didn't start there since the kids had covered that time period in school.  I erroneously thought there really wouldn't be that much to add.  After I got a look at Level 1 I wish in some ways we HAD started there.  So many awesome lessons and things in history that happened I never even heard about in school.  

 

Level two, Paths of Settlement, starts with established colonies and covers the French and Indian War all the way through to maybe the Civil War.  I don't remember clearly since we didn't get that far.  Wow did we learn a lot more about why the Revolutionary War happened in the first place.  So much of what occurred later on was set up by what was happening in the World during the French and Indian War.  I never was taught that in school.  The final level deals with all the progress in technology, and the World Wars and a ton of other things leading up to maybe early or mid modern times.

 

Honestly the program has way more depth and hands on and interesting lessons that tie everything together so beautifully than I EVER got in school.  

 

 

[maize]

Brainstorming here:

 

Might it help with comprehension if you used one of the science-within-a-story books and read it aloud to her? I'm thinking of things like these:

 

http://barefootmeandering.com/site/quark-chronicles/

 

http://sassafrasscience.com/

 

http://lifeoffredmath.com/lof-biology.php

 

Not high school level, but might be useful to build up a vocabulary and concept base?

 

It is interesting that your husband did not himself follow a traditional path to success but sees that as the only path for the kids. Traditional school was never a good fit for me, it's just not the way my brain works. I was miserable within the system, and because of that have never had any interest in inflicting the system on my own children.

[PeterPan]

OneStep, thanks, I didn't realize how well the Trail Guides to Learning were working out for people.  I need to look into them because, as you say, ds definitely learns in that connected way.  I seem to recall thinking some of the people behind them had some SN they were dealing with, maybe at least ADHD?  Don't know why I was thinking that.

 

I think in our house the discrepancy between what really happened with the parent and what they think ought to happen is more in the category of blameshifting.  It's "if *I* had been taught xyz way and people had been more whatever, *I* wouldn't have struggled so much or been so (insert label)."  So if they had been taught more rigorous/prep, they would have been more xyz.  Blah blah.  We knew it's not true because you are who you are.  But they don't know that and have all this wistfulness to work through.

 

I think you can sort of compromise with that.  You can *acknowledge* what they're feeling, find the wisdom in it, and harness the wisdom and apply it in an appropriate way.  We can encourage diligent work and consistency and effort (attributes of prep school) while KEEPING THE TASKS APPROPRIATE AND DOABLE.  

 

[Storygirl]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: OneStep.

I can't remember if you daughter has had full evaluations with a NP? It sounds to me like she has something going on other than the dyslexia. Auditory processing, maybe, since she has expressed that she can't follow what the videos are saying or understand the text when read aloud? I can see how that is a great hindrance, when you are wanting to sidestep the decoding and read things to her. I'm wondering if you could figure out that piece of the problem with evaluations of some kind if it would help you figure out what direction to take.

 

It sounds like your daughter has a lot of ambition and drive, which are great traits that hopefully will help her push through toward her goals even when every step is a slog. I wish I could magically make things easier for her. And for you. If you could just figure out what exactly that learning stumbling block is, it might help you find a way around it.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: OneStep.

I can't remember if you daughter has had full evaluations with a NP? It sounds to me like she has something going on other than the dyslexia. Auditory processing, maybe, since she has expressed that she can't follow what the videos are saying or understand the text when read aloud? I can see how that is a great hindrance, when you are wanting to sidestep the decoding and read things to her. I'm wondering if you could figure out that piece of the problem with evaluations of some kind if it would help you figure out what direction to take.

 

It sounds like your daughter has a lot of ambition and drive, which are great traits that hopefully will help her push through toward her goals even when every step is a slog. I wish I could magically make things easier for her. And for you. If you could just figure out what exactly that learning stumbling block is, it might help you find a way around it.

Thanks for the hugs.  DD had an evaluation through a CALT specialist about 3 years ago that also has a laundry list of other licenses and certifications but is not an NP.  Having now compared what we got to what others have gotten in some ways I think our eval was more thorough and in depth in many areas but in others is lacking.  We definitely need an eval through an NP and probably an audiologist.  That was supposed to happen this year when we relocated.  Since relocation didn't happen DH and I are putting it on hold until spring.  For various reasons his family, especially his mother, ended up really needing our help so it worked out for the best in some ways.

 

Its funny because I thought the dyslexia was the scary part of the diagnosis when we got it.  I read well from so early on I do not consciously remember not reading.  The idea that my children needed a ton of specialized instruction to learn to read, and that my DD was already in 5th grade and couldn't read anything past Clifford, scared me to death.  But the dyslexia actually hasn't been the big issue (or as big).  It has been DD unable to really do well with anything auditorily as we remediate the reading that is kind of the bigger issue.  She is already 14 but she has missed so much in the way of exposure to more complex vocabulary, concepts, grammar, etc. since she is not yet reading truly at grade level for normal reading and is definitely not anywhere near reading at grade level for science or history.  And she missed years of building up really good content knowledge even with me reading to her as much as possible.  She wasn't absorbing hardly anything in her classes and I could only reteach so much.  Using all those hours to reteach meant she wasn't using that time to read books or play, etc. to build additional content knowledge and experience like her NT peers or even her younger brother.  The deficit wasn't as obvious when she was younger.  It is glaringly apparent now.

 

With DS he does great with audio books, documentaries, etc.  He is a sponge with auditory learning.  DD just doesn't seem to be able to process the audio input properly.  And yet she was very articulate from a young, young age.  They both are.  They talked very early.  It really frustrates her that when other people are talking about things she frequently doesn't understand.  She really didn't share with me how much she was missing until fairly recently, either, so I had no idea how big an issue this is.  

 

It makes it doubly difficult to try and expose her to all of the background knowledge she needs if audio input is really not effective and she cannot read much of the material on her own yet.  It is obvious just in their everyday conversations that DS is probably even a bit ahead of many of his peers with regards to content knowledge and grammar/vocabulary.  DD is falling behind.  If she were in 1st, no problem.  She is not and she knows it.  When we are listening to CNN Student News DS can fill in all the blanks that are implied with the short news stories.  And he makes connections to so many other things he has "read" or watched.  He has a vast amount of background knowledge bolstering his learning.  DD doesn't.  It is hurting her ability to learn at her grade level and intellectual level.  Basic info is really boring.  But more advanced material is so hard for her to process.  So now I need to go back and find a way to build this background knowledge a different way.

 

Well, we did it with reading and math.  The little basic critical first building pieces that were missing before are now there and we are slowly shoring those areas back up.  And we have started to do this with History.  We just need to add in content knowledge in science and other areas using the same type of plan, I guess.

[PeterPan]

OneStep, the big university in our state does your complete audiology exam (not CAPD, but the full exam you need before) for $35.  I'd really be concerned that by waiting even on that, you could be missing something.  

 

I know life is crazy, but maybe move even that up?  If you found the place in your state that is killer for CAPD and at least had them do the normal exam that they're going to have to do anyway, they could probably talk you through a lot and give you some suggestions.  That's 1-2 hours of your life.  Even if you go private it's only $180 in our state.  That's so much more affordable than the $1-2K for everything else we talk about, lol.  

 

Whatever.  I'm not meaning to guilt trip you.  I'm just saying we can go so caught up in the BIG things we want to do that we don't even take the small steps we could.  

 

Btw, is she wearing earbuds to get the info directly into her ears without background noise when she does things with audio/video?  

[OneStepAtATime]

OneStep, the big university in our state does your complete audiology exam (not CAPD, but the full exam you need before) for $35.  I'd really be concerned that by waiting even on that, you could be missing something.  

 

I know life is crazy, but maybe move even that up?  If you found the place in your state that is killer for CAPD and at least had them do the normal exam that they're going to have to do anyway, they could probably talk you through a lot and give you some suggestions.  That's 1-2 hours of your life.  Even if you go private it's only $180 in our state.  That's so much more affordable than the $1-2K for everything else we talk about, lol.  

 

Whatever.  I'm not meaning to guilt trip you.  I'm just saying we can go so caught up in the BIG things we want to do that we don't even take the small steps we could.  

 

Btw, is she wearing earbuds to get the info directly into her ears without background noise when she does things with audio/video?  

Well, because of the potential for hearing loss we don't use ear buds.  I saw tremendous evidence of hearing loss when working with people using ear buds in Broadcast TV.  But yes, she has used regular headphones.  That is how she prefers to listen to music.  I could try again on audio books with head phones.  Usually she would have us listening together so I could explain things but maybe with the headphones it would help her filter....

 

I will check around again for someplace reliable for audio evals.  I think we will need to go outside our area, but I will check here again first.  I just don't have a lot of faith in the medical community where we are at.  Too many things improperly diagnosed or improperly treated over the years, not just for me and my immediate family but for extended family and friends.  Absolutely ludicrous scenarios that became life threatening needlessly or decisions were based on decades old info that had nothing to do with current research and understanding.  My faith in the knowledge and experience base of the medical community in our area has been seriously eroded over the past 16 years.

[PeterPan]

  My faith in the knowledge and experience base of the medical community in our area has been seriously eroded over the past 16 years.

Oh I get that!  I've got my own stories about why I stopped going to docs years ago!  Anyways, see who is well regarded for CAPD in your state and work backwards.  Think biggest university.  I don't know, that just happens to be jackpot in our state.

 

I meant for video lessons to use the earbuds.  I know someone who got improvement that way.  I'm not saying miracle cure, just improvement.

 

Just for your trivia, I've heard really horrible, and I mean REALLY HORRIBLE, stories of care in our area. (cancer missed when the person had horrendous physical symptoms, etc.)  You drive 40 minutes and you're to AMAZING care.  

 

I don't know.  I always have trouble sorting things out, and I remember this one time a friend was listening to me lament AGAIN about something, and she says "Wow, you've been dealing with this for a LONG TIME!"  That jolt helped me.  I don't know.  I know you're not getting enough sleep and this and that.  I'm just saying you've been dealing with this a long time.  Inlaws can wait.  Kids don't wait.  They grow up.  Her time is fleeting.  Prioritize.  Was it your dh who said spring?  And this is the same dh who blows off other problems?  Or I've missed something?  

 

I'll ask a question I've never asked before, and I'm really not meaning to be nosey.  When that specialist did all that testing, did they happen to run IQ?  Is her difficulty appropriate for her IQ or dramatically unexpected?  Anything there in the tea leaves you could read?  Dramatical difference between verbal and non-verbal?  And has she actually had a SLP eval?  Our SLP ran the APD screening on ds.  

 

It just seems a little odd to let your dh drive the waiting on further evals if he doesn't really GET what's going on or acknowledge any of it.

 

Or I'll turn it a different way.  If you're super stressed right now because you're TRYING, TRYING, TRYING to figure out WHAT IN THE WORLD to do for this child that STRUGGLES SO MIGHTILY, then WOULDN'T EVALS LOWER YOUR STRESS???  Wouldn't having better, more complete answers lead to better teaching techniques that would result in you being LESS STRESSED and getting MORE SLEEP???  

 

When we got ds' labels, it was this HUGE WEIGHT that lifted.  I finally had answers that connected the dots so I could stop GUESSING and wondering and stressing all the time.  It helped us chose methods that are more effective with him.  We've been able to get dramatic turn arounds.

 

Why would you let the man who thinks it's all just a matter of going to school, more character, more time, whatever he thinks it is, decide evals don't matter, can wait, etc. etc.???  

 

You HAVE to stick up for yourself.

 

Me, I'd let me inlaws rot and take care of my kids.  Anyone can take care of my inlaws, but only I can help my kids.

 

Whatever.  Just trying to send you a mug of espresso confidenco.

[bluedarling]

And the problem is without that answer you can't target your change.  If her processing speed is crazy low, then meds, maybe IM, meds, meds, did we mention meds? If it's attention, that her brain can't ATTEND while she's reading said utterly boring description of cells, then meds, techniques for increasing attention with utterly boring/disinteresting material (4QSR whatever that thing is I always forget).  

 

 

Meds can help with processing speed???  What kind of meds?

[merry gardens]

...

  She is already 14 but she has missed so much in the way of exposure to more complex vocabulary, concepts, grammar, etc. since she is not yet reading truly at grade level for normal reading and is definitely not anywhere near reading at grade level for science or history.  And she missed years of building up really good content knowledge even with me reading to her as much as possible.  ...The little basic critical first building pieces that were missing before are now there and we are slowly shoring those areas back up.  And we have started to do this with History.  We just need to add in content knowledge in science and other areas using the same type of plan, I guess.

 

First off, I want to say I would generally not recommend on-line science classes if she's struggling with science, at least not if it is a full year course at or near her grade level.  It could be really hard to keep up with the class, and to do that for a full year could ruin her for enjoying science in the future.  If you want outside classes, I suggest you look for something hands-on and local. 

 

 

Secondly, learning a subject--any subject--is largely about know the vocabulary.  Without knowing the meaning of the words, it's like trying to read or listen to someone speaking a foreign language.  Develop a plan to introduce her to the vocabulary words. Hands-on exploration is one of the best ways to do that--especially with science! Don't let words just go in one ear and out the other--make her touch something!  Get her hands dirty!

 

Now, these may seem somewhat baby-ish, but I really like the "Let's Read and Find Out Science Books".  I use them with my children in the primary grades, but I've even learned things from some of those books--and I took loads of science classes in college. If you both need to go back and fill in knowledge of science vocabulary from earlier grades, get some of books for younger children and try some of the simple experiments they have in the back. 

 

Mostly teach her to look at and explore what's going on in the world around her.  Watch balls roll.  Play on swing sets and teeter totters. Observe nature.  Plant a garden.  Notice the differences between one type of leaf and another.  Ask, "Why?"  That's what scientists do--and then they give names to the things they observe and make educated guesses based on patterns they've observed then test those guesses and form theories.

[PeterPan]

Meds can help with processing speed???  What kind of meds?

Not a psych, but what I've read was that the adhd meds will bump processing speed.  

[OneStepAtATime]

Oh I get that!  I've got my own stories about why I stopped going to docs years ago!  Anyways, see who is well regarded for CAPD in your state and work backwards.  Think biggest university.  I don't know, that just happens to be jackpot in our state.

 

I meant for video lessons to use the earbuds.  I know someone who got improvement that way.  I'm not saying miracle cure, just improvement.

 

Just for your trivia, I've heard really horrible, and I mean REALLY HORRIBLE, stories of care in our area. (cancer missed when the person had horrendous physical symptoms, etc.)  You drive 40 minutes and you're to AMAZING care.  

 

I don't know.  I always have trouble sorting things out, and I remember this one time a friend was listening to me lament AGAIN about something, and she says "Wow, you've been dealing with this for a LONG TIME!"  That jolt helped me.  I don't know.  I know you're not getting enough sleep and this and that.  I'm just saying you've been dealing with this a long time.  Inlaws can wait.  Kids don't wait.  They grow up.  Her time is fleeting.  Prioritize.  Was it your dh who said spring?  And this is the same dh who blows off other problems?  Or I've missed something?  

 

I'll ask a question I've never asked before, and I'm really not meaning to be nosey.  When that specialist did all that testing, did they happen to run IQ?  Is her difficulty appropriate for her IQ or dramatically unexpected?  Anything there in the tea leaves you could read?  Dramatical difference between verbal and non-verbal?  And has she actually had a SLP eval?  Our SLP ran the APD screening on ds.  

 

It just seems a little odd to let your dh drive the waiting on further evals if he doesn't really GET what's going on or acknowledge any of it.

 

Or I'll turn it a different way.  If you're super stressed right now because you're TRYING, TRYING, TRYING to figure out WHAT IN THE WORLD to do for this child that STRUGGLES SO MIGHTILY, then WOULDN'T EVALS LOWER YOUR STRESS???  Wouldn't having better, more complete answers lead to better teaching techniques that would result in you being LESS STRESSED and getting MORE SLEEP???  

 

When we got ds' labels, it was this HUGE WEIGHT that lifted.  I finally had answers that connected the dots so I could stop GUESSING and wondering and stressing all the time.  It helped us chose methods that are more effective with him.  We've been able to get dramatic turn arounds.

 

Why would you let the man who thinks it's all just a matter of going to school, more character, more time, whatever he thinks it is, decide evals don't matter, can wait, etc. etc.???  

 

You HAVE to stick up for yourself.

 

Me, I'd let me inlaws rot and take care of my kids.  Anyone can take care of my inlaws, but only I can help my kids.

 

Whatever.  Just trying to send you a mug of espresso confidenco.

I totally get what you are saying OhE and I agree.  Which is one of the reasons we were going to relocate without DH, since he cannot move yet.  This needs doing now.  We didn't end up relocating not because we decided to help MIL instead.  We didn't relocate because our housing fell through.  We had nowhere to live.  Among other issues.  And we cannot afford the cost of two homes.  Being able to help out MIL during three back to back unexpected crises  just was one of the few positive from not relocating at this time.  I spent last spring working on setting up a place to live and all summer working LONG exhausting hours making it happen.  Then things fell through anyway.   

 

Eval through an NP or similar is in the works.  We can go through the school that the kids may take some classes through this coming summer or go through a regular NP.  The school can get us in faster and it is a bit cheaper.  They have a psychologist on staff that does what they claim are extensive evaluations.  Still trying to get a straight answer on the exact tests either would run so I can compare apples to apples.  We will still have to go about 4 1/2 hours away but with the school we might be able to get in before Christmas.  With the NP maybe early spring of next year.  DH thought early Spring would be better since we might have a place to stay and could get all the evals done at about the same time.

 

I don't know about SLP evals.  We didn't get those with the CALT eval and I haven't found a good one yet.  But I am still looking.  We have a couple of options for a COVD in San Antonio (there are none where we live or even nearby) and I am trying to coordinate that with the other evaluations.

 

But if we are going to another city, because of both kids getting so motion sick I cannot plan a drive up and back on the same day.  Might as well not even bother administering the test.  So I have to factor in cost of hotels, cost of food and cost of putting the dog in a kennel since she cannot be left alone in a hotel room.  Without us she panics and will shred everything even if we picked a hotel that takes pets (just leaving her here alone during a couple of rain storms she shredded 5 sets of blinds and a door frame).  And DH is traveling.  He would not be home to take care of the dog, or the house, etc.  I had hoped to have free housing for this year in San Antonio.  I put my energy into that so we could get everything done this fall.  It didn't work out and I have been playing catch up since then.  But you are right, this is a priority and it needs to happen sooner rather than later.

[PeterPan]

Hmm, that would be really tempting with the dyslexia school evals.  Obviously they're seeing a lot of dyslexia!  What they're not is probably used to transfering that to helpful advice for homeschoolers.  Of course other psychs flop on that too.  How much of a price difference?  How many hours of testing?  It might not be a bad eval.  There's a lot to be said for someone who deals with your target concern a lot.  The most obvious way to tell them apart will be amount of time spent testing.  If one psych spends 1-2 hours testing and the other psych spends 6, that's a pretty big difference in what they're getting done.  If however the psych at the dyslexia school is spending 4-6 hours testing...  

 

Sorry your dog has so much anxiety!  I know someone who puts her dog in the shower with no window during storms.  

 

The psych can tell you if you need the SLP eval.  

 

The one bummer about putting everything off till spring is getting that full audiologist booth eval for CAPD would have ANOTHER wait on top of it.  If you could at least get the basic audiologist exam done and have them screen her (an audiologist can screen for CAPD), then you'd at least know if you need to add that to your list of things to get done in the spring.  

 

You live a very complicated life!  :D

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Complicated, yes, a bit.  But honestly, despite some ups and downs and frustration we are in much better shape than we once were.  And DD is so much happier.  School was so challenging and demoralizing.  She has a lot of issues but she LOVES that she can read now and that spelling finally makes sense.  Maybe she isn't reading and spelling at grade level yet, but goodness she is in WAAAAY better shape than she once was.  We have bumps and some days it gets frustrating but things are much better than once they were.  :)  She feels optimistic again.  She has hope and is gaining some confidence back.  I am grateful.  

[PeterPan]

:hurray:   :hurray:

 

:party:   :party:

[EKS]

Not a psych, but what I've read was that the adhd meds will bump processing speed.  

 

They'll also help with working memory.

[OneStepAtATime]

Well, we have a plan for getting through the rest of this year.  DD and I talked it over and we are going back to Trail Guides to Learning for history, science and literature.  It is incremental, it introduces things gently, it has a ton of built in spiral review, I can add whatever aditional resources she and i think are necessary and there are a lot of hands on science activities and history projects that should help with comprehension/retention.  We will use the Middle School supplements for reading selections and verbal material coupled with some of the elementary level material in areas she struggles.  We will cover literature, history and science all in one fell swoop and  can condense each 6 week unit into 4-5 weeks since we are dumping all the writing/grammar/spelling.  Those are things covered in Barton.  We WILL use the spelling lists as vocabulary lists, though.

 

We will be implementing a lot of the suggestions on this thread, too, for solidifying concepts.  Thanks for those.

 

And we will be contacting the dyslexia school again on Monday to get more details on their evaluations and to get a more solid answer as to when evals could occur.  If we can get more detailed evals soon, then we will know which way to leap next (like OT, SLP, etc.).

 

Thanks for brainstorming with me everyone.  DD and I are feeling hopeful that this is a good plan for the remainder of this school year.   :)

[Heathermomster]

Sounds good!  Maybe reread the back of the Dyslexic Advantage again.  There was a section where adult dyslexics discussed how they found their careers, and the steps they took.  I think I'm going to take it out and read it to my son.

[OneStepAtATime]

Sounds good!  Maybe reread the back of the Dyslexic Advantage again.  There was a section where adult dyslexics discussed how they found their careers, and the steps they took.  I think I'm going to take it out and read it to my son.

Great Idea!

[maize]

They'll also help with working memory.

 

Discussion of ADHD meds reminds me I really need to have dd7 evaluated. She has every sign of ADHD, I just hesitate to medicate when she is so young and I can do a lot to adapt to her needs at home. 

 

I need to learn more about the types of meds that don't usually cause kids to lose weight--she is already my skinny child who doesn't eat well, I can't consider anything that would act as an appetite suppressant.

 

I'm with Onestep in knowing that I really, really need to get  a full neuropsych evaluation for her but I'm not in a good place right now to accomplish that.

 

Sigh.

[OneStepAtATime]

Discussion of ADHD meds reminds me I really need to have dd7 evaluated. She has every sign of ADHD, I just hesitate to medicate when she is so young and I can do a lot to adapt to her needs at home. 

 

I need to learn more about the types of meds that don't usually cause kids to lose weight--she is already my skinny child who doesn't eat well, I can't consider anything that would act as an appetite suppressant.

 

I'm with Onestep in knowing that I really, really need to get  a full neuropsych evaluation for her but I'm not in a good place right now to accomplish that.

 

Sigh.

:grouphug:

[lauranc]

I haven't read through all the replies...has anyone mentioned Stephanie Elkowitz's materials on Teachers Pay Teachers? www.teacherspayteachers.com/Store/Stephanie-Elkowitz (I believe that is the link)

 

These are working very well for us.

..Laura

[PeterPan]

Discussion of ADHD meds reminds me I really need to have dd7 evaluated. She has every sign of ADHD, I just hesitate to medicate when she is so young and I can do a lot to adapt to her needs at home. 

 

I need to learn more about the types of meds that don't usually cause kids to lose weight--she is already my skinny child who doesn't eat well, I can't consider anything that would act as an appetite suppressant.

 

I'm with Onestep in knowing that I really, really need to get  a full neuropsych evaluation for her but I'm not in a good place right now to accomplish that.

 

Sigh.

What gets me is the practitioners who think homeschooling is so infinitely adaptable that you don't even NEED meds!   :lol:   Two kids with labels, no meds, but I become infinitely less opposed to them every day.  Have you tried caffeine on her?

 

Other things to buy you time or help you get a little peace?  (not an exhaustive list)

-dramatic increases in physical activity--gymnastics at the Y, swimming, sports

-OT eval

-S'cool Moves/Focus Moves --our OT uses this but you can get the ebook for $10 and do it yourself.  I'm CRAZY for it.  Best $10 ever, other than maybe the Ronit Bird ebook.  

-structure--the buzzword from God through all psychs who seek to console us.  You really can't have too much structure with them.  

 

In my dreamworld I'd have 2 hours of gymnastics and 1 hour of swimming every day, our OT stuff at home, energy to keep up appropriate structure (think military school and you'll be there).  And even then, I could still use meds with him.  But the things do help.  And omega 3, daily salad, healthy snacks, etc.  When they're that skinny, they *could* be forgetting to eat.  (My ds does that, just so busy he walks away!)  They could have some metabolic problems or digestion issues (celiac, food allergies, etc.).  With my ds I build snacks into our structure, intentionally feed him more compact, high fat food like avocadoes, and use food for motivators during lessons.  It will often be healthy food (pistachios, cashews, raisins, etc.) not just candy, nevertheless it's food.  And I break the laws of motherhood and buy him ice cream cones when we're out.  He was literally up at midnight last night saying he was hungry.  On Sunday nights we forage, and we found his food on his plate after he went to bed.  He had literally gotten busy and just walked away!  He woke up a mess (blood sugar low), still wasn't perked up after breakfast, but now is looking happier after a 2nd meal.  What a mess.  Just too busy to eat, gets distracted by himself and his ideas.