I have really loved Singapore Primary math, but...

[mamamindy]

We are nearing the end of 2B, and I am wondering what other options I might have that are less teacher-intensive?  I love that SM is open-and-go, which is great.  And we've really loved it.  The only reason I am looking at other options is because I will have 3 in a math program soon...and...I just won't have the time to devote to all three.  I've heard Math-U-See is conceptual and may be a good thing to follow with.  Where would we start?  Other options?

[Coco_Clark]

I personally find MIF to be the same style/approach as PM but less work (for me). We did PM for 1a/b and part of 2a before jumping to MIF for the same reason, I loved it but adding another student was daunting. Although I was going from 1 to 2 :)

[joysworld]

We started off with Singapore but left it because it was too teach intensive.

 

I switched to mammoth math and LOVE it!! It approaches are the same way sm does, but it written to the student. So much simpler.

[maize]

Math Mammoth. Strong conceptual basis, one worktext written to the student. Both my 9 and 11 year olds are able to do most of their work independently. 

[mamamindy]

Thank you!  So, no votes for Math-U-See?  If Math Mammoth, would I just start at level 3?  I guess I could check out the SOS...  Thank you again!  My girls LOVE math, so I am hesitant to switch things up...but some things have gotta give.

[kitten18]

FWIW - I've found teaching the second child to be much less teacher intensive. I rarely need the HIG for DS (and I use it heavily for teaching dd).

 

You could try a semester of MIF (the wkbk is cheap and you can find a cheap text). I tried a semester with each of my kids and didn't like it at all and we went back to SM.

[maize]

Thank you! So, no votes for Math-U-See? If Math Mammoth, would I just start at level 3? I guess I could check out the SOS... Thank you again! My girls LOVE math, so I am hesitant to switch things up...but some things have gotta give.

MM3 should be fine after Singapore 2B. Be aware that many families using MM find it unnecessary to assign every problem on a page. You could assign half of the problems and if your child breezes through them move on; if they struggle and need extra practice assign more.

[sweetpea3829]

Thank you!  So, no votes for Math-U-See?  If Math Mammoth, would I just start at level 3?  I guess I could check out the SOS...  Thank you again!  My girls LOVE math, so I am hesitant to switch things up...but some things have gotta give.

 

Honestly, MUS would be a real step back from the quality you're getting with Singapore.  Yes, they have a strong conceptual approach, but MUS has nowhere near the depth that Singapore has.  I use MUS with my LD daughter because she needs a straight nuts and bolts math with no extra thinking required.  I use MUS with my other children when they need a different approach that is more basic.  But I bring them back to Singapore for the depth.  

 

I am not familiar with MM and can't really advise much on that. 

 

Depending on her math ability, you COULD give Beast Academy a try.  My son doesn't need much direct teaching from me, though he does need my help to walk through some of the double star problems.  But for the most part, everything he needs for instruction is either in the student guide or the workbook.  

[sweetpea3829]

I would not consider SM to be at all teacher intensive.  I think you ought to stay put.

 

You know, I don't really consider it to be all that bad, either.  But it does require teacher time.  On a difficult math day, I might take an hour for a lesson.  Even on a not-so-difficult math day, it can take some time.  

[sweetpea3829]

Oh and btw, if you were to go with MUS, as to where would you start....well that's the rub with MUS.  Their scope and sequence is quite different from a traditional math program.  If you started in Gamma, you would be starting multiplication.  But your student will not have done the multiple digit addition and subtraction that Beta has.  If you start in Beta, your student, who's already started some multiplication and division with Singapore, won't see anything more on multiplication and division for another year or so.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

You know, I don't really consider it to be all that bad, either.  But it does require teacher time.  On a difficult math day, I might take an hour for a lesson.  Even on a not-so-difficult math day, it can take some time.  

 

How much are you doing that it takes an hour?  I've used SM with 2 kids now and for several years.  I don't recall a single thing taking an hour for me to explain.

[sweetpea3829]

How much are you doing that it takes an hour?  I've used SM with 2 kids now and for several years.  I don't recall a single thing taking an hour for me to explain.

 

It depends on the kiddo.  My oldest son and I took an hour during 3As bar graphs lesson, because we built a bar graph together, including drawing it, labeling it, etc., from data we gleaned from a FB survey on favorite ice cream flavors.  

 

Middle DS has taken an hour to get through a direct instruction lesson with me, plus completing (together) the worksheet I assigned.  He's having a harder time understanding the material in 1A, particularly place value and regrouping.  

 

Usually, my math lessons are far shorter.  But, like the OP, I have three kids in math right now (four if you include the Ker) and ANY teacher led instruction is often interrupted by somebody else needing quick help.  That makes a lesson drag, too.  

[maize]

Math Mammoth is on sale today only at the Homeschool Buyers Co-op: 

 

https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/math-mammoth/?source=HSBC-2014-11-03&utm_source=GBC&utm_campaign=HSBC-2014-11-03&utm_medium=email

 

I think this is just for the download version, if you prefer printed workbooks (black and white) I get mine from Rainbow Resource.

[prairiewindmomma]

Stick with Singapore. I have two in SM and one in algebra.... I think if you are more flexible with the HIG that you'll discover 30 min to be adequate. Even my dysgraphic dyscalcic third grader doesn't take an hour.

[wapiti]

I will add that level of independence can vary from kid to kid and certainly by age/development/maturity level as well as by level of challenge as compared to the kid's ability level.

 

I do like MM for ease of logistics - open-and-go.  As mentioned above, there is flexibility in the number of problems to assign in particular lessons.

[Crimson Wife]

You know, I don't really consider it to be all that bad, either.  But it does require teacher time.  On a difficult math day, I might take an hour for a lesson.  Even on a not-so-difficult math day, it can take some time.  

 

You might want to consider using the Khan Academy lessons (free) or the Marshall Cavendish Math Buddies http://www.mconline.us/LEAD/login/content/ps_mb_1.html

[MinivanMom]

By the time you have 3 in Singapore math, your oldest won't need so much time or hand-holding. If Singapore is working well for your family, then don't change it.

 

At the beginning of this year, I had 4 in Singapore (oldest is now done and moving onto pre-Algebra). It sounds terrible but it really wasn't at all. The oldest two are so independent at this point that they only needed 5-10 min of my time to go over new concepts and then they did all their work completely independently. My third (in 2A) needs more time for me to go over concepts, and then she needs me to sit beside her the whole time she is working for emotional support. She takes a solid 30 min of my time. My fourth needs me to work with him one-on-one, but he only takes 10-ish min.

 

When my kids were all small and so closely spaced and needing so much individual attention, it was easy to worry about how I was going to manage in the future. It was just hard to imagine at that point in time, how much more independent they would be as they got older. Your kids will get older, and it will get easier.

 

 

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

If Singapore Math is working well I would suggest sticking with it.  Kids do become more independent as they get older.  I only have experience with a few programs but I can't imagine any young elementary program that is not teacher intensive.  I have 3 in school now, plus 1 in preschool.  Only oldest dd does several subjects on her own and I still have plenty of time for everyone.

[sweetpea3829]

If Singapore Math is working well I would suggest sticking with it.  Kid do become more independent as they get older.  I only have experience with a few programs but I can't imagine any young elementary program that is not teacher intensive.  I have 3 in school now, plus 1 in preschool.  Only oldest dd does several subjects on her own and I still have plenty of time for everyone.

 

Well, I do have to give MUS props as far as teacher requirements go.  It really doesn't take a lot of teacher time for a lesson.  

 

Now supportive help for those students who need it...well that's dependent on the student.  But as for lessons themselves, it is pretty much open and go with Steve's DVD.  

[OneStepAtATime]

CLE Math.  Seriously easy to implement.  

 

Or as someone else posted Math In Focus.  Like Singapore but easier to implement. Love MiF.  And you can usually get the textbooks in like new condition for very little used on Amazon or Abe books.

[Coco_Clark]

How much are you doing that it takes an hour?  I've used SM with 2 kids now and for several years.  I don't recall a single thing taking an hour for me to explain.

 

In SweetPea's defense Singapore 1a/b/2a lessons often took my son 45 minutes to an hour.  Now, a lot of that is my inability to "trim" math programs.  This is an area I'm not strong in, and honestly I don't feel confident enough to know what to skip and what not to skip.  So we did the lesson as outlined in the HIG and yeah, it took that long.

 

I've taught RightStart (in a school setting), Singapore PM, Miquon, Math in Focus, and MEP (at home) and Singapore took me the longest.  We loved it.  It worked.  But it was the most work for me.  Everyone's mileage varies.  

[NancyNellen]

I would agree with sticking with Singapore. As they get older it takes less teaching time, in my experience, and over the years I became much more efficient in the teaching. I've had as many as four doing Singapore Primary at once. As I added  students I reduced the amount of time I spent teaching from the HIG. My kids have all done fine.

[mamamindy]

Thank you to everyone for all of your suggestions.  I think I will stick with SM for now.  It has been working consistently for us the longest of all other curricula I've tried.  And I do think I'm getting a little better at finding my way around the HIG.  Like a PP mentioned, the second go round has been easier.  My girls are only 1 book apart so that helps. :)

[SevenDaisies]

It's a great program, and I'm glad you decided to stick with it. I have 3 using it now. There are a lot of manipulatives suggested in the early levels, but as you go on that gets less and less and therefore takes less time. My oldest is doing level 5 and we rarely pull them out. My youngest is in 1 and I do feel like most days we have hands-on activities.

[Peplophoros]

I also switched to Math Mammoth for the same reason....and regretted it a year later.  Why?  I should have been careful what I wished for: because I was less involved in their math learning, they were skating by without really understanding concepts the way they did with SM, and I had less of a handle on what they did or did not understand.  Believe me, I opt for less teacher intensive curricula all the time, but SM is one I didn't want to do without.

 

Why does it work now?  I just had my 5th baby, so I have even less time than before, but I make teaching math and wring our two top priorities of the day, no matter what.  

 

[boscopup]

I never spent more than 15 minutes teaching a new concept in Singapore (used grades 1, 4, and 5). Often it was less than that. I glanced at the HIG, explained at the white board, went over enough textbook problems orally that I knew kiddo understood, then set them to work with the workbook.

 

I am using CLE now, and there is less time spent on new concept teaching, so it is less teacher intensive for me, but I didn't find Singapore to be that bad either. I certainly never took an hour. The whole lesson never took that long (me teaching, then them doing independent work). If it had taken that long, I would have split that lesson over multiple days if necessary.

 

Like a PP, I also recommend not taking yourself out of the teaching equation. It can really go very wrong in the long run. When I used Math Mammoth (grades 1-4), I always went over new material first. It took me just as much time as Singapore did. The difference was the lesson time, because my son liked Singapore's presentation better, and he didn't dawdle with it.

[imagine.more]

I also haven't found Singapore Math to be at all teacher intensive. I mean, I have to dive in and explain concepts and show several examples occasionally but that's like once a month. Otherwise DS does it pretty much independently. I sit nearby and check his work of course but so far he is doing quite well on his own, he rarely gets one wrong on the practice. I probably spend about 5 minutes per lesson explaining the concept to him, then he flies solo. He's over halfway through 2A right now, we did 1A-B last year. So yeah I think you're right to try to stick it out. And maybe you could step back just a little bit? Sometimes slowing down a bit can allow the kid to be more independent, or at least maybe scale back your explanations and see if it makes sense to them still with a shorter/simpler explanation?

[Elisabet1]

To me, math is the number one most important subject. A child can still go on and go to college and do history even if entire centuries were missed in grade school. But your child will never be able to be in any sort of field with any sort of advanced math needs if even the early years had gaps, holes, or just things that were not well understood.

[rika4584]

First, I would like to ask if the child took the placement test for Singapore and is well place?  An hour is much too long for such a young child and I can't help but wonder if the dc is struggling with concepts.  Each student is different in their learning but I wanted to ask about placement before going too far into the meat of your question.

 

I have a student in Singapore Math and another student in Math-U-See because they are very different learners.  I would suggest really learning how your student learns before jumping ship from SM into a master program like MUS.  They are VERY different methodologies and MUS is not hands-off.  We've completed Primer with my younger student last year, Gamma, Delta, Epsilon, and beginning Zeta for my oldest kiddo.  I spend more time re-teaching the video and helping my student in MUS than I do in SM.  But again, they are very different learners with different academic strengths so ymmv.

 

Note: My SM student spends about 20-25 minutes in 4A, which includes the teaching segment.  I have 4 students, each in a different math program and grade so I understand the need for something that doesn't require an hour of teaching.  :-).

 

 

[mamamindy]

First, I would like to ask if the child took the placement test for Singapore and is well place?  An hour is much too long for such a young child and I can't help but wonder if the dc is struggling with concepts.  Each student is different in their learning but I wanted to ask about placement before going too far into the meat of your question.

 

I have a student in Singapore Math and another student in Math-U-See because they are very different learners.  I would suggest really learning how your student learns before jumping ship from SM into a master program like MUS.  They are VERY different methodologies and MUS is not hands-off.  We've completed Primer with my younger student last year, Gamma, Delta, Epsilon, and beginning Zeta for my oldest kiddo.  I spend more time re-teaching the video and helping my student in MUS than I do in SM.  But again, they are very different learners with different academic strengths so ymmv.

 

Note: My SM student spends about 20-25 minutes in 4A, which includes the teaching segment.  I have 4 students, each in a different math program and grade so I understand the need for something that doesn't require an hour of teaching.  :-).

 I don't know if you're asking me this question...?  I never said it was taking me an hour.  Quite the contrary.  I'd say the teacher portion is about 15 minutes right now.  I have one child in 2A & one in 2B, and I was just anticipating it taking more and more time (of my undivided attention!) each year....adding a child...I guess you could say I was anxious! ;)  (ETA: Of course I spend time helping them through their part, being there for moral support, redirecting, etc.  Math is a tough thing in our house and we DO have a positive attitude about it.  I just want to be able to help ALL of them, that is all.)   I've thought about it rationally, and now I know that this is something that IS working for us now, so we'll stick with it.  I have considered moving my younger daughter to something different if she starts to pass up older (for various reasons, and she's a different learner) but that is another topic. ;)

 

Thank you for sharing your experiences!