SorrelZG Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I don't want to Google too much, but has anyone any idea where the ass/arse confusion came about? My dictionary has 'asinus', Latin for 'donkey' as the derivation for 'ass', but I believe that 'arse' is derived from the Greek (orros). The two words are distinct in British English but not in American. What does an American dictionary give as derivation for the 'backside' meaning of 'ass'? L This website says this: ass (n.2) slang for "backside," first attested 1860 in nautical slang, in popular use from 1930; chiefly U.S.; from dialectal variant pronunciation of arse (q.v.). The loss of -r- before -s- attested in several other words (such as burst/bust, curse/cuss, horse/hoss, barse/bass). Indirect evidence of the change from arse to ass can be traced to 1785 (in euphemistic avoidance of ass"donkey" by polite speakers) and perhaps to Shakespeare, if Nick Bottom transformed into a donkey in "A Midsummer Night's Dream" (1594) is the word-play some think it is. A lot of other sources said the same thing (from arse, dropped -r-), but didn't offer an explanation of where/when/why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in CA Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 One that I haven't seen yet is "thong." I don't remember which books, but over the years I've gotten a chuckle out of references to the use of thongs (often in regards to tying things up with leather thongs, LOL). I just thought of a more recent one: the use of "thong" in A Pair of Red Clogs. The use wasn't as awkward (especially since there are pictures), but it always made me giggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquility7 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 DD(4) loves listening to Thornton Burgess audiobooks, in which is a cat named Black Pu55y. Last night we were all in the car and DH about drove off the road when DD piped up singing loudly from the back of the car, "I love Black Pu55y, I love Black Pu55y, I love Black Pu55y!" We were VERY glad we were not out in public :smilielol5: Yes, I hate "ejacu1ated" and nearly always change it when reading aloud. Unfortunately the kids catch me pretty often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I have spent most of the past year trying to cram as many "edit on the fly" read alouds in as I can before it's too late! ds hates it when he catches me, and many of my childhood favourites, like Albert Payson Terhune, only need a quick change of word from "negro" to "man" to get rid of the racism that he is particularly sensitive to. I didn't edit "pussy" because I'm old enough to remember when it was a common term for a cat and I guess I've just been lucky that ds has only used it to refer to our pussy when we are at home. I'll probably have to spend some quality time with a scanner and a photo editor if I want my grandbabies to enjoy the "Richard and Jane" books that ds's grandfather gave him for a "Wow, you learned how to read at a young age!" present. I'm wondering what lasting effects it has on children to be so aware that language and customs have changed so profoundly. Mostly people dwell on the negatives of children hearing unfashionable and politically incorrect things in older books. I'm wondering what the benefits are, though. I wonder if widely-read children are less likely to mock the language and customs and rules of any group. I wonder if widely-read children are less provincial. I wonder if widely-read children are more precise with word choices, and more sensitive to their audience. I used to teach that the old books were "wrong" and would teach the child the "right" way. As I age, I'm becoming increasingly aware that the current customs and word choices and "facts" might be more "wrong" than the ones that make people so uncomfortable now. A friend was watching a movie and I had to get up and leave because it was triggering me. The volume and intensity of the degrading vocabulary about women just overwhelmed me. But this movie is considered a multi-star movie. We are very unequal about which subgroups we will allow to be described with degrading language. We are far more tolerant of hate talk about women than we are about hate talk against a race. Sometimes people even laugh at it. There are some people that act as fashion police, and really do think there are right and wrong ways to dress. And even though their rules change, the changing doesn't make the current rules any less important. Does the instability of something make you question it's absoluteness? Or is how unstable something is irrelevant to it's rightness. I know I'm kinda rambling and jumping between a couple different topics, but this is what my brain is tossing around tonight. I'm just really wondering what benefits children reap from reading "wrong" and "bad" books. :iagree: Sometimes I worry about ds growing up with The Brady Bunch instead of Dora, but I think that's probably just one of the benefits of having an older mother and that the positives will outweigh the negatives if I continue to read what I read and just explain WHY I cannot bring myself to let the n-word or the Ma Ingalls' often repeated "The only good (expletive denoting Native American) is a dead (expletive denoting Native American)." cross my lips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodlebug Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Not really the kind of issue you're talking about. But DH's parents asked DS what he was reading... "Black Booty" was his reply. That poor horse will always be known as Black Booty in this house. Stella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Managed to find a copy of a book as an adult, having loved these as a kid. WHOA. Blown away by the caricature of black women in the book. Holy cow its bad. Our last library run involved gutting the Halloween display with lots of "Ooooh! I remember that!"s and "Grab this, you'll love it!"s followed by me tossing favourite books from my childhood back in the bag after a page or two with a disgusted, "They shouldn't have left that on the shelf!" I finally fessed up to ds that I did have an "Engine Princess" costume for Halloween just like every other little girl born in the 1960s and that I'm so glad that people don't do that any more. He's only 6, so I'm in no hurry to let him know that I wasn't allowed to play with kids who looked like him when I was a little girl or that the reason my father chose to use his inheritance from his parents to set up a scholarship in their name instead of helping ds with his own college expenses is because of the anti-miscegenation clause in my grandparents' will. It really wasn't that long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaneEyre Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I can't remember which old book, but I remember one where some older lady who was not the mother - possibly the grandmother- was "nursing" the baby, which I found odd. The the dad was "nursing" the baby, so I finally figured out it must have simply meant holding and comforting back then. Also, in regards to the *N word, I hope I can say this without it sounding bad, but when we were listening to the unabridged audio of Robinson Crusoe in the minivan and it was saying THAT word we were stopped at a red light with the windows down. I looked over and a carload of black people were all staring at me because they could hear the words to our story. It was not happy stares. I wanted to say, " This is an unabridged version of the children's classic Robinson Crusoe and I'm sorry but I didn't know that word was in there." But I just tried to look apologetic and dropped my head till the light changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeghanL Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 So, this isn't a vintage book but I have such a difficult time telling people about the modern test of Woodcock-Johnson III. Especially since it's mainly oral. yeah.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in CA Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I know I once looked something up because a book I was reading had someone hauling around a faggot. I think I read one that talked about tying up a faggot with leather thongs (or fastening a faggot to a horse with leather thongs - something like that), LOL! I wish I could remember where I read it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in CA Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 What is a Engine Princess? I was wondering that too. I Googled it but only found swim goggles, LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nannyaunt Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Indian princess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I can't remember which old book, but I remember one where some older lady who was not the mother - possibly the grandmother- was "nursing" the baby, which I found odd. The the dad was "nursing" the baby, so I finally figured out it must have simply meant holding and comforting back then. That was all I knew the word to mean before moving to the States (from Australia). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerileanne99 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I know I am going to have some explaining to do as for so many of the words in this thread I have stuck to the original, contextual meaning. In my defense, dd4 is very uh, verbose, and would absolutely love to enlighten strangers in the street on the disparities in definitions! Other than some of the mentions, I remember reading The Wizard of Oz with my dd in the car whilst hubby was driving. He spit out his coffee when I read the word 'ejaculated', and we both had a snigger when the Lion 'aroused himself' after falling asleep in the poppy field! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrale Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 In Australia we had an ice-cream called a golden Gaytime. Well... Do we still? I use the word gay. Fags were cigarettes. A faggot is a bundle of sticks. Retard meant to slow down. I Love words. Etymology just fascinates me. I hope my son will be the same. Thus far he likes words, and he uses a lot of vintage words. Because we read a lot of vintage text. But I hope to impress upon him how much words change, so he is sage enough to use the most appropriate words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deee Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Yes, we still have Gaytimes. They're DH's favourites (this sentance is not weird in Australia!) A few others: To "nurse" means to hold, or provide nursing care. Breastfeeding is called just that. Thongs come in pairs, are made of rubber and you put them on your feet. No self-respecting Aussie would be without at least one pair. That not-quite-there underwear is a "g-string". A pussy is a cat and this term is quite acceptable yelled up the street. It is also the source of much silly tittering when watching the wonderful vintage British comedy "Are you being served" The bit of anatomy at the top of your legs (the other bit) is your bum or your ar$e. A butt is the bit you have left after you smoke a cigarette (which is a fag, smoke, cancer stick or dhurrie). When I was a kid we had lollies called 'Fags'. They were fake cigarettes. They've been renamed, but I can't remember what they are called. Fanny is a bit rude, and rarely used. The opening theme from "The Nanny" caused a bit of consternation. We would have said " out on her bum" but that didn't rhyme. Our terms for Indigenous Australians are every bit as revolting as yours. The n word isn't used. We have others. Aborigine isn't tolerated anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Aborigine isn't tolerated anymore. I did not know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Ha Ha! I thought it was some girl who was a car mechanic until I read your explanation! Indian princess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirstenhill Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Two mornings in a row, my kids have now asked me what I was laughing at, as I read this thread and can't help but giggling out loud. I had to be cryptic and saw, oh, "funny grown up jokes about words"...since I really don't want to explain what is so funny about these words....LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica_in_Switzerland Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Up thread, someone mentioned their child not knowing about bad words. My son is the same. The other day he came in from the playground upset, because another child had been using "harsh words". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Aborigine isn't tolerated anymore. It still seems to be down here, though it is not preferred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrale Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Yes, we still have Gaytimes. They're DH's favourites (this sentance is not weird in Australia!) A few others: To "nurse" means to hold, or provide nursing care. Breastfeeding is called just that. Thongs come in pairs, are made of rubber and you put them on your feet. No self-respecting Aussie would be without at least one pair. That not-quite-there underwear is a "g-string". A pussy is a cat and this term is quite acceptable yelled up the street. It is also the source of much silly tittering when watching the wonderful vintage British comedy "Are you being served" The bit of anatomy at the top of your legs (the other bit) is your bum or your ar$e. A butt is the bit you have left after you smoke a cigarette (which is a fag, smoke, cancer stick or dhurrie). When I was a kid we had lollies called 'Fags'. They were fake cigarettes. They've been renamed, but I can't remember what they are called. Fanny is a bit rude, and rarely used. The opening theme from "The Nanny" caused a bit of consternation. We would have said " out on her bum" but that didn't rhyme. Our terms for Indigenous Australians are every bit as revolting as yours. The n word isn't used. We have others. Aborigine isn't tolerated anymore. The candy fags became fads. But it thought that they discontinued them completely as they were candy cagarettes. I loved them as a kid. They were yummy. And yes, I pretended to smoke them. And I never once considered really smoking. I remember when I used to pretend I was drinking a stubby too when I had ginger beer in a glass stubby like bottle. I don't drink either. And I love Gaytimes. They are so yummy. I miss Aussie food. I remember Coon cheese was being sued for the derragatory names, despite it being a family name. I wonder if it was ever changed. Coon is just a term for a raccoon in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 This morning in Mrs Piggle Wiggle "mom, what's a weenie?" My husband is home since its Saturday and looked rather shocked till I said "oh it's an old word for a hot dog." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 What's a stubby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrale Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 This morning in Mrs Piggle Wiggle "mom, what's a weenie?" My husband is home since its Saturday and looked rather shocked till I said "oh it's an old word for a hot dog." Teeny hotdogs. Still a current term. Beanie weenies are backed beans with little hot dogs in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrale Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 What's a stubby? A short beer bottle. I am not even sure if the US has them. Most beer bottles I think I the US are long necks.... I don't drink beer so I am not completely sure on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 The candy fags became fads. But it thought that they discontinued them completely as they were candy cagarettes. I loved them as a kid. They were yummy. And yes, I pretended to smoke them. And I never once considered really smoking.I vaguely recall that as Fags they had an orange tip to simulate the burning end of the cigarette, and when they became Fads they also no longer had their orange tip and were just sold as candy sticks. Of course, I haven't been there in over a decade and haven't been buying Fags/Fads for probably a decade longer at least, so I have no idea it they're still around—I just remember them no longer being candy cigarettes. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Last night Ms. 6 called out to me what I thought sounded like "Mummy, what does semen mean?". So I went in to her room and asked where she saw it (I always ask where the kid read/heard new words). She pointed in her Enid Blyton book and the word turned out to be c'mon, which she was reading as C-mon. Wrt to bad stereotypes, original Enid Blyton has terrible depictions of pretty much anyone except white upper middle class English people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Yell Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 What is a Engine Princess? Indian Princess, often spelled "Injun" referring to Native Americans. Yep- my mom made me one of those costumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Yell Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Our last library run involved gutting the Halloween display with lots of "Ooooh! I remember that!"s and "Grab this, you'll love it!"s followed by me tossing favourite books from my childhood back in the bag after a page or two with a disgusted, "They shouldn't have left that on the shelf!" I finally fessed up to ds that I did have an "Engine Princess" costume for Halloween just like every other little girl born in the 1960s and that I'm so glad that people don't do that any more. He's only 6, so I'm in no hurry to let him know that I wasn't allowed to play with kids who looked like him when I was a little girl or that the reason my father chose to use his inheritance from his parents to set up a scholarship in their name instead of helping ds with his own college expenses is because of the anti-miscegenation clause in my grandparents' will. It really wasn't that long ago. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitterpatter Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Hah! Jack ejaculated yesterday in The Land of Oz. Totally thought of this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrale Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Talk about awkward moment in a book. I won't say which as it is a spoiler. We follow the adventures of a boy character only to discover at the end of the book he is a long lost Princess and is really a girl turned into a boy. I remember him/her bewailing that he/she didn't want to be a girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Well, if it's good enough for Shakespeare... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rose Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Talk about awkward moment in a book. I won't say which as it is a spoiler. We follow the adventures of a boy character only to discover at the end of the book he is a long lost Princess and is really a girl turned into a boy. I remember him/her bewailing that he/she didn't want to be a girl. We were reading The Wonder Book of Chemistry by Fabre yesterday and came across Uncle Paul talking about "asses gold." It made me think of this thread too and while I pondered what a modern understanding of that phrase might mean. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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