Anyone ELSE surprised by DB Fast Track content!??

[Neesy]

Not offended at all. The rules are different in England, the English-English words are fun and he can't guess them (as has been mentioned). Plus, we read a lot of English lit with AO. And this really isn't a program for a 5 year old. This is a REMEDIAL program (for the most part, I know people can use it however). It is excellent. All the funny names & titles work in those less-used letter combinations... I suppose it isn't a perfect program, but it is pretty darn close. (And my son has completed the whole book - IT WORKS!!! He is reading now!!!)

 

But if you'd rather have "Mat sat". "Jill and the cat ran." more power to ya!

 

I actually didn't realize when I posted originally, that fast track WAS a remedial program.  What age is remedial for, anyway?  Preteen?  Teenagers?  Adults...all of the above?  I guess I thought a lot of people used it for their gifted young children or those that read easily...so they could cover the material quicker.  I was looking at it, because I was wanting something quick we could go through that would reinforce what ds already knew and would help him with the "word-guessing".  So, I apologize for my ignorance on that point. 

 

As far as the use of the English/British words...I never once said (or even vaguely implied) that I was offended by those...or even questioning the use of them....which I have repeatedly tried to clarify.  I was only checking the SPELLING differences, compared to American spellings (trying to avoid confusion for my boys with SPELLING).  In fact, I actually see the beauty of using the unknown words now...even BETTER than using nonsense words.  I GET it.  That was NOT what I had a problem with.

 

I am VERY happy for your son.  I think that is AWESOME that the program helped him.  I really do.  I am curious...if you wouldn't mind sharing...how old was he when he did the program?  I'm just trying to get an idea of what "remedial" is and what type of programs I should be looking at.  There's the whole "better late than early" theory and I'm really not sure what category we fall into.

 

As far as your last comment:  "But if you'd rather have "Mat sat". "Jill and the cat ran." more power to ya!"  I REALLY don't see why THAT comment was necessary???  When did I EVER....EVER ONCE say I questioned the methodology or the technique of the actual phonics lessons in DB???  I didn't.  That is never what this was about and if you would actually READ everything I've written thus far, you would know that. 

 

I truly am sorry if I offended you or anyone else.  It was not my intention...AT ALL!

 

Peace....

[Neesy]

Mention was made of underage drinking in one of the posts.  Just for reference, the public drinking age in the UK is 16 (with food) or 18.  Parents can by law make their own decisions about when children drink at home.

 

.......I "thought"  the CHILDREN in the stories were being offered and drinking beer.  Granted, maybe they were teenagers and I misunderstood the context.

 

I do understand that some people are concerned about drinking for moral, religious or other reasons.  The difference is highly cultural however, so use the programme or not, based on whether you are interested in that kind of exploration.  Most British children see their parents drink safely and in moderation, so it's just an adult activity to them, no odder than talking about parents driving or going out to work.

 

.......I wasn't thrilled with the inclusion of alcohol at all, but the biggest problem I had with it was the falling down DRUNK part.

 

FWIW, many US and UK children's books talk in loving detail about candy and ice cream, neither of which have much more nutrition than a pint of beer, and both of which (in excess) lead to morbid illness.  From my point of view: everything in moderation.

 

.......I couldn't agree more.  And as far as the "everything in moderation"....the characters in the stories clearly go BEYOND moderation.

 

ETA: it might have been more polite to avoid talking about being offended and shocked by another country's culture.  Your concerns could have been expressed as useful information without the over-the-top title.

 

.......I will edit my title.  But to be fair, do you REALLY think when I posted that, that I was thinking about another country's CULTURE?  Maybe I should have been.  I also did not realize that this was a remedial program meant for older children.  I assumed the kids doing the beer drinking and falling down drunk were just that...KIDS.   I was simply reacting to something I truly was shocked about...and just didn't understand.  I certainly NEVER meant to offend anyone.  My sincere apologies. 

 

[mommymilkies]

Mainly "pointed it out" just so others could be aware of the content, especially for those families dealing with cognitive and social difficulties with their children.  We don't shelter our kiddos from beer or drinking either and OF COURSE they know that as you put it, "drinking a beer does not make one a bad person.".  I didn't mean to imply that and HOPE I didn't?  TRUE (no duh comes to mind :p).... as you said, " They're certainly not going out to drink beer with friends because of a remedial reading program."  And..."NO"...I have to respectfully disagree with you that I am "overthinking" it....not with the way my boys are.  It would definitely not be appropriate to use it with them.  

 

Everyone has their own standards as to what their children read, learn from, etc. There is such a plethora of curriculum out there though.  Good....better....best is our motto (that we strive for) as far as what our children read and watch AND, if there is a reason for what they are reading/watching...if there is something to be learned from it.  IMHO, the content in DB just seemed unnecessary and pointless.  SO....we ARE looking for something else.  Thanks for the advice, though.  Especially the "If it makes you uncomfortable, don't use it"  advice.  Got it. 

 

Didn't mean to offend....just to inform. :blush:

 

I also said I use their products for my daughter who I mentioned had learning disabilities.  She also has a profound medical condition and emotional issues that may be a "developmental disability"but we are looking for a better diagnosis.  So I know the program well, as well as issues surrounding cognitive and learning challenges in kids.  This issue in the Promethean books has been brought up before, but I'm always surprised people see it's a product from the UK and are always confounded by the differences.  They're not as glaring to me because we have a weird sense of humor here and also consume a lot of British products.  I still do think you're overthinking it largely for the reason below, but that's fine.  I overthink things, too.  I just quit reading a book for me that I should have researched and known I should not to read because of traumas in my own past.  Sometimes overthinking helps us, and sometimes we need to remember not to toss out a program because of what many users see as minor or non-existent issues.  The nonsense type of words in this program really helps kids who have trouble decoding and guessing.  And it's funny.  I guess some find it horrifying, but I find it funny, and it's intended for older remedial kids who need assistance.  It's not an average beginner phonics program. 

Mention was made of underage drinking in one of the posts.  Just for reference, the public drinking age in the UK is 16 (with food) or 18.  Parents can by law make their own decisions about when children drink at home.

 

I do understand that some people are concerned about drinking for moral, religious or other reasons.  The difference is highly cultural however, so use the programme or not, based on whether you are interested in that kind of exploration.  Most British children see their parents drink safely and in moderation, so it's just an adult activity to them, no odder than talking about parents driving or going out to work.

 

FWIW, many US and UK children's books talk in loving detail about candy and ice cream, neither of which have much more nutrition than a pint of beer, and both of which (in excess) lead to morbid illness.  From my point of view: everything in moderation.

 

ETA: it might have been more polite to avoid talking about being offended and shocked by another country's culture.  Your concerns could have been expressed as useful information without the over-the-top title.

 

L

This.  Absolutely this.  When I said overthinking it, partly it's not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  Secondly, a lot of your concerns are because it is a program from the UK and not US, so there will be language and cultural differences.  

[Neesy]

 When I said overthinking it, partly it's not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  Secondly, a lot of your concerns are because it is a program from the UK and not US, so there will be language and cultural differences.  

 

YEP....I "get" that.  As I was reading your post, that exact phrase popped in my mind..."not to throw the baby out w/ the bathwater". 

 

My "concerns" with the UK vs. US program were mainly the SPELLING of those words.  I just thought it would confuse the kids.  I also didn't fully take into account the positive effect of new/different words (sort of like nonsense words...only BETTER).  I TOTALLY get that now. :thumbup:  Now, I am thinking it would be awesome for the boys to learn new words/meanings from another country...all while learning to read better. 

 

I didn't even realize DB used a different methodology than most other phonics programs.  I just saw several people on here talking about it, using it, and liking it, so I checked out the samples.  I still don't know WHAT that "methodology" is and why it works!  Other than the different words for US kiddos to read and decode........ but that wouldn't be the case for UK kids, so that can't be it?  Someone on here said there wasn't another program like it.  Now I'm CURIOUS.  I have a bad habit of going straight to the "samples" of curriculum and if I like what I see, THEN I read about the "whys/hows".  I just didn't get that far with this one!  LOL

 

Thanks for your input! :thumbup1:

[Neesy]

The reason that I will keep recommending DB to people who have a laundry list of programs that they've tried and an older child who is NOT reading after intensive instruction is b/c DB covers an aspect of learning to read that is all but IGNORED by some of the most prominent (and popular) programs available. Specifically, for kids with visual learning quirks, DB is nearly miraculous....and simple. 

 

 

There is NO other program with the same methodology available, not that I know of.  (Maybe I should write one. :coolgleamA:  When my kids are grown and I have time.....)

 

If you simply skip the stories, you will be fine. If you need a cheap/easy substitute for story reading, I suggest McGuffey. 10min of DB, 10min of McGuffey. That will work for a great many of those kids who simply don't learn to read with Spalding or O-G or OPGTR or PP.

 

 

FWIW - Apples & Pears Spelling is excellent. My kids get tired of the didactic nature of the lessons, but they WORK. They work, and in short daily lessons. After a few YEARS of studying Charlotte Mason, I feel confident enough to do my own dictation spelling lessons. For the newbie with a dyslexic, I will absolutely recommend A&P first thing! Where something like LOE or SWR might take *HOURS* out of the school day to work, DB and A&P are 10min and 15min respectively, no teacher prep, spiral review built in, easy to implement.

 

Like I mentioned in my last post, I honestly didn't know DB used some special methodology.  I am going to read about THAT now.  I always do things backwards.  Always look at samples first, methodology/theories later. 

 

Can you elaborate on how this would work if you skip the stories?  Don't the stories reinforce the words practiced?  How would using McGuffey (or another reader) work as well?  I guess it never crossed my mind that you could skip the stories and still have it be as effective.

 

ALSO... thank you for the recommendation of Apples and Pears.  I like the sounds of the shorter lessons and the "easier to implement" part!  I was almost convinced to get the LOE and those "hours" just seemed really daunting to me.  I just CAN'T see my boys doing that.  One question about the A&P.  Do you teach BOTH the US and UK spellings when you get to those words that have variations or how do you handle THAT? 

 

One more thing if you don't mind.  Is handwriting done along with them?  Cursive?? 

 

THANKS so much!!  Watch, you'll talk me into using DB! LOL!!  Wouldn't THAT be SOMETHING!??  :laugh: :blush:

 

[Cheryl in CA]

We think the stories are hilarious, but they can be easily skipped if one is more horrified than amused.  I'm glad they have the entire book up so people can really see what they are getting and decide what is best for their family! 

 

Apples and Pears is not like it at all.  Word differences aren't an issue until Book D, and even then there are very few of them.  There are a few sentences with alcohol, but they are much more tame than DB.  They also have plenty that are just pain funny.  My favorite is: "My mother is getting older, but she is still attractive."  My son (11th grade at the time) and I laughed so hard over that one.  I don't remember the exact wording, but another one of our favorites was about a cat spraying a boy's jumper.  At first we wondered why a boy was wearing a jumper, then we found out that in the UK a jumper is a sweater, LOL.

 

[Cheryl in CA]

Like I mentioned in my last post, I honestly didn't know DB used some special methodology.  I am going to read about THAT now.  I always do things backwards.  Always look at samples first, methodology/theories later. 

 

Can you elaborate on how this would work if you skip the stories?  Don't the stories reinforce the words practiced?  How would using McGuffey (or another reader) work as well?  I guess it never crossed my mind that you could skip the stories and still have it be as effective.

 

They do contain the words they've learned, but are more of a reward for doing their work than pure reinforcement.  If I didn't care for the, I would just substitute a similar amount of text.  Since the story they use is a longer story broken into smaller sections through the book, I would probably consider doing something similar. 

 

ALSO... thank you for the recommendation of Apples and Pears.  I like the sounds of the shorter lessons and the "easier to implement" part!  I was almost convinced to get the LOE and those "hours" just seemed really daunting to me.  I just CAN'T see my boys doing that.  One question about the A&P.  Do you teach BOTH the US and UK spellings when you get to those words that have variations or how do you handle THAT? 

 

The UK spellings aren't even an issue until Book D, and then there are only a few.  When I used A&P D with my son (he was in 12th grade), we discussed the difference and then used the US spelling.  If that is problematic, I would just read ahead and make corrections in the student book with whiteout.

 

One more thing if you don't mind.  Is handwriting done along with them?  Cursive?? 

 

There is a lot of writing in A&P, but it doesn't teach writing.  Handwriting would be taught as an additional subject, though the amount of writing could be used as practice.  Everything the student sees is printed or typed (no cursive).  The font in the earlier levels is fancier than traditional print (I remember writing like that during the 70's, so maybe it's an older font?).  One of my dd's likes it and will print like that, but my other dd usually prints more normally. 

 

THANKS so much!!  Watch, you'll talk me into using DB! LOL!!  Wouldn't THAT be SOMETHING!??  :laugh: :blush:

 

 

 

[sbgrace]

Is Apples and Pears like this, too, or just Dancing Bears?

 

Thank you,

Bethany

 

Not at all. There are a few mentions of scotch in some dictation sentences. My sons, who don't have hard liquor exposure, seem to have decided it's tape! Maybe they figured it out after a bit. It's been no big deal.

 

There are some British spellings in the final book (Book D), but they've been obvious and tend to cluster in sections.

 

Apples and Pears has been such a help for my weak speller.

[FO4UR]

Like I mentioned in my last post, I honestly didn't know DB used some special methodology.  I am going to read about THAT now.  I always do things backwards.  Always look at samples first, methodology/theories later. 

 

Can you elaborate on how this would work if you skip the stories?  Don't the stories reinforce the words practiced?  How would using McGuffey (or another reader) work as well?  I guess it never crossed my mind that you could skip the stories and still have it be as effective.

 

I wait to start McGuffey until they know enough to begin the Primer with success.  McGuffey works within a controlled vocabulary, so it works well for a struggler who lacks confidence. It builds slowly. By the time we got through FT my dyslexic was able to move on from McGuffey and on to real books. We started Book C, and just did 10min DB Book C and then did buddy reading in whatever (real, living) book we were reading at the time.

 

When we started FT, he was 8 or 9 (memory is fuzzy now) and reading *barely* at a K level. He's 11yo now, completed FT and did the first 3rd of Book C before dropping DB. He's buddy reading Lord of the Rings with me now. I can't speak to how effective DB is for everyone, but it was a GOD SEND for my ds...and dropping the stories for other reading did no harm.

 

 

ALSO... thank you for the recommendation of Apples and Pears.  I like the sounds of the shorter lessons and the "easier to implement" part!  I was almost convinced to get the LOE and those "hours" just seemed really daunting to me.  I just CAN'T see my boys doing that.  One question about the A&P.  Do you teach BOTH the US and UK spellings when you get to those words that have variations or how do you handle THAT? 

 

I do one PAGE per day with A&P. (Each Level is typically 3 pages.) That makes each book last about a year. For a NT child, you can probably do more. For my dyslexic, one page is enough. With Spalding/O-G (and spin-offs) you REALLY have to work to fit everything into the daily routine or everything falls apart. With A&P you REALLY can stop at a page and not miss out. You should read up the methodology before deciding. I will admit that we did 2.5yrs of SWR before switching to DB and A&P...so my kids knew their phonograms going in.  (Though, if you start DB first, they will learn their phonograms that way.)

 

 

One more thing if you don't mind.  Is handwriting done along with them?  Cursive?? 

 

A&P uses a font that is like d'nealian. (sp?)  I use Modern Manuscript on StartWrite software for printing off copywork, and they are very similar. That font rolls smoothly into cursive. (The lowercase k is like the cursive k, for ex.) I teach cursive outside of A&P.

 

THANKS so much!!  Watch, you'll talk me into using DB! LOL!!  Wouldn't THAT be SOMETHING!??  :laugh: :blush:

 

 

Use what works for you.

 

Study the methodology. It's important. 

[Pen]

I figured there would be mixed responses and those who would think I was overreacting. ;)   

 

IMHO, it may be fine for older kiddos...that don't have any learning, social, or adoption-related sensitivities.  However, MY boys have all three,  SO.... for US the curriculum is a "no-go". :wacko:  I just felt it was necessary to "put it out there"  for everyone to be aware enough to make an informed decision...whatever their philosophy.

 

Thanks SO MUCH for the recommendations!  I've never heard of either of those programs, so YAY!  More curriculum to research!  LOL :D

 

Most any older child who is still learning basic reading almost certainly has some learning and'or social issues. 

 

How old are your children btw?

 

If you are looking for a reading program for them, you might also consider posting on Learning Challenges forum where others of us who have dealt with these sorts of issues may read it. 

 

For the moment, I'll also give you our reading program which was www.Highnoonbooks.com reading intervention and sound out chapter books. It was suited for older learners, say 7 and up, but is USA spelling and vocabulary based, and I do not recall any references to beer or other alcohol. Maybe there were, but if so either not in selections we read, or they did not stand out in my mind.

[Laura Corin]

 

.......I wasn't thrilled with the inclusion of alcohol at all, but the biggest problem I had with it was the falling down DRUNK part.

 

Falling down drunk (on your own time, not getting into a car, not ending up in hospital, a few times in your life...) is considered humorous in the UK.  Moderate drinking in general and occasional silly drinking are all considered culturally normal.  For another humorous depiction of drinking in a British school book, there's a cartoon of a priest hiccuping with a bottle in his hand and almost falling down stairs in Galore Park Latin Prep 1 to illustrate the mnemonic 'Naughty Vicars Always Go Downstairs Awkwardly'.

 

FWIW, many US and UK children's books talk in loving detail about candy and ice cream, neither of which have much more nutrition than a pint of beer, and both of which (in excess) lead to morbid illness.  From my point of view: everything in moderation.

 

.......I couldn't agree more.  And as far as the "everything in moderation"....the characters in the stories clearly go BEYOND moderation.  See above for UK habits.  And see American popular culture for the humour found in overeating (how-much-can-you-eat contests; lots of jokes about women eating an entire tub of ice-cream).  I am moderate - humour is found in recognising and ridiculing the edges of norms.

 

ETA: it might have been more polite to avoid talking about being offended and shocked by another country's culture.  Your concerns could have been expressed as useful information without the over-the-top title.

 

.......I will edit my title.  But to be fair, do you REALLY think when I posted that, that I was thinking about another country's CULTURE?  Maybe I should have been.  I also did not realize that this was a remedial program meant for older children.  I assumed the kids doing the beer drinking and falling down drunk were just that...KIDS.   I was simply reacting to something I truly was shocked about...and just didn't understand.  I certainly NEVER meant to offend anyone.  My sincere apologies. Accepted.

 

 

 

As one of the few Brits on the board I (and I am sure the other non-Americans) am careful in our phrasing in order not to offend the majority and our hosts.  That may not always be obvious but we sit on our hands an awful lot.

 

L

[IsabelC]

They seem to have a slightly unhealthy obsession with beer (although this could reflect the small number of one syllable 'eer' words to choose from - "The queer seers did leer as the peers did cheer", anyone?) And in any case, I would rather tell the kids that too much alcohol makes people go silly than try to prevent them from finding out that some people get drunk (it's actually led to some humorous conversations in which the kids have incorrectly ascribed all manner of unwise actions to excess alcohol).

 

Apart from that, it's pretty much what US texts read like to many non-US English speakers. Always that trade-off about whether it's worth it to get that excellent curriculum item but then have to 'translate', or choose a not so great option that is in 'proper' English :lol:  

[freesia]

Just as a note:

 

It sounds like you are not dealing with a child with learning issues. I would not use Apples and Pears if my children did not have great difficulty learning to spell. It has been a miraculous program here, but it is fairly teacher intensive and probably way, way too over-kill for a child who picks up spelling easily. As much as I love the program, I am hoping my youngest does not need to use it.

[sixpence1978]

I'll echo a lot of the above.

 

Dancing Bears and Apples & Pears are programs for struggling learners.  I would not use them with a child who is not struggling.

 

My DD has dyslexia, so we did/do use both of these programs.  Dancing Bears does have some strange content and words.  The words I just treated as nonsense words for sounding out.  Had no idea that they actually had meaning.  We started by skipping the stories because those were quite out there.  In the end, my DD decided she did want to read them, and I was fine with that as well.  I figured the practice was good.  She just thought they were strange.  No biggie.  If my DD didn't have learning difficulties, I would have used PP with her and called it good.  Dancing Bears has more repetition than PP, so that is why is works better for those struggling.  One page of practicing a certain phonogram wasn't enough practice here.

 

Apples & Pears is most definitely for struggling spellers as well.  There is way too much repetition for those not struggling.  It has been a god-send here.  We are half-way through book C, doing only 1 side of a page a day.  We have run into a few British spellings (centre vs center).  I just explain that that is a British spelling, cross if off, and rewrite it with American spelling.  It really hasn't been a big deal because A&P does require you to work with your child so those spellings are easy to catch.  If I didn't have a struggling speller, I would probably use a basic workbook like Building Spelling Skills and call it good.

[Cheryl in CA]

I am using A&P with a natural speller (5th grade dd).  I had used it with an older child who was a struggling speller and still had a workbook.  She saw it, started reading it, and requested that we use it.  She LOVES it and has learned from it (mostly from the morpheme sums).  She tested in Book C (the highest you can test into it) and does a level a day (I stop her at a level, she would do more if I let her) so we'll likely finish it soon.  I hadn't thought of using it with her, but it has been a good fit.

 

I'm also using Dancing Bears A with my NT 2nd grade dd, and it has been a good fit for her as well.  She is progressing more quickly than she was with our previous phonics program (Alphabet Island - a very good program).  I probably wouldn't have thought about switching her, but I found Dancing Bears for my youngest who has delays (it has truly been a godsend for him!!!) and figured I'd try it with her too because Alphabet Island is more teacher intensive and time consuming.  She didn't NEED it like my ds and would have done fine with a different program, but it's been a good fit for her as well. 

 

I guess all that to say that I wouldn't necessarily rule it out for children who don't have learning issues.  However, if I really disliked the content (more specifically of DB), I probably wouldn't struggle to make it work unless my child was having difficulty.  In that case, I don't think it would be worth the bother. 

[Neesy]

Just as a note:

 

It sounds like you are not dealing with a child with learning issues. I would not use Apples and Pears if my children did not have great difficulty learning to spell. It has been a miraculous program here, but it is fairly teacher intensive and probably way, way too over-kill for a child who picks up spelling easily. As much as I love the program, I am hoping my youngest does not need to use it.

 

Last year, both of our boys were diagnosed with multiple learning difficulties by a pediatric neuropsych....well...he "sort of diagnosed" them.  He didn't want to put it on paper and do it "officially" because in his words, our one son at least, "is a complicated case".  He recommended we do an in-depth study at our children's hospital.  He also implied they should be in public school (yes! :sneaky2:  THAT is what they need.  :cursing: UGGH!). 

 

The boys are the youngest of five that I've homeschooled.  I have known "something" was wrong/different since they were babies, but the pediatricians waved off my concerns over and over again.  They were also in preschool and that teacher waved off my concerns.  I knew of the ADD/ADHD, so I proceeded with the "better late than early" theory, as we worked on diet and supplements to help with the ADD.  I would try to do regular school with them and we got absolutely NOWHERE...mostly due to behavior and immaturity.  So we would "shelve" the schooling for awhile and do LIFE...lots of teachable moments and including them in on whatever their dad and I were doing (they both love to cook and farm ;)).  They also have been in sports and 4H.

 

Anywaaaay.... as far as what they are actually capable of or what specific learning challenges they have...I don't know?  This is the first year either of them can sit and concentrate and learn (sort of! :blink:).  As far as "spelling"...they've never had it.  Our oldest did manage to get through 100 Easy Lessons last year, though.  He just wasn't reading like our other kiddos after finishing it.  Hence...my looking at DB.  BUT.... both of them have very low IQ's (per the doc).  He said he did not see any signs of dyslexia, but honestly, I don't think he tested for other things like Dyscalculia, etc. .  Occasionally our 11 yr. old makes capital N's, 3's, the #9, b's/d's backwards, SO.........  I don't know!?  One thing that I've really noticed though is that their drawings (esp. of people) are virtually unchanged since they were very young...despite my best efforts to have them "add hair"..."where are his ears?"..."he doesn't have any feet",   "better put some clothes on them!" lol.  They are just basic stick people.  SO.....????  I remember a "test" for cognitive age/ability that had something to do with counting how many human features they put in their drawings of a person.  :wacko:

 

I feel like this school year will really tell us a lot.  Our plan is to do the children's hospital evaluation this coming summer when I have more information into how/what each of them are learning/not learning and what each of them struggle with the most...academically.

 

SO SORRY.... SO WINDY!!  LOL!  Figured I should "clarify".  :001_smile:  I can definitely see now how DB and A&P could work (despite the content :p).  Thanks to those of you that have taken time to share how it is working for you and your children!

[MerryAtHope]

LOL!  Okay...let me explain.  The "raiding the fridge thing at night" is something WE have trouble with because our adopted kiddos have issues with food...sneaking food...lying about sneaking food, hoarding food....ETC.  I probably shouldn't have even mentioned that reference.  The one I quoted about "feeling unwell" wasn't about being sick.  It was about LYING about ACTUALLY being sick...to get out of doing something.  That's what I didn't like. 

 

 

Actually, I think your reference to that is helpful for people who have adopted kiddos to know, because this can be an issue. Lying to get out of things etc... can be an issue for some kids too. Just wanted to say, I can understand why those would be a concern to think through.

[sbgrace]

Just as a note:

 

It sounds like you are not dealing with a child with learning issues. I would not use Apples and Pears if my children did not have great difficulty learning to spell. It has been a miraculous program here, but it is fairly teacher intensive and probably way, way too over-kill for a child who picks up spelling easily. As much as I love the program, I am hoping my youngest does not need to use it.

 

 

I'm using Apples and Pears with a good speller. This is just for ease, because his twin needs Apples and Pears. However, he has never complained, and I love the approach. Because Apples and Pears takes 15 minutes or less a day, it doesn't feel too teacher intensive to me. I'm sure I'd likely feel differently, though, with as many kids as you are schooling!

[Pen]

http://www.prometheantrust.org/startreading.htm

 

DB fasttrack: "is used extensively with middle and high school pupils, and with adults".  from the DB website, link above.

 

When we were starting my son was not yet middle or hs age, and could not read the sentence they provide to decide if a student is ready for it.

 

Sounds like yours are not there either as to age, and perhaps not as to reading level.

 

Highnoon which I mentioned is suited for 7 and up and does not have the issues you raise about DB. But it is particularly excellent with  "high interest/low level" learners, such as ones with "2e" dyslexia plus also very bright at same time, for example, and it too may not be a fit for your children.

 

I'd again encourage you to post on Learning Challenges forum here.

[Pen]

PS maybe regular DB or their Bear Necessities or Bearing Away programs would be more suited to your dc.

[Neesy]

Thanks, Pen!  I'll look into those.  I already looked at Highnoon and it looks really interesting.  Will check it out when I have time to really study it and get a good feel for the program.  Thanks again...really appreciate it! :thumbup: 

 

P.S.  I've been to the learning challenges forum and have done searches for reading/phonics, etc. and done a lot of "reading" over there.  To be honest, it just confused me more.  lol.  I don't know what I would ask specifically, because I don't know any details other than the boys have low IQ's. :sad:  When I figure out EXACTLY what we're dealing with, I think it will make it a LOT easier to nail down a program that will work best for them.  I guess I could ask if there are online diagnostic tests or something... to figure out specific LD's.  Hmmm....I guess I can google that one myself!  lol 

[alisoncooks]

FWIW, I believe FastTrack has basically the same content as Dancing Bears A & B, just condensed.  I think I said this upthread, but we used DB A last year, and the stories were pretty odd.  I had DB B & C on-hand for this year, but looking through them, I thought --as the levels progressed-- the stories got weirder and a bit awkward in wording (the latter was my main concern from what I saw).  This was one of the reasons we moved to High Noon this year -- mainly b/c I wanted a more "American" program (in word usage/spellings) and I wanted a program where the stories made more sense to *me.*  (Disclaimer: not 100% content with HN...but I don't suppose I will be all-the-way content with any program.)

 

That said, DB A worked amazingly well for oldest DD -- even with us skipping the stories and just doing the other pages.  If you want to give it a try, take a sharpie and cross out the words that you don't like (I always cross out kerb b/c we have an American counterpart and I don't want my DD to be repeatedly exposed to an "incorrect" spelling -- she has enough incorrect spellings in her head as it is! :D)  

 

Good luck finding something that works for your kids!

[Cheryl in CA]

You know, I really wish kids came with some kind of instructions saying exactly which curriculum would be the best for them.  It certainly would save us a lot of frustration!!  There are way too many things that I'd wished I'd found first, but I'm very thankful that I found them at all (thanks to the hive on more than one occasion!!). 

 

Threads like this also make me glad that we at least have a choice.  We may fumble around for a while, but at least we have the option to fumble around looking for the best for our kids instead of being stuck trying to make something that will never work for our child work!

[Cheryl in CA]

FWIW, I believe FastTrack has basically the same content as Dancing Bears A & B, just condensed.  I think I said this upthread, but we used DB A last year, and the stories were pretty odd.  I had DB B & C on-hand for this year, but looking through them, I thought --as the levels progressed-- the stories got weirder and a bit awkward in wording (the latter was my main concern from what I saw).  This was one of the reasons we moved to High Noon this year -- mainly b/c I wanted a more "American" program (in word usage/spellings) and I wanted a program where the stories made more sense to *me.*  (Disclaimer: not 100% content with HN...but I don't suppose I will be all-the-way content with any program.)

 

That said, DB A worked amazingly well for oldest DD -- even with us skipping the stories and just doing the other pages.  If you want to give it a try, take a sharpie and cross out the words that you don't like (I always cross out kerb b/c we have an American counterpart and I don't want my DD to be repeatedly exposed to an "incorrect" spelling -- she has enough incorrect spellings in her head as it is! :D)  

 

Good luck finding something that works for your kids!

 

I will use white out and make it into the correct spelling.  Those that are just different words I leave.  They make for good practice words because they don't know them, and sometimes we've seen or heard them and will now know what they mean, LOL.  If there is more than one sound for a phonogram and no way to tell which sound they should use, I don't count it wrong if it's a British word that has never been heard.

 

[vonfirmath]

I am not familiar with DB but wouldn't use beer so often as a discussion point with my kids, but I have had some surprises in European materials. There is a problem in MEP Y5A about how many bottles of wine at a party.

 

There is a bus song about "Bottles of wine on the wall" though the word wine is usually substituted here, the kids all know what the word SHOULD be from my understanding.

[vonfirmath]

Yup.  My dd with language processing issues and possible dyslexia THRIVED because of techniques like this.  She stopped being able to guess words.  It really was the only program that helped her.  

 

And no, I'm not offended.  First of all, I recognize a lot of the spellings and word usage because we are big fans of BBC, British lit, and British novels.  Secondly, I really did not see it as much as it's written above.  I could point out the times beer and firewhisky were talked about in HP (or a thousand other books) and I'm sure somebody would be up in arms.  My kids know beer exists.  They're not oblivious and have seen drunk people IRL and on TV.  We almost never drink, but I don't shelter them from it and they know that drinking a beer does not make one a bad person. They think stuff like the above is silly nonsense.  They're certainly not going out to drink beer with friends because of a remedial reading program.  :lol:   Honestly, I believe you're overthinking this, personally.  If it makes you uncomfortable, don't use it.  But you're overlooking some cultural and language differences and things kids can find funny but obviously won't take as advice.  Take a deep breath. 

 

You mean "butter beer" in HP wasn't root beer?! That's what I thought it meant!

 

[stripe]

There is a bus song about "Bottles of wine on the wall" though the word wine is usually substituted here, the kids all know what the word SHOULD be from my understanding.

I heard bottles of beer growing up. Most not have been such a classy crowd.

[mommymilkies]

You mean "butter beer" in HP wasn't root beer?! That's what I thought it meant!

Butterscotch. :)  And non-alcoholic.  But there's also firewhisky, etc. mentioned.  Especially in regards to Hagrid. :p

[Pen]

Thanks, Pen!  I'll look into those.  I already looked at Highnoon and it looks really interesting.  Will check it out when I have time to really study it and get a good feel for the program.  Thanks again...really appreciate it! :thumbup:

 

P.S.  I've been to the learning challenges forum and have done searches for reading/phonics, etc. and done a lot of "reading" over there.  To be honest, it just confused me more.  lol.  I don't know what I would ask specifically, because I don't know any details other than the boys have low IQ's. :sad:  When I figure out EXACTLY what we're dealing with, I think it will make it a LOT easier to nail down a program that will work best for them.  I guess I could ask if there are online diagnostic tests or something... to figure out specific LD's.  Hmmm....I guess I can google that one myself!  lol 

 

 

Yes, you could ask for suggestions for how to get them evaluated.

 

You could also give specifics about what level they are at, what you do know about their personal strengths and weaknesses, what you have already used and how it worked for them--pros and cons, etc, their needs in terms of avoiding books that would suggest things like sneaking food etc., , and also about your needs as a teacher, and ask for program recommendations. I think you probably do know from personal observation more than that they have low IQ--you know what they currently can or cannot do in various areas, for example. You know, probably, what tends to help them or tends to confuse or frustrate them.