Need help scheduling an accelerated path. Feeling so very overwhelmed.

[lisabees]

Ds is a rising ninth grader.  He is a bright student, who is interested in being an astrophysicist.  He may attend the local school district in 10th grade, so I want to make sure we cover the basic requirements.

 

I need a four year plan.  I am feeling much anxiety over this; it is making me incapable of scheduling just this year!

 

Math - AoPS - finishing up Pre-Calc this summer; AoPS Calculus for rest of school year.  Wants to take the AP Calc test in May.  Where does this leave him for the last three years?

 

English - I'd like him to have some kind of interaction with others for this class.  Online?  Community College?  

 

History - I was thinking AP Human Geography through PA Homeschoolers, but it's a lot of money for us now.  He is not very interested in History, but I think he would like it.  He can take AP Gov, Us and European History in 10th, 11th, and 12th grades.  This plan seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

Science - Sigh.  This is where I am confused.  He took AP Physics B and got a 5.  He wants to take AP Physics C exams in May (remember, this is his passion).  That path seems strange to me.  That leaves AP Biology and AP Chemistry at the high school.  What other sciences are available for the future scientist?

 

Spanish - DS took Spanish 1 - it was easy for him.  He wants to skip a year, because...

 

Japanese - Ds has always been obsessed with Japan and taught himself a bit over the years.  He is researching foreign exchange programs that he may be able to do in the next year or two.  So - he wants to get a good start on the language.  

 

AP Computer Science - He is interested in this as well.  He has a lot of programming skills already.

 

 

Aaack!  I know the benefit of homeschooling is the freedom in choosing classes according to one's passions.  But I also know we need to conform enough...

 

Ds dreams of getting into a top tier school.  He is the classic overachiever.

[regentrude]

You might want to look into dual enrollment. There are plenty of math classes beyond single variable calculus.

Other sciences courses he might be interested in, since physics is his passion: Modern Physics, Astronomy. You should see if it is possible for him to  begin taking physics courses at a university.

 

I would be extremely hesitant to send a student who completes AP calc and calc based physics in 9th grade to a highschool, unless it is a specialized STEM highschool. I have a hard time imagining that they can offer him an adequate level of coursework.

[kiana]

Dual enrollment for math and physics courses. AP or DE chemistry is probably useful, ditto computer science. Potentially online courses through Stanford OHS?

 

I can't see HS being a good fit unless they let him skip math and science and go straight for dual enrollment, or fund his online classes.

[merylvdm]

Dual enrollment will be a good idea IF the college is good. Our local community college has some good classes but on the whole it is not challenging. Our local 4 year college is fine though.

He will find AP computer science easy.

 

Other sciences - my kids did Meteorology, Epidemiology and Forensics as other sciences - you can pretty much take any field he is interested in and look for Teaching Company courses. I would then add a few books on the subject (once I even emailed a Teaching Company prof for ideas) and set a research project so you have something to grade.

 

And of course, any of the MOOCs would have relevant courses - Coursera has a lot of options now.

[MarkT]

Many CC courses are offered online so you can choose across your state for the best.  A colleague's son is now taking Differential Equations his senior year via DE at a local public HS.  So it can be done.

[Arcadia]

Math - AoPS - finishing up Pre-Calc this summer; AoPS Calculus for rest of school year. Wants to take the AP Calc test in May. Where does this leave him for the last three years

A private high school I toured had a recent graduate that did AP Calc in 9th followed by three years of college courses. The high school has an arrangement with the college for math and science dual enrollment.

[Teachin'Mine]

I'd suggest visiting your local cc and talking with someone about dual enrollment to explore options.  As others have said, I can't imagine that regular high school courses would have much to offer him, but it may be a path to getting dual enrollment paid for?   I have no idea.  Don't forget that rules about year and age that students may begin dual enrollment are often flexible for younger, more advanced students.   You can use this year to help him prepare by initiating deadlines, note-taking, time management, etc..  He may not need this, but just suggesting as these are some of the areas in which some homeschoolers need to adjust when enrolling in cc classes.  Some community colleges offer study abroad programs, so that might be something to look into as well.

[SeaConquest]

Ds is a rising ninth grader.  He is a bright student, who is interested in being an astrophysicist.  He may attend the local school district in 10th grade, so I want to make sure we cover the basic requirements.

 

I need a four year plan.  I am feeling much anxiety over this; it is making me incapable of scheduling just this year!

 

Math - AoPS - finishing up Pre-Calc this summer; AoPS Calculus for rest of school year.  Wants to take the AP Calc test in May.  Where does this leave him for the last three years?

 

I would look at dual enrollment in Multivariable Calculus, Linear Algebra, and Differential Equations through dual enrollment or something like Stanford's Online High School.

 

English - I'd like him to have some kind of interaction with others for this class.  Online?  Community College?  

 

I would look at the AP English Language and Lit courses. 

 

History - I was thinking AP Human Geography through PA Homeschoolers, but it's a lot of money for us now.  He is not very interested in History, but I think he would like it.  He can take AP Gov, Us and European History in 10th, 11th, and 12th grades.  This plan seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

Science - Sigh.  This is where I am confused.  He took AP Physics B and got a 5.  He wants to take AP Physics C exams in May (remember, this is his passion).  That path seems strange to me.  That leaves AP Biology and AP Chemistry at the high school.  What other sciences are available for the future scientist?

 

You could look at Organic Chemistry, Microbiology, and Mechanics courses through dual enrollment.

 

Spanish - DS took Spanish 1 - it was easy for him.  He wants to skip a year, because...

 

Japanese - Ds has always been obsessed with Japan and taught himself a bit over the years.  He is researching foreign exchange programs that he may be able to do in the next year or two.  So - he wants to get a good start on the language.  

 

AP Computer Science - He is interested in this as well.  He has a lot of programming skills already.

 

You might check out the university level computer science courses offered through eIMACS.

 

Aaack!  I know the benefit of homeschooling is the freedom in choosing classes according to one's passions.  But I also know we need to conform enough...

 

Ds dreams of getting into a top tier school.  He is the classic overachiever.

 

[lisabees]

Thank you all.

 

I, too, am concerned about the local high school not having the courses to support his needs.  There is no STEM high school available to us.

 

Dual enrollment seems to be the consensus.  But isn't there a maximum number of college credits he can take before being considered a transfer student when applying to colleges?  

 

What math and science course sequence would you consider best for a physics student?  He needs AP Biology and AP Chem on his transcript.  When should we fit that in?

[8filltheheart]

Thank you all.

 

I, too, am concerned about the local high school not having the courses to support his needs. There is no STEM high school available to us.

 

Dual enrollment seems to be the consensus. But isn't there a maximum number of college credits he can take before being considered a transfer student when applying to colleges?

 

What math and science course sequence would you consider best for a physics student? He needs AP Biology and AP Chem on his transcript. When should we fit that in?

Ds is just a couple hrs shy of jr standing and was considered a freshman by every college he applied to. The rule for the schools he applied was that the coursework was completed as a high school student.

 

My ds's science sequence, since his goals are similar to your ds's, might offer some alternative options. He took chem in 9th along with an astronomy class built around The Cosmos. AP Chem in 10th along with an astronomy class built around the solar system (both of these astronomy classes were based on the texts being used by schools like Berkeley and Cal Tech.) 11th he DE for cal based physics 1&2 bc he wanted real labs and real physicists. ;) he did an independent study on black holes and dark matter that he put together after becoming fascinated with certain ideas during 9th and 10th. 12th grade was modern, mechanics 1 and 2 through DE and Thinkwell bio at home.

 

As you can see, we used astronomy and independent studies for his passion while we moved forward with normal sequence stuff in 9th and 10th. Bio was his easiest class last yr. ;). Eta: ds did not take the AP bio test bc he didn't need bio. Is this for MIT? I was under the impression that students had to take bio even with an AP score, but I could be completely wrong about that since I didn't look into it very closely. Just enough to know there is a bio requirement.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

About going to a brick and mortar high school, will they accept his credits done at home? I have lived in states where the school could pick and choose what they accepted, could require end of course exams before granting credits or worst case did not grant any credit for coursework as a homeschooler. (IE a student started as a ninth grader no matter what they had done already.)

 

So make sure you know if they would place him appropriately.

 

Like others I'm dubious that a high school would have many offerings on his level.

[Teachin'Mine]

Generally, it's the less selective schools which are more concerned with the number of college credits earned.  Some of them allow for a maximum of only 30 hrs or less even if taken while in high school, before requiring that they apply as transfer students.  For the highly selective private colleges, generally there is no maximum as long as the courses were taken prior to high school graduation.  Most even allow the student to get their AA degree.  However, the more selective the college, the fewer credits, if any, they will accept towards the BA/BS degree.  Getting advanced placement in math and science is more likely than getting course credit, which is usually the goal anyway as that frees them up to take graduate courses during their four years.

 

As for sequencing, there's no limit to the possibilities.  I would consider DE for the bio and chemistry for the live teaching and labs.  He can still take the AP exams if he wants to do that.   I would decide based on the course scheduling and availability for the science courses, and follow the typical sequencing for math.  After Calculus II there's a good bit of flexibility, and he will likely place out of that after completing AOPS calculus, which I'm assuming is Calc I and II.  He'll likely want to take some computer science classes and CCs are great for foreign languages.  

[MBM]

 

 

Some ideas for future classes:

 

AP Calc BC (as opposed to AB)

AP Statistics

Multivariable Calculus/Linear Algebra

AP Physics C

AP Comp Sci

APUSH because some of the upper-tier universities want to see that a student has taken it even if they're STEM bound.

 

Here are the books our school uses to teach Japanese (links to Amazon):

Adventures in Japanese, Volumes 1 and 2, texts and workbooks

Yookoso! Continuing with Contemporary Japanese (get the audio CD, too)

Kodansha's Furigana Dictionary English-Japanese

Kodansha's Furigana Dictionary Japanese-English

   

If your son goes to a B&M school, generally, top-tier universities want to see that students have taken the most challenging classes available to them and to have done well; however, that doesn't mean a student must take all AP or honors classes.

 

If the B&M school does not offer advanced classes, Stanford Pre-Collegiate Studies or MIT OCW would be possibilities. The people at Stanford could probably advise you about sequences. From just Stanford, he could take:

 

Physics Courses

-- Heat and Light

-- Modern Physics

-- Intermediate Mechanics 1

-- Intermediate Mechanics 2

-- Intro to Quantum Mechanics

 

Math Courses

-- Multivariable Differential Calculus

-- Multivariable Integral Calculus

-- Linear Algebra

-- Modern Algebra

-- Real Analysis

-- Differential Equations

-- Complex Analysis

-- Partial Differential Equations

-- Elementary Theory of Numbers

 

Other ideas:

AoPS forums. My son asked for advice about math courses and is still friends with someone who helped him years ago.

Physics Olympiad

Astronomy summer programs. Two of my son's friends participated in the Summer Science Program (SSP) this summer and loved it.

 

Some public schools do offer advanced courses or they allow students to take classes at a nearby university or online schools. If your B&M school doesn't, you will want to make sure your son can do some sort of independent study.

 

Whatever you do, make sure he is challenged appropriately. Don't put him in a school that makes him relearn subjects he has already learned!

[snowbeltmom]

Ds is a rising ninth grader.  He is a bright student, who is interested in being an astrophysicist.  He may attend the local school district in 10th grade, so I want to make sure we cover the basic requirements....

 

AP Computer Science - He is interested in this as well.  He has a lot of programming skills already.

 

 

Aaack!  I know the benefit of homeschooling is the freedom in choosing classes according to one's passions.  But I also know we need to conform enough...

 

Ds dreams of getting into a top tier school.  He is the classic overachiever.

As Seaconquest mentioned, you might want to look into eIMACS if your son is interested in computers.  They offer a computer science track and a math track.  Both might be good options for your son now and for the remainder of high school.  The AP Computer Science course offered by eIMACS goes well beyond what is tested on the AP exam.

[lisabees]

Thank you all for such a wealth of information!  So many things to think about; so many options.

 

I especially appreciate knowing the possibilities in the math/science sequencing.

 

DS loves AoPS.  He will stick with that until he can't. ;)  Thanks for listing specific classes.  I will have him visit the AoPS forums for more insight.

 

Science - would it be too much for him to take AP Physics this year?  8, it's nice to see that your ds took AP Bio in his senior year!!

 

Taking Japanese at a cc is a fabulous idea. MBM - thanks for the Amazon links.  I will check them out as I weigh my options.  I forgot about Physics Olympiad!  Can you explain this more to me? Not sure what it is...

 

DS did attend Astronomy Camp at Kitt Peak and loved it.  Age-wise, I think he needs to wait another year or two before applying for the selective programs such as SSP.  But he is planning on it.

 

A couple of you mentioned an independent study.  DS would like do that.  Any advice on how to go about structuring that?

 

eIMACS - I have never heard of this.  I am assuming it has a good reputation?  It costs a lot.

 

Speaking of reputation - what do selective schools think of open courseware such as MIT's?  

 

Thanks again.  I am so appreciative!

 

[MarkT]

For his 10th grade year have him look into Functional Programming with Haskell (or other suitable FP language).

http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_education

 

Your son is obviously gifted and driven. If you have a university nearby you may want to speak with the Physics Dept they may have someone that could advise your son through high school.

[Mike in SA]

I mostly love what was stated above, but I have to give a little input as a math/physics guy...

 

Things that will provide the greatest long-term benefit to the budding physicist:

 

1. Get stats down NOW, before having to attack both partial differential equations and statistics simultaneously during statistical & thermal physics...  That means AoPS + AoPS + calculus-based prob & stats & statistical inference (if there is time).

2. After linear algebra + diff eq, go after topology and abstract algebra, so that he has a strong basis for differential geometry.  Astrophysics is full of differential geometry.

3. Solid chemistry -- organic is an unfortunate must in order to get to physical chemistry and biophotonics, if he should choose that branch someday.

4. Modern physics, particularly quantum mechanics,strong theory, and cosmology.

5. Optics, for the astrophysicist.  This is often overlooked, but an astronomer needs to understand the mechanics of electromagnetic radiation even more so than the mechanics of the bodies being studied.

 

That's probably more than he can fit into the next four years, but if you really need more, let me know!

[lisabees]

Thanks MarkT and Mike.  Your suggestions are greatly appreciated.  

 

Would you recommend doing Physics C this year?  Then fitting in AP Bio and AP Chem in the next two years, along with University classes or Independent Study?

 

I know many believe in Physics first, then Chem, then Bio.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[snowbeltmom]

The Physics B course will provide enough background information needed for chemistry.

 

One option may be to take AP Chemistry and AP Physics C Mechanics this year, then AP Biology and AP Physics C E&M in 10th grade.  That would give your son two additional years to study more topics in physics, while still having AP credit in the Big Three Sciences.

[MarkT]

I like the

 AP Physics C Mechanics for this year.

 

Don't plan out four years now.  Nail down the 9th grade and pencil in the 10th grade classes.  Let your son be involved!

[8filltheheart]

The physics classes my ds took required calculus as a pre-req, not a co-req. He took chem and AP chem with his independent astronomy courses until he was able to take those courses DE.   He had no interest in taking AP physics.  He wanted actual university courses.  The university where he took uni physics 1 has their first cal physics as a 5 credit hour course b/c the class meets 4 days per week + 1 hour of recitation + lab.   It was a great experience for him.

 

I am on the computer with his independent studies, so now I can post them for you: 

 

9th grade: Astronomy 1

The  Cosmos:  Astronomy in the New Millennium, ISBN:  978-0495013044, Understanding the Universe & My Favorite Universe (TC DVDs,) Mastering Astronomy  (masteringastronomy.com),  

 

This course emphasized the structure and evolution of our solar system and others, distant suns, black holes, the Milky Way, quasars, and much more.  The advancements  in astronomy, such as the Cassini mission to Saturn, gamma ray bursts, and the Deep Impact comet collision were also covered.

 

10th Grade: Astronomy 2

 The Cosmic Perspective:  The Solar System, ISBN:  978-0321642691, Mastering Astronomy  (masteringastronomy.com),  

This course focused on how our solar system functions, including the composition of planets, how they formed,  the physical characteristics they possess, and their orbits.   The basic physics and chemistry of planets, asteroids, moons, rings, atmospheres, and oceans were covered.

 

11th: Dark Matter and Black Holes:  an Independent Study

Dark Matter, Dark Energy: The Dark Side of the Universe (TC DVDs), In Search of Dark Matter (by Freeman, McNamara ISBN: 978-0387276168) Black Holes and Time Warps (by Kip Thorne ISBN: 978-0393312768), Black Holes Explained (TC DVDs), Einstein's Relativity and the Quantum Revolution: Modern Physics for Non-Scientists, 2nd Edition (TC DVDs)

 

This course was an independent dark matter and black hole study designed by student.   The course was an in-depth nonmathematical study of both dark matter and black holes.  Coverage included an explanation of the various theories of dark matter and the history as to how those theories and the concept of dark matter in general first arose; bazaar realm of physics, black holes; properties of black holes; the history behind the theory of black holes.  The course also developed the understanding of how black holes function and expanded the student's understanding of Einstein's Relativity.

[snowbeltmom]

If your son decides to take calc-based physics at a college, I would still have him sit for the AP Physics C exams, especially if he plans on applying to any "lottery" schools.  

[Kathy in Richmond]

Hi Lisa,

 

Lots of super advice already! A few more rambling thoughts for what they're worth (I'm still working on my first cup of coffee, so hopefully they'll make sense :tongue_smilie: ):

 

Math: After AoPS calculus, look at multivariable calculus, linear algebra, differential equations. Either look for courses with theory & proofs or plan to retake at the honors level in college (not a bad idea in any case if he attends a top college!) Astrophysicists need to have a solid understanding of theoretical math. 

 

AoPS offers Olympiad Geometry and occasionally Group Theory. The first would be excellent for physics & would appeal to his visual talents. The second would be fantastic for a cubing enthusiast: abstract algebra is the math behind the cube! :001_smile:

 

We were also happy with the content of the EPGY college level math courses (MBM listed several upthread). They just reorganized and are now named Stanford Pre-Collegiate University-Level Online Math and Physics. Dd found that several of her college classmates (public schoolers included) had taken huge advantage of that program in high school.

 

A good discrete math class during high school is a great choice. My kids learned those topics in summer camps and via AoPS online (counting & prob and number theory). Take a look also at MIT OCW's Math for Computer Science.

 

Statistics & Probability: Both of my kids enjoyed the algebra based AP Stats as an introduction (the PA Homeschooler class for one and self study for the other). A great follow up is this edX course offered by MIT: Intro to Probability. Beware, though, this one is calc-based coverage of both probability and statistics and is super challenging (I took it this year & got a workout.)

 

You can either audit edX classes at your own pace, or take them for a certificate, which requires keeping up with class pace & having graded homework and exams. They are the best way I know of getting an idea of what math and science classes at an elite university are actually like. I'd recommend them highly, but would advise waiting till junior or senior year for anything but auditing with edX. Coursera math classes are also challenging, but not at the edX level. Game Theory was lots of fun for me and your son could take that any time now. Game Theory 2 is also good, but slightly more difficult.

 

Computer Science: AP Comp Science would certainly be in your son's reach now; it's a fairly easy class since they dropped the AB level and no longer delve much into data structures. He could follow that up with other languages. AoPS has two Python courses...(dd is spending her days grading Intermediate Python this summer since her graders disappeared!), or he could learn Haskell as Mark recommended above (my son would agree). As snowbeltmom mentioned, EiMACs is a great choice for advanced offerings & has a top notch reputation. My son used & enjoyed their AP CS AB review course years ago.

 

Computer science classes at places like MIT and Stanford expect that you already know how to program when you enter; it's much harder to learn from scratch there. Dd would enter a CS class & be told that the homework could be submitted in one of two languages, and if you didn't know them already, well, good luck getting up to speed over the weekend!

 

USACO computing olympiad has free online training resources which go to an extremely high level (very mathematically based programming challenges). This kept my son busy for three years, and he never topped it out. He thought that it made MIT comp sci "easy" for him later! You can do the training problems (which are automatically scored) without doing the olympiad contests, but if he does choose to compete, moving up to silver or gold level before graduation looks great on applications. :001_smile:

 

Olympiads in general: If he enjoys them, they're a lot of fun, and good scores can be part of his high school accomplishments/ college apps. The AMCs are the entryway to the math olympiad, and can  be taken individually with proctors or sometimes at local high schools and/or colleges. The Physics Olympiad is not one we've tried, but the practice tests are really fun & challenging, and they welcome homeschoolers (you have to provide a proctor). At the higher olympiad levels, it's great fun to meet other equally avid high schoolers & get hooked into a network of kids, some of whom will be in your college classes later on!

 

Science: I've definitely heard of kids like your son getting 5s on the Physics C exams at an early age, so let him go for it if he's eager. I like snowbeltmom's advice to spread it out over two years, with Mechanics this year and E& M the following, so that he can mix it up with other sciences. He shouldn't run out if you look at MOOCs (for astronomy, relativity, perhaps?) and Stanford's offerings. Again, MITx has online offerings in physics (8.01 and 8.02) that are more challenging both in breadth and in depth than AP C level. Btw, my kids also were in the camp that put off AP Bio till senior year. :p

 

English: One of the best online experiences here was the PA Homeschooler AP Language & Composition class, and I highly recommend it. It's extremely interactive (I can't imagine getting that much feedback in an IRL class!) and is much more than exam prep, though they do a super job in that department.  It really brought dd's writing up to the next level and got her ready for college work.

 

Finally, it's still very early, but if he wants to keep options open for top tier schools, then now is a great time to familiarize yourself with homeschool admissions in case he stays home for all four years. Think about having a good sample of test scores over several different subjects (AP - definitely helps, SAT 2, SAT or ACT), contests & awards at a state or national recognition level (though he's got that covered already :D), and some sort of group experiences, whether dual enrollment locally or academic summer camps. You've got to show them that your homeschooler can work well and interact positively in group setting, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a standard classroom. My kids never set foot in a b&m schoolroom during middle or high school, but they got lots of group stuff in their math camps, and they had mentors that could speak to that fact in LORs. In the latter two years of high school, you'll want to think carefully about who to ask to write the LORs...  Look at each potential college's Common Data Set, too, for lots of useful info ranging from admissions to fin aid and merit awards. Especially interesting is section C7, where the college lists the importance of various admissions factors. In MIT's CDS, you'll see they only list one factor as most important: character & personal qualities! And that's most definitely in line with their mission statement.

 

Anyway, I don't think that your son is in danger of running out of stuff in the next four years. Send him down I-95 here if he does. :001_smile:  I'd love to have a kid like that again!

[snowbeltmom]

 

Science: I've definitely heard of kids like your son getting 5s on the Physics C exams at an early age, so let him go for it if he's eager. I like snowbeltmom's advice to spread it out over two years, with Mechanics this year and E& M the following, so that he can mix it up with other sciences. He shouldn't run out if you look at MOOCs (for astronomy, relativity, perhaps?) and Stanford's offerings. Again, MITx has online offerings in physics (8.01 and 8.02) that are more challenging both in breadth and in depth than AP C level. Btw, my kids also were in the camp that put off AP Bio till senior year. :p

 

 

:iagree: 

My son worked through 8.01 last year.  It covered many more topics than what was tested on the AP exam and prepared him very well for the AP Physics C Mechanics test.

[8filltheheart]

If your son decides to take calc-based physics at a college, I would still have him sit for the AP Physics C exams, especially if he plans on applying to any "lottery" schools.  

 

If the courses are taken at a regional university, I would contact admissions and the dept dean and talk to them before going through the AP process.

 

Our experience was that contacting the schools directly, the feedback was not necessarily what we had heard from outside sources.

[lisabees]

8 - Thank you for the details re: your ds's independent studies.  DS is very interested in doing something similar.  And are you saying that Admissions at top tier schools may be fine with regional university grades and there may be no need to follow up with an AP score?  I know there is a thread about this now...

 

Snowbelt - DS likes your suggestion about AP Chem and AP Mechanics this year.  I do too!  Thank you for your input. :)

 

Kathy - Thanks you so much for your thorough response and links!  It seems that ds will not have any shortage of classes available to him.  Your advice to familiarize ourselves with homeschool admissions is probably what is making me anxious about doing this right - although I know that ds will be the one guiding me over the years.  And that is the beauty of all of this.

 

Mark - Yes, DS is definitely reading all of these posts and will guide in the decision making.  It is so nice to have this board for support, as there are so many things he and I wouldn't have considered. ;)

 

ETA:  Is there enough time to fit all of these courses in one year?  

 

AP Cal (covering entire AoPS Calc book)

AP Chem (usually a year long AP course) 

AP Physics - Mechanics

Japanese at cc?

AP Computer Science 

English

History (maybe Global Studies/Human Geo kind of course?)

 

[8filltheheart]

8 - Thank you for the details re: your ds's independent studies.  DS is very interested in doing something similar.  And are you saying that Admissions at top tier schools may be fine with regional university grades and there may be no need to follow up with an AP score?  I know there is a thread about this now...

 

 

Our ds did not apply to any Ivies, so I cant address them.  But for schools like GA Tech, what we thought we knew per conventional wisdom ended up being inaccurate.  GT on their website states only credit for cal 1 for a 5 on the BC exam.   Based on what I had read, I thought that ds would most likely not receive credit for his upper level classes.  After contacting the depts and submitting his syllabi for his math and physics classes, he received credit for all of them.   He was not expected to go back and take a cal 2 course.   The only requirement was that he take a theory of vectors or matricies (or something??) and he would be exactly where he was credit wise at our local uni.   The dean he spoke with was very impressed with the coursework he had completed.

 

FWIW, looking at the proposed schedule you have listed, I would't have a 9th grader pursue it, but you know your ds better.  Ds took the AoPS cal class and AP chem at the same time and they were both very time consuming.

[MarkT]

Nice course sequence flow charts here (wherever you take them):

 

https://ohsx.stanford.edu/university-math

 

https://ohsx.stanford.edu/university-physics

[Kathy in Richmond]

ETA:  Is there enough time to fit all of these courses in one year?  

 

AP Cal (covering entire AoPS Calc book)

AP Chem (usually a year long AP course) 

AP Physics - Mechanics

Japanese at cc?

AP Computer Science 

English

History (maybe Global Studies/Human Geo kind of course?)

Four APs and a cc course might be kind of intense for 9th grade. Lisa, has he already had a solid high school chemistry class, and is it fresh in his memory?

 

As for APs versus dual enrollment, what specific schools is he aiming for? If the Ivy-MIT-Stanford level, I'd have AP scores to back up dual enrollment grades. It's more for the reason of admissions than whether or not the classes transfer for credit. I've just seen many more successful homeschool results with kids who have APs than kids who don't. It gives the admissions committees a direct apples-to-apples comparison, and it shows that you can handle the pressure of studying a difficult subject & retaining it for an end of year exam. I wouldn't do that with a kid who felt pressured by testing, but it seems that your ds is OK with that.

[MarkT]

 

ETA:  Is there enough time to fit all of these courses in one year?  

 

AP Calc (covering entire AoPS Calc book)

AP Chem (usually a year long AP course) 

AP Physics - Mechanics

Japanese at cc?

AP Computer Science 

English

History (maybe Global Studies/Human Geo kind of course?)

 

Do the AP Chem in 10th or 11th grade.

The only science I would double up with is Biology (don't really need AP unless Pre-med).

 

How about a Logic class instead of AP Computer Science for 9th. He could "mess around" with programming on the side.

 

Leave time and room for your son to achieve a 5 on both the  AP Calc and Physics C classes.

 

[lisabees]

I absolutely agree with all of you that 4 APs would be way too much.

 

Kathy - no, Chemistry is not fresh in his mind.  Should we stick with just Mechanics or both Mechanics and E&M, if we drop AP Chem and AP Computer Science?

 

Mark- I think we will have him select a programming course that he will enjoy.  No pressure. ;)

 

We will rethink Japanese, too. Maybe something that takes less time and energy that attending the cc.  Hmmmm.

[Kathy in Richmond]

I vote for saving AP Chem for the future. It's time consuming!

 

You can start in on Mechanics and see how the pacing goes. It would be easy enough to add in E&M if it's going fast. The only caution I can think of is that he's taking AP Calculus concurrently, so a lot of the math in Physics C will be new instead of review, and it might not fly so fast. E&M especially uses higher math - it's even nicer to have multivariable calculus concurrent with that class...then he'd understand concepts like line integrals, gradients, and conservative forces better.

 

So I'd say try AP Mechanics, AP Calculus (BC?), and AP Computer Science this year. Drop the AP CS to "just messing around" if it's too much, but I have a feeling that he can handle that just fine, especially if he's already played around with programming a lot. Does he already know Java?

 

Then add in English, social science, foreign language & he'd have a very solid set of classes.

[plansrme]

 

 

Math - AoPS - finishing up Pre-Calc this summer; AoPS Calculus for rest of school year.  Wants to take the AP Calc test in May.  Where does this leave him for the last three years?

 

. . ..

History - I was thinking AP Human Geography through PA Homeschoolers, but it's a lot of money for us now.  He is not very interested in History, but I think he would like it.  He can take AP Gov, Us and European History in 10th, 11th, and 12th grades.  This plan seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

Science - Sigh.  This is where I am confused.  He took AP Physics B and got a 5.  He wants to take AP Physics C exams in May (remember, this is his passion).  That path seems strange to me.  That leaves AP Biology and AP Chemistry at the high school.  What other sciences are available for the future scientist?

 

. ...

 

I have been out of town and am late chiming in here, and I may not have anything new to add, but as I have a daughter in a similar predicament but a couple of years ahead of you, I am going to share what she has done.

 

My daughter is now a rising junior.  She took Calc AB as a homeschooled eighth grader, Calc BC as a freshman in a STEM magnet and then dual-enrolled at Georgia Tech for Calc II and III as a sophomore.  You aren't in Georgia by any chance, are you?  Tech has a program that does DE for Calc II and III on the high school campuses--the class is live at Tech and beamed into HS classrooms all over the state.  The Tech professor and his TAs grade assignments, and the class is indistinguishable from that taken by on-campus students.  This semester, she is taking classes on campus at Tech, differential equations and Chem II, and she will take another math and organic chem there next semester.  She will then be out of math classes that Tech will let dual-enrolled students take unless she can get some sort of waiver, which we do not expect.  She will have five math credits from high school at the Calc BC and above level, and all of the math she needs for most engineering or other hard science degrees, so it would not be a problem for her not to take math her senior hear of high school.

 

As for science, she took AP Chem in eighth grade, a post-AP chemical engineering class as a freshman (STEM magnet--probably not an option many places), Physics C as a sophomore and is taking advanced chem (organic--yipppee) and two physics classes at Tech for her junior and senior years. She will be out of chem and physics that are available to DE students at Tech but can take some other random sciences such as astronomy and geology to fill in her schedule.  The vast majority of her classmates, however, will have AP Chem, AP bio and Physics C as their only advanced sciences, and her senior classmates last year were accepted into a bunch of Ivies and near-Ivies:  Yale, Dartmouth, Harvard, Stanford, Cal Tech.  Of course they mostly turned them down in favor of Georgia Tech, but they did get in to schools your son may want to consider.

 

As for history, if he is a STEM-type, he might love economics.  My daughter did, and the AP econ exams are fairly easy to self-study for.  The material is difficult, but they are easier than the histories to self-study because it is straightforward--more like a math or science than a warm fuzzy history.  We self-studied (and I do mean "we," as I relearned the material right along with her) for about $10 in used textbooks from half.com and an exam prep book, and she got easy 5s on both exams.  That might be an alternative before he enrolls in a B&M HS.  As for whether the school will accept the credit, my daughter's did when I researched the policy on  "credit by examination" and argued that if an AP exam doesn't constitute an acceptable credit, nothing does.  He could then take AP World or APUSH at the B&M HS.

 

Final thoughts, do you have a four-year school nearby through which he can do DE?  I know some two-year schools are rigorous, but the ones here are not--they are easier than high school AP classes, and I wouldn't expect the admissions reps at highly-selective colleges to have a good handle on the rigor of every single CC in the country.  A good four-year school, on the other hand, I would expect to mean something.  We are very fortunate to have one of the best engineering schools in the country in our neighborhood, and we decided that if she couldn't do DE there, she wasn't doing it anywhere.  Thank goodness she got in, though, as I did not have a good Plan B.

 

Whew, that got long, but I hope some little tidbit of it was helpful. 

 

ETA:  credit by examination, not examination by credit.  Oops.

 

[lisabees]

Thank you Kathy.

 

Ds will likely be shooting for the ivies, but we won't be able to afford them!

 

We need a good school that gives plenty of merit! 

[lisabees]

plansrme - thanks for chiming in!  Your dd's path does sound similar to what we are discussing.  So glad you shared it.

 

Nope.  Not in GA.  We are in a suburb of Philly.  Our community college does not have a fabulous reputation.  Within 45 mins, we have many schools, but Temple may be the only affordable option.  Delaware Valley College is 5 minutes away  Not sure how much that would cost per class, but they just built a new science building and are in the process of becoming a university.

 

What an interesting observation regarding Economics.  I will keep that in mind.  DS likes history enough; it has just never been his focus.

 

How lucky your dd is to have Georgia Tech available to her!

 

 

[Kathy in Richmond]

Lisa, Georgia Tech has some merit scholarships available (google their Presidential Scholarship). It might be something to keep in mind for the future. I taught in the math dept there a long time ago, and it's an awesome place!

plansrme - I enjoy your sharing about the GA Tech distance calculus classes and dual enrollment on campus. Professor Morley is an old friend of mine, & it's so interesting to see how the program has developed over the years. When I was there, we were just starting to discuss videotaping math classes for broadcast elsewhere in Georgia. :001_smile:

[plansrme]

Lisa, Georgia Tech has some merit scholarships available (google their Presidential Scholarship). It might be something to keep in mind for the future. I taught in the math dept there a long time ago, and it's an awesome place!

 

plansrme - I enjoy your sharing about the GA Tech distance calculus classes and dual enrollment on campus. Professor Morley is an old friend of mine, & it's so interesting to see how the program has developed over the years. When I was there, we were just starting to discuss videotaping math classes for broadcast elsewhere in Georgia. :001_smile:

 

Lisa, the Presidential scholarship is definitely a good one.  We had a long talk with one of the recipients a couple of weeks ago, as she was my daughter's orientation guide.  She says they emphasize a global focus, so if your son can brush up on his global focus, whatever that is, he might have a good shot at it.  This girl says she was an alternate for the Presidential the first time but got it when someone else declined, and what she was missing was the global focus.  

 

Kathy--my daughter loved Morley's classes.  She was taking those at the same time she had disorganized, lazy HS teachers for APUSH and AP Lang, and the contrast had a significant effect on her in that it made her want to ditch HS and take as many Tech classes as she could her last two years.  We had heard that Morley was the driving force behind the distance calc program, and my student, at least, greatly appreciated his efforts.  DE in Georgia is a sweet deal, I have to say, and the people in charge of it at Tech have been incredibly helpful and responsive.  That is an amazing campus--college sure isn't like it used to be!

[Caroline]

Lisa, Georgia Tech has some merit scholarships available (google their Presidential Scholarship). It might be something to keep in mind for the future. I taught in the math dept there a long time ago, and it's an awesome place!

 

plansrme - I enjoy your sharing about the GA Tech distance calculus classes and dual enrollment on campus. Professor Morley is an old friend of mine, & it's so interesting to see how the program has developed over the years. When I was there, we were just starting to discuss videotaping math classes for broadcast elsewhere in Georgia. :001_smile:

I have been the high school teacher monitoring from the other end of Dr Morley's lectures. The first time, I took notes and did all the homework with the class. It is getting harder and harder to be accepted into the DE program there.

 

I know that a lot of on campus GT students like to get into Prof Morley's sections of Calc II and III.

 

Plansrme, I think my DS is taking differential equations this semester. PM me if you want to figure out if our kids are in the same class.

[MBM]

I don't know much about the Physics Olympiad. My son hasn't participated but some of his friends have. For a kid who likes physics, it might be fun.

 

If you are in Philly, does Penn offer any special programs for high schoolers? Maybe a math circle? These might not be advertised much.

 

At this point I would suggest you just research which universities have good astrophysics programs so that you can design a course of studies that meets their minimum requirements and preferably goes beyond reflecting your son's interests. Also, sign up to receive newsletters already. Caltech has one. They also have some info specifically for homeschoolers.

 

Don't write off the Ivies and other selective schools as being too expensive. Their financial aid can be very good. You could also look into schools that offer co-op programs. MIT does. QuestBridge might also be worth checking out.

 

[Elisabet1]

Ds is a rising ninth grader.  He is a bright student, who is interested in being an astrophysicist.  He may attend the local school district in 10th grade, so I want to make sure we cover the basic requirements.

 

I need a four year plan.  I am feeling much anxiety over this; it is making me incapable of scheduling just this year!

 

Math - AoPS - finishing up Pre-Calc this summer; AoPS Calculus for rest of school year.  Wants to take the AP Calc test in May.  Where does this leave him for the last three years?

 

English - I'd like him to have some kind of interaction with others for this class.  Online?  Community College?  

 

History - I was thinking AP Human Geography through PA Homeschoolers, but it's a lot of money for us now.  He is not very interested in History, but I think he would like it.  He can take AP Gov, Us and European History in 10th, 11th, and 12th grades.  This plan seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

Science - Sigh.  This is where I am confused.  He took AP Physics B and got a 5.  He wants to take AP Physics C exams in May (remember, this is his passion).  That path seems strange to me.  That leaves AP Biology and AP Chemistry at the high school.  What other sciences are available for the future scientist?

 

Spanish - DS took Spanish 1 - it was easy for him.  He wants to skip a year, because...

 

Japanese - Ds has always been obsessed with Japan and taught himself a bit over the years.  He is researching foreign exchange programs that he may be able to do in the next year or two.  So - he wants to get a good start on the language.  

 

AP Computer Science - He is interested in this as well.  He has a lot of programming skills already.

 

 

Aaack!  I know the benefit of homeschooling is the freedom in choosing classes according to one's passions.  But I also know we need to conform enough...

 

Ds dreams of getting into a top tier school.  He is the classic overachiever.

He is not going to be able to function at a local high school. He will have nothing to do, he will be way ahead. He will start 10th grade ahead of anyone who has graduated and they will have nothing to offer him. Not even a STEM school will fit him.

 

Really, the only choice you will have is to graduate him early. No community college is going to be able to have enough for him to go for 4 years.

[MBM]

He is not going to be able to function at a local high school. He will have nothing to do, he will be way ahead. He will start 10th grade ahead of anyone who has graduated and they will have nothing to offer him. Not even a STEM school will fit him.

 

Really, the only choice you will have is to graduate him early. No community college is going to be able to have enough for him to go for 4 years.

 

Most high schools will not have the math or science classes but some do offer advanced classes. At my oldest son's high school, Illinois Math and Science, students could take very advanced math and science classes and many did.  They could also work with scientists at places like Fermilab. My youngest son has been taking independent study in math since his sophomore year when he took Abstract Algebra. His public high school counsels him and oversees all of it. When necessary, they also work with a local university, either Northwestern or U of Chicago. I know of several other public high schools in the Chicago area that are similar. There are not many like this, but they do exist. Since lisabees lives near Penn, the math and science departments there might have some helpful suggestions.

 

To prepare for a more selective school, a student could also take the Stanford Online or MIT edx courses like Kathy has suggested. My youngest son has a friend who took some of the advanced math classes from Stanford during high school and got into and finished Harvard's Math 55 course. Universities with strong math and science programs have a good idea which online courses are good. The eIMACS math and CS classes are very good, too. My youngest took math logic and comp sci from them.

 

The tricky part is finding out exactly what resources are available to advanced high school students and which ones are good.

[lisabees]

MBM, 

 

Just seeing your post now, because I was having lunch with my good friend...

 

whose father is a math professor at Penn.

 

Geez.

 

Thanks for the reminder.

[MarkT]

 

 

Nope.  Not in GA.  We are in a suburb of Philly.  Our community college does not have a fabulous reputation.  Within 45 mins, we have many schools, but Temple may be the only affordable option.  Delaware Valley College is 5 minutes away  Not sure how much that would cost per class, but they just built a new science building and are in the process of becoming a university.

 

 

 

Look into Penn State and other PA CCs.  Good online classes could be available for DE.  Google and ask around.

 

[MarkT]

1) To prepare for a more selective school, a student could also take the Stanford Online or MIT edx courses like Kathy has suggested. My youngest son has a friend who took some of the advanced math classes from Stanford during high school and got into and finished Harvard's Math 55 course. Universities with strong math and science programs have a good idea which online courses are good. The eIMACS math and CS classes are very good, too. My youngest took math logic and comp sci from them.

 

2) The tricky part is finding out exactly what resources are available to advanced high school students and which ones are good.

1) Stanford Online looks like a sideline business for the school, prices aren't cheap, maybe they give out scholarships.

 

2) And the good folks here will help out finding those resources.

[8filltheheart]

Look into Penn State and other PA CCs.  Good online classes could be available for DE.  Google and ask around.

 

 

Just be cautious with online classes if you want them to transfer for credit.   We ran into multiple schools which would not give credit for courses completed online.

[MBM]

Lisabees, if you can bend your friend's father's ear, I bet he would have some good advice, or maybe he could suggest someone else who could help you. A number of the programs that my kids used and liked were not advertised at all. We found out about them through other people.

 

I did a little searching and it looks like Penn offers some outreach and summer programs for kids. I don't know much about the details, but you might want to check them out if you haven't already.

 

http://www.sas.upenn.edu/summer/programs/highschool/academies/physics (these look expensive!)

http://www.physics.upenn.edu/outreach/

 

They also offer a Young Scholars Program for juniors and seniors in high school which is free to kids who are enrolled in a City of Philly public HS or charter HS.

 

http://www.sas.upenn.edu/lps/students/high-school/admissions

 

 

1) Stanford Online looks like a sideline business for the school, prices aren't cheap, maybe they give out scholarships.

 

2) And the good folks here will help out finding those resources.

 

Yes, that's true. I'm just throwing out Stanford Online as an idea to consider, one of many.

 

I do agree that it's possible to find less expensive resources. Some of my kids' most helpful resources were free.

 

ETA: the edx courses look good.

 

[lisabees]

Yowza!  That Penn Physics Program is super expensive!

 

We will be attending a party at my friend's parent's house next weekend.  Many math professors and graduate students will be attending.  We will be sure to bother them with questions! ;)

 

Mark - Penn State is a wonderful idea.  And we do have a campus fairly close to us.  It will be so much easier when the kid drives!

 

8 - Thanks for the heads up about credits.