How do you feel about schedules?

[Mystie]

On different posts around the forum I know I've seen people caution others about having times on their daily lists, and I get that. I have 5 young kids and I know things never go as planned. 

 

I've tried having just routines and avoiding time-slots and I've tried MOTH uber-scheduling and I've probably done everything in between because I love to tweak plans. :) 

Here's the thing: After my kids can read, I have found that putting a schedule (in hour chunks, not micromanaged) in plain view for the day has actually *reduced* the friction and conflict we've had in our homeschool days. When I forget to update it (it's on a whiteboard and I do it each morning), they *ask* me to fill in the schedule!

 

So, I don't think there's necessarily something wrong with schedules themselves, but with the way we use them. 

 

I wrote about it on my blog today: Three Secrets About Schedules

 

I'd love to hear your different experiences with different uses of schedules!

[regentrude]

I found it more productive to let my children choose how long they want to spend on a certain subject on a given day. Depending on a child's age, spending a longer amount of time on one subject may be more productive than hitting every subject daily. They may be engrossed in researching a history topic and want to keep going for three hours. Or they may be working on a tough math problem that takes two hours to solve. In those cases, having a schedule that requires them to move on to the next thing would be detrimental.

I require time on task, i.e. a certain number of hours that must be spent on academic work, using any of the resources researched and approved by me. Other than mandating an hour of daily math for DS, I have never scheduled anything. For DD, I did not even schedule math, because she would prefer to work in binges, 3 hours one day, none the next, and had the attention span to do so.

 

One general issue I see with scheduling is that it would require to know absolutely how much time a certain task is going to take a particular child. I've given up predicting how long a math or science section is going to take. Even working everything out myself does not translate into knowing how long it will take the kid. Every time I have attempted to make a schedule, we were off schedule by the 2nd week of the semester.

[Mystie]

Regentrude – that's fascinating! Did your kids start working that way when they hit the logic years or were they like that even as young kids?

 

My oldest will be 11 next year, so all my experience is for younger years. I can't fathom any of my children voluntarily spending 2 hours on a math problem. :) But if they were engrossed in something like that, I wouldn't interrupt their flow and concentration.

We are still very much in the "parent at elbow" phase as SWB called it, so the time limit is like telling them "Hey, even though it feels like it will last forever, I'm only going to hold you to this for 20 minutes. You can make it."

[hepatica]

I think it matters what ages the children are. My oldest (13) has weekly assignments and she chooses how much time to spend daily on each (except math, which she is required to completely daily). However, she also has a very strict daily schedule, mostly of her own choosing. She leaves the house at 12:45pm each day to attend a preprofessional ballet school until 8pm, so she must complete her work from 7am to noon and on the weekends. I think having grown up with a regular schedule has helped her in this regard. 

 

For my younger kids we have a somewhat flexible daily schedule. Breakfast around 7:30, instrument practice, school from 9am until lunch (I spend 60-90 minutes with each of them during this block), walk the dogs after lunch. The rest of the day varies with our weekly schedule. So basically, we have a very regular schedule during the morning, and a more variable schedule in the afternoon. 

 

Only occasionally have I need to put this schedule in writing. By now, it is mostly habit.

[hepatica]

My 10 yo would spend three hours designing wedding dresses, but sadly not so much on math, lol.

[regentrude]

Regentrude – that's fascinating! Did your kids start working that way when they hit the logic years or were they like that even as young kids?

 

I did not start homeschooling until 5th grade (DS) and 6th grade (DD). When we started, we fell into this kind of interest driven, relaxed schooling. It was very easy to do during the middle grades. (High school is a bit harder since there are definite things to cover and outside classes to be taken into account.) It may help that I never used any "curricula" with specific lessons following a specific schedule.

[lotsofpumpkins]

We've never really followed a schedule before, but as my dc get older, they are actually asking for one. I think we also need one now, because I'm going to be juggling a lot this year with 5 school-age dc.

 

Our schedule is not too specific, and I won't stress if it needs adjustment!

 

7:30 a.m. Wake up, individual devotions, get dressed, make beds, breakfast

8:30 a.m. Bible time (memory work, Bible story)

8:50 a.m. Math (everyone works on math at the same time and I'll be available for flashcards, setting speed drill timers, answering questions, etc)

9:50 a.m. snack

10:00 a.m. Language Arts (everyone works on LA subjects at the same time and I'll be available to help where needed.)

11:00 a.m. Latin (the oldest 3 will sit at the table and I'll teach the lesson at the whiteboard. The youngest 3 can go play in the playroom.)

11:30 a.m. History (everyone together in the living room or at the kitchen table; haven't decided yet)

12:00 p.m. Lunch

12:30 p.m. Science (7th grade independently, 4th and 6th graders with me. Free reading time for the 1st and 2nd graders.

1:00 p.m. Science (1st and 2nd graders with me). Free reading time for the 7th, 6th, and 4th graders.

1:30 p.m. Misc subjects (Logic on Tuesdays, Nature Walk on Thursdays, Art on Fridays)

2:00 p.m. Piano practice (plus finish up any uncompleted work). One person has typing/computer time each day during this time as well.

[5LittleMonkeys]

As my kids have gotten older and as I've been doing this longer I've gotten away from scheduling anything in regards to times or days.   Which is a total 180 from what I used to do ... scheduling what page what day and for a specific amount of time....UGH, it was a time and energy waster for me.  I found that I spent way too much time constantly tweaking my schedule.  If something came up during the day that caused us to get off schedule I'd have to tweak the schedule, if we ended up taking an impromptu day off I'd have to tweak the schedule, if someone ended up taking longer on a concept than I had anticipated I'd have to tweak the schedule....it was a never ending endeavor to keep the schedule current.  We were ruled by that schedule and it caused us to become box checkers. It created an atmosphere of "doing what's on the schedule" instead of educating ourselves.  

 

Now, my older kids know what their subjects are and have assignments but they determine for the most part when and for how long they work on them.   With the older 3 I give due dates for certain assignments and give them goals to work toward - for example: be to lesson X by then end of X month. One of them works on subjects in chunks a lot of the time, doing 2 hours of a subject one day and none the next.  One of them prefers to do a lesson a day in each of her subjects, and the younger of my "olders" has just recently started to find her own rhythm that works best for her.   I do still follow a routine with my younger two but that's mostly so that I can get their work done without interruption ... the olders know when I'm available to help them and so adjust their own day accordingly. 

 

This new way of living with homeschooling feels more organic and natural to us.  Our studies feel like a natural part of our day now instead of it feeling like we have to set aside this chunk of our lives daily to devote to "work".  I think the key to making a schedule work for you is just that, it needs to work FOR you...it shouldn't rule you or hold you hostage. 

[Mbelle]

I found that the strict schedules don't work for me, but I do need to have routines and flow and a few things do need to be scheduled, such as start time, lunch time, my 3pm coffee time,  and supper time.  Other things will naturally be scheduled such as any on line classes or sport or music class.  Those things anchor and help us have our routines in between.  I also start school lite about 6 weeks before our regular school year, getting some things out of the way to give us gracious time in our regular school year schedule.  During the school year I do schedule 6 weeks on and 1 week "off".  If we are on track then we don't do school that week, if we are not on track this gives us a week to catch up.  It also gives me time to clean and organize what has no doubt started to get shoved into cupboards and closets.

 

 

[texasmama]

We have a routine but not a schedule.  The olders are completely responsible for the homework for their outside classes, and this works well.  My main issue is me.  I mess around on the internet too much and delay our start.  The kids are not the problem.  (Places bag over head in shame...)

[Clear Creek]

Having a strict hourly schedule helped us one year when my older two were in mid-elementary and had a serious dawdling problem. I gave them more time than they needed to complete each subject, and whatever they didn't complete because they were goofing off was put off until the end of the day when they normally had free time. They learned that my time was valuable, and they could squander their own personal time but they were not permitted to squander mine. The problem pretty much resolved itself, and I no longer have to schedule our days out like that...now that I am teaching three kids, the natural consequence of wasting time is having to wait for me to finish up with another child before I can work with them if they aren't ready for me when I am available to work with them.

[Mystie]

Having a strict hourly schedule helped us one year when my older two were in mid-elementary and had a serious dawdling problem. I gave them more time than they needed to complete each subject, and whatever they didn't complete because they were goofing off was put off until the end of the day when they normally had free time. They learned that my time was valuable, and they could squander their own personal time but they were not permitted to squander mine. The problem pretty much resolved itself, and I no longer have to schedule our days out like that...now that I am teaching three kids, the natural consequence of wasting time is having to wait for me to finish up with another child before I can work with them if they aren't ready for me when I am available to work with them.

 

That's been my experience, too. Having the posted schedule up on the board shows them that if they waste their time, it's their free time that will be sacrificed. And, on the positive side, if they get their work done, they have free time to look forward to. 

 

Plus, as I add kids to the family and to the school routine, there are too many pieces to juggle in my head anymore. The schedule is decisions already made about who gets my time next.

[Mandy in TN]

I have approached our school day all kinds of ways. Some ways have worked for a year or part of a year. Some ways have worked better for some of my children than others.

 

Now, I am down to one child home schooling. A couple of years ago, I was here complaining about prepubescent boys. There were a number of threads. ;) Rather than super-scheduled, I decided to go the other way. This past year, I put a fair chunk of ds's work in a weekly folder. I let him decide what he wanted to do, how much, and when. He just needed to finish everything in the folder by the end of the week. He wants to do folders again this next year. This is what is working with this particular child right now, but you know those little critters grow and change. What works great today may not be a good fit tomorrow.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Mom22ns]

I'm a schedule person. My kids really appreciated having a schedule. They wanted to know what was next or when we will be finished with "x". A schedule helped us all stay on track and have clear expectation. That said, my kids have also always had a "to do" list. There are times in the schedule when I am working with one child or the other or when I'm making lunch or whatever and they have "to do list time". They have total flexibility in how they organize that time. 

 

The idea of following interest and working on things at their own pace and interest as Regentrude does just wouldn't have worked here. Ds is autistic spectrum and obsesses. The obsessions would have driven him and nothing else would ever have been accomplished. Teaching him to find balance has been a bit part of life - BIG. 

 

At this point, with both my kids in high school, I only schedule their time with me. "Be at the whiteboard at 8:30 for math". They are given a weekly schedule and the times they are with me are listed. The other things they need to accomplish are also listed "to do list" style. Ds's only scheduled time with me this year will be for Chemistry. Schedules grow and change as your family does. They are tools. Some thrive on them, some die by them, some just can't seem to find peace either way. Find the balance that works for your family now and don't be afraid to change it later.

[RootAnn]

We have to have a schedule or it won't all get done. Oldest has morphed to a weekly checklist - but certain things are "on the schedule" - time with me and next year - time on the computer for her online classes. Everyone else is "on the schedule" because almost everything is 'at elbow' or 'mom-taught' or 'mom-led'. If they can do it independently, it is on the schedule during a time when I am working with someone else. During the summer, they can do their math whenever they want - but that usually is when I'm working with another kid on their math, or listening to one of them read aloud, or doing crafts with ds#2, or trying to make lunch. It all works so much smoother when everyone knows what we're going to do, when we're going to do it, and how long we're going to spend.

 

My kids, I've found, don't like to do big chunks of any one subject. They are absolutely done with something after an hour - unless it is reading for dd#1 or drawing for dd#2.

[g1234]

Every year (or is it four times a year? or five hundred?) I seriously reconsider approaching our homeschooling the way Regentrude has described.  I love the idea.  In fact, we have done it for short periods of time.  And much as I want it to, it never works.  Or maybe I should say it works too well.  Or....how do I say it?

 

What Momto2Ns writes sounds familiar to me, even though we don't have autism spectrum issues going on.  Also, my kids do not resist formal education.  They try hard, and generally have good attitudes and more or less like learning.  So it always seems to me this way of structuring time should work great. 

 

Our problem is that when we try to do it this way, my kids take whatever subject they're studying, and, since they have no time constraints or breadth requirements, they go deep, and then deeper, and then deeper.  If they're reading history, they might start reading about an empire, and then they see a reference to a specific kingdom that was swallowed by the empire, and then they want to look up more information about that empire, and then they get fascinated with one tiny aspect of that kingdom's economy....and they really learn a lot, and they may even write a really cool paper on it.

 

Why is this a problem?  I mean, really, many graduate school advisors would be thrilled to have a student like this.  So next I end up feeling guilty that I can't be 100% comfortable with what they're doing.  Because if we're not careful, it will be five weeks later, and we haven't progressed forward in time (chronologically) even one step in our history studies.  If we did this for a year, I'm pretty sure we'd cover maybe 100 years, at best.  We would have learned a tremendous amount about research and high-level thinking, and written a few really good papers.  Which is truly terrific.  But we'd be sorely lacking in general knowledge, the kind that could help them place those 100 years in perspective and see wider patterns in the development of human societies.

 

So then I spin off into mommy guilt: should I feel guilty because my kids aren't getting a good breadth of knowledge?  Or should I feel guilty because I can't just appreciate the deep and excellent work they are doing and remind myself how many teachers would love to have students like that?  (I know that I should feel guilty about neither.  Knowing doesn't make it true, though! :huh: )  We don't have a lot of state requirements, which means I have the pleasure of agonizing over these decisions for our own family.

 

Further complicating the matter is that while my kids just love digging deep like that, they also really want the breadth of knowledge they know they can get. For instance, my oldest is going to study physics next year, and she really wants to see how much of the book she can study.  Last year we had to leave a few chapters out of chemistry, and that frustrated her, because she pretty much thinks anything she studies is super cool and doesn't want to miss anything.  But I know that if I didn't make out a weekly schedule, and instead just said, "Six hours on task.  Do your math and then whatever other subjects you want," she might spend the next three weeks following bunny trails on one subsection of one chapter.  Not because she's trying to get out of work--in fact, she's working very hard--but because she doesn't have that external structure to keep her skimming the surface a little more.

 

So if I leave it up to them, since they have impulses for both depth and breadth, they can't help but fall down the rabbit hole of depth, time after time, because they find everything so endlessly fascinating.  If we just homeschooled by time on task, I am certain we would have almost no breadth.  So what we have usually fallen back to is weekly goals.  Which works okay.

 

Except that I always worry that I'm depriving them of one of the potential massive benefits of homeschooling for kids like them who enjoy depth so much.

 

I guess in the end that means we do: routine, yes, but not ironclad; schedule, yes, but not rigidly; insecurity, most definitely, most of the time!

 

 

[jnaj]

I have found that a routine works best for us. We have specific goals and assignments that must be done each day, and TYPICALLY we do things around the same time every day, but we keep things open to do other things as long as we know we still have to meet our daily goals and assignments. When I have tried to schedule things by the hour etc it just stresses me out because I feel like I am always running "behind" schedule. I like to allow time for us to really dig into things and ENJOY things. Scheduling things too specifically stresses me out to the point where things are just not enjoyable.

[threeturn]

I have always been a routine person, but I am seriously thinking about a schedule lately. Mystie's post and her CM quote has really been speaking to me and I am looking for that kind of peace. I figure it can't hurt to give it a try. Anyway, a blog reader asked if I would make her a schedule form, so I did and am offering it for download. I am seriously thinking of using it to make a schedule for myself.

[lewelma]

I have chosen to follow Regentrudes lead on this one for my older.  My older knows that he should work on Mandarin every day, and he knows that he has a physics schedule to keep because we have a test at the end of every term, but the rest of it is up to him.  I do encourage him to get Mandarin, Music, and Physics out of the way so he can focus for math (he does about 5 hours a day), and he and I go for a walk every morning and discuss literature.  But all these are just generalities.  There is NO WAY I could predict how long something will take him, and sometimes he is on a roll and wants to work for 3 hours on an essay, knowing that he will have to double up on physics the next day.  Some weeks he mucks it up and is stuck on Sunday desperately trying to get his mandarin done before class on Monday.  But these are lessons he needs to learn anyway.  I started this approach in 7th grade.

 

For my younger I schedule (with actually times) 3 blocks a day.  9-10:30 seat work (the 3 m's - music, math, mandarin), 10-30-12 independent reading (history and science) and lunch, 12-1:30 seat work (LA - composition, grammar, spelling).  The overall times are pretty much set, but if music goes over, either math or mandarin will be reduced.  If he works super hard on composition for 1.5 hours, there will be no spelling or grammar that day.  I then make sure to put those subjects first in the block on the following day.  This works great for him and me.

 

Ruth in NZ

[TracyP]

Whatever works for others is great, but I love having a schedule. It is not a rigid schedule. It is the (often changing) natural flow of our days. Having approximate times in mind helps to keep me on track. I make a new schedule every year, and I tweak it as needed. I also add more time than I believe is needed into the schedule. It is much easier to move on to the next thing early than to get behind. Only 1 day last year took longer than scheduled.

 

 

[stm4him]

I am using a "block" schedule with 4 blocks per day right now.  The first block is math, the second block is language (spelling, grammar, and Latin or other languages), the third block is writing (including drawing and mapwork), and the fourth block is reading.  Right now math is done in the morning the second and third blocks are done in the afternoon, and the fourth is done after dinner.  In between blocks we listen to memory work songs.  We are having VBS this week so I am not doing our family devotional this week, but usually we do that in the morning before math.  However, right now I'm thinking about attempting to do our devotional before our reading time in the evening.  But we'll have to see if that makes it so they tune out too quickly during read aloud.....

 

 

[stm4him]

I forgot to say that I also have different weekly focuses in the blocks.  Math will stay the same each day, but the other subjects may look like this:

 

Monday- 

Language- SWR quiz/review, Dictation List 3, EEL Sentence 5, Henle Day ?

Writing- Presentations and Final Copies of IEW and LTW Papers

Reading- Literature focus

 

Tuesday-

CC

Reading- How to and holiday books for girls

Boys Choir

 

Wednesday- 

Language- SWR Enrichments Day 1, Dictation List 1, EEL Sentences 1-2, Henle Day ?

Writing- IEW Day 2, LTW Day 2

Reading- Science focus

 

Thursday- 

Language- SWR Enrichments Day 2, Dictation List 2, EEL Sentences 3-4, Henle Day ?

Writing- IEW Day 3, LTW Day 3

Reading- How to and holiday books for boys

Girls choir

 

Friday-

Lessons or Co-op or Math or free time (TBD)

SWR lesson

Reading- History focus

 

Saturday-

Language- Latin, Greek, Logic (mostly catch up w/ Challenge kid, Building Thinking Skills, SongSchool, & HA or LNST w/ younger kids who can read as time allows....done mostly independently)

Writing- none unless behind

Reading- Biography focus

 

Sunday- Church, AWANA & children's choir or youth group

 

 

[thessa516]

Well, I was going to tell you about this great blog post I just read last night, and then I realized it was you posting.  :lol:  Yep, like you, I think I've tried it all.

 

 

Having a strict hourly schedule helped us one year when my older two were in mid-elementary and had a serious dawdling problem. I gave them more time than they needed to complete each subject, and whatever they didn't complete because they were goofing off was put off until the end of the day when they normally had free time. They learned that my time was valuable, and they could squander their own personal time but they were not permitted to squander mine. The problem pretty much resolved itself, and I no longer have to schedule our days out like that...now that I am teaching three kids, the natural consequence of wasting time is having to wait for me to finish up with another child before I can work with them if they aren't ready for me when I am available to work with them.

My older two are in mid-elementary and have hit the dawdling problem. For that reason alone, I'm taking our routines and transferring them to a time-based schedule. I hope I'm as successful as you have been!

 

 

Which is a total 180 from what I used to do ... scheduling what page what day and for a specific amount of time....UGH, it was a time and energy waster for me.  I found that I spent way too much time constantly tweaking my schedule.  If something came up during the day that caused us to get off schedule I'd have to tweak the schedule, if we ended up taking an impromptu day off I'd have to tweak the schedule, if someone ended up taking longer on a concept than I had anticipated I'd have to tweak the schedule....it was a never ending endeavor to keep the schedule current.  We were ruled by that schedule and it caused us to become box checkers. It created an atmosphere of "doing what's on the schedule" instead of educating ourselves.  

Oh yes, BTDT. Tweak, tweak, tweak, time wasted. I had a beautiful yearly plan. Then my 10 year old had problems with division. And then we were off my beautiful schedule. Panic ensued on my part. I had become a box checker. I remembered I am teaching a child, not teaching math. 

 

 

So my plan this year? A daily, time-based schedule that is based on our routines (and allowing for flexibility - your 80% example). My yearly plan will be to complete 30 days of school every two months. If we miss a day, that's okay because we should have plenty of time to get our 30 days in. My goal is to NOT plan on completing math (but if it happens - great!). I will teach my child. If we need to slow down and work extra on division, then I will do that and not get myself into a tizzy about being off schedule. Was it Sarah's RAR podcast where she mentioned she plans to be diligent not rigorous? Yep - that's what I want. Diligence. Slow and steady. No box-checking, but rather true learning.

 

P.S. I'm super excited about Schole Sisters!

[J-rap]

We didn't do schedules, except for the starting time.  We always started at 9:00 with school, and they knew they each had one job to do before school started.  (I would choose a different one every day for each of them, depending on what needed to be done.)  After that, they would get to choose their order of subjects if done independently, and they would just work on it until it was done.  If it was something we were doing together, then I'd usually set a time.  ("At 1:00 today we're going to watch the next Videotext Algebra," or something like that.)   The first 15 minutes of school we all sat together and began the day together. 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Define schedule. ;)   I would define starting school at Xam and ending at Ypm, but allowing the student to pick what is done and in what order, as a schedule. It doesn't seem others are defining it that way, though.

 

No schedule, to me, means the child gets up whenever and does whatever with no times attached to anything. (Not to meals, not to anything.)

[momee]

I agree...define schedule :)

But here's a funny.  When I read the topic title here was my first response...

 

[Korrale]

We have segments... Or chunks. I guess we school all day long.... But a huge chunk of that time is free play. We aren't over by a certain time of the day. I try and be consistent with meals at a certain time. There are snacks in between as needed.

 

Breakfast @ 9am,

Then mornings are for independent reading and other interested study. He usually does some science or social study reading, or watch a related show or do a related app. All between free play. I am not a morning person, my son is, so this works. Some mornings we have play dates. Sites days he just builds Legos or snap circuits all morning. It is all pretty informal.

 

Lunch @ noon.

30 minutes: Exercise, being active, karate practice

30 minutes: Math and Language arts. A lesson for each takes about 10-15 minutes right now.

Nap or it will be quiet time when he phases this out. This is about 1:30pm to 3 or 4pm.

 

Dinner @ 6pm.

30-60 minutes: Being active, karate, walk or run.

60 minutes: Music, and then anything I think he needs to work on. It could be extra math or spelling practice. It could be cutting and pasting skills.

Reading for pleasure.

Bedtime ideally @ 10-11pm.

[momee]

We tried workboxes.  We tried weekly folders.  We tried MOTH and MOTSchools.

 

Lies.  Lies.

 

:)

 

We're now with MP and a list of what to do for the day.  As long as my dawdler finishes all of her work by a set time and to my satisfaction (she knows what that means) we're good.  They destroy my pretty schedules.  I burn out on the pretty workboxes filled with trinkets.

Here's the list.  Do the work.  Put it away.

That's our scientific method after 12 years of schooling.

 

Best wishes to you in the struggle.  BTDT.  Hope this helps you laugh at least.