No Beast Academy for us

[My3girls]

So my 8 year old has about reached the point where she is going to pass up my 9 year old in math. My 9 year old has auditory processing and working memory issues so this was expected. She learns but just at her own pace. I thought I would give them both the Beast Academy placement test for 3A and just see if either liked it so I could put one on that and keep the other in MM to help reduce any comparisons. Dd9 took the test just fine, but when I graded it and she saw that she missed more than she got right, total melt down. I told her it was no big deal that it was hard just to look at the ones marked wrong and try again. No go. Dd8 had a melt down 1/2 way through and didn't finish.

 

Anyone else experience such dramatic, negative results with this?

[HSMWB]

We have gone through 3A and 3B - my oldest does not really like it, and that is putting it nicely.  I am not sure what to do about her now quite honestly.  We have MM and I think we are going to do that, we also have RS D that we can finish up instead. 

 

She does not like the 'game' 'discovery' part of BA at all.  She does not mind reading the books, but doing the worksheets, ugh, it is like pulling teeth.  I am hoping that my youngest will really like it however, he sits and listens in on the story just for fun.

[IsabelC]

I thought that BA was meant for higher performing students, not average students. I don't have any experience with it, but I have seen the placement tests and I'm pretty sure my kids wouldn't like them. Maybe it's just one of those things that people either love or... don't.

[kiwik]

That is why I really can't justify the expense once postage and currency conversions are taken into account.

[Arcadia]

Dd9 took the test just fine, but when I graded it and she saw that she missed more than she got right, total melt down. Dd8 had a melt down 1/2 way through and didn't finish.

 

My "perfectionist" boy used to meltdown if he couldn't do something regardless of whether it is math, science or language arts. Now he is "calmer" with age. My laid back boy's kid meltdown was very mild and short.

I think most kids gets upset the first time they didn't do as well as they expected even if they do not have perfectionistic tendencies.

Maybe let your 8 year old try free past year questions from Math Kangaroo or MOEMS for math enrichment?

 

Canada's math kangaroo samples link

https://kangaroo.math.ca/index.php?kn_mod=samples

 

MOEM sample link

http://www.moems.org/sample.htm

[MadsandLilysMom]

My oldest is a perfectionist and most things come easily to her. She has progressed through Singapore without any struggles. Even the IP and CWP did not really challenge her, but Beast knocked the wind out of her sails. There were tears of frustration at first, but we continued slowly and now she loves it! I learned not to push it and let her determine when she is done working for the day. Also using Magformers for the geometry, perimeter and area chapters in 3A really helped her.

[wapiti]

I thought I would give them both the Beast Academy placement test for 3A and just see if either liked it

 

FWIW, I wouldn't consider a placement test to be an indication of whether or not a student will like learning from a program - tests and lessons are not the same thing.  Consider trying the sample lessons and corresponding workbook pages (I don't know whether those sample lessons involve prerequisite knowledge, but definitely take a look).

 

For many kids, patience for problem solving is an acquired skill, gained over a long period of time and experience, though that aspect could be a topic for a whole 'nother thread.

[Tress]

I agree with Wapiti that a placement test isn't useful in determining if a child will like learning from a certain curriculum.

I do understand that not every child will like Beast Academy and I wouldn't put a struggling student in it.

 

However if perfectionism is an issue I would recommend working on that (not necessarily with Beast, but with other things you can think of). I seriously regret not adressing it earlier with my dd10, we now have daily drama....I mean DRAMA :banghead: because I'm no longer tolerating her avoiding anything that takes more than 2 seconds of thinking. Sigh.

[OneStepAtATime]

OP I am really sorry your kids melted down.  I realize that is very frustrating and disappointing for you.  These books aren't cheap and I can understand your hesitation to try ordering if the placement test did not go well.  This approach is unusual and can be quite challenging, too.

 

FWIW, though, I have two kids who are a bit behind in math but have gotten really tired of boring computational math.  I did not give them the placement test.  I just ordered the first book and we do it together (alongside other math sources).  It really helps their conceptual understanding of math, and we all enjoy the lessons.  The approach is wonderful and it really ups the ante on understanding math, not just doing math, IYKWIM,  But again, we do it together.  They are reaping the benefits without being overwhelmed when we hit areas where they cannot do it without a bit of scaffolding.

 

As I said, this material can be extremely challenging, though.  Unless your child is really strong in math or you are willing to work with them closely, it may not be a very good choice.  I agree with others, though, just giving a placement test isn't actually a good way to determine if they will like learning with this program.  Placement testing material and the actual teaching material are not the same and honestly, IMHO, the teaching materials are terrific.

 

Best wishes.

[Stef03]

We tried Beast Academy right after finishing MM2 and found that he wasn't ready for it. We ended up doing MM3 first then tried Beast Academy again and it went much smoother and still challenged him.

[deerforest]

We didn't do the placement test at all. DD is also a perfectionist, but she has actually learned a lot from working with BA. I told her it was a challenging math program that I chose because she didn't like the others. Heck, I even need to check things in the answers sometimes to help guide her. There were many lessons that she figured things out before I did. It has really had an interesting and unsuspected impact on her perfectionist tendencies.

[Farrar]

Just seconding all this good advice.

 

The BA placement tests don't look much like BA (except in the formatting and design).  Liking or disliking them probably isn't a good indication of whether a kid will like or dislike the program.

 

It sounds like a lot of the issue was perfectionism or test anxiety, not math ability or lack thereof.  My ds who adores Beast is also my anxious kid with perfectionist tendencies.  If I had judged his future use of Beast by his performance on any test I never would have let him try the program.

 

That doesn't mean that Beast is right for you guys.  I have two kids - one loves it and one did not do well with it at all.  I posted in this thread about what I think it works well for and what I don't.  Basically, I think to like Beast you have to be gifted at math, interested in math, or able to deal with or enjoy overcoming frustration. Thriving with the discovery approach is key to Beast.  I think some kids who are less "mathy" do and some kids that are more mathy do.

[Tress]

:iagree:

 

Dd6 is a perfectionist. The last thing I want is for her to become a "fragile thoroughbred", which I can see easily happening in a homeschool environment. We started Sequential Spelling specifically because it's a daily dose of the thought that mistakes are an opportunity to learn. At first, it was impossible for her to think of making a mistake and we had a lot of meltdowns. We have been sticking with it and it's been getting better.

 

If I may suggest, Coursera has a Character Education course that has given me some words and phrases to use that are helping me change the way she views challenge. Just about every subject comes easy for her, except math and I'm just tired of her shutting down every time she makes a mistake. It also gives you a peek into how the discovery method for math works in the classroom.

Thanks, Jen, for mentioning that course! I'm definitely going to watch the lectures. I'm very growth minded myself, I have always been careful to praise hard work and not results, I have always tried to give her enough challenge....and still that was probably not enough. I thought we were making progress after months of :banghead:, but last week was very rough :(

[My3girls]

Just to clarify, I normally do not allow meltdowns or giving up. I usually don't have to deal with them at all which is why this was so dramatic. I gave the placement test to see if either of them was ready for 3A. I guess I misspoke when I said to see if they liked it. You're right a test won't show that. I'm torn now after reading your responses on whether to do it with one of them or wait a year and then try or just to skip it all together.

 

Dd12 took the AoPS prealgebra pretest and aced it. Is it a good indicator of ability to be successful in that program?

[crazyforlatin]

Passing AOPS pretest means you may have the foundation to begin prealgebra. AOPS Pre-A is just like Beast Academy but much harder. You can never know until you try.

[momacacia]

We started 3A before getting into RS D but I look at it as "play with your brain math." I'd hoped it would be I depends and some is, but the harder questions we definitely do together. And the point is to mess with it. Sometimes I look at the answers and guide our discussions so she finds the right answer with my questions (because I couldn't figure out the question/answer--I know! ;)). It's Socratic Math! Lol

[Julie of KY]

Dd12 took the AoPS prealgebra pretest and aced it. Is it a good indicator of ability to be successful in that program?

Passing the prealgebra pretest should mean that your student will be able to do the material in prealgebra. It does not mean that AoPS is a good fit (though I've used it successfully with several students I tutor). I would warn you that people seem to struggle the most with the first three chapters of prealgebra and then settle down into a rhythm that works well.

[Crimson Wife]

DS gets frustrated by some of the problems BA but at the same time, he likes BA overall much better than Singapore. It's definitely a love/hate relationship.

 

Now that he's finished 3A, 3B and about half each of 3C & 3D (I skip him around in BA because I'm using it to review the topics introduced via Singapore and don't want to do them too close in succession), he's gotten a lot better in terms of not having meltdowns when he gets frustrated by the BA problems.

[Papillon Mom]

I didn't have dd8 do the pretest. She had finished Rod and Staff 3 and Horizons 3 before we started Beast 3. We are doing it as a supplement to Horizons 4, over the summer along with a slightly less-full school day.

Beast is difficult. I work her through many of the problems. My dd has average math skills. She needs a lot of hand holding with this program. There is frustration and there have been some meltdowns but overall, she enjoys it. We spend a lot of time on it. I often make up similar problems and help her work through them so she can gain confidence and experience and then she can do the workbook but I often help her there too. This is the only way the program could work with her. She needs lots of hand holding and extra help. I look at it as experience at solving difficult problems. Experience, experience, experience!!! When she gets to a higher math level, where a similar problem is being asked. She won't be starting from scratch. There will be a part of her brain, ready for the challenge, or at least more ready than it might have been.

But, she is an only. I don't think I'd be able to spend this much time if I had more kids.

[boscopup]

My perfectionist kids have learned NOT to melt down at hard problems because of using Beast Academy/AoPS. What I do is ease them into it, hold their hand, work WITH them, and also let them know that *I'm* having to really think about these problems too. ;) I have also explained to my oldest (using AoPS Prealgebra) that the authors of the book purposely made it hard enough that *everyone* misses problems, and that they believe if you get all the problems right, you're in the wrong book. That helped my son to know that. Those first couple chapters of Prealgebra required a lot of hand holding. Chapters 3-5 were completely independent. This is a kid that used to melt down in tears if he didn't immediately know the answer to a problem. Now he can look at it, try something, look at it again, try something else, etc. Now if it's ridiculously hard, he might still melt down, but that's pretty rare now.

 

Even my anxious middle kid who melts down at the drop of a hat has learned to not freak out at BA problems. Again, I hold his hand, and I give him hints if I need to (via Socratic questioning). We're taking BA at about half pace. We did 3A and most of 3B last school year. We'll finish up 3B and do 3C this year, and maybe get into 3D. We'll see. He does CLE Math as his main math, so he has "easy math" and "hard math" each day. I don't want it to be hard math all the time. Likewise, my oldest does CLE Math each day, 5th grade level (so completely review and very easy) just to practice those basics and have some easy math that makes him confident in his abilities. A lesson only takes him 10-15 minutes, tops. Then he spends 30-45 minutes on AoPS Prealgebra later in the day.