S/O iz this pushy?

[La Texican]

This is a s/o from a conversation that started in the confessions thread about skipping some of the elementary school products and buying middle and highschool level books for young children, and if that is called "pushing" them, if they're not leading, or have not completed copious loads of elementary books first. Some of the products I mention are for elementary school and some are for highschool. I think my point is drawing from reputable authors who have something great to teach and not worrying about ages, grades, or how long it takes, but worrying about educational goals and how to provide for your child. I think using all the supplemental and tangental educational products for each grade level is awesome, and if my kid wanted to spend more time studying, or if I required more hours in the school day I would do that in a heartbeat. This an opinion thread, not a jawm thread, and I am at the beginning of educating my first child. The post ended up being way too long for the confessions thread, and honestly probably too long for even its own thread. I noticed that it's muddled and rambles all over the place. I cleaned it up the best I could without taking all day revising it. I'm posting in a couple of sections to make it a little easier on the eyes.

 

 

It's tough, and everybody's got their own opinion on that.

I have willing and capable learners, but not the kind that drag me along. I think how I can serve them best is by giving them a no frills solid education. I've never done this before, but no one else has my kids to raise. I did buy Beast Academy because of AOPS solid reputation, I did not buy Life of Fred because it's main attraction is helping kids who don't like math. This is probably very silly of me, but I bought a used algebra book yesterday. I spent all day rereading some Jacobs, Lial, Forresters, Dolciani threads, and amazon reviews. I bought Dolciani 1975 because "My baby deserves the best." And by best, I mean most thorough.

Now it's my job to teach him well enough that it's accessable.

 

 

The amazon reviews were by math majors who said"this book was written by a mathmatician who died in 1985 who was so good they use some of her work in later editions just to put her name on it. If your child has a math talent, this is the book you need."

 

I don't know when he'll start it, in two years or ten years. I won't know until I look at it, or how many years it will take him to finish the book. I know he needs the best I can get and the best we can do and I think this book will show me where he should be when we call arithmatic finished and algebra started. I bought The Complete Writer because it was written by a college composition professor homeschooler who was homeschooled. I trust these books. I know that a lot of schoolbooks are written by teachers who only worry about milestones and gaps. I know MCT has a love of grammer and teaches to young children, but I know that Analytical grammer lays it all out in front of you. They both will enhance your reading and composition. Reading tougher books from understanding better grammer will build your vocabulary words. WWE, WWS, and AG togeather are cheaper than MCT and get you in the trenches of composition and reading literature faster. I'm not saying it's better, just saying why I might consider a dry highschool grammer book over the juicy MCT series.

[La Texican]

I'm looking at Analytical Grammer instead of MCT Town, because it says it teaches the student grammer once and completely so they never have to learn it again. 

 

We haven't started content subjects yet, because he doesn't want to spend a lot of time learning,  and we use that time for the three R's.  He's technically a kindergartener.  When we start content, I'm thinking about science, he's not going to want to spend years spiraling over the same concepts.  He's going to want to get to playing with the chemistry set and building remote control cars.  I know there are kid kits where they can get their hands on right away.  I've bought some, but how many can you really afford?   And the point of the kid kits is to get kids interested enough to learn the hard stuff.  Wouldn't a solid foundation in the three R's make them just as likely to see their way through studying the hard stuff?   It's not hard to convince somebody the fun parts of science are cool.  It's a little harder to convince them to study the hard parts.  I think the three R's  will see them through the hard parts better than fond memories of kits.  (I still buy kits, but for fun).  Still, if his three R's will be middle or highschool level sooner, he'll have a lot more DIY options.   I bought a subscription to an electronics course instead of a Lego Mindstorm.  I think a solid education will give him more open ended options more quickly.  I don't see it as pushing, I see it as enabling.

 

 

I think he can learn electronics this way, and I'm not convinced it will squash his creativity just by being taught something.  If anything it will allow him to be creative, but with the skills to bring that creation to life.  I think this comes from the belief that little children are more creative when they are younger and lose it as they grow older.  I think people are afraid that giving a young child education meant for older teens will make them grow up faster and lose that creativity sooner; if they give them only childrens materials,  maybe that will nourish their creativity so that it never dies. I personally think the creative adults I know are creative because they have the ability to bring their ideas to life.  The more they can take what's inside their heads and make it work in the real world for everybody to see it, the more time they spend being creative and the more creative they are.  It would follow that when kids grow out of early childhood the more capable they are of bringing their ideas to life, the more likely that creatitivity will survive.  

[La Texican]

 The other view, from what I understand, is that the child's not ready or you're rushing their development or they'll get more out of it if you wait until they're older.  It is probably true.  He'll get more out of algebra if he waits until thirteen to start and he can do it by himself all in one shot.  I think maybe he'll get more out of his childhood and teen years if he knows more math, writing, and reading, and not just in school, in having an idea and being able to do it.   He's not losing anything out of being young by learning more, it's the same amount of time out of his  day either way.   I don't think being taught  will squash his creativity in the long run, and all he cares is that it doesn't take longer out of his day.

 

 

He's willing to learn, but he likes already knowing how more than spending time learning it.  I think it is about the time it takes up from his day, for him.  He likes to have a reason for stuff he does.  He's not a kid who walks around reading a book all day, but he likes to read at bedtime because it makes him sleepy.  I could try to correct this by buying the funnest books to try to get him to love the time spent learning more than liking to have learned it.  I see it as giving him the gift of a useful education that he can do stuff with.  I believe it would be holding him back from the benefit he wants.  I should just go ahead and teach him what he wants to know (not so much what he wants to learn).  I have a vaguely worded goal to light a fire for learning and I would like my kids to be invested in figuring out their own education by sixth grade, the need, the desire, and the goals to be theirs by then.  I think helping him get those things he wants out of his education will support that goal more than convincing him to want something else out of it by trying to make it more fun and games.  He does not want to spend more time even if it is a more fun program and he has wants use out of the stuff he learns.  Maybe I taught him that, or maybe that's how he is.  It's hard to tell, but that is how he is.  He does seem to want to learn new & useful thing, and he doesn't want to spend long on it either.  I don't know if that's his age, learning style, or how I've raised him. 

 

 

This "is this pushing" thread is in response to  a conversation asking if the act of buying highschool books for six year olds would mean a parent is pushy.  I made a long winded reply to show why I personally think it's not pushing, this is not a jawm thread, but it's not the normal validation seeking "is this pushing?" thread.  I'm not insecure either in my choices or other peoples very different ideas.

[8filltheheart]

I'll be honest that I only skimmed parts of your post with my 4 yr old on my lap singing a song from Brave.  

 

But, my 9th grader did AG in 3rd grade.   I can't remember if she finished it then or if she did it in 4th as well.   I do know that she did with my next 2 up.......3 and 5 yrs older than her.   She most definitely understood the concepts as well as both of them and would debate answers with them before we graded.   She thrives in all things language.    But, this same child, while an equally strong math student, has vacillated back and forth between AoPS.   She always decides against it.  So, she sticks with Foersters.   That is following her lead.   Math does not have to be as involved as AoPS to still be solid.  

 

Those are what I see as following their lead.

[wapiti]

I admit I feel pushy sometimes (or perhaps "pull-y"? From my conversations with school personnel, pushy seems to have negative connotations about pushing a kid into something they can't/shouldn't do, while I feel more like I'm trying to pull my kids up to their ability levels in discrete areas).  I have a reason, based on a lack of challenge in my own educational experience; at the time, I had no idea that it could have been different.

 

Naturally, I'm trying to avoid making the same "mistake" that I experienced.  I'll probably just make a different mistake instead, LOL... On the one hand, I think it's important to strive for whatever seems best, and on the other hand, it may not be helpful to expect the perfection of hindsight from ourselves.  Plus, in some subjects, less than perfection may be good enough in the long run, and it is a long run, a marathon.

 

Now it's my job to teach him well enough that it's accessable.

The amazon reviews were by math majors who said"this book was written by a mathmatician who died in 1985 who was so good they use some of her work in later editions just to put her name on it. If your child has a math talent, this is the book you need."

I don't know when he'll start it, in two years or ten years. I won't know until I look at it, or how many years it will take him to finish the book. I know he needs the best I can get and the best we can do and I think this book will show me where he should be when we call arithmatic finished and algebra started.

 

Generally, I like the perspective of seeking to make things accessible.

 

I too like to know what's out there and I have a lot of old and new math books of various levels.  My caution to you is simply to stay flexible, that it's hard to predict very far in advance what you'll want to use for secondary math if you aren't close to completing elementary math yet.  A lot of deciding on the ideal resource includes what your student is like, including but not limited to age and learning preferences. There's also the daily reality of what is most convenient as a practical matter.

 

I have one in the middle of algebra 1 right now, but my perspective on the scope and our schedule for that are a lot more fluid than they used to be or than they might be for a kid doing it closer to the typical age within the usual schedule of a single school year.  It took me a long time to get to this perspective, but I think my kids get more out of something the second time around, in part due to age and in part due to having seen some of it before.  So for ds, he will do what he is capable of in the moment and later we will come back around through for review and more challenge (not that we're skimping on challenge, but he only has so much patience/willingness for that).  There seems to be a difference coming back to a topic a second time, after there has been time to sink in and after there has been practice within the context of more complex/downstream concepts.   (Eta, to 8, along these lines I see the wisdom of your MUS algebra-as-prealgebra approach.)

 

OP, my caution here is not to overlook the considerable depth of resources available at the prealgebra level.  For my ds, for example, I plan to continue to do more at this level.  There's plenty out there to keep things interesting for him for a long time and he can always use more challenging problem solving practice at the prealgebra level even as he simultanously moves forward in algebra and beyond).

[Lilaclady]

For me, pushing will be making the child do something that they don't want to do because the parents wants that thing. Sometimes, I have made my kids do things that they initially do not want to do because I know it will benefit them because I have a broader outlook than they do. I always make sure to explain my reasoning and depending on age, they either get it or they don't. I am wary of preparing so far in advance of my child though because they are so different and unique in their own way.

 

The benefit of homeschooling is to tailor their education to their needs. My first dd did not use beast academy because it wasn't out when she was in that grade but my 2nd dd is using it now. One has to be flexible and also acknowledge that kids- even highly gifted ones, will develop in ways that we cannot reliably predict so we must be open to meeting them where they are.

[Black-eyed Suzan]

My oldest is 7, so take what I say with a proper amount of seasoning.  :tongue_smilie:

 

This is a s/o from a conversation that started in the confessions thread about skipping some of the elementary school products and buying middle and high school level books for young children, and if that is called "pushing" them, if they're not leading, or have not completed copious loads of elementary books first. Some of the products I mention are for elementary school and some are for highschool. I think my point is drawing from reputable authors who have something great to teach and not worrying about ages, grades, or how long it takes, but worrying about educational goals and how to provide for your child. I think using all the supplemental and tangental educational products for each grade level is awesome, and if my kid wanted to spend more time studying, or if I required more hours in the school day I would do that in a heartbeat. 

 

I bought Dolciani 1975 because "My baby deserves the best." And by best, I mean most thorough.
Now it's my job to teach him well enough that it's accessable.


The amazon reviews were by math majors who said"this book was written by a mathmatician who died in 1985 who was so good they use some of her work in later editions just to put her name on it. If your child has a math talent, this is the book you need."

I don't know when he'll start it, in two years or ten years. I won't know until I look at it, or how many years it will take him to finish the book. I know he needs the best I can get and the best we can do and I think this book will show me where he should be when we call arithmatic finished and algebra started. I bought The Complete Writer because it was written by a college composition professor homeschooler who was homeschooled. I trust these books. I know that a lot of schoolbooks are written by teachers who only worry about milestones and gaps. I know MCT has a love of grammer and teaches to young children, but I know that Analytical grammer lays it all out in front of you. They both will enhance your reading and composition. Reading tougher books from understanding better grammer will build your vocabulary words. WWE, WWS, and AG togeather are cheaper than MCT and get you in the trenches of composition and reading literature faster. I'm not saying it's better, just saying why I might consider a dry highschool grammer book over the juicy MCT series.

 

I see what you are doing as educating yourself so you can educate your student. Buying a thorough, well-tested resource. Nothing wrong with that! :001_smile:  Even if you end up using a different algebra book when the time comes.

 

I'm looking at Analytical Grammer instead of MCT Town, because it says it teaches the student grammer once and completely so they never have to learn it again. 

We haven't started content subjects yet, because he doesn't want to spend a lot of time learning,  and we use that time for the three R's.  He's technically a kindergartener.  When we start content, I'm thinking about science, he's not going to want to spend years spiraling over the same concepts.  He's going to want to get to playing with the chemistry set and building remote control cars.  I know there are kid kits where they can get their hands on right away.  I've bought some, but how many can you really afford?   And the point of the kid kits is to get kids interested enough to learn the hard stuff.  Wouldn't a solid foundation in the three R's make them just as likely to see their way through studying the hard stuff?   It's not hard to convince somebody the fun parts of science are cool.  It's a little harder to convince them to study the hard parts.  I think the three R's  will see them through the hard parts better than fond memories of kits.  (I still buy kits, but for fun).  Still, if his three R's will be middle or highschool level sooner, he'll have a lot more DIY options.   I bought a subscription to an electronics course instead of a Lego Mindstorm.  I think a solid education will give him more open ended options more quickly.  I don't see it as pushing, I see it as enabling.


I think he can learn electronics this way, and I'm not convinced it will squash his creativity just by being taught something.  If anything it will allow him to be creative, but with the skills to bring that creation to life.  I think this comes from the belief that little children are more creative when they are younger and lose it as they grow older.  I think people are afraid that giving a young child education meant for older teens will make them grow up faster and lose that creativity sooner; if they give them only childrens materials,  maybe that will nourish their creativity so that it never dies. I personally think the creative adults I know are creative because they have the ability to bring their ideas to life.  The more they can take what's inside their heads and make it work in the real world for everybody to see it, the more time they spend being creative and the more creative they are.  It would follow that when kids grow out of early childhood the more capable they are of bringing their ideas to life, the more likely that creatitivity will survive.  

 

I have a similar view - why buy (insert curriculum with bells and whistles) when (basic curriculum that provides solid information) will do? I've only switched to bells-and-whistles curriculum or less basic approaches when my student did not respond well. (When you are trying to foster a love of reading and your student cries when he sees the book he's supposed to use to teach him to read, you look for other options....) Sometimes you have to get the child interested enough to do the work. 

 

But as I contemplate curriculum for my second child, I find myself gravitating toward the fun options more and more. Maybe it's because I'm bored with early elementary and want to make it more fun for myself? Maybe I see the ease of having someone else insert the fun into basic skills? We'll see what I actually end up buying (I like to take my time deciding these things), but I see why those curricula exist.

 

About creativity, I completely agree that creativity is enhanced by background information.  And I believe SWB talks about this, too, in the WTM - teaching our children the basic skills gives them the ability to educate themselves. I think a teacher's attitude about creativity can encourage or discourage it more than the materials she or he uses.

 

 The other view, from what I understand, is that the child's not ready or you're rushing their development or they'll get more out of it if you wait until they're older.  It is probably true.  He'll get more out of algebra if he waits until thirteen to start and he can do it by himself all in one shot.  I think maybe he'll get more out of his childhood and teen years if he knows more math, writing, and reading, and not just in school, in having an idea and being able to do it.   He's not losing anything out of being young by learning more, it's the same amount of time out of his  day either way.   I don't think being taught  will squash his creativity in the long run, and all he cares is that it doesn't take longer out of his day.


He's willing to learn, but he likes already knowing how more than spending time learning it.  I think it is about the time it takes up from his day, for him.  He likes to have a reason for stuff he does.  He's not a kid who walks around reading a book all day, but he likes to read at bedtime because it makes him sleepy.  I could try to correct this by buying the funnest books to try to get him to love the time spent learning more than liking to have learned it.  I see it as giving him the gift of a useful education that he can do stuff with.  I believe it would be holding him back from the benefit he wants.  I should just go ahead and teach him what he wants to know (not so much what he wants to learn).  I have a vaguely worded goal to light a fire for learning and I would like my kids to be invested in figuring out their own education by sixth grade, the need, the desire, and the goals to be theirs by then.  I think helping him get those things he wants out of his education will support that goal more than convincing him to want something else out of it by trying to make it more fun and games.  He does not want to spend more time even if it is a more fun program and he has wants use out of the stuff he learns.  Maybe I taught him that, or maybe that's how he is.  It's hard to tell, but that is how he is.  He does seem to want to learn new & useful thing, and he doesn't want to spend long on it either.  I don't know if that's his age, learning style, or how I've raised him. 


This "is this pushing" thread is in response to  a conversation asking if the act of buying highschool books for six year olds would mean a parent is pushy.  I made a long winded reply to show why I personally think it's not pushing, this is not a jawm thread, but it's not the normal validation seeking "is this pushing?" thread.  I'm not insecure either in my choices or other peoples very different ideas.

 

My son was like this at 6, but in the past 6 months I've seen him get excited about a topic or a resource and dive into it for a longer period of time. Most subjects he just wants to get over with so he can go on with the activities that interest him. And Charlotte Mason's philosophy fits in with that: short lessons so the child has time to explore.  As long as he continues to learn, that's fine with me. I doubt he's ever going to love spelling - his father still doesn't.  :hat: 
 

I think the key to all of this is the attitude of your student and as 8 wisely puts it, following their lead. That's why I completely agree with Wapiti that the key is to be flexible. I have a certain path in mind, but I've already had to adapt to reality and I'm sure I will continue to. SIGH.  :nopity:

 

[Dmmetler]

What I've found is that my DD, even though she can handle higher content, still really wants a certain percentage of "cute" in her studies. She could easily use all solid high school or college textbooks as far as content goes. But this is the same child who actually, by choice, sat down and colored and did most of the craft suggestions in the SOTW I activity guide (making it impossible to resell it, since she'd started doing so in the book before I noticed it, but given that I bought the AG 5 years ago, I suppose it's had a good run...) when all that was assigned for her AAA class was the map work. She asked for Song School Latin 2 when it came out, even though she was halfway through the 3rd stage of Cambridge because of the "cute animals". She decorates the school room each year with a classroom theme created with cardboard borders and cute cutouts from the teacher's store. She wishes AOPS would come out with Beast Academy for the higher levels because "Don't they know that some of us like our algebra with little monsters?" If they ever come out with a stuffed Lizzie, I'm buying her. We keep stickers on hand, and stock up on cute folders and spiral notebooks at the end of the back to school sales, and DD is currently keeping her field notes for her college science research in a notebook with Lego Star Wars figures on it (and, at that, she's in pretty good company-there seem to be a lot of college kids who make up for all the years they weren't allowed to pick out the fancy notebooks and folders).

 

 

It's one reason why I'm on the fence about ordering MCT. Rationally, I know that there are probably better tools for her than Voyage at this point, since Town didn't teach her much. But she adores MCT, to the point of practically having a fangirl crush on the author. And I think a lot of it is that it's pretty, with relatively few words on the page, but the words that are there actually say something.

 

It's just part of her asynchronous development, I guess.

 

I don't see buying and using high school books with a 6 yr old to be pushy if the 6 yr old hasn't expressed a preference for learning in another way. But my DD definitely has such a preference. She wants high level content, but she wants cute, colorful, and friendly looking books. She loves learning, not because her programs are fun, but because she just does-but she also sees books, and their authors as friends. And she finds it much easier to be friends with Lizzie from Beast Academy than AOPS Pre-Algebra, even though she really enjoys AOPS.

[Uff Da!]

Perhaps the upper level curriculum sometimes pushes mom more than the kid.  The cute fun curriculum here are as much for me as they are for the kids.  It gives me a break.  Part of the reason I am ordering BA this summer is because *I* want to take a break from teaching math.  If the bells and whistles are exciting enough that DD will do the curriculum without me, then I've bought myself time off of teaching and some time to set the table, sip tea or do something else.  She won't hide away with a dry text book at this point.  She just won't.

[texasmama]

When I look at some of the kids on this forum, my 11 year old is not all that accelerated, just two grade levels, so take this in light of that. 

 

I spent some time in essence trying to hold my 11 year old back because I didn't want to "push" him.  In truth, he was leading me, and I was resisting.  It is a relief to have just given in and allowed him to be where he is academically.  We have plenty of factors in our situation which made this more of a struggle, including an older brother with some LD's who had issues with his little brother doing the same grade level curriculum.  It has helped me a lot to keep an open dialog with my 11 year old and let him know that if he "wants to be a 5th grader", that is just fine with me.  He always declines.  He wants to stay accelerated and "move on with my life and go to college at 16".  I think I feared that he would feel I had pushed him in some way. 

 

I have struggled with balancing his emotional maturity with his cognitive maturity in the area of history reading.  He has a deep interest in the Holocaust and WW2.  He is currently reading Schindler's List.  So I watch him closely to make sure he is okay with the content.  He is still a kid, after all.  And he always seems to be okay.  :)

 

I don't know if any of that applies or is helpful, but it's what I have to share.

 

 

[La Texican]

It does help.  It touches on matching the student's personal development with their academic studies.  Since I'm not really into the content areas yet I'm not dealing with emotional maturity issues.  My son has plain regular immaturity and I'm addressing unacceptable behaviour but really not hothousing to resolve his immaturity.  I've been asked why, not in those words, but why I don't teach him to act more mature the same way I'm teaching him academics.  It goes back to what wapti said, I don't want to repeat my parents mistakes, I want to make my own.  

This thread has touched my heart because I don't usually get feedback on my homeschooling.  I read a lot trying to learn what to do, but this is the most feedback constructive feedback I have ever gotten from talking about my homeschooling.  I'm thinking about what I'm being told.  Yes, I plan to teach a few maths simultaneously.  I've already been doing that with arithmatic:  Singapore 2A, mastering the fundementals of math, youtube videos like the turtle double digit multiplication.  He's getting practice remembering not to write his 5s backwards while he's introduced each step of long division or converting fractions.  I skipped steps in handwriting too.  I went from kumon tracing letters to second grade hwt to teach capitalization and punctuation at the same time as letter formation.  Then we jumped into the mct island  

 

and The Complete Writer.  That's why I was considering AG and WWS to maybe be the next step.  

 

When he liked the HOE android app I got the idea that if I bought an algebra book I could tie in some of the lessons with what he's learning from mastering the fundementals of math.  On the fundementals of math he has a notebook (with the avengers on it) and he takes notes on the lesson.  This counts for one of his 3 daily subjects on the days he does it.  There's four discs.  He got up almost to the end of the second disc before he was unable to understand the lesson well enough to pause the movie and work out the problem.  I told him, that's okay, just take your notes, write down phrases that you do understand and think are important, and copy the mathwork that Mr. Sellers does.  (Like composition copywork, in my mind, to show him what the math looks like written correctly.)  It was ratios and proportions.  He wrote the phrase in his notes, "know what your numbers mean."  He kept asking if a ratio is a fraction.  The instructor showed how sometimes you can write a ratio as a fraction, and he showed that you reduce it the same way.

I wrote and drew in his notebook 3 apples and 3 oranges. The ratio is 3 apples :3 oranges.  You can reduce that to 1:1.  There are 3 apples out of six fruits.  The fraction is 3 apples out of 6 pieces of fruit, you can reduce that to 1/3.  

 

 

He didn't understand it.  I'm going to have to google for a youtube video.  I do look for cute, cartoony videos.  This course is just for exposure.  He was able to pause the video and do the cross multiplication to check if the fractions were equal, but if I ask him now I'm sure he can't tell me about it.  I might get "I drew an x" as a vague recall out of him.  But he understood the explination at the time, and we'll get to all this later.  I'm going to look for more info on ratios because he did not understand that at the time.  I kind of plan to use the algebra book in the same way.  I want to show him things from it and see what he understands.  I read the term "scaffolding" means that what a student is able to do with help is what they're almost ready to learn how to do by themselves.  Really, I wrote this post trying to defend buying highschool books for six year olds, but getting responses like this shows me I can ask for help here and not just scour the board relentlessly to learn what I can.  Thanks guys.

[StartingOver]

I don't care what others think, my kids are individuals. PERIOD !

[mathnerd]

I don't think that buying highschool books for a 6 year old is pushy. I own the whole AOPS set and high school level Greek and Latin books (that I bought when DS was 3 and still chewing his books).

 

As for your curriculum choices and reasoning, I can understand and agree. But, it seems like your choices are more teacher intensive and that is something you need to consider. Do you always want to teach to your child? Or do you want to let your child self-learn and come to conclusions on his own on some topics and have the self-discovery experience in learning? Things like LoF, BA and MCT may not be "serious" like high school text books, but I have found that if I let my child loose on them, he tries to read them on his own, imbibe the knowledge using his own thinking process and imagination. Ofcourse, I am around to assist, probe, help and reteach if something is not very clear, but these fun curriculum choices always hand over the reins to the child in our house.

[kiana]

I think one huge difference is if, when buying high school books for your child, you're *stopping* them from reading easy but age-appropriate books that they enjoy. I have seen people telling their kindergarteners "oh, you don't want to read that picture book, you want a chapter book" in bookstores and libraries. It makes me sad. There is nothing wrong with reading age-appropriate books (or lower!) AND intellect-appropriate books.

 

Another difference would be if your child is balking and struggling, but you are continuing to push them because you have a plan for them.

 

Another difference would be if you are putting your child rapidly through the easiest curriculum you can find. For example, I would much rather see an advanced 8 year old doing a challenging and rigorous algebra or geometry course, than plowing through the trigonometry or calculus course from MUS.

[jillian]

Great thread. It was me who brought up the original pushy. Dd is newly 6 but if she had her way would do hands on stuff and dissections and all that kind of thing for school. Makes it hard for content areas because how many map exercises can you do for geography. She looooves geography and I was able to find the salt dough map and color/paint it super effective for geography and then using the immersion method. Math I struggle with because she doesn't like being challenged (i.e. If she can't do it perfect she doesn't wanna) but can do a lot of stuff above 1st grade. I also don't want to kill her love of learning by pushing/pulling too much. It's so much more difficult than I thought it would be. I will be re reading this thread one the lockout we after wee one goes to bed

[La Texican]

Heigh Ho, I read just the free sample introduction to the book you recommended. I think I won't buy it because it's written to help with advocacy and I'm out of the school system completely, at least until my kids mature. But I was energized by reading the intro. It supported what I've seen that teaching a child to their level creates enthusiasm and even a year of suboptimal instruction won't destroy them, but takes away that enthusiasm. I want to compact the core of the three R's. For example, I think grammer helps you get more out of the books you read. I think education is very positive. I want to offer enrichment separetly from the core. Wapti, I like your advice to find prealgebra enrichment. I use a lot of online stuff for enrichment and cuteness or for a lite day. There are plenty of picture books in my house. I understand what you're saying about warmth Heigh Ho. Some days my son asks me to write a check and a star on the problems he got right. I don't grade work, just correct mistakes, but sometimes he likes checks and stars.

[wapiti]

Wapti, I like your advice to find prealgebra enrichment. I use a lot of online stuff for enrichment and cuteness or for a lite day.

 

I want to be clear about what I meant above, because I'm not referring to enrichment as a side activity and definitely not in a lite sense. On the contrary, I'm talking very specifically about hard problem solving that, at some point in time, may be an important prong of a full math education for an especially talented math student, as it may lead to a greater depth of understanding, and may develop problem-solving skills and greater willingness to try problems that at first he doesn't know how to do.  See, e.g., Rusczyk on problem solving

 

There might be an element of asynchronicity in that this sort of problem solving may be less accessible to young elementary students even if they are very advanced in math, e.g., due to maturity, ability to take in the big picture, language skills, etc.  If that turns out to be the case, simply include it later instead.  Even after your student has moved on to algebra, don't miss out on the fun of prealgebra-level problem solving just because it seems his "math level" is "past" that.  There are a lot of resources out there, including but not limited to competition math, AoPS, upper-level SM IP books, BA, etc., with the best choices for the moment depending on what moment it happens to be.

 

Sorry for my droning on; this is really just another version of "don't rush through math without depth" (which I know you are not intending to do as you are interested in choosing your math texts carefully) with the specific schedule wrinkle that you can add the depth as he becomes able, even if that's "later" on a math topic he covered "earlier."  I'm not sure there's much you can do to make the hard problem solving more accessible other than the combination of time and slowly increasing the depth as he becomes able to handle the challenge, to help develop these skills.  That's the fun thing about being accelerated - there's plenty of time flexibility.

[kiana]

Sorry for my droning on; this is really just another version of "don't rush through math without depth" (which I know you are not intending to do as you are interested in choosing your math texts carefully) with the specific schedule wrinkle that you can add the depth as he becomes able, even if that's "later" on a math topic he covered "earlier."  I'm not sure there's much you can do to make the hard problem solving more accessible other than the combination of time and slowly increasing the depth as he becomes able to handle the challenge, to help develop these skills.  That's the fun thing about being accelerated - there's plenty of time flexibility.

 

Yes, absolutely!

 

Especially at the algebra level -- I don't think I'd go as far as trig/calc before backing up for problem-solving -- but teaching basic algebra for a young child who's very competent in arithmetic but still lacks problem-solving abilities can be a very good move, as long as it's not his/her only algebra 1 instruction. There's nothing wrong with doing a 'light' algebra, then some algebra-based enrichment (like number theory or something), then going back for a more rigorous algebra once the problem-solving skills have developed -- or on working on light algebra and serious elementary math problem-solving at the same time.

[quark]

Haven't read the whole thread yet, apologies! You have received some great opinions. I will just add what we've done.

 

I started introducing high school level math a little later than you have but I did have books (alg and geo level at the time) available if kiddo was interested to pick them up. I don't see anything wrong in your reasons at all. In fact I wish more people were open to their kids learning out of lock step methods (as long as it's for kid-friendly reasons).

 

He wasn't interested in textbooks at the time (not cute or funny enough!) but he was interested in the concepts for much earlier than age 8. My DH doesn't believe in waiting for prerequisites. He introduces concepts when the kid asks for them and he has an ability to teach that I really wish I had. He can pull examples, really relevant examples, from out of thin air and present it to a young, interested/ enthusiastic kid in a way that makes sense and helps the kid to make clear connections. DH doesn't overthink these things. Introduce a textbook to a 5 year old? He'll say why not if the kid is interested. Others might lose sleep over the matter. :)

 

We had the books as back up for any details DH might have missed or for the possibility that DS might want to read for himself but at ages 6-7 up to about 8-ish he preferred hearing it from us vs reading or self teaching from textbooks. Whenever DH traveled for business (which he does very often), and DS asked questions, I could consult the textbooks for terminology and such (I learned math in my second language in my K-12 years while English is my first...I used to trip up on some of the English terminology). Kiddo did enjoy living math style books and logic puzzles a lot and self taught plenty from those. Problem solving wasn't an issue here because kiddo did problem solving for fun in his free time.

 

I have mentioned many times before that we do math in different strands. One of those strands was allowing kiddo to pursue higher level concepts in his own time and with me or DH to provide scaffolding as needed. Multiple strands of math in a day allowed us to address holes, problem solving, living math, math puzzles, biographies, videos and anything else mathy that DS liked. We made a conscious decision to spend more time on math not to mold him into a mini math major but because we had both experienced horrendous teaching methods in our younger years and DH was sick of seeing the same meh methods of teaching everywhere we've lived while I didn't want my own love/hate/fearful feelings about math to be absorbed consciously or unconsciously. I could see at one point that DS was starting to dislike math so I really, really wanted to avoid the dislike. It's so much easier to teach when a kid loves a subject after all. The fact that he plans to major in it (that's what he tells us now) was not expected or even desired or encouraged at that time. We just went with his love for it. We also noticed that the more math (mostly problem solving) that kiddo did the easier other learning needs became.

 

To me pushing is when the kiddo flat out doesn't want something. Whether or not to continue to push will depend on the situation. It's especially hard to differentiate between being pushed and accepting being taught when a kid is generally easy going in temperament. So far kiddo tells us if he doesn't want to do something and we assess accordingly (e.g. he complains about being asked to exercise and we don't let him out of that for obvious reasons). If you keep open lines of communication I think there is lower risk of negative pushing. But being pulled along can also be exhausting and sometimes I've had to push him to do something else (who don't you go write something for once?) just so I can have time to breathe and re-assess.  We are generally relaxed homeschoolers who are mostly following a child-led path with some structure when needed and to me personally, asking him to write can feel like I am pushing him.

 

He didn't understand it.  I'm going to have to google for a youtube video.  I do look for cute, cartoony videos.  This course is just for exposure.  He was able to pause the video and do the cross multiplication to check if the fractions were equal, but if I ask him now I'm sure he can't tell me about it.  I might get "I drew an x" as a vague recall out of him.  But he understood the explination at the time, and we'll get to all this later.  I'm going to look for more info on ratios because he did not understand that at the time.  I kind of plan to use the algebra book in the same way.  I want to show him things from it and see what he understands.  I read the term "scaffolding" means that what a student is able to do with help is what they're almost ready to learn how to do by themselves.  Really, I wrote this post trying to defend buying highschool books for six year olds, but getting responses like this shows me I can ask for help here and not just scour the board relentlessly to learn what I can.  Thanks guys.

 

Like I said, I haven't read every single post yet but this part stood out to me. Videos help but sometimes it also helps to just leave the concept written out in an obvious place and have the kid make his own connections.

 

When we were working on improper fractions, kiddo hit a wall converting them to mixed fractions. We tried different things like manipulatives and videos but I also wanted to see how he would handle random fractions, not just examples in videos and books. I left about 5 or 6 fractions both in improper form and mixed form written out on our wall mounted whiteboard and asking him to just peek at them daily for a few seconds to minutes to see if he could find a pattern. In the meanwhile we just moved on to something else in math. One day he just got it. I found his scribblings on the whiteboard explaining why an improper fraction converts to said mixed fraction. It was probably his first "mini proof". :)

 

Once it sticks (and give them time to discover it for themselves if possible) it sticks. You probably won't have to reteach it.

 

Another benefit of doing math in different strands is that you can review a previously learned area the next year or month or whatever without having to stop what you are doing in another area or from moving on. Kiddo was working on AoPS intro to alg (the first half of the book) while learning geometry and it gave him a very solid review of the algebra 1 he had learned previously with Dolciani (a 1990s edition). Then he did some harder geometry for a short while when he was just starting algebra 2. He told me yesterday that he is going to be applying some of what he learns in abstract algebra with his mentor in his intermediate number theory class. Lovely to see that he realizes these connections. It can take longer than the traditional year to learn each level this way but the results are so worth it and they are young anyway. You know they understand. It's solidly ingrained. You don't have to question yourself that they learned it well.

 

As long as you are not pushing for understanding I think your ideas will work well. Good luck!
 

[La Texican]

This is very much what I want to do.  I want to expose him to new material so that he understands that learning means learning new things.  We have Beast Academy that we do once a month (since he only wants 3 subjects a day)  and he has Highlights Mathmania books that he sometimes selects for his bedtime reading.  I haven't put him in a position to memorize "the answers" just to avoid this mentality.  I help him understand the question a few times and then put it on him to figure out what the question's asking.  

I just showed him multidigit multiplication and he asked, "is 3x5 the same as 5x3" (to figure out how to get the answer with less work).  I said, yes, and it's always the same, so if you memorize it you'll know it next time.  He hasn't gone out of his way to memorize it.  (He's not looking for more work, even if it will save him work later.)

 

 

I absolutely want him to branch out in math.  I have that Arthur C. Benjammin movie from the great courses.  I started to watch it.  It was good, but he said "do your math from left to right so you get a closer guesstimate of the correct answer."  But my kid didn't know numbers larger than 100s (still makes up numbers like hundred thousand million hundred ninety-five because I haven't showed him larger numbers yet).  He needed to learn large numbers, borrowing, carrying, place value before he's ready for Arthur Benjamin.  And I wanted him to learn basic math before he spent time thinking about big numbers.  I was interested in algebra next because it's about operations and manipulating numbers as the next step from where he's at with manipulating numbers.  It's time for him to practice working with fractions and decimals too. 

 

 

 You phrased it wonderfully that it's an asynchronisity schedule wrinkle.  This is why this thread has really warmed my heart.  I feel actually understood.  This was the first year I really taught him math.  He went to pre-k last year at school, and before that I taught him reading and copying letters.  Last year I gave him a daily word problem, and before that I only taught him basically how to count to 100.  I thought reading and writing would help him in school.  This is really just the beginning.  He's starting to try to the math in his head with the stuff he's learned well.  He just used his finger to point to the borrowing and the digits in subtraction to answer it without writing the steps, holding the work in his head (his idea).  I understand the need to write work out.  We use graph paper so he learns work needs to be written and readable, but trying to work in his head is a new stage of development.

It's his first year in math and he can do multi-digit multiplication on paper, borrowing, carrying, just tons of stuff.  I feel like I need to keep him going, but without a lot of work.

 

 

I'm looking at what I wrote, and I was wrong.  It's not what I meant.  I got my thoughts mixed up while typing.  I was thanking you for recommending prealgebra enrichment in one sentence.  In the other sentence I was talking about the other concern addressed in this thread, cute kid stuff, time to do stuff at their age level, not their education level.  That was poor writing on my part.  The online part I had in mind was a program I just bought called CTC math (which I would have asked for a refund for, but it's fine for teaching my 3 yr. old adding and take-aways.)  I was thinking about letting ds do CTC math some days for school as a cute, age thing not academic thing.  It goes with the part about having a lo of picture books.  And I mixed that up with looking for cute youtube videos for enrichment.

I'm sure I'll be here asking for help and advice as these stages progress.  I'll definately ask for help after the responses I have gotten in this thread, so understanding and thoughtful and from people who have already been teaching and know what it takes.

[La Texican]

Quark, you should have told me Dolciani 1990s was just as good (even though I didn't ask) because you would have saved me $5.00. Yes, I'm cheap and buy used. I read several threads from Jane in NC, that's why I sprung the extra $5.

Math is an issue right now because we're focused on the Rs for early elementary. He can already read. I'm throwing him ideas from literary analysis. (What's the difference between these two versions? Or, didn't you just read another book where some kid helped some animal? What was that one?) Writing, well, of course he can learn grammer and composition before he can spell, as long as he's leaning his spelling lessons too. I like your idea about putting a ratio word problem and a fraction word problem on the whiteboard, along with the definitions, and leaving him alone to figure it out. I hadn't thought about that. I did that a lot when he just learned to read and just started word problems. I couldn't find anything good on Youtube. This is a much better plan, just in time too!

I think it must have been some of your posts that encouraged me to go on with separate math strands. It really fits how SWB said to separate writing into different strands at first too. It seems like a good teaching method would work in one subject as well as any other subject.

 

FWIW he flat out doesn't want to do several hours of school a day. I had a few months of misery and meltdowns before I figured that one out. I thought, the school taught you to avoid work, but you have to do work. The State requires 5 certain subjects so you have to do it. I figured out it's not that he doesn't want to do work, he just doesn't want to do it all day. I don't have to teach every subject everyday, just have to teach them "in a bonified manner". We resolved it. He's learning. He even asks for extra work some days. Some days he doesn't want to do it, but he does, and without meltdowns. Yeah, this takes flexibilty and there's a bigger learning curve for this mamma than the student.

[quark]

Quark, you should have told me Dolciani 1990s was just as good (even though I didn't ask) because you would have saved me $5.00. Yes, I'm cheap and buy used. I read several threads from Jane in NC, that's why I sprung the extra $5.

Math is an issue right now because we're focused on the Rs for early elementary. He can already read. I'm throwing him ideas from literary analysis. (What's the difference between these two versions? Or, didn't you just read another book where some kid helped some animal? What was that one?) Writing, well, of course he can learn grammer and composition before he can spell, as long as he's leaning his spelling lessons too. I like your idea about putting a ratio word problem and a fraction word problem on the whiteboard, along with the definitions, and leaving him alone to figure it out. I hadn't thought about that. I did that a lot when he just learned to read and just started word problems. I couldn't find anything good on Youtube. This is a much better plan, just in time too!

I think it must have been some of your posts that encouraged me to go on with separate math strands. It really fits how SWB said to separate writing into different strands at first too. It seems like a good teaching method would work in one subject as well as any other subject.

 

FWIW he flat out doesn't want to do several hours of school a day. I had a few months of misery and meltdowns before I figured that one out. I thought, the school taught you to avoid work, but you have to do work. The State requires 5 certain subjects so you have to do it. I figured out it's not that he doesn't want to do work, he just doesn't want to do it all day. I don't have to teach every subject everyday, just have to teach them "in a bonified manner". We resolved it. He's learning. He even asks for extra work some days. Some days he doesn't want to do it, but he does, and without meltdowns. Yeah, this takes flexibilty and there's a bigger learning curve for this mamma than the student.

 

I didn't say that the 1990s ed is just as good. :p I don't think it is but it was good for DS's needs. We backed it up with AoPS alg 1 portion spread out over about 1.75 years afterwards.

 

I didn't define anything. Just wrote some fractions out on the board for him to peek at with the overarching idea that these are improper fractions and mixed fractions. I wanted him to come up with the patterns and explanations himself.

 

I am not sure how old your child is...apologies if you've already mentioned it. We did only about 2+ hours (in a structured way) when he was 6 and 7-ish. Anything else he did in his free time. The math strands were only about 10-15 minutes long at first. And one of the strands was usually a video or reading a biography and never felt like school. Another strand, reading the living math books was also not structured. Did I understand you correctly that he doesn't enjoy reading? That might be something to encourage first before the lit analysis questions. Just a thought.

 

HTH!

 

[La Texican]

I just meant that I got a book on teaching literary analysis to kids called "how to read literature like a professor for kids" and use the ideas in it to ask questions about what he's reading. (Should have got deconstructing penguins instead). The books includes stuff like looking for symbolism like vampires representing coitus. I just bought it as a guide to start pointing out things to him about storytelling. He's on WWE narrations for school. I'll link to a book report he did lately. That's why I was looking for something else to teach about reading. He's definitely past the spending time learning to read stage (and reading is a required subject). He's fairly firmly into narrations. I just thought I find something to throw in with the mct grammer, wwe comp, and an old speller. And you only need reading and copywork before MCT.

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/503687-book-reports-cross-post/?hl=%2Bbook+%2Breport&do=findComment&comment=5472890

[La Texican]

He's late birthday six year old kindergartener. He likes reading at bedtime, and only occassionally in the daytime. He's not a bookworm. We school 1-2 hrs.a day. The 2 hr. Days are either longer from watching a lesson from a dvd, or on the days where he asks for an extra subject. It's usually a one hour day, and since it's so small he rarely drags his feet. Some days he drags his feet anyway and goes in super slow motion. He still has to do his three subjects. Those days might take a little more than 2 hrs. I watch the clock for two and a half to three hours and put the books away, unfinished, however far he got. Most the time he finishes on those days. He successfully advocated for himself in school and got out of doing any work for several months. This is a tricky issue and I think we found our groove about it. So very glad I read here to treat advanced students to shorter days. It really made a huge difference. His daily work includes one writing lesson, one math lesson, and one of the other 3 required subjects in rotation. Spelling, History, Reading. Those are the required subjects. I have plays to read, and the colored fairy tales books I read aloud, but not as part of the school schedule, a logo programming course, snapcircuits, eeme electronics, gardening, cooking, board games. We school for seven days, then unschool for seven days. He chooses to do work, during unschool week, and sometimes and extra subject on a schoolday.

[La Texican]

I think the sample missed a few things. What I got out of it was how to compact radically....I had already been compacting out the spiral review, and I knew of people who had radically acclerated their children, but reading how to compact multiple lessons into one was helpful to me and my son. I didn't buy the book though, it's available in our public library system, so I was able to borrow.

 

Checks and stars= attaboys They want their accomplishments noticed. I try to think of how the music teachers do it, and make a celebration when a level has been acheived.

Then I will make sure to get that book. Thank you for helping me out and letting me know.

[texasmama]

You will love Deconstructing Penguins.  :)  I'm teaching a co op class on literature analysis using  DP as a model and Figuratively Speaking for terms this year.  We are having a lot of fun.  :)

[La Texican]

Quark, I can't think how I will do that. I was thinking of writing:

fractions/ mixed fractions are like parts of pizza left in pizza boxes

(reminder from the video)

ratios compare two numbers.

(also from the video)

you can reduce either ratios or fractions.

 

If there are 23 apples and 22 oranges would 22&23 be a ratio or a fraction?

If their are 27 bananas and 31 fruits is 27&31 a ratio or a fraction.

 

Quark, could you give me an example of what you would write?

[quark]

He's late birthday six year old kindergartener. He likes reading at bedtime, and only occassionally in the daytime. He's not a bookworm. We school 1-2 hrs.a day. The 2 hr. Days are either longer from watching a lesson from a dvd, or on the days where he asks for an extra subject. It's usually a one hour day, and since it's so small he rarely drags his feet. Some days he drags his feet anyway and goes in super slow motion. He still has to do his three subjects. Those days might take a little more than 2 hrs. I watch the clock for two and a half to three hours and put the books away, unfinished, however far he got. Most the time he finishes on those days. He successfully advocated for himself in school and got out of doing any work for several months. This is a tricky issue and I think we found our groove about it. So very glad I read here to treat advanced students to shorter days. It really made a huge difference. His daily work includes one writing lesson, one math lesson, and one of the other 3 required subjects in rotation. Spelling, History, Reading. Those are the required subjects. I have plays to read, and the colored fairy tales books I read aloud, but not as part of the school schedule, a logo programming course, snapcircuits, eeme electronics, gardening, cooking, board games. We school for seven days, then unschool for seven days. He chooses to do work, during unschool week, and sometimes and extra subject on a schoolday.

 

Lol, how cool that he can advocate for himself so young! And I like that 7 days school, 7 days unschool routine. It's nice to be able to experiment like that during the younger ages. Your routine sounds quite similar to what ours was like with the only difference being different interests and possibly resources too. I just wanted to add that apart from videos/ documentaries, we also used audiobooks which were always well received. Keep having fun!

[quark]

We usually discussed verbally or doodled on the lapboard or used manipulatives. Then, on the wall-mounted whiteboard, I would leave some problems for him to figure out. E.g. 19/3 = 6 1/3, 37/5 = 7 2/5 then maybe box = 9 1/4 to see if he could figure out what to put in the box. Sometimes he could do it but sometimes he couldn't. Then once he saw the pattern, the relationships between denominators, numerators and whole numbers he no longer had issues. He just couldn't see that relationship at first and it only clicked once he figured it out for himself.

 

[La Texican]

When he successfully advocated his way out of work for several months it was at school last year, and I was impressed but it is what lead to homeschooling. I was going to afterschool, but he understandably didn't want to work at home after he was in school all day. Then I found out that he hadn't done any of his work literally for several months at school. The teacher said he could do the work, but he wasn't, and he's fine, he's smart, just give him time. So he was going to school to learn how to get out of work and managed to convince the teacher (or at least she tried to tell me) it was okay. I did not expect a fancy education from the local school, but that set off all the red flags for things I've read about forced underachievement, or learned underachievement. I made a mistake at the beginning of homeschool and tried to make him finish all of his work in all five subjects everyday and we were butting heads, getting nowhere,taking all day and sometimes all night. I found the answer reading threads here and the difference is amazing.

[quark]

Quark, I can't think how I will do that. I was thinking of writing:

fractions/ mixed fractions are like parts of pizza left in pizza boxes

(reminder from the video)

ratios compare two numbers.

(also from the video)

you can reduce either ratios or fractions.

 

If there are 23 apples and 22 oranges would 22&23 be a ratio or a fraction?

If their are 27 bananas and 31 fruits is 27&31 a ratio or a fraction.

 

Quark, could you give me an example of what you would write?

 

I didn't answer your question thoroughly...

 

We touched only briefly on ratios before kiddo taught it to himself in more detail using AoPS. We just focused on fractions first. I would have touched on ratios in detail if he had wanted to but he wanted to move on to decimals after fractions. I was not planning at that time to accelerate to algebra. The acceleration came unplanned and he was not solid on ratios before starting algebra 1 but it was a gap that eventually straightened itself out as he did more math, and especially when he moved on to geometry.

 

What I would have done if introducing fractions and ratios, is to just use the words as if they were a normal part of the discussion. I don't normally quiz kiddo on terminology. The more we just use it as part of the conversation during math, the easier it is for us instead of asking him to identify what it should be called. I'm not saying one way is bad and the other is better...it is just more natural for us to do it this way so for example, I might just say, pointing to the numbers/ pizza slices we've doodled on the board:

 

"This pizza has 6 pepperoni slices and 12 cheese slices so the ratio of pepperoni to cheese is 6 to 12. Can you write it on the board? (6:12) Can you make that simpler? (1:2) What do you think is the ratio of cheese slices to pepperoni slices? (12:6 or 2:1 if he skipped a step) Good! Can you make that simpler? (2:1)"

 

"We just compared one type of pizza slice to another type of pizza slice using ratios. Now, if you ate all the cheese slices, what fraction of the pizza did you eat? (12/18) Can you reduce or simplify that fraction? (2/3) You ate 2/3 of the pizzaaaaaa??!!!".

 

Then we might erupt into a tickle session over kiddo eating all the cheese slices, imaginary pizza though it was. :)

 

ETA: I'm naturally leaving out details and bunny trails that we might launch into...just trying to answer on topic to your question, "could you give me an example of what you would write".

[jennynd]

I wrote and drew in his notebook 3 apples and 3 oranges. The ratio is 3 apples :3 oranges. You can reduce that to 1:1. There are 3 apples out of six fruits. The fraction is 3 apples out of 6 pieces of fruit, you can reduce that to 1/3.

 

 

He didn't understand it. .

 

With both my kids, I founds sometimes they need to sleep on a new concept. If they don't get it after try couple times, go on next chapter, finish next chapter then come back. Most of time, they pick up right away when we circle back. .. Just a thought.

[urthmama]

I think it absolutely depends on the child and on the family situation.  With my oldest DD(7) - I held her back - purposely did NOT put her an academic program prior to kinder - and then held her back a year (red-shirted) her bc she had a summer birthday.  It's what a lot of people do here in my area of So.Cal - so she did developmental kindergarten, and then she did a year of regular kindergarten.

 

Long story short - she afterschooled herself up to a 9th grade reading level by kindergarten - and she constantly craves learning.  Right now (as I am typing this) - she is doing the veritas press self-paced history class - I am sure she'll do 10 lessons tonight and get them all right.  She's just like that.  

 

If something is too hard for her, she will lose interest in it.  But - I make sure to provide her with a wide range of things.  For things like Math and Piano - I do require her to have a disciplined practice.  Otherwise, she would not do it.  I would not say she is gifted in Math - she is five grade levels ahead, but she doesn't like it.  I don't make her do more than I know she can handle - I want her to know Math, and that's that.  

 

In Piano, I would say she is pretty gifted - so I make sure she practices and I constantly give her pieces that are challenging.  I don't give her things that are too hard - but I don't give her things too easy either.

 

So, for me, it's a balance and what the child can handle...

 

For my middle daughter (4) - she is very bright - but I don't push her at all.  She has access to all the resources her older sister has, plus her own at her level.  But she is a different child - and I want her to love learning first and foremost.

 

I guess that's the bottom line for me:  Is this activity going to interfere with my child's love of learning?  With some things - like Math and Piano - it's something we do because I know that once she gets better, she will like it.  It was like that with reading, as well - she did NOT like reading when it was extremely hard for her - but now that she reads at a high level, she has a great love of books.

 

I don't think a child should be forced to be accelerated - but that's very hard to do anyway.  A child will work towards their level based on their motivation and ability - so I don't think there is much to worry about "pushing" - that's my opinion, anyway.

[IsabelC]

Regarding what the OP is doing, it sounds as though you have given these matters plenty of consideration and are following the path you judge to be optimal for your family. You have high expectations but you are also expressing the intention to be responsive and flexible as required. This being the case, you'd be quite right to do this with a certain degree of confidence, knowing that no other parent can understand your child better than you do. 

 

Regarding the whole concept of pushing, well I'm sure it happens sometimes. But I would surmise that a good proportion of the "oh but that's pushy" comments come from parents of less able kids with a simple jealousy problem.  JMO.

[La Texican]

It sounds like you are interested in compacting the arithmetic instruction...you might find Susan Assouline's book "Developing Math Talent" helpful.

I'm skimming through the book and luckily I've hit on almost everything in the essentials for teaching an advanced elementary math student, except statistics and probability. But I haven't done a thing from the enrichment list. It's not what I thought. I have an appointment today, and I'm also much slower at reading books since I had kids, but I will be back looking for advice much sooner than I thought I would. Cool!

[LMD]

. He has two teachers in his life that are positively sunshiney in their day to day life, and experts at what they do...and he wishes the rest of the world had some of that sunshine and expertise.

 

That is like a vision of heaven!  Your son sounds like a wonderful young man.

[LMD]

I don't think that buying highschool books for a 6 year old is pushy. I own the whole AOPS set and high school level Greek and Latin books (that I bought when DS was 3 and still chewing his books).

 

As for your curriculum choices and reasoning, I can understand and agree. But, it seems like your choices are more teacher intensive and that is something you need to consider. Do you always want to teach to your child? Or do you want to let your child self-learn and come to conclusions on his own on some topics and have the self-discovery experience in learning? Things like LoF, BA and MCT may not be "serious" like high school text books, but I have found that if I let my child loose on them, he tries to read them on his own, imbibe the knowledge using his own thinking process and imagination. Ofcourse, I am around to assist, probe, help and reteach if something is not very clear, but these fun curriculum choices always hand over the reins to the child in our house.

 

I agree with this, and the same has happened here.  My DD squirrels away BA and MCT in her room and reads them over and over, I try to bring them out during 'school time' so we can actually go through them together and I can *teach* something, but I LOVE that they are so friendly, warm, accessible that she dives into it.

 

 

La Texican, I also lean towards getting the best I can.  I sort of think, why wouldn't I?  My kids are smart and capable, why wouldn't I try to give them the best resources I can?  But then I actually have to teach it, and we have to have enough hours in the day... I'm also convinced that a *solid math education* doesn't necessarily = finishing the problems in an average levelled book.