School work hours

[Night Elf]

How long is reasonable to expect a senior to do school work each day? I once heard it should be about 1 hour per subject, per day. Does your teen work by the clock, or does he/she do a certain amount of assignments per day, meaning his/her time spent in the class varies each day?

 

My son has only 5 classes and he feels overwhelmed with that. He has Aspergers and has always worked rather slowly. I'm trying to help him increase the time he spends on his classes and it's challenging for him. He thinks one hour per subject per day is too high. I told him I'd ask on the board to give us an idea on how other teens get through their daily work. I don't mean to compare but I really do need help in knowing what is reasonable.

[regentrude]

My 9th grader is required to work 6 hours on academic school work daily. I expect this time to increase to about 8 hours by senior year.

I use one hour per subject per day as a rough estimate of work load; six hours allows for one hour in each of the five core subjects and one extra hour for electives. I do not micromanage how he divides his time. He does not work on each subject each day, and he does not spend neat 1 hour chunks on each subject either. He begins work at 8 and works until noon with short breaks, takes a long lunch break until 1 or 1:30pm, and is finished between 3 and 4pm.

 

For my senior DD, I no longer keep track. She works far longer because her outside classes demand roughly two hours of work outside of class for every hour in class. Taking 3 classes last semester would alone require 27 hours of work, and that does not include the courses at home.

 

Five hours of school work for a high school senior is on the extremely light side, in my opinion. That is what I required in 7th grade.

 

As to the one hour per subject per day rule of thumb: I could see going with less if I had a student who was working much faster than average and could cover a standard textbook in less time (although I personally would want that student to spend the same time and learn more, as opposed to being done earlier with the average material). A typical estimate is that one credit corresponds to 130-160 hours of work, and many planned out curricula are designed to be accomplished in that time. A student who worked more slowly than average would need to spend more time, not less.

[Night Elf]

 

Five hours of school work for a high school senior is on the extremely light side, in my opinion. That is what I required in 7th grade.

 

I agree, but he has never been a full-time student. We knew how long we wanted high school to last and he schools year round, so we didn't feel he needed the added stress of 2 or more classes added to his load.

 

Thank you for the post! I'll share with him when we talk today and make a plan for his days.

[regentrude]

 

Five hours of school work for a high school senior is on the extremely light side, in my opinion. That is what I required in 7th grade.

 

I agree, but he has never been a full-time student. We knew how long we wanted high school to last and he schools year round, so we didn't feel he needed the added stress of 2 or more classes added to his load.

 

I do not understand what you mean by "we knew how long we wanted high school to last", could you explain? (I also know how long I want it to last: four years. But I don't think this is what you mean?)

 

Anyway, it all depends on what your goals are for the student. Please keep in mind that mine plan to attend a 4 year university after high school and thus, high school needs to prepare them for the demands of a full class load of 16 hours, which requires a total of 48 of work per week.

A  student with different goals would obviously have a different high school experience.

[In The Great White North]

I've had both.

 

We have this discussion occasionally.  What dc doesn't seem to understand is that if she were at school, she would be spending 50 minutes per class in class, then an additional 1/2 to 2 hours per class on homework.  (How productive the 50 minutes are is irrelevent - the time is still spent.)

 

Makes the 6 hours sound much easier.

[Cheryl in CA]

How much time my high school students spend on school work varies from student to student.  My requirement is that the work be completed well, and how fast that happens depends upon ability and motivation.  My oldest (now graduated) would take longer than his younger brother who was faster but whose work was always better quality.  I honestly couldn't tell you how many hours my senior spends on school because he scatters it throughout the day and often does reading at night.  He's taking challenging courses (Calculus, Physics, English, Bible, Christian Literature, History, etc) and does his work well so I'm happy :-)  I've always felt that mandating a specific amount of time is not good for study habits because a student who is able to complete his work (and do an excellent job) in less time is penalized (made to do more to fill up the time) but a student who tends towards laziness will do the least amount possible to fill up the time.

 

Regentrude is so right about students with different goals having a different experience!  I would definitely have a different plan and expectations of a child who has Aspergers (or any other issue that makes learning more difficult)! 

[Mom22ns]

My oldest is a Junior and he spends 8+ hours a day on school. He is 2e and school takes longer for him. It isn't uncommon at all for him to spend 10-12 hours on school. I encourage him to take some breaks, exercise, and join in some family time during each day. We almost never ask him to miss any of his outside activities for school. 

 

My 9th grader with no disabilities spends 6-8 hours on school each day, but leans toward the light end of that most days. I expect that to increase as she goes through high school.

 

5 hours a day is very light. If you feel he is carrying enough of a load and is accomplishing enough in those 5 hours - that is terrific. Neither of my kids could get through a typical high school workload (let alone what I ask of them) in 5 hours a day.

[Teachin'Mine]

Beth, what does he want to do when he graduates?   Is he still 17?   If so, have you thought about having this year count as his junior year and giving him an extra year to ramp up his workload?   If he's thinking of any college, to help him work more, and to help him find his own motivation, I'd think about adding in a community college course.   The summer semester is shortened and moves quickly, but if he took just one class and didn't do any of his usual subjects at the same time, it might be a good chance for him to see what work is involved in a college class.  If it goes well, then I'd do one or two classes in the spring and fall as well.   Does he work longer and more quickly on something which really interests him?  if so, then I'd explore career options involving that topic.

[regentrude]

  I've always felt that mandating a specific amount of time is not good for study habits because a student who is able to complete his work (and do an excellent job) in less time is penalized (made to do more to fill up the time) but a student who tends towards laziness will do the least amount possible to fill up the time.

 

See, I interpret this completely the opposite way: a student who works quickly and learns fast gets the opportunity to learn more in the same time, as opposed to being done faster with the standard work. Instead of seeing is as a penalty and "made to do more", I see it as a privilege of receiving a better education.

This is exactly why I demand time on task for my kids and do not allow them to simply complete an average high school curriculum in a fraction of the time it takes the average student.

 

[Cheryl in CA]

See, I interpret this completely the opposite way: a student who works quickly and learns fast gets the opportunity to learn more in the same time, as opposed to being done faster with the standard work. Instead of seeing is as a penalty and "made to do more", I see it as a privilege of receiving a better education.

This is exactly why I demand time on task for my kids and do not allow them to simply complete an average high school curriculum in a fraction of the time it takes the average student.

 

My son does frequently go ahead, not because he has to fill time but because he enjoys it, and I require more than the "average" amount of school work.  Unfortunately, most students will just slow down to meet time requirements so they don't have to do extra, which is what I want to avoid.

 

ETA that my student who is faster will also have more courses (and more challenging courses) because he has more time. 

[Julie in MN]

I'm another one-hour-per credit person, even when I was teaching a dd with aspirin-type traits.

 

That said, the thing is that high school credits are based on two methods: completion of an established body of work, such an an algebra textbook, or completion of a number of hours of work - I've heard of folks using 120 to 180 hours, but to be honest and forthright, I think the amount of work during those hours needs to be at the rate and level of typical high school work.

 

The 6 hour day is pretty standard and pretty do-able, you can tell your son. By comparison, a job at Target requires 8 hours on your feet with virtually no down time besides an unpaid lunch and two 10 minute potty breaks.

 

Doing less than 6 hours won't affect anything except how long it takes to earn credits. Schooling year round might compensate a bit, but usually year-rounders take regular weeks off.

 

One way to help make it work could be to reduce the number of credits you require. Electives are great for the student and for a solid transcript. However, they might not be essential at your school with your student. And if he does well in his 4core areas, and learns how to test well, then I dont think you will be cutting off all his college options. You might also be able to build an elective credit out of something he is doing outside of school hours, maybe something he enjoys.

 

Julie

[Connections]

My 9th grader is required to work 6 hours on academic school work daily. I expect this time to increase to about 8 hours by senior year.

I use one hour per subject per day as a rough estimate of work load; six hours allows for one hour in each of the five core subjects and one extra hour for electives.

 

Regentrude-

 

Just curious. Does the increase by senior year account for more class credits or more time spent on 6 total credits?

 

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

How long is reasonable to expect a senior to do school work each day? I once heard it should be about 1 hour per subject, per day. Does your teen work by the clock, or does he/she do a certain amount of assignments per day, meaning his/her time spent in the class varies each day?

 

My son has only 5 classes and he feels overwhelmed with that. He has Aspergers and has always worked rather slowly. I'm trying to help him increase the time he spends on his classes and it's challenging for him. He thinks one hour per subject per day is too high. I told him I'd ask on the board to give us an idea on how other teens get through their daily work. I don't mean to compare but I really do need help in knowing what is reasonable.

You might consider posting this on the learning challenges board to see if anyone there dealing with this has good suggestions for increasing ability to stay on task longer or complete more work per day, etc. without overwhelming a student with special issues...

[regentrude]

Just curious. Does the increase by senior year account for more class credits or more time spent on 6 total credits?

 

Both. More credits, and one credit also takes more time (not all classes, but some).

We use dual enrollment at the university. A one semester college course earns one high school credit, but the course is also a lot more time consuming than a high school year long course. For example, DD's calc based physics course took easily 220+ hours in a single semester.

[1Togo]

Our high school junior works 8 to 10 hours per day, which includes music practice, and we have been building to this since 8th grade.  Subjects like math, Latin, and science can take 1.5 to 2 hours.  Oldest ds needed this amount of time (often more) to earn the grades he needed to keep his scholarships, so I see these last two years of high school as prep for a college workload.  However, it can be challenging to stay with it at the end of the day.  We've found that the order of subjects makes a huge difference.  Dd gets most of the heavy work done in the morning and then practices music.  Then, she moves on to another heavy subject, a lighter subject, and more music.  Latin, which always takes two hours, has to be split into two work sessions.

 

I've homeschooled special needs, and this type of schedule wasn't possible.  We had to do fewer classes with more time for each class, and we kept the focus on core courses and skills.  We also made sure there was enough time for a part-time job.  Fwiw, a student with challenges may need to begin college with the minimum number of classes required for full-time status.  Also, with all of our children, I've had to make choices about curriculum.  Some courses are rigorous; others are not.  We've used check-the-box materials or worked through materials together if I thought it was best. 

[8filltheheart]

What are his goals? I have written posts to you before about my adult Aspie. I regret the time on academics even though our ds was an A student who did not have difficulty with academics. Your question as presented is meaningless bc your ds's individual goals should be the focus.

 

Fwiw, for a neurotypical, college bound high school student, 7-9 hrs is not unreasonable in my opinion.

[Night Elf]

I do not understand what you mean by "we knew how long we wanted high school to last", could you explain? (I also know how long I want it to last: four years. But I don't think this is what you mean?)

 

Anyway, it all depends on what your goals are for the student. Please keep in mind that mine plan to attend a 4 year university after high school and thus, high school needs to prepare them for the demands of a full class load of 16 hours, which requires a total of 48 of work per week.

A  student with different goals would obviously have a different high school experience.

 

We figured it would take 5 years of high school to earn his diploma because he wouldn't be full-time, doing 7 classes at one time. It was just way more than he could handle. We started out with 2, then added one, and then added one so that his classes staggered their ending dates. He should be finished at age 19. He's currently in 5 of the 7 classes he has left. One will end in March, the other two in May. Then he'll pick up those last two classes. The problem is that it takes him longet than 36 weeks to move through a course. We've been working on college skills, but the one thing that holds him back is writing. He writes well, but has no confidence. He freezes if he has to sit and write anything more than 2 paragraphs. All of his classes include writing, with his Calculus class not having an easy way to enter in work. He has to type out everything and it wears on him.

 

We're thinking of starting him in a 2-year college. He's a straight A student, but I don't know if he'll be accepted into a 4-year. He'll only have 21 credits, which is all his school requires to award him the diploma. But there is a 4-year college with a campus near us that would be ideal. We'll apply there of course. He won't go into it as a full-time student. He'll probaby take 2 classes his first semester so he can acclimate to a classroom environment with a course deadline. He's taking an outside homeschool class with a small homeschool organization and he's doing really well with it. If he does well in his 2 college classes, we'll add a third. Of couse I'm hoping he will be a full-time student. I just know he has to get there gradually.

 

He has not been tested for any sort of learning skills. He's extremely smart and has no problem understanding his classes. It's just his pace is slow. That's what we're trying to work on right now.

[Night Elf]

Beth, what does he want to do when he graduates?   Is he still 17?   If so, have you thought about having this year count as his junior year and giving him an extra year to ramp up his workload?   If he's thinking of any college, to help him work more, and to help him find his own motivation, I'd think about adding in a community college course.   The summer semester is shortened and moves quickly, but if he took just one class and didn't do any of his usual subjects at the same time, it might be a good chance for him to see what work is involved in a college class.  If it goes well, then I'd do one or two classes in the spring and fall as well.   Does he work longer and more quickly on something which really interests him?  if so, then I'd explore career options involving that topic.

 

He has no idea what he would like to do after graduation. He knows we are pushing college and I think he feels he is obligated. We've talked a little about what kinds of jobs he can expect without a college education, so he does understand a higher education is really needed. He is 17 right now. He'll be 18 in July. I've seen him work very well in classes that interested him. He really enjoyed his history classes even though they required a lot of writing, which he hates. He just finished a 5-page research paper for Environmental Science and did it completely on his own and it took him less than a week. I was floored. But he was writing on a topic that he knows about so it said it was easy.

 

I have heard there are tests that help narrow down possible majors based on your interests. Can I find that online or does one have to go to a career counselor for that?

[regentrude]

He has not been tested for any sort of learning skills. He's extremely smart and has no problem understanding his classes. It's just his pace is slow. That's what we're trying to work on right now.

 

If college is in his plans, I would strongly encourage you to inquire at the college about their requirements for testing so they can provide accommodations. If his being slow is a due to a diagnosed disability, he will be able to receive extra time for his exams. Professors are not allowed to simply give one individual student extra time; he must go through the proper channels in the office that deals with students with disabilities for this to happen. Being extremely smart is nice but he will also need to prove his mastery in timed tests in most subjects.

[Night Elf]

What are his goals? I have written posts to you before about my adult Aspie. I regret the time on academics even though our ds was an A student who did not have difficulty with academics. Your question as presented is meaningless bc your ds's individual goals should be the focus.

 

Fwiw, for a neurotypical, college bound high school student, 7-9 hrs is not unreasonable in my opinion.

 

He has no goals at this time. He doesn't even think about college though he knows he is going. I want him to get through one school year before evaluating how it's going because he won't be taking a full-load. I don't know how to help him set goals. When asked, he says he might be interested in computers. My DH is a software support manager with HP and loves his job. He feels ds would be good at that because he has excellent problem solving skills. Ds doesn't understand what different jobs do, so picking a major isn't something that will come easy at first. And of course the first two years, taking a full load each semester, focuses on core classes. He won't even start taking specialized classes until junior year. That may discourage him.

 

[rdj2027]

Night Elf,

 

will you put 5 years of high school on his transcripts or do you plan on writing it up in a 4 year format?  I have the same issue with one of my boys (his processing speed is in the 3rd percentile).  He is taking 3.5 classes this year that are high school level but we are considering this a transition year because we only took him out of PS a year ago and had so many issues to work on before he was able to take on a full high school load.

[Night Elf]

I appreciate the responses. We are working to get to a better place in his required work. He's extremely stressed right now so I'm going to make a few changes to help him. He's following along which is helpful. I just wish I could help more with his classes but his work is over my head most of the time. He just began English 4 and I'm pretty good with Language Arts while he is only so-so. I'll be able to work with him on this one class at least.

[Night Elf]

Night Elf,

 

will you put 5 years of high school on his transcripts or do you plan on writing it up in a 4 year format?  I have the same issue with one of my boys (his processing speed is in the 3rd percentile).  He is taking 3.5 classes this year that are high school level but we are considering this a transition year because we only took him out of PS a year ago and had so many issues to work on before he was able to take on a full high school load.

 

I'm not doing his transcript. He's working in an accredited online school that will send his transcript to colleges that he is applying to. The classes are lumped in subject categories and have the numerical grade and date completed. They do not mention the start date. But if they calculate it, they'll see his first classes were completed 5 years earlier. We're just hoping that won't be a problem. My dd21 was provionally accepted into a state university based on her SAT and transcript and she didn't graduate until she was 19. So there is hope.

[8filltheheart]

He has no goals at this time. He doesn't even think about college though he knows he is going. I want him to get through one school year before evaluating how it's going because he won't be taking a full-load. I don't know how to help him set goals. When asked, he says he might be interested in computers. My DH is a software support manager with HP and loves his job. He feels ds would be good at that because he has excellent problem solving skills. Ds doesn't understand what different jobs do, so picking a major isn't something that will come easy at first. And of course the first two years, taking a full load each semester, focuses on core classes. He won't even start taking specialized classes until junior year. That may discourage him.

 

 

 

I appreciate the responses. We are working to get to a better place in his required work. He's extremely stressed right now so I'm going to make a few changes to help him. He's following along which is helpful. I just wish I could help more with his classes but his work is over my head most of the time. He just began English 4 and I'm pretty good with Language Arts while he is only so-so. I'll be able to work with him on this one class at least.

 

 

He has no idea what he would like to do after graduation. He knows we are pushing college and I think he feels he is obligated. We've talked a little about what kinds of jobs he can expect without a college education, so he does understand a higher education is really needed. He is 17 right now. He'll be 18 in July. I've seen him work very well in classes that interested him. He really enjoyed his history classes even though they required a lot of writing, which he hates. He just finished a 5-page research paper for Environmental Science and did it completely on his own and it took him less than a week. I was floored. But he was writing on a topic that he knows about so it said it was easy.

 

I have heard there are tests that help narrow down possible majors based on your interests. Can I find that online or does one have to go to a career counselor for that?

 

Beth, I don't want to be a downer, but I don't think your plan is going to be successful long term.   Jobs that require a degree are going to require a certain pace.   Will he be able to work independently, undirected, and at the same pace as other people with the same degree?   With exception of companies that specifically hire individuals with disabilities,  employers are not going to be OK with a worker that does not perform at the pace/level as the avg worker.  How will  his stress/anxiety impact his work?   There is a huge picture beyond simply taking classes that needs to be considered. 

 

Also, your having the desire is never going to replace the need for him to have internal motivation.   Ultimately, it is going to have to be his decision.   You cannot make it for them and have it lead to them being successful.

 

I would strongly suggest looking into programs like Western Kentucky's Kelly Autism Program if you are determined for him to attend college b/c at least somewhere like that he would have support from people that would know how to help and direct him and have connections to employers that will be willing to work w/ his strengths and weaknesses b/c the avg employer just isn't.

[Teachin'Mine]

It sounds like you have some good plans, but I agree with Regentrude to get the testing so he can get time accommodations for tests.  If he's interested in environmental science that's a great field!   Some colleges have Associates degrees in this, and that might be a way to start.  He's doing calculus, so math definitely won't be any obstacle in the sciences and he should be able to pursue his bachelors as well.   He must have started high school very young and will be graduating young, so I doubt any colleges would be concerned with his having taken five years.  It sounds like he's very smart and with his problem solving skills should do well.  Has he done any PSAT/SAT/ACT testing?  Some colleges are test optional, but for most this will be a factor.  As an example of an Associates of Science degree in environmental science, here's a link from Columbia College -   http://www.ccis.edu/online/academics/degrees.asp?AENVS

 

Colorado College comes to mind for a program which might work well for him.  The students take only one class at a time for 3.5 weeks and then have four days off and begin the next class.  This allows for lots of field work and trips which wouldn't be possible otherwise.   He might also find this easier than juggling 4 or 5 classes at a time.  They are rather competitive.  Is there anyway you could consider him homeschooled and call him a junior?  Maybe a year of working on testing, speed issues, writing, and taking some college classes, while still classified as a high school student would give him a more substantial transcript and a better chance at being admitted to colleges.  I would also visit the local college and see what their admission requirements are as far as testing and application dates.

 

No idea about career testing, but a community college would provide that once he's enrolled, and you can ask if they'd help ahead of time. 

 

Here's a link for Colorado College if you're interested.  If I remember right, they get good ratings for working with accommodations.

http://www.coloradocollege.edu/academics/dept/environmentalprogram/

and http://www.coloradocollege.edu/academics/resources/

[Night Elf]

Beth, I don't want to be a downer, but I don't think your plan is going to be successful long term.   Jobs that require a degree are going to require a certain pace.   Will he be able to work independently, undirected, and at the same pace as other people with the same degree?   .

 

He does work independently. He asks my DH questions but he does the work on his own and is making stellar grades. DH thinks our son works as well as some of his coworkers at HP. I'm the one who worries the most. DH really thinks our son is doing fine. He does acknowledge there is room for improvement but our son has improved so greatly since he started his high school classes. I call ds a senior because he's in 5 of his last 7 classes. My dd in public school has 7 classes per year, which is where I got it. But honestly, whether he's labelled a junior or senior simply doesn't matter in regards to anything we're doing. He's still working at his own pace and will finish his classes when he finishes them.

 

I know my son needs improvement. I know he's not as good as some of his peers. But we can't force a square peg into a round hole. Somewhere is a college that will take him. He has straight A's and his practice SAT score over 1300. He's taking the SAT in March. Somewhere there is a job for him where he will excel and be a valued employee. I knew some pretty stupid people in college, and many of them had trouble with deadlines. My son wants to do his best. He's willing to try. He's just having a hard time with us having upped his class work load in a short period of time. We doubled the expectations over Christmas break. I think it was too much too fast. That's why I was asking what an average high schooler did. I think he needs to be working one hour in each class. I just think I shouldn't have expected that of all his classes at one time.

 

But I do appreciate your honesty. I just have to believe in my son or we will be in a bad spot. I've already had someone tell me he was going to be living in my basement for the rest of his life. That really ticked me off.

[Trilliums]

How long is reasonable to expect a senior to do school work each day? I once heard it should be about 1 hour per subject, per day. Does your teen work by the clock, or does he/she do a certain amount of assignments per day, meaning his/her time spent in the class varies each day?

 

My son has only 5 classes and he feels overwhelmed with that. He has Aspergers and has always worked rather slowly. I'm trying to help him increase the time he spends on his classes and it's challenging for him. He thinks one hour per subject per day is too high. I told him I'd ask on the board to give us an idea on how other teens get through their daily work. I don't mean to compare but I really do need help in knowing what is reasonable.

 

I think five hours per day is a reasonable goal.  My aspie son has gradually worked up to longer academic work hours in high school but it has required frequent breaks and a general redistribution of how he spent his time.  He needed a lot of down time in between, which for him was reading, listening to audio books and swinging.  Finding an area of strong interest helped him the most.  He now has a clear, long term educational goal and he is plodding along working toward it.

 

[JennW in SoCal]

He does work independently. He asks my DH questions but he does the work on his own and is making stellar grades. DH thinks our son works as well as some of his coworkers at HP. I'm the one who worries the most. DH really thinks our son is doing fine. He does acknowledge there is room for improvement but our son has improved so greatly since he started his high school classes. I call ds a senior because he's in 5 of his last 7 classes. My dd in public school has 7 classes per year, which is where I got it. But honestly, whether he's labelled a junior or senior simply doesn't matter in regards to anything we're doing. He's still working at his own pace and will finish his classes when he finishes them.

 

I know my son needs improvement. I know he's not as good as some of his peers. But we can't force a square peg into a round hole. Somewhere is a college that will take him. He has straight A's and his practice SAT score over 1300. He's taking the SAT in March. Somewhere there is a job for him where he will excel and be a valued employee. I knew some pretty stupid people in college, and many of them had trouble with deadlines. My son wants to do his best. He's willing to try. He's just having a hard time with us having upped his class work load in a short period of time. We doubled the expectations over Christmas break. I think it was too much too fast. That's why I was asking what an average high schooler did. I think he needs to be working one hour in each class. I just think I shouldn't have expected that of all his classes at one time.

 

But I do appreciate your honesty. I just have to believe in my son or we will be in a bad spot. I've already had someone tell me he was going to be living in my basement for the rest of his life. That really ticked me off.

 

Clearly your ds IS doing well.  I hope you re-read what you wrote in the above post and take a deep breath because he will be fine. There is no need to push him to do any more than this just because some kids represented here do 8 hours of advanced academic work a day or have more courses per semester.  College doesn't need to be a full time proposition, either.  Many successful people take 5 or 6 years to get a bachelor's degree by taking only 3 classes a semester.   Most public universities only charge full time tuition starting at 4 classes per semester. 

 

Again, it does not matter what other posters on this board do.  My aspie ds NEVER did 6 or 8 hours of academic work a day during high school.  I was lucky to get 3 hours of pure academics out of him in a day, though to be fair, I never counted how much time it took him to read or write.  He put in long hours of work in his internships, hours that earned him credits on his transcript.   He graduated with a bachelor's degree (from an out-of-the-box university that specializes in his field) with a 3.7 GPA and is now gainfully employed in his dream job.  

 

Perhaps next year your ds can find an internship or part time work to do in addition to his last few classes. It would give him a chance to see what the real world is like, to get an idea of the kind of work he might want to do.  Or perhaps he could start taking a computer programming class or 2 at the community college while finishing his on-line high school course work.  

 

Congratulations to you for getting him this far!  You really do have so much to be proud of in raising and educating him. 

[8filltheheart]

He does work independently. He asks my DH questions but he does the work on his own and is making stellar grades. DH thinks our son works as well as some of his coworkers at HP. I'm the one who worries the most. DH really thinks our son is doing fine. He does acknowledge there is room for improvement but our son has improved so greatly since he started his high school classes. I call ds a senior because he's in 5 of his last 7 classes. My dd in public school has 7 classes per year, which is where I got it. But honestly, whether he's labelled a junior or senior simply doesn't matter in regards to anything we're doing. He's still working at his own pace and will finish his classes when he finishes them.

 

I know my son needs improvement. I know he's not as good as some of his peers. But we can't force a square peg into a round hole. Somewhere is a college that will take him. He has straight A's and his practice SAT score over 1300. He's taking the SAT in March. Somewhere there is a job for him where he will excel and be a valued employee. I knew some pretty stupid people in college, and many of them had trouble with deadlines. My son wants to do his best. He's willing to try. He's just having a hard time with us having upped his class work load in a short period of time. We doubled the expectations over Christmas break. I think it was too much too fast. That's why I was asking what an average high schooler did. I think he needs to be working one hour in each class. I just think I shouldn't have expected that of all his classes at one time.

 

But I do appreciate your honesty. I just have to believe in my son or we will be in a bad spot. I've already had someone tell me he was going to be living in my basement for the rest of his life. That really ticked me off.

 

Goodness, I am not suggesting in the slightest that you don't believe in him.   I also agree that  you should not force a square peg into a round hole.     Your words were that your ds felt obligated to attend college b/c of what you are telling him and that he is stressed by the workload and that he might be discouraged by core class requirements and that he doesn't understand what careers actually require.    That is a lot to cope with.

 

Having a child that thrives like what Jenn is describing and a child with high grades and a high SAT score that thrives in a college environment when they work very slowly, suffer from stress, and don't have internal direction might be synonymous or they might not be.      Every child is different.   My child had no problems with college academics in general, but he most definitely did not thrive, either.     For him, attending college right after high school was forcing him to be a square peg in a round hole.   He is now thinking that in a few years he would like to try again, but for now he is trying to figure out who he is and what he really wants to do.   He is growing up at a much, much different pace than his siblings.    At 18, he wasn't ready to accept the pressure of adulthood choices.  It was too stressful and his anxiety overwhelmed him.   He still isn't ready at 22, but he has grown up quite a bit over the past 4 yrs and now he is starting to try to process some issues like an adult whereas before he really didn't want to accept what being an adult really meant.

 

FWIW, I would not be worried at all about where he is accepted.   With high grades and scores he will most likely be accepted at most universities.    I would be far more concerned about what sort of support/encouragement for success he will have when he gets there.    

I also agree that  you should not force a square peg into a round hole.

 

I think the trick is to help him find the right square hole he fits into, not just for college, but in life beyond.  Many of these kids have great gifts, but have a very difficult time exploring on their own, outside of their current comfort zone, to find something that might be a fantastic, lifelong opportunity for them, and a good match for what they are good at.  Hours spent now on this investigation are probably more valuable for him than anything spent on core academic subjects.

[8filltheheart]

I think the trick is to help him find the right square hole he fits into, not just for college, but in life beyond. Many of these kids have great gifts, but have a very difficult time exploring on their own, outside of their current comfort zone, to find something that might be a fantastic, lifelong opportunity for them, and a good match for what they are good at. Hours spent now on this investigation are probably more valuable for him than anything spent on core academic subjects.

Agreed 1000%.

[saw]

Would it be easier for him to do fewer subjects each day for a longer period each time? So two subjects for two hours each, plus one at one hour? That would reduce the stress of transitioning between subjects. My dds have nine subjects but don't do each every day. A couple of these require a final project rather than an exam and sometimes it's easier for them to spend a couple of hours on these in one go. I've also noticed when they are writing that it's easier to give them a longer time to do that, because otherwise by the time they're really into what they're writing it's time to move on. Also, do you have records of how long a typical assignment takes? DDs write down how long each day's work actually takes and that makes it easier for me to plan their day. Before we got the hang of this I would assign too much for the time allocated, which just made everyone stressed out. 

[Gwen in VA]

If he is not interested in college, would consider having him skip it? I realize that that would require him to think about what he really wants to do, which can be very scary.

 

I always thought bright kids go to college, period. Than I had ds2, who is a ridiculously strong student but hates the academic "teacher teaches, student studies" approach. He wants to do and to learn on his own. He went to a unique hadns-on school and even that was too much academia for him. He dropped out of college and is pursuing his dream, which is a field that thankfully does not require a college degree. I am thrilled about his life!

 

So if your son is not gung-ho about college, I would urge you to read a bit about uncollege. (If you haven't heard the word "uncollege", google it.) People can be really smart and have HIGH career goals yet not want to go through another four years of doing what the teacher says.

[Night Elf]

Would it be easier for him to do fewer subjects each day for a longer period each time? So two subjects for two hours each, plus one at one hour? That would reduce the stress of transitioning between subjects. My dds have nine subjects but don't do each every day. A couple of these require a final project rather than an exam and sometimes it's easier for them to spend a couple of hours on these in one go. I've also noticed when they are writing that it's easier to give them a longer time to do that, because otherwise by the time they're really into what they're writing it's time to move on. Also, do you have records of how long a typical assignment takes? DDs write down how long each day's work actually takes and that makes it easier for me to plan their day. Before we got the hang of this I would assign too much for the time allocated, which just made everyone stressed out. 

 

Sorry I'm getting back to this thread late. I got distracted and forgot I had asked for advice. I did ask my son if he preferred to do a block schedule so that he had more time in each class. He didn't like that idea because he knows he'll be working the same amount of time either way and in subjects he hates, he doesn't want to purposefully spend more time in them at one time than he needs to. There are exceptions though, usually when he's writing a long essay or short paper. He'll lose track of time because he's in the zone, so I just leave him alone. Then I have him skip one class and work on that one the next day.

 

I started the thread because I wasn't sure that allocating one hour per subject was the right thing to do. In two of his classes, we are able to look ahead at the scheduled lessons and figure out what to do each day. On those days, he spends up to one hour working. If he finishes before the hour, he doesn't move ahead in tomorrow's work. If he hits an hour and still isn't finished, he stops and the next day just picks up where he left off. The problem with that is it throws us off his schedule because he needs to begin work on the next lesson and may not have time to complete it all within one hour. This is a huge source of his stress. He used to have short assignments that were always well under one hour. Whether he took 15 mins. or 45 mins, he just worked until the end and then stopped. I'm sorry to sound so complicated.

 

He's currently working on two short research papers and isn't happy that he has to work on them simultaneously. However, I feel he is getting more done by working on each every day. If he focuses on one only, he only writes about 2 paragraphs and feels done. It can take him 2 or 3 days to finish one paper. But having him write two paragraphs in each subject each day makes sure the papers wiil be finished at the same time, rather than double time. I hope that makes sense.

 

Thanks Gwen in VA. I'll look into uncollege. I know my son doesn't want to go but he has no job skills and no dream to pursue. Honestly, he'd be happy to stay with this routine for a while. I'm even considering an online college, but I need to research them to see if I can find a truly reputable one that employers would recognize. i think he should get a part-time job, but the only thing we can think of is a cashier or bag boy at our grocery store. Those jobs are hard to get because they are coveted and there is stiff competition.

 

I appreciate all the replies. They're helping me lay out the problems to try to start finding solutions.

[regentrude]

I started the thread because I wasn't sure that allocating one hour per subject was the right thing to do. In two of his classes, we are able to look ahead at the scheduled lessons and figure out what to do each day. On those days, he spends up to one hour working. If he finishes before the hour, he doesn't move ahead in tomorrow's work. If he hits an hour and still isn't finished, he stops and the next day just picks up where he left off. The problem with that is it throws us off his schedule because he needs to begin work on the next lesson and may not have time to complete it all within one hour. This is a huge source of his stress. He used to have short assignments that were always well under one hour. Whether he took 15 mins. or 45 mins, he just worked until the end and then stopped. I'm sorry to sound so complicated.

 

So what about giving him the freedom to decide what exactly to do in his 5 (or however many) hours of work and ditching the schedule completely? Work on each subject for long how he feels, and then switch - and stop school when the total time has been put in?

That's how we school.  It averages out over the course of a month or semester, but scheduling is no source of stress because schedules do not exist.

 

 

 

He's currently working on two short research papers and isn't happy that he has to work on them simultaneously. However, I feel he is getting more done by working on each every day. If he focuses on one only, he only writes about 2 paragraphs and feels done. It can take him 2 or 3 days to finish one paper. But having him write two paragraphs in each subject each day makes sure the papers wiil be finished at the same time, rather than double time. I hope that makes sense.

 

It does not make sense to me. Why is it important that the papers finish at the same time? Instead of working on paper B, he could study other material in subject B and write the paper B when paper A is finished during the days when he would otherwise have studied the material he has already learned while he was writing paper A. If this is not the way he likes to work, why stress him by insisting on simultaneous papers?  It is not like it takes any longer to write each paper; he may even work faster and more concentrated if he only has one paper on his mind.

Btw, I consider it perfectly normal to taking 2-3 days to finish a high school level paper. Are you expecting a research paper to be knocked out in a single day??

[Night Elf]

It does not make sense to me. Why is it important that the papers finish at the same time? Instead of working on paper B, he could study other material in subject B and write the paper B when paper A is finished during the days when he would otherwise have studied the material he has already learned while he was writing paper A. If this is not the way he likes to work, why stress him by insisting on simultaneous papers?  It is not like it takes any longer to write each paper; he may even work faster and more concentrated if he only has one paper on his mind.

Btw, I consider it perfectly normal to taking 2-3 days to finish a high school level paper. Are you expecting a research paper to be knocked out in a single day??

 

His idea of "enough work" is writing 2 paragraphs even if it only takes him 30 minutes. He'll do 2 paragraphs in each subject if he has too, but he doesn't choose to work on one subject for a long time. Does that make sense? His two papers are short. One is one page long and the other 2 pages long. I am fairly certain it shouldn't take him 3 days to do a 1 page paper. if he takes 3 days to do that one, then 3 or 4 days to do the second one, that is a long time. But he will work in each subject each day and he should be able to work on them at the same time. Also, he is using a traditional online school and has to do the assignments in order. He can't move on to the next thing until he finishes the current assignment, so he has no choice in that.

[8filltheheart]

 

Thanks Gwen in VA. I'll look into uncollege. I know my son doesn't want to go but he has no job skills and no dream to pursue. Honestly, he'd be happy to stay with this routine for a while. I'm even considering an online college, but I need to research them to see if I can find a truly reputable one that employers would recognize. i think he should get a part-time job, but the only thing we can think of is a cashier or bag boy at our grocery store. Those jobs are hard to get because they are coveted and there is stiff competition.

.

When he turns 18, I would recommend contacting the GA Dept of Rehabilitative Services bc he will,qualify for assistance. Depending on your income and GA's laws, he will could qualify for a complete neuropsy exam at the state's expense, job placement evaluations, job placement, job coach, drivers training (our ds is still waiting on this), etc.

 

Our ds qualified for all of the above. He is incredibly intelligent with a high IQ, but he cannot function without constant affirmation and incremental steps to accomplish. He is very happy and secure in an environment that allows for him to work at his pace and perform at his level without any stress. DRS placed him at Goodwill at his request. They had him do on job training in multiple environments (including bagging at a grocery store) and the place he felt the least stress was Goodwill. The managers at Goodwill are used to working with people with disabilities, they affirm him constantly, they love his work ethic. He has developed a great self image as an employee under their care. (They didn't react negatively when he refused to learn to answer the phone. He told them that talking on the phone was too stressful.)