One more reason to add to my "why I homeschool list"

[melmac]

I'm thinking of printing it out and when someone asks why I homeschool I'll just hand it to them, lol...

 

http://www.picayuneitem.com/homepage/local_story_228150605.html

[Gretchen in NJ]

I wonder how many birds they had to kill to get all of those feathers. Hmm?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think most people of a non-classical bent would not understand why you would think that article would be a reason to homeschool. I get it because I can see that most of it is busywork and that my children would have learned much of the "content" such as it was at a much earlier age. But I can guarantee that if I showed that article to my neighbors they would say, "Wow, that is so neat! It is too bad that you don't have your children in a neat learning environment like that!"

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I do think it's neat. It sounds like things I hear about homeschool moms doing with their kids. I'm pretty sure they used the synthetic feathers as they are cheap and readily available.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

I think most people of a non-classical bent would not understand why you would think that article would be a reason to homeschool. I get it because I can see that most of it is busywork and that my children would have learned much of the "content" such as it was at a much earlier age. But I can guarantee that if I showed that article to my neighbors they would say, "Wow, that is so neat! It is too bad that you don't have your children in a neat learning environment like that!"

 

Thank you. I know exactly what you mean.

[Ohio12]

I think most people of a non-classical bent would not understand why you would think that article would be a reason to homeschool. I get it because I can see that most of it is busywork and that my children would have learned much of the "content" such as it was at a much earlier age. But I can guarantee that if I showed that article to my neighbors they would say, "Wow, that is so neat! It is too bad that you don't have your children in a neat learning environment like that!"

 

 

yes, I agree with Jean that people would not necessarily think that is a bad idea. but I do think it sounds kinda dumb and a waste of time and energy.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

I really struggle with things like this.

 

It usually hits me in Sunday school. Everybody is so thrilled with the cute and hands-on project that we're doing, and I'm standing there thinking, "Why?"

 

I couldn't say that the kids are not learning, but I could say that they are 10 years old now and should be learning in depth and without feathers, y'know?

 

I can't ever think of a nice way to say that so I keep my mouth shut. It seems that as long as the children are not staring into space then they must be learning. I think the bar is a little too low.

 

And then I feel like an elitist homeschooling snob for expecting more out of education. Maybe I'm all wet about this. Maybe deeper study is right for my own children but it really isn't right for large groups. I don't know.

[Sharon H in IL]

I really struggle with things like this.

 

It usually hits me in Sunday school. Everybody is so thrilled with the cute and hands-on project that we're doing, and I'm standing there thinking, "Why?"

 

I couldn't say that the kids are not learning, but I could say that they are 10 years old now and should be learning in depth and without feathers, y'know?

 

I can't ever think of a nice way to say that so I keep my mouth shut. It seems that as long as the children are not staring into space then they must be learning. I think the bar is a little too low.

 

And then I feel like an elitist homeschooling snob for expecting more out of education. Maybe I'm all wet about this. Maybe deeper study is right for my own children but it really isn't right for large groups. I don't know.

 

 

 

No, you're right. The bar is too low, fun is taken as an indicator that you're on the right track, and all this should have been learned long before.

 

We elitist homeschooling snobs have to bite our tongues when we're out and about. Because hey, feathers are fun!

[Brindee]

Hmmm.......I've done that with my kids---something sort of "off-the-wall" to put a different spin on learning. It shakes up the brain cells and causes the synapsis to fire at a faster rate and they can see things in a new light yet still learn. (at least that's what I like to think ;) ) I'm not non-classical, but I still don't think it was such a bad thing or wasteful. I think they were working on kids being creative and using something totally out of the ordinary to learn from. I don't think it's dumb or a waste of energy either. I think my kids would have fun---FOR A DAY, using their creativity to do something like that. We actually did that once using popsicle sticks. We made a fort, and walls around the fort (History). We made bridges of different sizes and shapes and checked on how many pennies each could hold (Science). We used them for counting and shapes and fractions (math). We wrote letters on them, then tried to make words amd sentences with them (English and Spelling). The wall and fort did double duty--we read the story of Joshua and the Children of Israel marching around Jericho, and the walls falling down. The kids knocked down the wall that was (now) around "Jericho. That was a VERY fun day! My kids loved the hands-on aspect, the creativity, and talked about what they did and learned to grandparents and others--for a long time!

 

:confused:So, cuz I did something like that, does that make me a poor, dumb, waste-of-time homeschooler who naively says, "That looks like fun!" ??? ;) Just coming from another perspective, so totally not trying to be rude! I feel like I was just put-down because I did that with my kids and we liked it, and I don't see the problem with it!

 

That's one reason why I DO homeschool, so I can do fun stuff that my kids really enjoy, learn from and remember!

[melmac]

Hmmm.......I've done that with my kids---something sort of "off-the-wall" to put a different spin on learning. It shakes up the brain cells and causes the synapsis to fire at a faster rate and they can see things in a new light yet still learn. (at least that's what I like to think ;) ) I'm not non-classical, but I still don't think it was such a bad thing or wasteful. I think they were working on kids being creative and using something totally out of the ordinary to learn from. I don't think it's dumb or a waste of energy either. I think my kids would have fun---FOR A DAY, using their creativity to do something like that. We actually did that once using popsicle sticks. We made a fort, and walls around the fort (History). We made bridges of different sizes and shapes and checked on how many pennies each could hold (Science). We used them for counting and shapes and fractions (math). We wrote letters on them, then tried to make words amd sentences with them (English and Spelling). The wall and fort did double duty--we read the story of Joshua and the Children of Israel marching around Jericho, and the walls falling down. The kids knocked down the wall that was (now) around "Jericho. That was a VERY fun day! My kids loved the hands-on aspect, the creativity, and talked about what they did and learned to grandparents and others--for a long time!

 

:confused:So, cuz I did something like that, does that make me a poor, dumb, waste-of-time homeschooler who naively says, "That looks like fun!" ??? ;) Just coming from another perspective, so totally not trying to be rude! I feel like I was just put-down because I did that with my kids and we liked it, and I don't see the problem with it!

 

That's one reason why I DO homeschool, so I can do fun stuff that my kids really enjoy, learn from and remember!

 

Oh goodness, I don't recall stating anything like what you mention. I have nothing against creativity, but I do think it's silly to have a 4th grader sorting by size, color, and shape (that's just one of many examples from this article that I had a problem with).

 

I read the article to my 10 yo and 7yo sons and the 7 yo laughed, and the 10 yo with an appalled expression blurted out,"That's just insulting, don't they think kids are capable of more than that?".

 

I'm not sure why you're feeling the way you are, but it certainly wasn't my intent to offend anyone by posting this.

[melmac]

I think most people of a non-classical bent would not understand why you would think that article would be a reason to homeschool. I get it because I can see that most of it is busywork and that my children would have learned much of the "content" such as it was at a much earlier age. But I can guarantee that if I showed that article to my neighbors they would say, "Wow, that is so neat! It is too bad that you don't have your children in a neat learning environment like that!"

 

 

My neighbors would, too. They send their kids to this very school.:D

[Melinda in VT]

Well, I'm feeling reckless tonight, so I'll go ahead and say that not only do I think a day like that is probably a fun change of pace and a good learning experience, but projects like that are one of the reasons I have my kids in public school. :D

 

Now, I thought some of the learning activities in the article sounded kind of dumb (using feathers to divide words into syllables?) but others sounded fun and educational (cleaning oil out of water, figuring out why feathers fall more slowly, using feathers as a writing prompt).

 

If every day were like that, I'd have a problem with it. If the kids weren't learning the basics, I'd have a problem with it. But as a break in the routine? I think it's great.

 

I'm just not a crafts-and-projects kind of mom. But my kids like crafts and projects, and they learn a lot from them, so that's one thing I'm happy to have the school do. (I really, really wanted to mummify the chicken . . . but apparently I didn't want it enough to overcome my anti-project personality.)

 

I read SOTW. The school organizes Greek Day. I take the kids to the local sugaring farm and talk about the process. The school has them tap the trees and boil the syrup. I read books about the Pilgrims. The school gives them wood and has them carve trenchers they eat off of while sitting in a teepee.

 

It works for us.

 

:leaving:

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Brindee, I'm just assuming that a craft and feathers day is a supplement to your dc's education and not the pinnacle of it. I think that is the difference. You know your kids and you know when it is time to do something extra that will delight your family and create a good memory.

 

When I see this kind of thing in a school situation, it always seems to be "the" lesson. Whatever the kids can extrapolate from the craft is all they get. It isn't the delicious gravy, it is the anemic meat and overcooked potatoes.

 

Hopefully I'm not digging myself into a bigger hole, here! I'm very sorry I offended you.

[melmac]

It's not the activities I have a problem with, it's the grade levels the activities are being used in. Upper grammar grades doing preschool activities with feathers is silly to me.

 

 

 

Well, I'm feeling reckless tonight, so I'll go ahead and say that not only do I think a day like that is probably a fun change of pace and a good learning experience, but projects like that are one of the reasons I have my kids in public school. :D

 

Now, I thought some of the learning activities in the article sounded kind of dumb (using feathers to divide words into syllables?) but others sounded fun and educational (cleaning oil out of water, figuring out why feathers fall more slowly, using feathers as a writing prompt).

 

If every day were like that, I'd have a problem with it. If the kids weren't learning the basics, I'd have a problem with it. But as a break in the routine? I think it's great.

 

I'm just not a crafts-and-projects kind of mom. But my kids like crafts and projects, and they learn a lot from them, so that's one thing I'm happy to have the school do. (I really, really wanted to mummify the chicken . . . but apparently I didn't want it enough to overcome my anti-project personality.)

 

I read SOTW. The school organizes Greek Day. I take the kids to the local sugaring farm and talk about the process. The school has them tap the trees and boil the syrup. I read books about the Pilgrims. The school gives them wood and has them carve trenchers they eat off of while sitting in a teepee.

 

It works for us.

 

:leaving:

[melmac]

Brindee, I'm just assuming that a craft and feathers day is a supplement to your dc's education and not the pinnacle of it. I think that is the difference. You know your kids and you know when it is time to do something extra that will delight your family and create a good memory.

 

When I see this kind of thing in a school situation, it always seems to be "the" lesson. Whatever the kids can extrapolate from the craft is all they get. It isn't the delicious gravy, it is the anemic meat and overcooked potatoes.

 

Hopefully I'm not digging myself into a bigger hole, here! I'm very sorry I offended you.

 

Exactly, it even stated that in the article, the teachers hoping they would have time to do all that they have planned to do with these feathers, it wasn't a one day thing, it's a long term plan and to read the article the teachers seem to think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[Brindee]

Oh ooops, the way I worded that was wrong. I meant it as more of a--here's how it's coming across, we did that once so am I stupid too? type of thing. NOT a TRUE "Poor me, I feel picked on" thing at all!

 

I can see it, as I said, as a fun, interesting one day guided project thing. But not an end all to wonderful education! Sorry, boy, sometimes when I reread my posts, I think, "What was I thinking to type it like that?" I dunno! :D I personally knew what I meant, I typed and sent. Anyway, onward and forward....Just remember. I AM NOT A WRITER!!! So if you get offended or confused about something I say, please ask me about it or something, so I can explain myself! :lol:

[Melinda in VT]

Exactly, it even stated that in the article, the teachers hoping they would have time to do all that they have planned to do with these feathers, it wasn't a one day thing, it's a long term plan and to read the article the teachers seem to think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

But it was a one-day thing. The teacher was talking about not having enough time in that day to do all the activities.

 

At least, that's what I gathered from the opening two paragraphs of the article (bolding mine):

 

The brain child of a Challenge Program workshop lead to a day of learning and discovery using only feathers.

 

Pearl River County School District Upper Elementary students were treated to a day where feathers were the basis for learning. While instruction was still rooted in the fundamentals of math, science, language and creativity, two traditional learning materials were left out.

[melmac]

But it was a one-day thing. The teacher was talking about not having enough time in that day to do all the activities.

 

At least, that's what I gathered from the opening two paragraphs of the article (bolding mine):

 

The brain child of a Challenge Program workshop lead to a day of learning and discovery using only feathers.

 

Pearl River County School District Upper Elementary students were treated to a day where feathers were the basis for learning. While instruction was still rooted in the fundamentals of math, science, language and creativity, two traditional learning materials were left out.

 

Well, I see that the print version and online version are a bit different.I didn't realize that.My print version starts out stating this was the first of a series of events that the students will be involved in.

 

Anyway, didn't mean to start a big hoopla over this.I didn't mean to offend anyone.

[Melinda in VT]

Well, I see that the print version and online version are a bit different.I didn't realize that.My print version starts out stating this was the first of a series of events that the students will be involved in.

 

Anyway, didn't mean to start a big hoopla over this.I didn't mean to offend anyone.

 

Oops. It's been a crazy day and I'm probably not communicating well. I, for one, am not offended, and I don't think you've created a big hoopla.

 

Just because I think something like this might be a good thing in a school doesn't mean you have to agree. :D

[cin]

Whether it's a day or a week or a month, the activities should be more age appropriate. Having my 4 yr old sort them by color & size would be busy work, as she shocked me last year by doing that with her bears. Having them try to write would be fun, but dividing words into syllables? I'm still confused on that one, and playing with oil and water with the feathers, I'm not sure how the feathers play into that....I guess I could see a science lesson in that. But you could do oil and water without any feathers.

 

Sounds like they had a hoopla at their school though. And what I think is funny, is this is the stuff that homeschoolers do on a weekly basis: Unit studies, fun activities to go along with the drugery of the book work (like was mentioned above: building the wall of Jericho and knocking it down!) And we aren't written up in the paper :glare:

[melmac]

Oops. It's been a crazy day and I'm probably not communicating well. I, for one, am not offended, and I don't think you've created a big hoopla.

 

Just because I think something like this might be a good thing in a school doesn't mean you have to agree. :D

 

Thank you, I think that sums it up quite nicely. :D

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Well, I, for one, am thrilled that none of us are offended! :lol:

 

I have a friend who loves unit studies. She and her children absolutely thrive on them and those kids are educated plenty good. LOL

 

We were so mutually impressed with each others' homeschools that we sat down to discuss curriculum one day. That was a big mistake! She hated everything I do and felt sorry for my kids. I thought if I were a kid in her house I'd have to hurl myself out an upstairs window.

 

"That" is the beauty of homeschooling. It is less the ability to do what we "like" and more about the freedom to not do what makes no sense to us.

 

I'm gonna clean up the grammar on that last sentence and embroider it on a pillowcase.

[melmac]

Well, I, for one, am thrilled that none of us are offended! :lol:

 

I have a friend who loves unit studies. She and her children absolutely thrive on them and those kids are educated plenty good. LOL

 

We were so mutually impressed with each others' homeschools that we sat down to discuss curriculum one day. That was a big mistake! She hated everything I do and felt sorry for my kids. I thought if I were a kid in her house I'd have to hurl myself out an upstairs window.

 

"That" is the beauty of homeschooling. It is less the ability to do what we "like" and more about the freedom to not do what makes no sense to us.

 

I'm gonna clean up the grammar on that last sentence and embroider it on a pillowcase.

 

I'll buy one from you. :tongue_smilie::lol:

[melmac]

Whether it's a day or a week or a month, the activities should be more age appropriate. Having my 4 yr old sort them by color & size would be busy work, as she shocked me last year by doing that with her bears. Having them try to write would be fun, but dividing words into syllables? I'm still confused on that one, and playing with oil and water with the feathers, I'm not sure how the feathers play into that....I guess I could see a science lesson in that. But you could do oil and water without any feathers.

 

Sounds like they had a hoopla at their school though. And what I think is funny, is this is the stuff that homeschoolers do on a weekly basis: Unit studies, fun activities to go along with the drugery of the book work (like was mentioned above: building the wall of Jericho and knocking it down!) And we aren't written up in the paper :glare:

 

:lol::lol::lol: :iagree::lol::lol::lol:

[Rosie_0801]

I'm still confused on that one, and playing with oil and water with the feathers, I'm not sure how the feathers play into that....I guess I could see a science lesson in that. But you could do oil and water without any feathers.

 

 

It could have been a lesson about oil spills and ocean dwelling birds; but I guess it wasn't.

Rosie

[Remudamom]

Ugh, I think it's stupid for anyone older than five, and I think it's pretty insulting to them too.

[woolybear]

I don't even think it's the activities or the grade levels I have a problem with, it's more the attitude behind it. The teachers themselves sound so proud, like, look what we could come up with!! The kids aren't using textbooks and worksheets, they're using feathers! I think the teachers themselves sound dumbed down. Okay--let me clarify, not that using feathers or creativity in general is "dumb", no that is good. It's just that it sounded like they've done something amazing (from their perspective).

[Lizzie in Ma]

I really struggle with things like this.

 

It usually hits me in Sunday school. Everybody is so thrilled with the cute and hands-on project that we're doing, and I'm standing there thinking, "Why?"

 

I couldn't say that the kids are not learning, but I could say that they are 10 years old now and should be learning in depth and without feathers, y'know?

 

I can't ever think of a nice way to say that so I keep my mouth shut. It seems that as long as the children are not staring into space then they must be learning. I think the bar is a little too low.

 

And then I feel like an elitist homeschooling snob for expecting more out of education. Maybe I'm all wet about this. Maybe deeper study is right for my own children but it really isn't right for large groups. I don't know.

 

:iagree: No, you are right. I LOVE our church but the Sunday School and even Awana curriculum make my teeth hurt they are so "sweet". There is NO substance, tons of busywork I throw out every week, no depth. Children deserve better, they are smarter than that and the dumbed down stuff makes me want to cry. For years I have chosen my own curriculum for my Awana Sparks, from Creation Science with Jonathan Park to a study in Proverbs with Searching for Treasure. I wish I could pick for Sunday School too.

[michaeljenn]

Well, I'm feeling reckless tonight, so I'll go ahead and say that not only do I think a day like that is probably a fun change of pace and a good learning experience, but projects like that are one of the reasons I have my kids in public school. :D

 

Now, I thought some of the learning activities in the article sounded kind of dumb (using feathers to divide words into syllables?) but others sounded fun and educational (cleaning oil out of water, figuring out why feathers fall more slowly, using feathers as a writing prompt).

 

If every day were like that, I'd have a problem with it. If the kids weren't learning the basics, I'd have a problem with it. But as a break in the routine? I think it's great.

 

I'm just not a crafts-and-projects kind of mom. But my kids like crafts and projects, and they learn a lot from them, so that's one thing I'm happy to have the school do. (I really, really wanted to mummify the chicken . . . but apparently I didn't want it enough to overcome my anti-project personality.)

 

I read SOTW. The school organizes Greek Day. I take the kids to the local sugaring farm and talk about the process. The school has them tap the trees and boil the syrup. I read books about the Pilgrims. The school gives them wood and has them carve trenchers they eat off of while sitting in a teepee.

 

It works for us.

 

:leaving:

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[teamturner]

Whether it's a day or a week or a month, the activities should be more age appropriate. Having my 4 yr old sort them by color & size would be busy work, as she shocked me last year by doing that with her bears. Having them try to write would be fun, but dividing words into syllables? I'm still confused on that one, and playing with oil and water with the feathers, I'm not sure how the feathers play into that....I guess I could see a science lesson in that. But you could do oil and water without any feathers.

:glare:

 

I taught an Earth Science class at my co-op last year and we did an experiment with oil in water and tried various materials to get the oil out (including feathers). I think the purpose was to show how difficult it is to get oil out of water and the effect it has on the environment and animals such as birds. I also don't see a problem with this school having a fun day of thinking outside the box. Some of the activities may have been a stretch to fill the day and perhaps not the best for each age but I think it a good thing that the school took a day to have fun while encouraging creativity. It's not like schools don't have other just fun days that don't really teach anything (party days, field days, etc.) but are just for fun. Or perhaps they take a field trip, which are fun educational activites....we do that too on occasion. In the end it's "to each his own".

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

One of my dd's friends was doing her homework one day. She was in 4th grade. Her homework was a worksheet where she had to complete patterns- you know like ACDCACDBACDACDBA _ _ _ _ _

 

Dd and I just looked at each other, not believing that a 9 year old kid not only had to do this, but for HOMEWORK.

 

So, I talked to a teacher friend of mine about it, and she said that probably a third of her 3rd graders could not do a worksheet like that. Since there is no more tracking, the kids who know it have to do it right along with the kids who don't.

 

So while a lot of us might sit here and say OMG that is insane, there really are kids out there who need this level of instruction at that age.

[abbeyej]

You know, as a one day thing, I really don't see any major problem with it. I'd really care more what they were doing on the other 179 days a year!

 

I mean, this coming week (first week of our new school year), I'm going to let the kids bake a cake and make it into a globe and shape fondant for the continents and mark the names of the continents and oceans with frosting, etc, etc as a fun beginning to the year. It's somewhat educational, lol, but it's also fun and different. We'll be spending a lot of time on math, grammar, writing, Latin, literature, etc, this year too!

 

I've seen unit studies carried to an extreme. I know kids who really learn very little in traditional and home-based schools where nearly every day is like feather-day.

 

But as an occasional supplement? A way to start the semester on a fun note or break up the monotony of every day work? I have no problem with it at all. It's what happens on all the other days that matters.

[Kris]

One of my dd's friends was doing her homework one day. She was in 4th grade. Her homework was a worksheet where she had to complete patterns- you know like ACDCACDBACDACDBA _ _ _ _ _

 

Dd and I just looked at each other, not believing that a 9 year old kid not only had to do this, but for HOMEWORK.

 

So, I talked to a teacher friend of mine about it, and she said that probably a third of her 3rd graders could not do a worksheet like that. Since there is no more tracking, the kids who know it have to do it right along with the kids who don't.

 

So while a lot of us might sit here and say OMG that is insane, there really are kids out there who need this level of instruction at that age.

 

That's what I was thinking. What's appropriate doesn't depend so much on how old the child is, but his or her skill level. I think it sounds like a fun day, but this brings it back around to why it's another reason to be homeschooling -- you don't have to teach to the lowest common denominator if it isn't necessary. With all the discussion at school board meetings about how to motivate students, the ones I attended refused to address the possibility that many of those kids were just bored to tears.

[PrairieAir]

I really don't see anything wrong with this. It was at an elementary school and for only one day. The feathers haven't replaced the entire curriculum for the whole year. Some of the activities sound a little dippy, but some of them could have been very worthwhile if done properly.

 

I think it's great when teachers are willing to step outside of the textbook/workbook, same old boring routine once in a while. I don't see why you can't go for the classical approach to education and still throw some of these things in there. If schoolwork is all about reading from a dry textbook and spitting the answers back out onto a workbook page, kids soon get the message that learning is dull and uninteresting, and I would bet that not much real learning and retention takes place under those circumstances. At best, facts are learned but with very little meaning and application attached to them. Learning should be exciting! Learning should happen in all sorts of ways!

 

Really I'm shocked that homeschoolers, particularly on this board, would be so narrowminded about approaches to education. Aren't some of the benefits of homeschooling that we can step outside of the box; tailor the education to the children and their various abilities, challenges, and learning styles; and make learning an exciting and lifelong adventure? Don't homeschoolers often complain about how public school teachers and staff are often so rigid and set in their ways?

 

Last year when I put my youngest son in 8th grade in the local public school, they asked for a transcript. I was a little surprised because they hadn't asked for one for my oldest daughter when she entered 8th grade there, even though she too had previously been homeschooled. This was a new counselor, though, one who seems to have a problem with homeschoolers. I told her that I did not have one, but that I could come up with one. I then explained that though I had continued grading individual assignments, I had stopped keeping a running average or making report cards long ago. That elicited a very alarmed look from her! I told her that since it was more important to me that the kids understand and master the concepts being taught, I graded their work and had them make corrections or redo entire assignments for which I thought their work showed definite a lack of mastery (typically anything below 85%). Grade reports were simply not relevant with this kind of system. I told her I could understand how they might make keeping track of 20-30 kids easier, but they really weren't necessary for just a few children. When I explained to her that I didn't feel standardized testing had been necessary up to this point because I knew exactly what my children's problem areas were and prior tests had proved me right, she was aghast. She simply could not step out of her little public school box with it's rigid guidelines for the only right and proper method of educating children. She never did see things my way--not even a little bit.

 

Knowing I would have to deal with this counselor again this year or within the next few years when we put our youngest dd in public school, I kept grades--not that they helped me or dd a bit. I knew it was what the counselor needed to keep her little brain from exploding, bless her heart. Unfortunately she was just as shocked when I handed her the report card. She thought she'd had me figured out and I threw her off her guard. I think she was also trying to decide whether I just made up the grades. Whatever.

 

All that to say, don't be like that smug, smiling idiot of a counselor. (No, I'm not calling you an idiot. If you knew this woman, you'd understand.) Don't assume that your way of teaching something is the. only. right. way. Don't be so quick to judge someone else's way of doing things. Maybe it works for them. Don't be afraid to step outside of your comfortable little routine and find new, creative, exciting ways to instill both knowledge and a desire to know more into your children.

[Laura K (NC)]

It seems like by escaping to "feathers," the school and its defenders are saying regular learning isn't exciting enough. I teach Sunday school and have seen my kids get excited about ideas and nifty facts without having to resort to gimmicks. I can tell they are interested when they hit me with question after question which are actually related to what we are learning. Now, I use gimmicks in my Sunday School, too, but the kids last year at the 5th grade level sort of rolled their eyes at them except when they involved candy. :) They were really hungry for knowledge, and they just needed someone to show them that it actually was interesting. Even math is interesting with the right teacher. But being that kind of teacher takes a lot of work.

 

I'm with the others, also, who said that it's really the other 179 days that matter. That's only fair. But there are so many stories like this, of teachers having their students spend so much time constructing Native American art, say, and being expressive with art materials, that they don't really have a solid concept of Native Americans, which should have been the purpose for the lesson. One incident wouldn't be bad if our public schools had high standards. But Joanne Jacobs has been running posts on the Education Olympics, and from that embarrassing display it seems that there are very, very few teachers in the U.S. who have the freedom to spend even one day on feathers.

[melmac]

Maybe I should have prefaced my original post with a little background info. This school is the school my dc would attend if they weren't homeschooled, it has never been on the front page of the newspaper for any reason. According to a teacher I know who frequents our store there are no children on the honor roll because none of their grades are at that level. This school is just barely meeting the acceptable minimum for the "no child left behind act", etc...

 

So when I noticed it on the front page I was really expecting a story with a bit more to it, I was surprised that this is what got them on the front page, it just didn't seem front page newsworthy and so taken with the above mentioned info, is why I made the statement I did. As I stated it is one more reason, along with others that I didn't mention.

 

I'm really surprised by how many of you seemed to have taken my post personally, that was not my intent as I have stated several times throughout this thread.

[melmac]

I agree, that would have been great!

 

It could have been a lesson about oil spills and ocean dwelling birds; but I guess it wasn't.

Rosie

[melmac]

Ah, but this school wouldn't do anything like that because they don't teach geography in elementary school. My understanding is that what happens on all the other days at this school doesn't amount to much.

 

I'm all for fun, age appropriate supplemental educational activities, too. :)

 

 

You know, as a one day thing, I really don't see any major problem with it. I'd really care more what they were doing on the other 179 days a year!

 

I mean, this coming week (first week of our new school year), I'm going to let the kids bake a cake and make it into a globe and shape fondant for the continents and mark the names of the continents and oceans with frosting, etc, etc as a fun beginning to the year. It's somewhat educational, lol, but it's also fun and different. We'll be spending a lot of time on math, grammar, writing, Latin, literature, etc, this year too!

 

I've seen unit studies carried to an extreme. I know kids who really learn very little in traditional and home-based schools where nearly every day is like feather-day.

 

But as an occasional supplement? A way to start the semester on a fun note or break up the monotony of every day work? I have no problem with it at all. It's what happens on all the other days that matters.

[melmac]

You are assuming a lot of negative things about me. Did it ever occur to you to assume anything negative about the school? For further info, you can see my other post.

 

I really don't see anything wrong with this. It was at an elementary school and for only one day. The feathers haven't replaced the entire curriculum for the whole year. Some of the activities sound a little dippy, but some of them could have been very worthwhile if done properly.

 

I think it's great when teachers are willing to step outside of the textbook/workbook, same old boring routine once in a while. I don't see why you can't go for the classical approach to education and still throw some of these things in there. If schoolwork is all about reading from a dry textbook and spitting the answers back out onto a workbook page, kids soon get the message that learning is dull and uninteresting, and I would bet that not much real learning and retention takes place under those circumstances. At best, facts are learned but with very little meaning and application attached to them. Learning should be exciting! Learning should happen in all sorts of ways!

 

Really I'm shocked that homeschoolers, particularly on this board, would be so narrowminded about approaches to education. Aren't some of the benefits of homeschooling that we can step outside of the box; tailor the education to the children and their various abilities, challenges, and learning styles; and make learning an exciting and lifelong adventure? Don't homeschoolers often complain about how public school teachers and staff are often so rigid and set in their ways?

 

Last year when I put my youngest son in 8th grade in the local public school, they asked for a transcript. I was a little surprised because they hadn't asked for one for my oldest daughter when she entered 8th grade there, even though she too had previously been homeschooled. This was a new counselor, though, one who seems to have a problem with homeschoolers. I told her that I did not have one, but that I could come up with one. I then explained that though I had continued grading individual assignments, I had stopped keeping a running average or making report cards long ago. That elicited a very alarmed look from her! I told her that since it was more important to me that the kids understand and master the concepts being taught, I graded their work and had them make corrections or redo entire assignments for which I thought their work showed definite a lack of mastery (typically anything below 85%). Grade reports were simply not relevant with this kind of system. I told her I could understand how they might make keeping track of 20-30 kids easier, but they really weren't necessary for just a few children. When I explained to her that I didn't feel standardized testing had been necessary up to this point because I knew exactly what my children's problem areas were and prior tests had proved me right, she was aghast. She simply could not step out of her little public school box with it's rigid guidelines for the only right and proper method of educating children. She never did see things my way--not even a little bit.

 

Knowing I would have to deal with this counselor again this year or within the next few years when we put our youngest dd in public school, I kept grades--not that they helped me or dd a bit. I knew it was what the counselor needed to keep her little brain from exploding, bless her heart. Unfortunately she was just as shocked when I handed her the report card. She thought she'd had me figured out and I threw her off her guard. I think she was also trying to decide whether I just made up the grades. Whatever.

 

All that to say, don't be like that smug, smiling idiot of a counselor. (No, I'm not calling you an idiot. If you knew this woman, you'd understand.) Don't assume that your way of teaching something is the. only. right. way. Don't be so quick to judge someone else's way of doing things. Maybe it works for them. Don't be afraid to step outside of your comfortable little routine and find new, creative, exciting ways to instill both knowledge and a desire to know more into your children.

[melmac]

Yes and I should have mentioned some background info in my first post, that would have better clarified my comment. I did add that info in a seperate post. So :iagree:

 

It seems like by escaping to "feathers," the school and its defenders are saying regular learning isn't exciting enough. I teach Sunday school and have seen my kids get excited about ideas and nifty facts without having to resort to gimmicks. I can tell they are interested when they hit me with question after question which are actually related to what we are learning. Now, I use gimmicks in my Sunday School, too, but the kids last year at the 5th grade level sort of rolled their eyes at them except when they involved candy. :) They were really hungry for knowledge, and they just needed someone to show them that it actually was interesting. Even math is interesting with the right teacher. But being that kind of teacher takes a lot of work.

 

I'm with the others, also, who said that it's really the other 179 days that matter. That's only fair. But there are so many stories like this, of teachers having their students spend so much time constructing Native American art, say, and being expressive with art materials, that they don't really have a solid concept of Native Americans, which should have been the purpose for the lesson. One incident wouldn't be bad if our public schools had high standards. But Joanne Jacobs has been running posts on the Education Olympics, and from that embarrassing display it seems that there are very, very few teachers in the U.S. who have the freedom to spend even one day on feathers.

[Laura K (NC)]

This added information isn't unexpected.

 

There was an article in our local paper last week that 70.8% of high schoolers graduate in four years from our county's public schools. This isn't backwater hick-dom, this is one of the larger cities in our state that is the home of some huge corporations. 70.8%, and the article was boasting that that was a higher score than before. If homeschoolers had a history like that, the politicians would be all over us, giving us more tests, cracking down on our curriculum, making us adhere to public school standards. It's laughable, really, that the public school standards are so low as to tolerate these percentages and to be able to stay in business. If my sons wanted to buy something used at Amazon or EBay, and they saw a 70.8% approval rating for a seller, even they would know to avoid them. That means that almost 1/3 of the transactions failed. In our public school system, almost 1/3 of the transactions fail. They probably have plenty of "feather" days here, too; they just don't make front-page news.

 

Joanne Jacobs posted an article last week about Dallas' district-wide rules that basically forbid teachers to enforce work deadlines from their students, and to forbid them from giving a grade lower than a 50. 20%, or 1/5, of their 9th graders fail, and that rate embarrasses them. Maybe they have a lot of feather days, too. Instead of teaching better and expecting more, they lower the expectations.

 

These kids are going to have an interesting kind of transition to make, when 20 or 30% of them expect to get a job with no high school diploma, and find out that the few companies who might actually employ them for minimum wage don't schedule "feather" days.

 

These are the kind of stories that I need to read in January, when my resistance is low. Bring 'em on in August, though... I'm ready to go, thrilled to be homeschooling!

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

This added information isn't unexpected.

 

There was an article in our local paper last week that 70.8% of high schoolers graduate in four years from our county's public schools. This isn't backwater hick-dom, this is one of the larger cities in our state that is the home of some huge corporations. 70.8%, and the article was boasting that that was a higher score than before. If homeschoolers had a history like that, the politicians would be all over us, giving us more tests, cracking down on our curriculum, making us adhere to public school standards. It's laughable, really, that the public school standards are so low as to tolerate these percentages and to be able to stay in business. If my sons wanted to buy something used at Amazon or EBay, and they saw a 70.8% approval rating for a seller, even they would know to avoid them. That means that almost 1/3 of the transactions failed. In our public school system, almost 1/3 of the transactions fail. They probably have plenty of "feather" days here, too; they just don't make front-page news.

 

Joanne Jacobs posted an article last week about Dallas' district-wide rules that basically forbid teachers to enforce work deadlines from their students, and to forbid them from giving a grade lower than a 50. 20%, or 1/5, of their 9th graders fail, and that rate embarrasses them. Maybe they have a lot of feather days, too. Instead of teaching better and expecting more, they lower the expectations.

 

These kids are going to have an interesting kind of transition to make, when 20 or 30% of them expect to get a job with no high school diploma, and find out that the few companies who might actually employ them for minimum wage don't schedule "feather" days.

 

These are the kind of stories that I need to read in January, when my resistance is low. Bring 'em on in August, though... I'm ready to go, thrilled to be homeschooling!

 

I guess you live in a town with good schools. Here in Indianapolis we graduated 19 percent of our boys in 2005-06.

 

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080726/LOCAL18/807260429

[jedbel]

I mean, this coming week (first week of our new school year), I'm going to let the kids bake a cake and make it into a globe and shape fondant for the continents and mark the names of the continents and oceans with frosting, etc, etc as a fun beginning to the year

 

What a neat idea! How can I get more info. on this project? I think my kids would have a blast doing it:D

[melmac]

:iagree: It's sad, really.

 

Here's to a great year!

 

 

 

This added information isn't unexpected.

 

There was an article in our local paper last week that 70.8% of high schoolers graduate in four years from our county's public schools. This isn't backwater hick-dom, this is one of the larger cities in our state that is the home of some huge corporations. 70.8%, and the article was boasting that that was a higher score than before. If homeschoolers had a history like that, the politicians would be all over us, giving us more tests, cracking down on our curriculum, making us adhere to public school standards. It's laughable, really, that the public school standards are so low as to tolerate these percentages and to be able to stay in business. If my sons wanted to buy something used at Amazon or EBay, and they saw a 70.8% approval rating for a seller, even they would know to avoid them. That means that almost 1/3 of the transactions failed. In our public school system, almost 1/3 of the transactions fail. They probably have plenty of "feather" days here, too; they just don't make front-page news.

 

Joanne Jacobs posted an article last week about Dallas' district-wide rules that basically forbid teachers to enforce work deadlines from their students, and to forbid them from giving a grade lower than a 50. 20%, or 1/5, of their 9th graders fail, and that rate embarrasses them. Maybe they have a lot of feather days, too. Instead of teaching better and expecting more, they lower the expectations.

 

These kids are going to have an interesting kind of transition to make, when 20 or 30% of them expect to get a job with no high school diploma, and find out that the few companies who might actually employ them for minimum wage don't schedule "feather" days.

 

These are the kind of stories that I need to read in January, when my resistance is low. Bring 'em on in August, though... I'm ready to go, thrilled to be homeschooling!

[melmac]

Our rate is somewhere around that number, as well. It really makes you wonder.

 

 

I guess you live in a town with good schools. Here in Indianapolis we graduated 19 percent of our boys in 2005-06.

 

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080726/LOCAL18/807260429

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

This added information isn't unexpected.

 

There was an article in our local paper last week that 70.8% of high schoolers graduate in four years from our county's public schools. This isn't backwater hick-dom, this is one of the larger cities in our state that is the home of some huge corporations. 70.8%, and the article was boasting that that was a higher score than before. If homeschoolers had a history like that, the politicians would be all over us, giving us more tests, cracking down on our curriculum, making us adhere to public school standards. It's laughable, really, that the public school standards are so low as to tolerate these percentages and to be able to stay in business. If my sons wanted to buy something used at Amazon or EBay, and they saw a 70.8% approval rating for a seller, even they would know to avoid them. That means that almost 1/3 of the transactions failed. In our public school system, almost 1/3 of the transactions fail. They probably have plenty of "feather" days here, too; they just don't make front-page news.

 

Joanne Jacobs posted an article last week about Dallas' district-wide rules that basically forbid teachers to enforce work deadlines from their students, and to forbid them from giving a grade lower than a 50. 20%, or 1/5, of their 9th graders fail, and that rate embarrasses them. Maybe they have a lot of feather days, too. Instead of teaching better and expecting more, they lower the expectations.

 

These kids are going to have an interesting kind of transition to make, when 20 or 30% of them expect to get a job with no high school diploma, and find out that the few companies who might actually employ them for minimum wage don't schedule "feather" days.

 

These are the kind of stories that I need to read in January, when my resistance is low. Bring 'em on in August, though... I'm ready to go, thrilled to be homeschooling!

 

What do you suggest the teachers do? If a kid comes home from school to where his mother is laying in bed dying of AIDS that kid is probably not going to be too concerned with the math test tomorrow.

 

Sure- every homeschool kid in my state is going to get a diploma because the parents determine the requirements. Some kids are watching TV and playing video games all day and getting that diploma. I am sure it is nowhere near the 30% mark but they still exist.

[Laura K (NC)]

You asked,

What do you suggest the teachers do? If a kid comes home from school to where his mother is laying in bed dying of AIDS that kid is probably not going to be too concerned with the math test tomorrow.

I suggest the teachers try harder. Since other countries can graduate at higher rates and higher standards, I suggest that it's possible for us to do that too. The hypothetical kid whose mom has AIDS will not be any better off left to wallow in his sorrows. Every single persons' success in life depends on their ability to overcome life's difficulties -- to become conquerors instead of victims. There's only so much a teacher and a school can do, granted. But what they can do is educate.

[abbeyej]

I mean, this coming week (first week of our new school year), I'm going to let the kids bake a cake and make it into a globe and shape fondant for the continents and mark the names of the continents and oceans with frosting, etc, etc as a fun beginning to the year

 

What a neat idea! How can I get more info. on this project? I think my kids would have a blast doing it:D

 

I'm afraid I'm not following directions or anything. I thought about trying to make an actual globe cake (isn't that one precious?), but I'm afraid a project like that is not one I can do *with* kids and not lose my mind. ;)

 

So I'm just going to make a sheet cake and we'll use a flat projection map as our guide to create a world map. (We'll be talking about different kinds of maps and why a flat surface is not ideal for world maps, but sometimes necessary -- for instance, when we're making a cake!) We'll use a faux fondant recipe (easier to make with kids, easy to model with too) called "rolled buttercream".

 

Basically, we'll do a light coat of regular (buttercream type) frosting over the cake, then roll out a portion of the "fondant" dyed blue (I use Wilton icing food coloring) and cover the cake for the ocean. We'll dye some of the rest green or brown or leave it white, etc, and do our best to approximate the continents using our map as a reference. We'll put in the equator and mark the continents and oceans and any major landmarks the kids want to try to include.

 

And then we'll invite all the neighbor kids to come help us eat it. ;) After we have Daddy take a picture, of course!