What's the use of projects?

[musicianmom]

I'm about ready to pull my dd8 out of her weekly tutorial because the projects are driving me bananas. Make a model of this, make a poster of that, all with instructions to have fun! This is history and geography, btw.

 

Dd is not that kind of learner. She can read a lesson in a book, narrate, answer questions, do worksheets, etc. quite easily. She hasn't missed a question on any of her tests. But the projects are a nightmare.

 

If we were doing school completely on our own, projects would be nothing more than science experiments and actual art.

 

Is there something valuable these projects are providing? When I was in school, I always cynically figured teachers assigned projects so the not-so-academic students had a shot at an A for once. Was I wrong?

[justasque]

In adult life, there is very little of reading something and doing a worksheet or test on it, and quite a lot of project-doing.  

Projects involve thinking through the project, coming up with ideas, making a plan and a timeline to complete it, sourcing materials, improvising when needed, and deciding how much effort is required given the relative importance of the project and the time frame available.  Often it also involves working with others, and presenting the final project to a group.  

That's not to say that every project is worth your time.  However, projects involve lots of opportunity to practice a complex collection of real-life skills that will serve your student well in the long run.  Book learning often doesn't really need a co-op, but a co-op is often a good setting for working on learning project-oriented skills.

[MeghanL]

Myself and at least one of my children are very kinestethic in our learning style. Projects are a great way to reach these types of learners. When a group is involved, I would see projects as something the teacher is using to reach all learning styles not just the auditory & visual ones.

Tactile learning is also very effective. If you can see, hear, touch and taste a subject matter, the retention is so much better than one or two of those. So, I see many benefits to projects.

[Dmmetler]

I do a Mythology group that meets monthly, and what I've found works well is to ask the kids to come up with something to share related to the topic each month-but to leave it entirely up to them. Over the last two years, that's included kids who did formal research papers and presented them with all the gravitas of a professional conference,  kids who created one man/woman dramatic shows, complete with plots and costumes, pretty involved arts/crafts projects, Fakebook pages and comment feeds for mythological characters, Lego creations, movies made using stop motion animation or scratch programming, computer adventure games created using Minecraft, short stories written and read aloud, sewing projects, and probably more that I'm forgetting.

 

 

One reason why I started this group (besides that DD loves mythology and wanted like-minded friends to prepare for the National Mythology Exam with) was because my DD struggled in presenting her ideas to a group (in part because when she did in co-op, she often got negative responses for being "too smart" or "using too big of words") so I wanted to give these kids a chance to develop presentation skills in a safe environment. What I've found is that by being open ended, the kids are really letting their creativity shine, in ways I'd never expect, and that go far beyond "read these half dozen stories, fill out the study guide, and be ready to talk about them in class (which is what the NME prep materials pretty much are)".

 

 

[Luckymama]

Projects imposed on dd are horrible; projects she chooses are The Best Things Ever. It's been this way since she was small.

[Freckles]

OP, I completely agree. I hate projects with a passion, but my dd is a visual learner. I can understand how they are beneficial to the hands on learner. It was one of the reasons we pulled her out of public school. So many weeks were devoted to projects. It was expensive and exhausting. In our home school, the closest we get to a project is her art. She is a painter like her dad.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I'm with your dd! I hate that kind of project.  I'm finally getting over my guilt of skipping anything that I don't think directly contributes to the learning goal.  Science kits/curricula are the worst, I have yet to find one where most of the projects aren't pointless and annoying.  

 

My older dd does her own projects - my role is helping her find supplies.  My younger dd likes projects, a lot, and I'm trying to find the sweet spot with her.  I suspect part of what she likes about them is that they don't feel like "real school" and she feels like she's getting away with something  :glare: .  Or maybe I'm just a project curmudgeon!  I'm about the least crafty, projecty person I know.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Nary a project here. It was one of the deciding factors in leaving public school. We all loathe projects and if you make it a group project the loathesomness rises exponentially. I have arranged our lives to avoid projects.

[regentrude]

My kids hated every kind of "project". They would groan and ask why they can't just read about it in a book. So that's what we did.

I see the value of projects for very young kids to develop fine motor skills, but for older kids, I find it a very ineffective way of learning. It would be something to do for fun if the kids had fun - mine just never did. So we skipped all the dioramas and models and stuff.

 

ETA: Not all learning that involves doing something besides reading is something I consider a "project" : science lab, oral presentations, art, cooking - those are fine.

[Chrysalis Academy]

My kids hated every kind of "project". They would groan and ask why they can't just read about it in a book. So that's what we did.

I see the value of projects for very young kids to develop fine motor skills, but for older kids, I find it a very ineffective way of learning. It would be something to do for fun if the kids had fun - mine just never did. So we skipped all the dioramas and models and stuff.

 

ETA: Not all learning that involves doing something besides reading is something I consider a "project" : science lab, oral presentations, art, cooking - those are fine.

 

Right - this is my response to the very demo-ish science projects that we keep running into.  I'm thinking, you just described exactly what we should do and exactly what will happen and why.  So why do we actually need to do it?

 

OTOH, the pendulum experiment we did the other day was wonderful - Shannon really didn't know what would happen when you increased the angle of the swing, or added weight to the bob, or lengthened the string.  She was able to set up the experiment, make a prediction, collect the data via multiple trials (nice chance to talk about measurement error and methodology) - and oops, it did not confirm her hypothesis! Wonder why?  Now you have to actually think . . .which led to a nice discussion of velocity vs. acceleration and the connection with the math she just happens to be studying right now (ratios & rates). I bet she remembers this concept/lesson forever, since she actually figured it out herself, rather than just reading about it.

 

I've decided I need to really focus on this type of "project" - one that requires making a prediction, collecting data, and thinking, and cut the chaff - stuff you can just look at the picture, read the explanation, and go, "Got it.".

[mamajudy]

I think there is a big difference between assigned projects and student-led projects. When we noticed that our children seemed especially interested in something, we tried to think of ways they could really explore that subject in-depth. It wasn't a "Here's what you are going to do" kind of thing, It was more like "Maybe we could do this or this." An interest in birds, for example, turned into a life-long love of bird-watching, hand-raising baby lovebirds, and keeping a flock of racing pigeons (which included designing and building a loft -- a good chance to use math/geometry skills). An obsession with King Arthur turned into an opportunity to learn fencing with a former Olympic coach and travel to national tournaments. I could go on and on with examples of projects we did over the years. 

 

Yes, a person can learn by reading books and doing worksheets, but homeschooling allows us to do so much more! 

[Snow]

In my experience with DS, I think he does remember things better when there has been a hands on component. I've noticed this dramatically with geography and history. So I think for some kids it helps solidify things. it forces them to think about it in a different way. It turns the information into something more than just "cool, that's an interesting fact;" something make than a tidbit to be stored in the recesses of his brain.

 

Btw, I'm surprised at my response since I've generally been in agreement with you on this type of stuff. It's just, it's becoming so clear for DS that his retention is better that I feel like I can't deny doing it.

[Snow]

I will add though that not all projects are equal. I think kids know when there is some meat and value to the project, vs if it is just a demonstrate what you learned type of thing, at least for DS. Show what you learned turns him off right away; let's do a project to see how this plays out in real life is what he's interested in.

[CardinalAlt]

I call them responses, and generally suggest DD respond to material she's really interested in - if she doesn't beat me to it. Like others have said, she has lots of creative control - I make suggestions and sometimes help her organize her work, move toward completion... Her favorite thing lately has been game making - most recently, a memory match correlating Greek and Roman gods and goddesses. We read all about each one in more detail as she was deciding how to draw them. I suggested the player not be allowed to pick up the match unless she could also say what s/he was god or goddess of... Fun, effective way to dive in and learn! Another example, a few weeks ago she decided she wanted to write a science report, so ok, off we went!

 

Anyway, all that to say, I think there's something really valuable in interacting with material and ideas in creative, intrinsically motivating ways. I also really appreciate the point made above about how it correlates with needed real world skills.

[CardinalAlt]

I will add though that not all projects are equal. I think kids know when there is some meat and value to the project, vs if it is just a demonstrate what you learned type of thing, at least for DS. Show what you learned turns him off right away; let's do a project to see how this plays out in real life is what he's interested in.

I agree, just show what you know = no fun. But teach someone else what you've already learned - that's a winner in my house!

[Wildiris]

In adult life, there is very little of reading something and doing a worksheet or test on it, and quite a lot of project-doing.  

 

Projects involve thinking through the project, coming up with ideas, making a plan and a timeline to complete it, sourcing materials, improvising when needed, and deciding how much effort is required given the relative importance of the project and the time frame available.  Often it also involves working with others, and presenting the final project to a group.  

 

That's not to say that every project is worth your time.  However, projects involve lots of opportunity to practice a complex collection of real-life skills that will serve your student well in the long run.  Book learning often doesn't really need a co-op, but a co-op is often a good setting for working on learning project-oriented skills.

 

Great response!

There are projects worth doing and projects that are just make-work. My preference is for projects to have meaning beyond the student, thus I prefer projects that create a presentation of learning. It would be great if kids from these boards could collaborate on projects.

[Mbelle]

I loathe and despise projects.  Most are just busy work and money pits. I hope to never see another diorama in my lifetime. 

 

Now my kids are in FLL (Lego League) and that is another thing altogether and makes sense and they totally love it.  

[sbgrace]

Good points are raised in the posts I've read so far on this thread. I'll just say that the best learning (generally occurs) when a person must teach another. Second best, for most, is using/applying what they've learned in some way. For most people, regurgitated information on a worksheet or test is not retained long term. I'm good at those and always hated projects as a student. But that doesn't mean those things were actually good teaching methods.

[Abbyjensen]

I hate projects. I hated projects in school. I hated assigning projects. I hate doing projects. I still hate doing projects. There are some people who LOVE projects, and I respect that, but I hate projects.

 

I'm also the same person who, in my film course in college, read the book instead of watching the movie. People are different.

 

All the said, I do appreciate the ability to present information in a visual form. While I prefer to give a speech, or to just write something explaining it, understanding how to present information visually is a good skill to have. Projects involving things like making a diorama or many elementary science projects can be fun, but I find them to be silly and not very educational.

 

Projects that involve using information, becoming an expert on the information, and teaching it to others through verbal and or visual means- those are good. My go-to project is to create a web page about a certain topic, which is then shared with other students in a coop. The student has to decide whether or not to include pictures or videos, which to include, if he should make a video of himself demonstrating something or if he should just write about it, how the page should be set up, what makes the information visually friendly and easy to navigate, etc.

[musicianmom]

Well, the history project is done. Dd decided what topics she wanted on the poster, chose pictures online to print, and decided on the text for the captions. I had to do the word processing grunt work because she hasn't learned to use Pages yet. But she had fun, and agreed to learn how to use Pages so she could be more independent next time.

 

I still hate posters, because I think the emphasis shifts to computer and art skills at the expense of the subject being studied. And dioramas make me want to cuss.

 

Some of the projects you all mentioned sound fun.

[kitten18]

Projects imposed on dd are horrible; projects she chooses are The Best Things Ever. It's been this way since she was small.

Ha! I agree.

 

 

My kids were in a dinosaur enrichment class earlier this year.  The day before the last class DD says, "teacher said we should make a diorama".

Me:  "A diorama!!!, A DIORAMA!!!" :scared: :willy_nilly: :willy_nilly: :willy_nilly:  "If I wanted to do dioramas I would have put you in school!!!"

 

 

Now projects that I come up with or they come up with on their own are fine.  When they come from an outside teacher, I tend to rebel. :o

[Sammish]

There is some discussion of projects and hands on activities in the very interesting book "Why Don't Students Like School," which is by a cognitive scientist. Basically he said you had to be careful what an activity is really causing a student to think about. The example given was that if you have kids make biscuits when studying the underground railroad, they'll spend a couple of minutes thinking about the underground railroad, and then all the rest of the time thinking about baking - measuring, mixing, etc. Which is fine if you want to include some math in their lesson, but if you really want them to be thinking about history, it's wasted time. 

 

I think this is important to think about in any project a kid is doing: how much time is spent thinking about the subject at hand, and how much is spent on the "extra" - cutting, pasting, figuring out how Power Point works, etc. 

[regentrude]

There is some discussion of projects and hands on activities in the very interesting book "Why Don't Students Like School," which is by a cognitive scientist. Basically he said you had to be careful what an activity is really causing a student to think about. The example given was that if you have kids make biscuits when studying the underground railroad, they'll spend a couple of minutes thinking about the underground railroad, and then all the rest of the time thinking about baking - measuring, mixing, etc. Which is fine if you want to include some math in their lesson, but if you really want them to be thinking about history, it's wasted time. 

 

I think this is important to think about in any project a kid is doing: how much time is spent thinking about the subject at hand, and how much is spent on the "extra" - cutting, pasting, figuring out how Power Point works, etc. 

 

Thanks for putting very succinctly what I have been feeling but was unable to put a finger on. THIS is exactly what bothers me. The hours of work spent constructing the diorama of a Native American village for example are spent focused on gluing and cutting and painting - the thinking about the content and engaging with the history is a tiny part of the entire process. Ditto for log cabins from popsicle sticks and the like. Which make those good for developing fine motor skills and inefficient for learning history.

[musicianmom]

Like x 1000 to Sammish's and Regentrude's posts.

 

This is also the issue I have with lap booking. Time that could be spent on actual subject matter is instead spent cutting, coloring, and pasting.