Megicce Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 We've just hit long u (with silent e) in The Ordinary Parent's Guide. The book recommends to teach it as the name of the letter ("yoo"), and to pronounce the words accordingly (like "tyoob" for tube). Trouble is, we don't pronounce things that way. In our family's idiolect, a lot of the long-u words are just "oo" - like "toob" for tube, "joon" for June. My dd is really confused, and I feel like I'm not quite sure how to explain it to her. She'll sound out the word, but then not know what it means, because that's not how we say it. Anybody else deal with this issue, and how did you manage it? Do I just kind of go with it and let her figure it out as we go? Or is there some way to explain it that could help her out? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 We've just hit long u (with silent e) in The Ordinary Parent's Guide. The book recommends to teach it as the name of the letter ("yoo"), and to pronounce the words accordingly (like "tyoob" for tube). Trouble is, we don't pronounce things that way. In our family's idiolect, a lot of the long-u words are just "oo" - like "toob" for tube, "joon" for June. My dd is really confused, and I feel like I'm not quite sure how to explain it to her. She'll sound out the word, but then not know what it means, because that's not how we say it. Anybody else deal with this issue, and how did you manage it? Do I just kind of go with it and let her figure it out as we go? Or is there some way to explain it that could help her out? Well, uh, the book is wrong. Usually "u" is pronounced that way at the beginning of a word - like usually, or unicorn, or unique, although there are words like confusing and refute, mute. But June, tube, rule, dune, rune, lube, jute - they all have the same sound as tool, pool, and moon. Our reading program stridently refuted the "long vowel" idea as artificial and confusing- it would say that the word "tube" does not have a "long u" sound at all - it has the sound "oo". It taught that the letter combination "u_e" sometimes represents the sound "oo", and at other times it represents "yoo". Phonics programs should not be making up "rules" (not "ryools" :lol:) that don't actually reflect the way we speak because they like to pretend that "silent e makes the vowel long". Like it also does in "come" and "love". ;) What is a "long vowel" anyway - it's a completely made-up concept; 4 out of 5 English "long vowel" sounds aren't even vowel sounds at all, but diphthongs. We used Reading Reflex (same method is also used in ABeCeDarian) - 100% phonetic, easy to learn and understand, and not a single "rule" to memorize (and then memorize all the "exceptions" to). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonder Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Yes, I would just explain that sometimes "long u" says its name and sometimes it says "oo." In words like 'music' and 'mule,' even though it's not the first letter, the u does sound like its name. As your daughter is exposed more to reading and phonics, she'll figure it out. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Well, uh, the book is wrong. Usually "u" is pronounced that way at the beginning of a word - like usually, or unicorn, or unique, although there are words like confusing and refute, mute. But June, tube, rule, dune, rune, lube, jute - they all have the same sound as tool, pool, and moon. Well, think about words such as "cute." Don't you pronounce it differently than you do "coot"? Or "refute" or "rebuke." Surely you don't say "refoot" or "rebook." I don't know you could pronounce "June" any differently, so that isn't a good word to include in the list. :-) Or "rule," "jute," or "lube." But there are definitely people who don't say "toob." :-) IOW, OPGTR is correct. You just might use different words to illustrate that sound than what is in the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I think the way AAS explains it is that sometimes it's hard to pronounce the long u after a letter ("rule") so it comes out as /oo/ instead of /U/. Since the /U/ sound is /y/oo/, it's not a big leap to say that long U is /U/, but say /oo/ if you cannot form the /U/ sound in the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Well, think about words such as "cute." Don't you pronounce it differently than you do "coot"? Or "refute" or "rebuke." Surely you don't say "refoot" or "rebook." That's why I said that "although there are words like confusing or refute" and in the next paragraph, sometimes u_e it represents "oo" and at others "yoo". It's just not one or the other. Are both sounds "long u" or do confusing, refute and music have "long u" and June, lube and rule don't? Why does it makes sense to pretend they have the same sound in them - they don't. Why define two different sounds as "long u"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 That's why I said that "although there are words like confusing or refute" and in the next paragraph, sometimes u_e it represents "oo" and at others "yoo". It's just not one or the other. Are both sounds "long u" or do confusing, refute and music have "long u" and June, lube and rule don't? Why does it makes sense to pretend they have the same sound in them - they don't. Why define two different sounds as "long u"? :confused1: Your comments don't make sense to me, but that's ok. :-) This is why I like Spalding. It doesn't use the word "long" (or "short"); it just teaches what the sounds are, teaches the children to analyze words to see which phonograms apply, and any rules which apply, and then moves on without belaboring the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I'm teaching this to dd using ElizabethB's syllabary lessons, fiddled around a bit to suit our accent. Dd hasn't had any problem learning that, at the end of a syllable, u can sound like oo or yoo. I taught her which letters are followed by u=yoo, then we moved onto those where u=oo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Well, uh, the book is wrong. Usually "u" is pronounced that way at the beginning of a word - like usually, or unicorn, or unique, although there are words like confusing and refute, mute. But June, tube, rule, dune, rune, lube, jute - they all have the same sound as tool, pool, and moon. It depends on the accent. I pronounce most of those with a 'y' sound (Jyoon, tyoob - it's almost 'choob' actually, dyoon, jyoot). The others are rool, roon and loob. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsmm Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 We are currently listening to Harry Potter, read by Jim Dale, and the kids and I have noticed that he pronounces the long u in those words. I don't think the book is wrong, it's just how our accent is. My kids can figure out the word though, so it's not an issue. My ds is just starting to read, and he will sound it out with a long u and then say the word the way we say it. Maybe that's because after five Harry Potter books we have all gotten use to the long u! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piper Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 It depends on the accent. I pronounce most of those with a 'y' sound (Jyoon, tyoob - it's almost 'choob' actually, dyoon, jyoot). The others are rool, roon and loob. L Ditto. This is more of an English/Australian way of pronouncing /U/. As an Aussie teaching American kids, I teach them that there are two ways to make the sound, and just try each one until you find the one that works. Seems to work in pretty much every situation - and as I tell my kids, it's English, so although there are rules, there are always plenty of exceptions! Sometimes you just have to try out the different options until you hit the right one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrale Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I am Australian married to an American raising a son in America. I also teach my son that there are two ways to say it. Tuesday, due, and even dew are other words that use the yoo sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I cover up the words in OPTGR that don't work with my accent. I do use a long U in tube but I don't use a short a in fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megicce Posted October 26, 2013 Author Share Posted October 26, 2013 I love that we're hearing from people with British and Aussie accents, too! Thanks, all of you...my first response was just to explain that sometimes it's yoo and sometimes it's oo and just figure it out - kind of like with the two sounds of th. I appreciate your input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 From my spelling rules, extra rules for students with speech difficulties and ESL students (based on standard American accent) u, eu, ue, and ew can be pronounced either “yoo†or “oo†depending on the letter that comes before the vowel. Words that start with a ch, d, j, l, r, or s will say “oo,†t can say either sound except for a few words which can only be pronounced “oo.†Words starting with all other letters will say “yoo.†oo: due, chew, june, lute, rue, Sue, blue, brew yoo: butane, cube, feud, mew Most people will figure it out naturally, some students with speech difficulties have to understand and sometimes even memorize the letters and reasons for the differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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