Elisabet1 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 We spend part of our year in another state. Our oldest, who is in public school now, earned a 216 on the PSAT. For our state, she missed the cut off. For more than 40 other states, she would have been a NMSF. The National Merit would have made a world of difference for us. Colleges were sending us information telling us how they would give her all this scholarship money based on NM status. This is our last year ever having a public schooler. We will never ever do public school again. The rest of our children homeschool. We already said that next fall, we will spend part of it back where we are from, which is South Dakota. Thing is, and I called and checked this out with the National Merit corporation, it does not matter where you live when the results come out or when you graduate, it matters where you were when you took the test. So, if we had our child take the PSAT while we are still in SD (plan our trip that year so we are there on those dates) and use our address up there at the time, even if we change the address over to our Texas address the very next week, he would end up NMSF if he makes the lower numbers that SD requires. I am beginning to think that we should do this if we still have our place in SD when the time comes. Is this nuts? Or just a very good idea? (we actually might not have our place in TX by then as DH is eager to sell our house here and live there permanently, but I am not sure I want to be in SD all winter and if anything happens to DH's job, employment is better down here). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenda in MA Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I'm not sure what to tell you, but I can definitely commiserate. My son had a similarly high score and would have been an NMF in nearly every state except for ours, which has the highest cutoff this year at 224. What a ridiculous process when a student can be in the 98th percentile but not make NMF. I hope you get an answer to your question. Brenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in CA Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I'm not sure, either, but parents in CA will also commiserate! To me it sounds like you have a perfectly "legit" reason for your kids to take the PSAT in SD -- you're not planning to fly there on vacation, for example, having no connection to the state .... :) I do know a homeschooling family living overseas who comes home occasionally to visit family in both California and Arkansas. On a recent visit they divided their time between CA and AR in such a way that their high-school junior would be taking the PSAT in AR, not CA, and so that their, yes, 14-year-old could get a driver's permit, also in AR. And why not? Whether or not the rules are "fair" is another matter, but (to me) in both cases above, families are simply arranging their lives to take the best advantage of the way things are. Best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjbucks1 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I just wonder how easy it will be to get a school to allow you take it if you do not live in their district. Maybe a private school would allow this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I just wonder how easy it will be to get a school to allow you take it if you do not live in their district. Maybe a private school would allow this? Homeschoolers here can take it at public schools. Many private schools here also allow homeschoolers to sit for the test with their students as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmrich Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I know my cousins took the sat when visiting us, just because that is now it worked out. If you have figured out the rules of the game you might as well follow them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Time to plan a WTM conference in SD? Maybe in Oct? Seriously I would double and triple check the rules. I took the PSAT in WA, the moved over the summer and did the rest of the NM process in TX. But I don't remember if I just met the cutoff in both states or if they counted one and not the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I'd do it if I were in your shoes. You called and asked. It's their rules. Middle son was in the same boat with having had the numbers to qualify in most states, but not ours. It was frustrating. Had we not moved from his native state he'd have made it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I'm going to assume you have you have accurate information. If you do, then that is a sad state of affairs, BUT I think the possibility of a college having an extremely negative reaction if they learn you did this is real and I'm not sure I'd do it. Whether it is fair or not, going to a state only for a week or two to take the PSAT to gain a scholarship will make you and your children look unethical to college admissions folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Yeah, it really stinks that you're penalized for living near smart people. What the heck? One of my dds last year as a freshman scored high enough to have qualified as a NMS in in many states.(okay, it was a Kaplan practice test, but one hopes it would be representative since they're trying to scare you into paying for test prep...) If she had taken the test 15 minutes north of me in the neighboring state, she would have been only 4 points away from the cut-off instead of 14 (in many other states she would have made the cut-off, but they're further away). I have no plans to cross state lines, but it's tempting. Do they really only count based on where you took the test, not state of residence?? Other dd did well but not quite so well, but she was a bit sick that day and usually scores slightly higher of the two on standardized tests, so I'm not sure how accurate that was. They're taking the real thing next month as sophomores, we'll see how those practice tests scores translate into reality... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 I'm going to assume you have you have accurate information. If you do, then that is a sad state of affairs, BUT I think the possibility of a college having an extremely negative reaction if they learn you did this is real and I'm not sure I'd do it. Whether it is fair or not, going to a state only for a week or two to take the PSAT to gain a scholarship will make you and your children look unethical to college admissions folks. We don't go there for only a week. Our oldest is in public school. So we went there when she got out and returned to Texas a week before school started. We wanted to spend the fall there this year, but with oldest in school, we could not. Plus, we stay with my grandmother, who comes here to stay by end of October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 We don't go there for only a week. Our oldest is in public school. So we went there when she got out and returned to Texas a week before school started. We wanted to spend the fall there this year, but with oldest in school, we could not. Plus, we stay with my grandmother, who comes here to stay by end of October. Would she be applying to Texas schools as an in-state resident? Would there be potential for creating a conflict between that and the SD PSAT scores? It might work. It might even be pretty legit. But I also think you need to consider what negative interpretation someone else might put onto it. It's possible that a college would not see where the test was taken/cut off score derived from, but only that a student was a semi-finalist/finalist. Or they might see that the student was a semi-finalist/finalist with a much lower score than peers from Texas. I do sympathize. DS1 (Rutabaga) had scores as a freshman that would have qualified him in 39 states, but not in ours. On one hand I understand the desire to not have winners concentrated in a few states or districts. On the other hand, it has the perverse effect of putting high scoring, well educated students (who have often worked hard for their grades and academic understandings) behind less well prepared students. I'm not sure that is really fair as most people would understand it. [And I notice that there isn't a similar push for geographic diversity in athletic scholarships.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I sympathize with the unfairness of the state cut offs. It far from ideal to set up a system this way. I'm wary of this and I would urge you to do more research before you put too much stock in what you were told on the phone. Will your student be registered as a homeschooler in SD or Texas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 If you are paying taxes on a property you own in SD, then I personally would have no issue with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 We spend part of our year in another state. Our oldest, who is in public school now, earned a 216 on the PSAT. For our state, she missed the cut off. For more than 40 other states, she would have been a NMSF. The National Merit would have made a world of difference for us. Colleges were sending us information telling us how they would give her all this scholarship money based on NM status. This is our last year ever having a public schooler. We will never ever do public school again. The rest of our children homeschool. We already said that next fall, we will spend part of it back where we are from, which is South Dakota. Thing is, and I called and checked this out with the National Merit corporation, it does not matter where you live when the results come out or when you graduate, it matters where you were when you took the test. So, if we had our child take the PSAT while we are still in SD (plan our trip that year so we are there on those dates) and use our address up there at the time, even if we change the address over to our Texas address the very next week, he would end up NMSF if he makes the lower numbers that SD requires. I am beginning to think that we should do this if we still have our place in SD when the time comes. Is this nuts? Or just a very good idea? (we actually might not have our place in TX by then as DH is eager to sell our house here and live there permanently, but I am not sure I want to be in SD all winter and if anything happens to DH's job, employment is better down here). I'm sorry that happened! Did you doublecheck on the score? According to a table posted here, my kid missed the state cutoff, barely. But then she received a certificate from the Collegeboard that she indeed made the cutoff. I didn't know what to think about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 We don't go there for only a week. Our oldest is in public school. So we went there when she got out and returned to Texas a week before school started. We wanted to spend the fall there this year, but with oldest in school, we could not. Plus, we stay with my grandmother, who comes here to stay by end of October. Forums are great because you can explain things, but college applications have a one shot method and being able to explain won't be likely. Instead a school will just turn someone down if they feel they either being unethical or gaming the system. Remember that although you might not think the system is fair, most college admissions officer probably are okay with it and may even endorse the way it works. If you are willing to be very transparent on the application, you might could consider this, but even then I think some colleges might not consider a student participating in this kind of manipulation within the system. Further, there's another player in considering all this, that's your children. Like it or not even bright, mature teenagers don't always understand what adults are doing in these sorts of complicated situations. To me the risk of convey a wrong message to them no matter how much I explained to them would be something to consider as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 If the transcript indicates that he was registered for school and taking classes in TX this year, then SD in the fall, then TX in the Spring, that's not a problem with my university for scholarships at all. We're on the TN side, but MS and AR are very, very close, and it's very common for entering students to have multiple transfers, some mid-year, because that can happen for a reason like "we were renting an apartment, and found a house we could afford to buy"-and said house just happened to be over the state line and therefore, required transferring to a school in a different state. Add a good sized Naval base, and you see a lot of kids at the state U I used to work at with transcripts spanning multiple states in a year, and sometimes involving moving back and forth (move to a new base, dad is deployed, mom moves the kids to where her family is so she has some support, then moves back when Dad comes home). Usually families with high school kids try to move less, but it does happen-we accepted one student who ended up going back for all State orchestra at a state not one but two moves removed -he'd crossed two state lines between auditions and the actual event date, transferring schools twice. However, if you don't have that paper trail, it might be more questioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 You were given wrong information. What matters is your state of residence when your student takes the test. He or she will put the homeschooling code for the home state, not the state where the test is taken. Your home address will be on the form. There is no place on the form that states where the test was actually taken, as far as I know. Regardless, one of my kids took the PSAT in California her Junior year. We were there for a month because of my husband's job. Her scores came to our house with the Arizona selection index. She scored National Merit. I don't think the people at college board or NMSQT understand homeschoolers as a general rule. ETA: I just reread your post. If you are saying you have an actual residence in the other state, then yes I think it would be reasonable to use that residence if it would be beneficial to so so. In the case of divorced parents, the homeschooled child would have a choice of states. Also, residency requirements are a little more fluid for college admissions in that case. The kids and I split our time between AZ and IL while my husband has an apartment in Chicago full time, so I'm finding the red tape can be a little weird to navigate sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I just wonder how easy it will be to get a school to allow you take it if you do not live in their district. Maybe a private school would allow this? We've found that public schools are a pain in the butt, regardless of district status. Private schools are a lot more open. I also find we're more likely to receive a response if we start making initial contact in late summer a week or so before school starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 If you are paying taxes on a property you own in SD, then I personally would have no issue with it. Or a lease. Not that it matters whether we personally would have a problem with it :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I sympathize with the unfairness of the state cut offs. It far from ideal to set up a system this way. I'm wary of this and I would urge you to do more research before you put too much stock in what you were told on the phone. Will your student be registered as a homeschooler in SD or Texas? Not every state requires homeschoolers to register. Texas is one that doesn't. You just do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 One other example to consider how complex this can be... Students who attend boarding school out of their home state of residence are considered in a separate pool that usually has a high cut off. So, if the student is from Alabama but goes to a boarding school in Vermont, she would be subject to the East Coast boarding pool cutoff. Not to the state of Alabama where her parents live and own property. And, not in Vermont where she boards for high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Not every state requires homeschoolers to register. Texas is one that doesn't. You just do it. I believe SD does require annual registration though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Maybe. But that wasn't really something on the radar of NMSQT or the colleges we applied to. It just didn't occur to anyone to ask. Eta: Sorry Barbara, this was in response to your post. I don't know what I did to the quote box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 One other example to consider how complex this can be... Students who attend boarding school out of their home state of residence are considered in a separate pool that usually has a high cut off. So, if the student is from Alabama but goes to a boarding school in Vermont, she would be subject to the East Coast boarding pool cutoff. Not to the state of Alabama where her parents live and own property. And, not in Vermont where she boards for high school. You know, this is a good point. They really should be lumping homeschoolers together with their own code and possibly quite high cutoff. Shhhh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimtaxi234 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I just wonder how easy it will be to get a school to allow you take it if you do not live in their district. Maybe a private school would allow this? We had the opposite experience. The local private school refused to consider letting my daughter test with them (very snotty), but the local public school rep was very kind and willing to let my daughter test with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 You know, this is a good point. They really should be lumping homeschoolers together with their own code and possibly quite high cutoff. Shhhh! Shhhh is right. That cut off might be really high! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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