Seasider Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 "We have a lovely dead coyote that we found outside the store." Is lovely an adverb or an adjective? (And, gotta love LOF!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Is that the punctuation as written? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 It's describing coyote, so it's an adjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Lovely is never an adverb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara in Colo Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I think it is modifying the coyote--- adjective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Lovely is never an adverb. Can you explain why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Lovely is never an adverb. Yes, it is, when it modifies an adjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belacqua Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Adjectives ending in "ly" can mess with our brains. I still have to remind myself that "gingerly" is an adjective (and saying, "The pony moved in a gingerly manner" just sounds goofy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Can you explain why? Sorry, I didn't mean to be cryptic. Just that lovely is an adjective, according to the dictionary. ETA: However, see the discussion below! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 In theory, but can you think of a sentence using it that way? I can't.... I'm trying.... If you are describing a color... It's a lovely red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Yes, it is, when it modifies an adjective. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lovely?s=t Well if you look at the definition it explains it's use as an adverb. So apparently it can be used as an adverb. Oh, how interesting! My dictionaries do not show that usage. I checked three, and none list an adjective entry. The link Wendy gives does list it as non-standard. Perhaps it is used that way regionally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Motherly, friendly, lonely, neighborly-there are plenty of -ly adjectives. Not every word that ends in -ly is an adverb. Oh, how interesting! My dictionaries do not show that usage. I checked three, and none list an adjective entry. The link Wendy gives does list it as non-standard. Perhaps it is used that way regionally? I can't think of a way in which you would use "lovely" as an adverb *and* be speaking correctly. It's useful to remember that the dictionary is *descriptive*. It describes the way in which people speak. That's why the dictionary lists "irregardless" as a word, even though it is nonsense and is widely considered improper. That's why the entry lists the adverb as non-standard. Someone might say "she dances lovely" instead of "she dances in a lovely way." They'd be using it (incorrectly) as an adverb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 If you are describing a color... It's a lovely red. Yes, that is true, but I still think incorrectly using lovely as an adverb is more common than using it correctly as an adverb. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 If you are describing a color... It's a lovely red. Isn't "red" a noun in this context? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 I think it's the double descriptor that throws me off (lovely + dead). It's a lovely coyote. Adjective. It's a dead coyote. Adjective. I keep having the Shurley diagnostic running through my head: What kind of coyote? A dead coyote. How was he dead? In a lovely way. Hahaha! Nonsense, but it sounds believable, especially if you find yotes troublesome in your area and haven't used Shurley grammar in a decade! DD8 declared it an adjective. I think she's correct but we're away from our grammar books at the moment. Thanks for the input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Not necessarily. What color is it? It is a lovely red. red modifies it lovely doesn't describe it, lovely describes the red I agree with genscharm that "red" is a noun. The article "a" must be followed by a noun. It is a lovely turtle. It is a lovely dance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 If you are describing a color... It's a lovely red. In that sentence, red is acting as a noun. (What wine are you drinking? It's a lovely red.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 It is lovely red. I think one could say that. Sure, you could say it, but it would be nonstandard English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Sorry, I didn't mean to be cryptic. Just that lovely is an adjective, according to the dictionary. ETA: However, see the discussion below! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 It is lovely red. I think one could say that. As in "It is beautifully red"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Hmm...I think I needed caffeine *before* embarking on this grammar journey. I have to agree that red is acting as a noun in unsinkable's sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Crown Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 It's easier to see that red is a noun in "It's a lovely red" if you pluralize it: "In fact, it's many lovely reds, each darker than the last" or some such. Only nouns form plurals with the signal -s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 "It's a lovely red" in answer to "what color is it?" has just left off the noun, color. It's a lovely red color. I still think lovely is acting like an adverb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Crown Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 "It's a lovely red" in answer to "what color is it?" has just left off the noun, color. It's a lovely red color. I still think lovely is acting like an adverb. In the right light, it's many lovely reds colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 In the right light, it's many lovely reds colors. You lost me, LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 In starting to think that we are trying to apply formal grammar rules to colloquial speech. I'm going to have to think on this more. I'm intrigued about the missing/implied words affecting the classification of other words in my original sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFG Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 It is a lovely red dress. The other dress is an unattractive red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 In starting to think that we are trying to apply formal grammar rules to colloquial speech. I'm going to have to think on this more. I'm intrigued about the missing/implied words affecting the classification of other words in my original sentence. Which is why Wendy's link listed it as a "non-standard" usage. Non-standard usually = colloquial. I don't think lovely is supposed to modify dead in your original sentence. Lovely is modifying the coyote, therefore it is an adjective. Like I said above, there are many adjectives that end with -ly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyJo Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I think that in this sentence... It's a lovely red color. ...lovely and red are both adjectives that modify "color." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFG Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 That's a lovely bird in your avatar. Aren't we all feeling lovely tonight? LOL Your cat is lovely also. (In this sentence lovely is a predicate adjective. Score!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 She dressed lovelily in a lovely red dress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 "It's a lovely red" in answer to "what color is it?" has just left off the noun, color. It's a lovely red color. I still think lovely is acting like an adverb. In "the carpet is a hideous orange color," do you think hideous is an adverb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 In "the carpet is a hideous orange color," is hideous is an adverb? I was thinking: It's a dark red dress. What is dark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyJo Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Now, let's diagram them all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 In "the carpet is a hideous orange color," do you think hideous is an adverb? No, but I think that the carpet is a hideously orange color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 No, but I think that the carpet is a hideously orange color. Would you think the dress was a beautifully red color? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 No, but I think that the carpet is a hideously orange color. Can it be a prettily orange color? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Can I be a part of a socratically annoying dialogue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOrchidSong Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 If you are describing a color... It's a lovely red. In your sentence, red is used as a noun, so lovely is still an adjective. The article "a" is a noun marker. You will be looking for a noun somewhere after you see the word "a". In this case, that noun is "red". There you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Texican Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Could you be telling the dead coyote that we have a lovely? If so then lovely's a noun and that we found outside the store's the adverbial phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Oh see I think it could be either one. Is the shade of red lovely, or is the color lovely? Tricky. I think it could be both. This is why I hate grammar and think math is better. If there is a rule it should make sense damn it. LOL But, in either case, "lovely" is modifying the noun, right? It is a lovely color. It is a lovely shade of the color. I still see "lovely" as an adjective in either construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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