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[JumpyTheFrog]

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[DragonFaerie]

My DS is 10 and he still does this sometimes.  DD11 does, too.  Usually they lie to avoid having to do something they don't want to do.  "Did you brush your teeth?"  "Uh huh, yep" as their yellow teeth and gross breath are suffocating me.  I, too, would love to know when it stops.

[FriedClams]

Deleted.

[Carrie12345]

Don't provide extra opportunities to lie. If you know they did or did not do something, asking them just sets them up to do whatever they can to avoid punishment. Deal with the thing they did or didn't do, without adding lying to the offense just for the sake of adding it.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Don't provide extra opportunities to lie. If you know they did or did not do something, asking them just sets them up to do whatever they can to avoid punishment. Deal with the thing they did or didn't do, without adding lying to the offense just for the sake of adding it.

 

[jewellsmommy]

Disclaimer: My ds is on the extreme side because he has problems. But I will give some input anyway. Just know that our case may be quite different from yours.

 

 

Ds still does this. He will just walk up to me and straight out lie for the heck of it. :glare:  Ds just turned 10. I firmly believe in not asking what you already know. Sometimes though, you do have to ask questions  because you aren't sure what the answer is.

For example, a couple of months ago, he walks into the kitchen and tells me, "I have $5 now because the last time we were at the store, I found $2!" I say, "We haven't been to the store this week, what are you talking about?." He shows me 5 1-dollar bills and says "See." Now I know for a fact that he did not have that much money, but I honestly did not know where he had gotten it. So here I said, "ds name, I know that you did not have that much. You have not been given any more money recently and you have not earned it and you certainly did not find  $2 the last time we were at the store."  He has his usual comeback, "How do you know, you're not me." I just say, "Because I know a lie when I hear one." I sent him to his room until he could tell me where he got it. I realized that he had been at my mom's house earlier that day, but only for a couple of minutes as we picked up dd. So, I called my mom and sure enough, she was missing some money that had been in a little chest on her desk. So I went to him and told him I knew where he had gotten it, that it was stealing and was wrong..... And we dealt with it from there.

 

The funny thing is that in his efforts to cover his tracks, he outed himself. If he had been quiet about it and waited a while, he probably would have gotten away with it. That is what bothers me. When I am confronting him, I try to be cautious about not laying out evidence for how I know he is lying. Does that make sense? He usually tries to bait me into telling him how I know I'm right. For instance I won't tell him that I know he didn't brush his teeth because the sink is too clean and the toothbrush is dry. I used to make that mistake and I noticed that now he tries to think like me and cover his evidence. Now, I just say "I know that you did not brush your teeth, Go do it now while I am standing here."  He will argue it, at that point I start enacting our discipline which is removing a wolf. (He starts each day with 5 and they correspond to privileges etc)

 

I don't know if this is the type of thing your talking about. But however you handle it, you and your dh should go by the same playbook. If not, your son might learn how to play you guys off of each other.
 

[Miss Mousie]

 Things with this child (other than the lying) are sloooooooowly improving, but he's always been so difficult that I don't think DH can even see that any progress has been made. It's getting to the point where DH is starting to talk like DS is just a bad apple.

 

Just to address this point:  I try hard to remember to "look for what I can't see" - that is, irritating things DS used to do frequently that he has finally stopped doing.  It's hard to notice improvements when the improvement is that X doesn't happen anymore, you know? 

 

So I will think back to things I used to correct DS about daily, like, say, sneaking snacks, and I'll realize he hasn't done that in a long time.  So I will compliment him and I will point it out to DH, too, because he's even worse than I am about keeping track of these things (lol).

[Dandelion]

 It's getting to the point where DH is starting to talk like DS is just a bad apple.

 

I would be more concerned about your DH's mindset, than your DS's lying.  At times, my DH has had a similar attitude towards our DS10.  IME kids will pick up on a parent's negative attitude towards them, and it can often make things worse.  The image that a parent holds of their child can often become a self-fulfilling prophecy.  

 

We've dealt with lying here too.  Haven't eliminated it altogether yet, but it's become less frequent.  What has helped us:

- clearly communicating that lying upsets us more than whatever issue the child is lying about

- praising the child for telling the truth in difficult situations

- not giving attention to silly lies (when it's clear the child is just lying to get a reaction/attention)

- telling the child what you already know instead of asking (as was already mentioned, don't set your child up for a potential lie)

- talking frequently about the problems lying can cause and the value of honesty (pick a time far removed from when your child has told a lie - don't have these conversations right after your DS has told a lie, or it will feel like a lecture)

 

I'm a firm believer that (1) all behavior is communication, and (2) all behavior meets a need, and will continue as long as that need is being met by the behavior.  In addition to the above, it's been helpful for us to think through the following: (1) what is DS is trying to communicate through his lies (e.g. "I'm scared of what will happen if I tell the truth", something else)? and (2) what need is being met by this lying (need for attention, even if it's negative attention; something else)?  If you can address the root cause of the lies, and shift things so that telling the truth brings greater rewards (and need fulfillment) than continued lying, you will make progress IME.  Of course, for some kids lying is a symptom of much bigger issues and this approach might not work.  But barring any major psychological issues, I believe it's a helpful way to look at, and deal with, lying. 

[JumpyTheFrog]

I would be more concerned about your DH's mindset, than your DS's lying.  At times, my DH has had a similar attitude towards our DS10.  IME kids will pick up on a parent's negative attitude towards them, and it can often make things worse.  The image that a parent holds of their child can often become a self-fulfilling prophecy.  

 

If your DH has improved in this area, what did either of you do that helped? I think DS is picking up on DH's negative attitude, but I can't seem to get through to DH about it.

 

I am going to start a s/o thread about this.

[Joanne]

I agree. I try to use this approach. DH, however, doesn't seem interested in trying it. The result is that he is starting to think of DS as just a constant liar.

 

Unfortunately, we spent our first four years of parenting at a church where Michael Pearl was seen as a parenting guru. This gave us both unreasonable expectations about children's behavior. I have managed to shed most of my old beliefs. He, however, still retains much of that mindset.

 

People emerging from the abusive dynamic of cultish following and parenting practices is "where" I started my career journey.

 

I think your son may be "more" in some way. I'm also concerned that at the intersection of changing parenting paradigms, your son is going to have his identity and self esteem impacted by Dad's growing and palpable perception of him.

 

I'd probably consider an ultimatum: get parenting help or I will separate you from parenting this child - in order to keep the child *emotionally* safe.

[Dandelion]

If your DH has improved in this area, what did either of you do that helped? I think DS is picking up on DH's negative attitude, but I can't seem to get through to DH about it.

 

I am going to start a s/o thread about this.

 

Just responded to this in your new thread.

[MollyAnn]

Deleted

[Tammyla]

I think  your time would be better spent by focusing more on your dh for a while. 

 

Simply using one extra word Why in front of Did is not that hard to change when speaking to a child.

 

 

Example of this...

 

Did why did you just kick blank? 

Why did you just kick blank?

 

I think some good discussions with your dh about how he can see in your ds that his parenting style is not working, and why a little give on his part would go a long way in raising a happy, healthy kid is worth the effort. 

 

I hope this reads a gentle; tone is so hard on-line.

[SKL]

Just disciplined a little girl (7 in October) for telling several lies today.  Senseless ones.  She isn't usually a liar, so I really don't know what's up.  Maybe she is stressed out about something.  I shall see if I can get it out of her.

 

Kids just don't make sense sometimes.

[tabinfl]

My son tells lies absolutely effortlessly. He goes from telling us something about his day right into a crazy story about something that could not possibly have happened, Oddly, it's rarely about avoiding trouble, usually just casual conversation.

 

I stop him when I realize it's happening and ask, "Did this really happen or are you telling a story?" He almost always fesses up, and I remind him that he is allowed to tell stories only if he says that's what he's doing first. He has started announcing it once in a while, so I have hope.

[SKL]

And to think that I saw it on Mulberry Street!  :)

[MomatHWTK]

:laugh: