Chemistry costs...egads

[BakersDozen]

Just spent hours researching different sites trying to find the best price for materials/equipment. We're doing Chemistry "light" and yet even with that the total amount I just shelled out is enough to make me feel ill. Yes, much of it is non-consumable but good grief, this is painful! I didn't even indulge in all the fun kits I saw on-line, just stuck to the basics.

 

Oh, and I am NOT impressed with The Home Scientist kit that is supposed to go with the Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry! I had to track down quite a few things that were for the most basic labs suggested in the book.

 

Off to fight sticker shock...

[PeterPan]

Doesn't the kit for the IG key to a different set of labs?  

 

 

[BakersDozen]

All I know is that The Home Scientist was the one recommended for IGHC. So I thought, hooray, this should be easy-peasy. HA! All I scheduled were the basic 15 or so labs recommended in IGHC and just spent, well, a BUNCH of $ on materials that HS did not have, both consumable and non-consumable. Oh well. I found everything I needed, just might have to start panhandling or something after this.

 

Before I ordered anything I went back to Spectrum and wondered if it wouldn't be better to just order their package (which cost about half of what I spent). Now I'm second-guessing myself...of course. sigh Oh well. It's done, on we go, fingers crossed that this GPB/IGHC thing was the right choice.

[wingedradical]

I went with the Spectrum partly because I wanted predictability and ease (we'll also be watching the classes on Khan Academy) but really, I'm quite ignorant about it all. What is GPB?

 

I also bought the Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiment because I have a feeling The Spectrum is not going to have complicated enough experiments to make my student happy. I haven't told her that yet - maybe I should hold off on telling her. /-:

[8filltheheart]

I went with the Spectrum partly because I wanted predictability and ease (we'll also be watching the classes on Khan Academy) but really, I'm quite ignorant about it all. What is GPB?

 

I also bought the Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiment because I have a feeling The Spectrum is not going to have complicated enough experiments to make my student happy. I haven't told her that yet - maybe I should hold off on telling her. /-:

I don't know what you are expecting from labs, but Spectrum labs are by far the best chem labs I have seen, They certainly surpassed the AP chem labs ds did. I have nothing but praise for the quality of the labs.

 

OP I wish you had asked about which way to purchase. I would definitely have suggested Spectrum. I have purchased multiple chem sets over the yrs for my high schoolers, and Spectrum is all I will purchase from now on except for the required AP courses labs bc I don't teach that course myself and useChemAdvantage. I know people that only use Spectrum for AP as well.

[elegantlion]

Just spent hours researching different sites trying to find the best price for materials/equipment. We're doing Chemistry "light" and yet even with that the total amount I just shelled out is enough to make me feel ill. Yes, much of it is non-consumable but good grief, this is painful! I didn't even indulge in all the fun kits I saw on-line, just stuck to the basics.

 

Oh, and I am NOT impressed with The Home Scientist kit that is supposed to go with the Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry! I had to track down quite a few things that were for the most basic labs suggested in the book.

 

Off to fight sticker shock...

 

I'm curious which kit and lab book you considered. The kits listed here come with their own lab book from what I understand. 

 

If I were planning a light year, I would have simply gone with one of the kits. This basic one comes with everything for 131.00. So, I'm curious what you did end up buying and why you opted to not go with one of these.

[klmama]

8FillTheHeart, is the Spectrum textbook needed to do the labs properly or would it work to align them with another text?  

 

 

 

 

[JanetC]

8FillTheHeart, is the Spectrum textbook needed to do the labs properly or would it work to align them with another text?

We just did spectrum. Overall, I would say it would be hard to do them with a different curriculum. The only thing in the text is an appendix of laboratory techniques, and the rest is in the lab book. But beyond that minimal dependency, the labs are tightly integrated with the text and the teachers manual, and you would probably want to use them all together and in order to get the true benefit.

[BakersDozen]

elegantlion - I bought a kit from that site as it did provide a lot of the materials needed, yet I still had to track down a lot of other stuff just to complete the 15 basic labs recommended in IGHC. I read the description wrong and thought if the IGHC author's name was on the site that the materials in the kit would at least cover the labs he recommended. Did that make any sense at all? Live and learn, I guess.

 

I will use Spectrum next year if my 14yod wants to pursue Chemistry further. I balked from Spectrum because of what I had read about lab intensity as well as a lack of knowing how long the labs might take. At least if we do Spectrum I will have a bunch of non-consumable items! And that is really what drove the cost up. The balance recommended in IGHC was over $100 alone. I'd say 2/3 or so of what I bought I can use again, thank goodness.

[elegantlion]

elegantlion - I bought a kit from that site as it did provide a lot of the materials needed, yet I still had to track down a lot of other stuff just to complete the 15 basic labs recommended in IGHC. I read the description wrong and thought if the IGHC author's name was on the site that the materials in the kit would at least cover the labs he recommended. Did that make any sense at all? Live and learn, I guess.

 

 

 

He used to post here. If I remember correctly, he said if you buy the kit you can use the free pdf downloadable manual that comes with it. Then you don't need to buy the Illustrated Guide. But if you choose the labs from the Illustrated guide, then you'll need more than the kit provides. 

 

Sorry, I'm trying to work on my budget for next year and wondered if I was remembering correctly. 

[Julie of KY]

Oh, and I am NOT impressed with The Home Scientist kit that is supposed to go with the Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry! I had to track down quite a few things that were for the most basic labs suggested in the book.

By the way, the kits that are sold by the Home Scientist go with his small scale labs that are based on the book Illustrated Guide, but are very different. Illustrated Guide uses chemicals in much greater quantities and the BOOK is not compatible with the kits.

 

... love the book Illustrated Guide, teach it to groups. It's very expensive to do for one child. Feel free to pm me if you have questions about the book.

[BakersDozen]

" If I remember correctly, he said if you buy the kit you can use the free pdf downloadable manual that comes with it. Then you don't need to buy the Illustrated Guide. But if you choose the labs from the Illustrated guide, then you'll need more than the kit provides. "

 

Yeah, I figured that out too late. :) At least I have some way cool stuff coming in the mail! Definitely have to skip 2 of the basic IGHC labs because I couldn't find materials or wasn't willing to shell out more $.

[Dicentra]

Crud, OP - sorry you had to spend so much money!

 

I had written this in post #5 of the pinned chem thread:

 

*The Home Scientist sells a Honours Chem Lab kit with lab manual that can be correlated to many different chem programs (the lab manual is free to download even if you don't purchase the kit)

http://www.thehomesc.../ck01-main.html

He also sells a simplified and less expensive version of the kit meant for Standard (or Regular) Chemistry which also has a free, downloadable lab manual:

http://www.thehomesc...ck01b-main.html

NOTE: The free lab manual that comes with this kit is NOT the same as the Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments (by the same author). This kit (and the free lab manual) will give a lab component for a first-year high school chemistry course. The Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments (which can be purchased through Amazon) is meant to give the equivalent of the lab component for a two-year high school chemistry course and would require more equipment and chemicals than are included in this kit.

 

Just to clarify things if anyone else is wondering about The Home Scientist kits and book.  There's so much out there that it can be confusing and overwhelming to sift through and figure out what's needed.

 

I feel this way about all of the choices for high school language arts!! :svengo: :D

[wingedradical]

I don't know what you are expecting from labs, but Spectrum labs are by far the best chem labs I have seen, They certainly surpassed the AP chem labs ds did. I have nothing but praise for the quality of the labs.

 

OP I wish you had asked about which way to purchase. I would definitely have suggested Spectrum. I have purchased multiple chem sets over the yrs for my high schoolers, and Spectrum is all I will purchase from now on except for the required AP courses labs bc I don't teach that course myself and useChemAdvantage. I know people that only use Spectrum for AP as well.

 

Oh, this is so good to hear! When I ordered it, I really thought it was the right one for us.  We are Christian but not YE so I was afraid Apologia would push that too much. I considered doing what so many others here are doing and put it all together on my own but I was 1)afraid the cost would get out of hand and 2)afraid I'd fall down on the job because I have some health problems.

 

I hadn't thought much of doing AP -- I just thought it sounded too hard for me (not her) so I wouldn't. Do you have to get that okayed before hand? Who do you talk to? And would you mind telling me what you would add to Spectrum if I wanted to make it definitely AP?

 

DFD went to publics school for 2 months last year and was taking AP Chemistry then. But because of many problems and adjustments with coming to us, and because I had to get her out of school and didn't know anything about what options were out there, we put chemistry off until this year. She'd already had biology so we did Earth & Space science - it was gimme class for her - she knew most of it and didn't have to work too hard but we had a year of lots of doctor's appointments, a hospital stay and more, so it was a good choice.

 

We got our stuff from Spectrum a month or more ago but I hadn't told her and had opened it when she was out. Then I packed it away again. She found it today and was so excited going through it! So, I thought maybe I should have gotten something more rigorous.

 

Where did you do the experiments? I have a large laundry room with counters I considered using. There is also a laundry sink in there. The floor is tile, as are the counters. My concern in ventilation. There is a window but it is across the room. I could set up a fan of some sort. Do you think that would be adequate?

 

I didn't take chemistry in high school I took a class called "Nursing Chemistry" when I attended nursing school (3 years back then). I am pretty sure it wasn't a full course but more than sufficient for nursing. We did most labs in the class and a couple of things in a safe room.

[8filltheheart]

Oh, this is so good to hear! When I ordered it, I really thought it was the right one for us.  We are Christian but not YE so I was afraid Apologia would push that too much. I considered doing what so many others here are doing and put it all together on my own but I was 1)afraid the cost would get out of hand and 2)afraid I'd fall down on the job because I have some health problems.

 

I hadn't thought much of doing AP -- I just thought it sounded too hard for me (not her) so I wouldn't. Do you have to get that okayed before hand? Who do you talk to? And would you mind telling me what you would add to Spectrum if I wanted to make it definitely AP?

 

DFD went to publics school for 2 months last year and was taking AP Chemistry then. But because of many problems and adjustments with coming to us, and because I had to get her out of school and didn't know anything about what options were out there, we put chemistry off until this year. She'd already had biology so we did Earth & Space science - it was gimme class for her - she knew most of it and didn't have to work too hard but we had a year of lots of doctor's appointments, a hospital stay and more, so it was a good choice.

 

We got our stuff from Spectrum a month or more ago but I hadn't told her and had opened it when she was out. Then I packed it away again. She found it today and was so excited going through it! So, I thought maybe I should have gotten something more rigorous.

 

Where did you do the experiments? I have a large laundry room with counters I considered using. There is also a laundry sink in there. The floor is tile, as are the counters. My concern in ventilation. There is a window but it is across the room. I could set up a fan of some sort. Do you think that would be adequate?

 

I didn't take chemistry in high school I took a class called "Nursing Chemistry" when I attended nursing school (3 years back then). I am pretty sure it wasn't a full course but more than sufficient for nursing. We did most labs in the class and a couple of things in a safe room.

 

I think you misunderstood my post.   Spectrum chemistry is definitely not enough for the AP exam.   I was simply saying that I know someone who used the labs for the course.

 

The AP chem exam, I think, is changing for this upcoming school yr.   I really don't know enough about it to comment on what you would need to do to make it AP equivalent.    If she has already taken chemistry (which I would think she probably did b/c she was in AP in the high school), Spectrum's text is going to be below her needs.   It is an introductory course.   My ds took Spectrum's course and then enrolled in an AP course online (through PA Homeschoolers).   The text that course used was Chang's.  Here is a link to ChemAdvantage's AP course homepage.   There are links to his syllabus and textbook, etc so you can see what he is using.  http://www.chemadvantage.com/public_site/ap_chemistry/

 

[wingedradical]

<<I think you misunderstood my post.   Spectrum chemistry is definitely not enough for the AP exam.   I was simply saying that I know someone who used the labs for the course.>>

 

Oops. I read that late last night, I think, and misread and got carried away.

 

And now that I think of it, it wasn't AP she was in - it was dual enrollment, but only with the community college. She has not previously had chemistry (except for her two months). But she is very much a science/math person. She had skipped a year of math, for example and been in science clubs. And from what I hear, if she does a science major in college, a community college credit isn't always a good idea. So, I'm still happy. Maybe we could have avoided a class at university if I'd gone with AP, but she is still trying to get over many issues about her past and that is taking quite a lot of intervention which takes time. So my first inclination, which was to just do regular chemistry, is probably the right one. 

[wingedradical]

triple post, sorry

[wingedradical]

oops triple post

[wingedradical]

triple post sorry

[dovrar]

 

Crud, OP - sorry you had to spend so much money!

 

I had written this in post #5 of the pinned chem thread:

 

*The Home Scientist sells a Honours Chem Lab kit with lab manual that can be correlated to many different chem programs (the lab manual is free to download even if you don't purchase the kit)

http://www.thehomesc.../ck01-main.html

He also sells a simplified and less expensive version of the kit meant for Standard (or Regular) Chemistry which also has a free, downloadable lab manual:

http://www.thehomesc...ck01b-main.html

NOTE: The free lab manual that comes with this kit is NOT the same as the Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments (by the same author). This kit (and the free lab manual) will give a lab component for a first-year high school chemistry course. The Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments (which can be purchased through Amazon) is meant to give the equivalent of the lab component for a two-year high school chemistry course and would require more equipment and chemicals than are included in this kit.

 

Just to clarify things if anyone else is wondering about The Home Scientist kits and book.  There's so much out there that it can be confusing and overwhelming to sift through and figure out what's needed.

 

I feel this way about all of the choices for high school language arts!! :svengo:

 

 

 

Just FYI, the links to the lab manuals aren't working.

[klmama]

Just FYI, the links to the lab manuals aren't working.

 

Here, try these: 

 

http://www.thehomescientist.com/kits/CK01/ck01-main.html

 

http://www.thehomescientist.com/kits/CK01B/ck01b-main.html

[Dicentra]

So sorry about that, dovrar!  I think when I copied and pasted, the links got messed up.  Thank you to klmama for providing the correct ones. :)

[swimmermom3]

Hindsight is a lovely thing. OP, I am sorry about your experience; it it is any consolation, it's a bit like mine. At least in your case, you will be able to perform the experiments in the Illustrated Guide even if it costs more than you anticipated.

 

I am in the unenviable position of having lab equipment, but no chemicals. At this point, it is unlikely that my order will be here before school starts, even though it was placed at the end of May. In fact, I am not sure if I will ever receive it. I will probably end up ordering the same kit you ordered and just follow the experiments in the pfd even though it will be redundant on the equipment end.

 

For those of you that want a solid, complete program that holds your hand, go with Spectrum. We enjoyed the chemistry portion of Rainbow, I just wanted a bit more for high school.

 

If your budget is tight, Zumdahl's 5th edition of his very good Introductory book is cheap on Amazon and you can pick up the CK01B Standard kit for $131. So count on somewhere around $150-$160 for a basic chemistry class at home that won't make you crazy trying to put everything together.

 

For those of you still "committed" to putting it together on your own, may I suggest investing in a distillery instead? :tongue_smilie:

[Dicentra]

Hindsight is a lovely thing. OP, I am sorry about your experience; it it is any consolation, it's a bit like mine. At least in your case, you will be able to perform the experiments in the Illustrated Guide even if it costs more than you anticipated.

 

I am in the unenviable position of having lab equipment, but no chemicals. At this point, it is unlikely that my order will be here before school starts, even though it was placed at the end of May. In fact, I am not sure if I will ever receive it. I will probably end up ordering the same kit you ordered and just follow the experiments in the pfd even though it will be redundant on the equipment end.

 

For those of you that want a solid, complete program that holds your hand, go with Spectrum. We enjoyed the chemistry portion of Rainbow, I just wanted a bit more for high school.

 

If your budget is tight, Zumdahl's 5th edition of his very good Introductory book is cheap on Amazon and you can pick up the CK01B Standard kit for $131. So count on somewhere around $150-$160 for a basic chemistry class at home that won't make you crazy trying to put everything together.

 

For those of you still "committed" to putting it together on your own, may I suggest investing in a distillery instead? :tongue_smilie:

 Just curious, SM3...  Couldn't you cancel your order with Elemental Scientific and place a new one with Home Science Tools?  Did you go with Elemental because they had things that HST didn't offer?  Or was it a price thing?  Or something else?

 

Hmmm...  A home distillery...  My dh is in if we can produce some decent single malt scotch. :)

[swimmermom3]

 Just curious, SM3...  Couldn't you cancel your order with Elemental Scientific and place a new one with Home Science Tools?  Did you go with Elemental because they had things that HST didn't offer?  Or was it a price thing?  Or something else?

 

Hmmm...  A home distillery...  My dh is in if we can produce some decent single malt scotch. :)

 

 

 

It's a price thing:                                             ES                                                    HST

 

Acetic Acid, glacial - 100mL                        $2.90                                                $12.00 (3 - 30mL bottles) for 90mL

Amonium Acetate Crystal - 25g                   $2.00                                                Unavailable

Ammonium Chloride         -25g                    $2.00                                                   $3. 25 (30g)

Copper Sulfate                 250g                    $9.00                                                 $11.00 (80g)

 

Elemental Scientific told me that they did not assemble the kits and that stuff comes from China and India, but when I asked if I could cancel the kit and just order the items individually which are in their online catalog, they told me it would take just as long. :confused:

 

Thompson talks about utilizing smaller amounts of chemicals if you need to, but then I probably should have ordered a microchem kit to begin with in that case, right?

 

Single malt scotch? Oh yes!

                                   

[Julie of KY]

Lisa,

What horrible service from ES. Have you asked if they can send what they have and send the back ordered things later? I try to order only once per year from them, but often twice per year. That have always sent what they have and a small amount is sometimes back ordered up to 3 months.

Hope you get your chemicals soon.

[Nancy in NH]

I don't know what you are expecting from labs, but Spectrum labs are by far the best chem labs I have seen, They certainly surpassed the AP chem labs ds did. I have nothing but praise for the quality of the labs.

 

OP I wish you had asked about which way to purchase. I would definitely have suggested Spectrum. I have purchased multiple chem sets over the yrs for my high schoolers, and Spectrum is all I will purchase from now on except for the required AP courses labs bc I don't teach that course myself and useChemAdvantage. I know people that only use Spectrum for AP as well.

 

My son used Spectrum this past year and we loved it, and as mentioned above, we found the labs to be excellent.  I have a friend who is a chemist look over the lab manual, and she thought it was comprehensive and challenging, noting there were a few labs she would not expect to see in a typical high school chem class (in other words, probably more on par with a lab in an AP class).

 

Nancy in NH

[Dicentra]

It's a price thing:                                             ES                                                    HST

 

Acetic Acid, glacial - 100mL                        $2.90                                                $12.00 (3 - 30mL bottles) for 90mL

Amonium Acetate Crystal - 25g                   $2.00                                                Unavailable

Ammonium Chloride         -25g                    $2.00                                                   $3. 25 (30g)

Copper Sulfate                 250g                    $9.00                                                 $11.00 (80g)

 

Elemental Scientific told me that they did not assemble the kits and that stuff comes from China and India, but when I asked if I could cancel the kit and just order the items individually which are in their online catalog, they told me it would take just as long. :confused:

 

Thompson talks about utilizing smaller amounts of chemicals if you need to, but then I probably should have ordered a microchem kit to begin with in that case, right?

 

Single malt scotch? Oh yes!

                                   

 

The price thing is annoying. :(  If you're desperate, go to your local pharmacy and ask the pharmacist if he/she can order in some chemicals for you.  You might end up with larger containers than you wanted, though.  Something to try for those who can't get certain chemicals any other way.

[Dicentra]

You could actually make a solution of ammonium acetate by using ammonia and vinegar (acetic acid).  You could then evaporate the water and you'd have relatively pure ammonium acetate crystals left.  You'd have to make sure you started with pure ammonia and acetic acid, though.  (i.e. You can't use balsamic vinegar or anything other than white vinegar or plain pickling vinegar and you can't use a household cleaner with ammonia in it - it has to be straight ammonia.)  If you want to go this route, let me know and I can give you more detailed instructions. :)

[Mom22ns]

Be sure to read the labs before you order supplies. He gives alternate sources for some of the chemicals, and some (such as copper sulfate) are actually taken from an impure source, purified in an early lab then your own purified material used in a later lab. I got my Copper Sulfate at the hardware store.

[swimmermom3]

Be sure to read the labs before you order supplies. He gives alternate sources for some of the chemicals, and some (such as copper sulfate) are actually taken from an impure source, purified in an early lab then your own purified material used in a later lab. I got my Copper Sulfate at the hardware store.

 

Thanks for bringing this up. Thompson actually had an article in Make magazine that I found this afternoon, that covers alternative sources.  Now I just need to go and find the first two parts.