Crazy math idea....staggering for large family

[stm4him]

So right now I am teaching 4 math lessons and for various reasons I am teaching Saxon 3, 2, 1, and K. Math is the first thing to go a lot of times when our schedule is tight and so we are only on lesson 50 something (even less with my 4 year old). It takes me like 2 hours to get through all of this and this is so frustrating sometimes because it is just tedious. But I do love Saxon Math's methods and refuse to change programs. So here is a crazy idea I had today. What if my kids in book 3 and below got their lessons during the school year and only did fact drill in the summer and my kids in 3 Intermediate (yes, I plan to do both) to 7/6 do drill during the year and lessons during the summer? Now first let me define school year and summer. I consider our school year to be September through March and our summer to be from April through August (to match our CC year). Leigh Bortin's boys do math every.single.day. (even Sunday); she says it is like milking the cow....you don't skip days. So if we did that starting in April they could definitely get through their math book. The beauty of this is that during the school year I can focus on teaching my younger ones who have less subjects anyway and not have to worry about helping my older ones and then during the summer my little ones can just practice facts and my older ones can get my full attention while we have fewer subjects on our plate.

 

So I'm thinking I'm going to put my oldest in 3 Intermediate instead of the regular 3 and speed her through the book this summer. She is so far behind because of her learning disability, but now that her reading has caught up she is catching up in other subjects too. So during the school year in September I will just have her drill her facts and just do the regular 3 worksheets for review without needing to meet with me to teach a lesson. Then she will do 5/4 next April and speed through it. My son who is 8 will go ahead and finish 2 with this summer just because it is already too easy for him and doesn't take long to get through his lesson (he is behind b/c of maturity and a fine motor delay). Then in September he'll just drill math facts. In the summer I'll put him in the Intermediate book and then he'll do the regular level 3 sheets during the next year. My six year old and 4 year old I am dropping this summer but I will have my 6 year old drill math facts on the ipad. I will pick up with them in 1 and K where we left off in the fall and that way they will be the only two who I have to teach lessons to next year and will just have to check my oldest's worksheets. Then she can have my full attention this summer to help her get used to reading the text and figuring out the lesson, etc.

 

Do you think this is doable?

[kiana]

Wow, I really don't think this is a good idea.

 

If you are desperate to cut down your daily load, I would alternate days instead of alternating semesters. That way if something happens during summer (or winter) that makes school just not.get.done. you won't have a pair of kids missing an entire year's worth of math.

 

You could put one pair of kids on Mon, Wed, Fri and the other pair on Tues, Thurs, Sat. Then have everyone do fact drill on Sunday. Each pair of kids would get through (assuming you do NOT take a break) about 150 lessons per year that way. I just checked to make sure, and Saxon 3 had 140ish lessons. So you'd come in under the wire and make a year's progress in a year.

 

The other thing (looking at your signature) that you really, really need to do is look at your priorities. Reading (and I would guess for you, Bible) should come first, yes. But then math. Thinking skills, Greek, history, anything else NEEDS to be put behind math as a priority. They can catch up in history with a good survey of world and a good survey of US. It takes a lot more to catch up in math.

[T'smom]

I'm with kiana. I think alternating days might work, but I wouldn't put it on hold for that long.

[MyLittleWonders]

I agree with kiana. I don't think that is a good idea at all and that you should look at your priorities in terms of subjects. Here, religion, math, and literature are our top three subjects. On tight days, sick days (sick enough not to feel great but not sick enough to be in bed) we only do those three. If anything gets bumped of those three it is usually literature (read aloud). So, I would look at everything you are trying to do in a school day/week/year and prioritize them, drop what isn't necessary at this time, and then restructure your day.

 

I am currently only teaching math to three, but I also do daily "school" stuff with my dd (Down syndrome) which includes reading, math stuff, physical therapy stuff, etc. So, essentially I am schooling four. Maybe the programs we are using aren't as teacher-intensive as Saxon (I've never used it), but I give each kid a 15 minute lesson or so (a bit longer at times for ds11 who is doing PreAlgebra). While I work with one, the others might be doing something independent (their assignment if they already were given a lesson), typing, playing with their sister, etc. Our math/independent work block takes about 1 1/2. I make sure to start with one of the older two boys who need a full lesson. Ds6's math is still just open the workbook and discuss the topic/concept together while he works problems.

 

To me, math is a subject that needs almost daily input and not just drill/skill work. I know if we even do only four days a week for too long my boys start to get rusty. As it is, we continue to do math through our "summer break" just to make sure they don't forget key concepts. I don't think doing 6 months of instruction and 6 months of drill will help them build a strong math foundation to see them through the high school years.

[stm4him]

Hmmmm...alternating days might be the best.......

[Sebastian (a lady)]

If you are doing Saxon to what extent can you combine the meeting portion? Maybe right after breakfast everyone does calendars and meeting strips together. Then everyone who has a fact sheet does it at the same time.

 

You might have kids that could be combined. My oldest did Saxon together even though they were a grade apart.

 

You might declare a certain time to be math time and roll through a lesson with one kid while another does the fact sheet. Then teach the next lesson while the first kid does the worksheet and so on.

 

On the other hand two hours for four math lessons is pretty zippy.

[I.Dup.]

Well I was thinking your idea of staggering sounded cool, but I can see the points the other ladies made. My concern would be doing math EVERY day, really? And then suddenly taking several months off? That sounds odd. I don't think we could handle doing math every day for several months straight! Weekends are a nice little breather.

 

I would recommend getting your kids into subjects that can be more independently done. I am switching from Singapore next year because it's just too teacher intensive for me. I will be putting ds on the CLE math that dd has been doing, it's been working out really well.

 

That, and re-evaluate your priority subjects like the PP mentioned. Good luck! I can see how 2 hours of math instruction would get tiring.

[Incognito]

Well... I personally have taken a laid back approach to K/1 math. I don't think you need a lesson a day to understand numbers. I haven't seen Saxon K or 1, but we have Singapore 1A and 1B (don't do it systematically), and we read Life of Fred lazily and my kids are learning basic math. It isn't that we don't talk about #"s and I don't cover math concepts - I got some fun fact drill toys (wrap ups and the like) and we talk about #'s in the car a lot "hey - let's skip count by 2's" or "Mama, what is 40 plus 13?" (and I talk my thinking outloud... "four tens plus one ten is five tens, then three more... fifty three!").

 

So, I don't have graduated kids and I don't know what I'm missing, but I really doubt we'll have trouble when we get to grade 2 or 3 math with what we are doing.

 

I think you can let go of the 4yo (and 6yo) without any real worries. Invest in Monopoly Jr. and a deck of regular cards and make your older kids play with them at least once a week. Talk about clocks during your normal days. It comes together and it will give you more time to work with your older kids. JMO.

[hollyh]

Yeah, I wouldn't do it. Kids forget SOOO much just over the summer break of 2 months that PS teachers usually spend about 1.5 months reviewing what they were taught the previous year to get them up to speed! I even noticed my dd forgetting a ton just over Christmas break. Math is one of those subjects that they NEED to study almost daily and it is not one to fall behind on. If you can be consistent and alternate days I think that would be best- or have them do an online/video lessons. Those are my thoughts. :)

[AdventureMoms]

Sorry, wrong thread.

[boscopup]

You have 3 school aged kids, and I'm guessing the oldest isn't doing Saxon 3, so that means 2 school aged kids doing Saxon 3 and 2, and then the younger kids doing 1 and K? Why not just drop the 1 and K, since they're only ages 4 and 3? Include them in fact practice, but start them in "real math" when they're 5 (at whatever level they are at that point). They'll likely continue to learn math even without you teaching them via Saxon. I know my oldest did. We did a lot of oral math in the van, just discussing math, and he learned a lot more than what's in Saxon K (he did K and 1 in school and was well beyond them at that point).

 

By time your younger two are school aged, your 8 year old and possibly the 6 year old will be in the 5/4 and up books, and those are more independent, supposedly.

 

I agree with adjusting priorities. Do math first every school day, if you need to. Combine meeting/drill time as you're able, and don't do the meeting every day if they don't need it every day. Or maybe set them up on xtramath.org and let them do their drill there instead of you doing the drill. I just can't even imagine teaching Saxon K, 1, 2, and 3 all at the same time. I think I'd go insane. :lol: (ok, I'd go insane teaching just one of them, but teaching ANY highly teacher intensive curriculum like that 4 levels at once would cause my sanity to leave me :tongue_smilie:).

[kiana]

You have 3 school aged kids, and I'm guessing the oldest isn't doing Saxon 3, so that means 2 school aged kids doing Saxon 3 and 2, and then the younger kids doing 1 and K? Why not just drop the 1 and K, since they're only ages 4 and 3? Include them in fact practice, but start them in "real math" when they're 5 (at whatever level they are at that point). They'll likely continue to learn math even without you teaching them via Saxon. I know my oldest did. We did a lot of oral math in the van, just discussing math, and he learned a lot more than what's in Saxon K (he did K and 1 in school and was well beyond them at that point).

 

I believe it actually is the oldest doing Saxon 3, if I read correctly -- she says the oldest is behind because of a learning disability, but moving along now.

 

I would definitely agree with you about the 4 year old.

[boscopup]

I believe it actually is the oldest doing Saxon 3, if I read correctly -- she says the oldest is behind because of a learning disability, but moving along now.

 

I would definitely agree with you about the 4 year old.

 

In that case, I'd especially not take off any time from math, and I'd make it the first thing we do in the morning (after Bible).

[beaners]

Math is the first thing to go a lot of times when our schedule is tight and so we are only on lesson 50 something (even less with my 4 year old).

...

But I do love Saxon Math's methods and refuse to change programs.

 

 

Are you getting any benefit from those methods if you are skipping lessons all the time?

 

2 hours to complete 4 lessons doesn't sound that bad, but that's only if it's getting done. It sounds like you're trying to find a workable schedule now. If that doesn't work out, I wouldn't completely dismiss the idea of changing programs.

[Dmmetler]

I'd put the one doing Saxon K in the Morning meeting with the one doing Saxon 1, and generally drop Saxon K. It's very teacher intensive and time intensive and for the most part, it's trivial stuff that's going to be repeated anyway. Let the younger ones play with the manipulatives while the one in Saxon 1 does their worksheet, and see what happens.

 

FWIW, I have a very advanced kid when it comes to math, and math is the ONE subject I don't drop for any length of time. It just is too additive. It's also the one subject that I insist on finishing a book on before we take a break, because it's much easier to come back at the beginning of the book after even a week or two off, than in the middle of one.

[Mom0012]

I like the idea of alternating days. If you go year round, you should easily be able to finish your books. At what level does Saxon have dvds available to teach the material? If it is 5/4 or 7/6, and you used a program like CLE in the early years, it would take some of your time, but probably not nearly what it's taking you to do Saxon. Then you could switch back to Saxon and use the dvds so that everything is more manageable. My dd has been using CLE since 2nd grade. I used to spend a few minutes going over the new lesson with her, but she soon because almost completely independent in getting her work done. Next year, in 6th grade, she will be starting either Saxon 8/7 or 1/2 and using Art Reed's dvds. That will take her all the way through high school.

[Ravin]

Going year-round alternating days sounds to me like the way to go.

[wapiti]

If you alternate days, I'd wonder whether you might only make it through two-thirds of a level in an entire calendar year unless you also teach weekends. Before trying such an experiment, I'd literally schedule out the entire year on a spreadsheet to be sure it would work, including any breaks/days off, etc.

 

Two hours of teacher time for four students' math does not sound horrible to me (though I might consider how that is broken up amongst the students). Saxon is not known for brevity anyway. If you're committed to that program, I'd try to juggle some having the lesson while others are working exercises, though at some point it's just going to take time.

 

I'd look forward to some independence eventually with the older ones but only if there's no struggling going on. If there's struggling, I'd plan to sit with that student or otherwise be very available while that student is working. I'd guess that the hardest year(s) would be while they're all in elementary levels but while none are yet relatively independent. Good luck!!

[Mommy22alyns]

I would see about possibly combining. I like the idea of consolidating the meetings. Otherwise, yes, math needs to be a top 3 priority and basically never get skipped over.

[duckens]

One other thing about Saxon: they have evaluations/review lessons every 5 lessons.

 

When dd started Saxon Math 2, I had her do the oral reviews and the pages for review. If she scored well (better than 90%) we moved to the next review lesson. She was able to do this until we hit lesson 90 or so. I backtracked to lesson 60 because I knew there were a few topics in the 60s to which she had not been exposed, and started doing regular lessons at 70 (topics I KNEW she had not been exposed to!)

 

We still do the "easy pages" from prior to Lesson 70. It is good practice for dd6, and gives her confidence to read the directions for math and work independently. (For OP, these could be good pages to do independently on "off" days). In this way, dd will come close to completing Saxon 2 by June 1st. She is working at the level she is supposed to be at. And we have extra days off for museums, plays, and illness.

[FloridaLisa]

I don't think you're going to be able to teach the higher levels in 5 months (April - August) and I don't think it's a good idea to let them drill for the other 7 months. What is your core? What are you doing on those hard days when you pare school down to the core? For us, it has always been Bible, math and English. I know 2 hours seems like a lot, and seems tedious now and makes you ready for a break when you're done, but it's a huge investment that will pay dividends. The day in, day out of math is just so important. It really can't be squished into one semester on, one semester off. In fact, you probably will find that you are re-teaching so much even with the drill b/c of the significant time off.

 

If you want to lighten your math load right now, I would set Saxon K aside and use that time to play math games, use manipulatives, play with money, 100 charts, count forwards and back, skip count and the like with your Ker. Then start in with Saxon 1 next year. I always started my dc with Saxon 1 in K because, really, it starts at the beginning.

 

HTH,

Lisa

[stm4him]

Thanks, everyone, for your posts. I think I was just having a hard time after a new baby and spring fever, etc. For the rest of the spring/summer we are making reading (including their literature list), vocabulary, writing, a little bit of spelling, and math the priority to finish up and the rest we'll treat as review or icing (like SOTW and science unit studies). My oldest switched to 3 Intermediate and it is taking less of my time. The boy's lessons also take less time because we don't do the meeting together. They do their meeting strips mostly alone and I just check it at the end of the week. I They write their counting practice out on the back of their fact sheet. The rest I consider to be mastered from the early weeks we spent on it and it shows up on their sheets too. I still do K with my 4 year old (almost 5) but she really isn't a natural learner like my boys have been and still has trouble recognizing numbers even after we've worked on it for 40 something lessons. Plus it gives us some one on one time.

 

I do have another crazy idea for math but I'll share it in another post.....

[JuanitaL]

I started combining in Saxon when my younger 2 were 1st and 3rd. At that time we actually did the biggest part of both lessons all together, over the years it has morphed into both of them doing the same math level. I think they've been working from the same book from 5/4 to (currently) Alg. 2. It started as convenience/sanity for me, it has become a really great thing for all of us. When we go over the day's lesson, problems that are missed by one guy get worked out together with the other guy on the whiteboard.

[stm4him]

That kind of ties into my new idea.....I'll share it now in a new post called One Room Schoolhouse Science

[stm4him]

I mean One Room Schoolhouse Math.....lol (just wrote about science before writing that and got my subjects confused).